What Are the US Goals In Ukraine?

[georgephillip]

U.S./U.K./Ukraine Press Statement on the Budapest Memorandum Meeting

This statement is as close as you are going to get Rabbi.

"The Budapest Memorandum sets out the obligations of signatories in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons. Under its terms, the three parties commit to refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine’s territorial integrity."

Both sides can argue the other have violated the prohibition against the use of force against Ukraine's territorial integrity.

When Neo-Nazi snipers brought the opposition to power by murdering police officers and opposition supporters alike, it's worth asking how much of the $5 billion Victoria Nuland boasted of spending on Ukrainian "democracy" contributed to the use of force against Ukraine's territorial integrity.

U.S./U.K./Ukraine Press Statement on the Budapest Memorandum Meeting

1997 between Russia and Ukraine top off . This is why it beats International law.

And yes you are right that the Banderas brought in the snipers.

From RT

"The snipers who shot at protesters and police in Kiev were allegedly hired by Maidan leaders, according to a leaked phone conversation between the EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign affairs minister, which has emerged online.

“'There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovich, but it was somebody from the new coalition,' Paet said during the conversation.

“'I think we do want to investigate. I mean, I didn’t pick that up, that’s interesting. Gosh,' Ashton answered."

Gosh.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see which side is afraid of a UN investigation.
It's all starting to remind me of Assad, Syria, and Sarin, (again).

 

[Redfish]

The Soviets already have a "Federation" of non Russian counties in their control. Why should we allow them to rebuild the old Soviet Union with countries of the old Soviet Union? Countries enter a military agreement when they enter NATO, they don't become part of a Mother County and give up their sovereignty. Sounds like what happened leading up to WWII, countries making deals about the rights of other countries. We won't give support to a country if the belligerent country agrees (promises) not to change their mind and find an excuse to attack the country that got sold out during the negotiations.

the old soviet union fell apart because it became too big to manage and control. why not let them do it again? there is no US national interest in keeping Ukraine separate from Russia--------------in short, its none of our fricken business.

Those are opinions. Some my think they are short sighted or naive.

OK, then by what authority would we intervene? Who appointed the USA to police the world? What gives us the right to determine the outcome of civil wars?

How would the US be harmed if Crimea and/or eastern Ukraine revert to being part of Russia?

 

[georgephillip]

The Russian propaganda about the snipers is now being used as fact. All based on rumor and first given publicity in the Russian press.

So you're in favor of a UN investigation into who hired the snipers?

"The question unanswered until now is who deployed the snipers? According to veteran US intelligence sources, the snipers came from an ultra-right-wing military organization known as Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian People’s Self-Defense (UNA-UNSO)."

Ukraine: Secretive Neo-Nazi Military Organization Involved in Euromaidan Sniper Shootings | Global Research

 

[Redfish]

The Russian propaganda about the snipers is now being used as fact. All based on rumor and first given publicity in the Russian press.

So you're in favor of a UN investigation into who hired the snipers?

"The question unanswered until now is who deployed the snipers? According to veteran US intelligence sources, the snipers came from an ultra-right-wing military organization known as Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian People’s Self-Defense (UNA-UNSO)."

Ukraine: Secretive Neo-Nazi Military Organization Involved in Euromaidan Sniper Shootings | Global Research

Who cares? let the UN dick around with it. Its none of our business unless they were shooting at americans.

 

[georgephillip]

The Russian propaganda about the snipers is now being used as fact. All based on rumor and first given publicity in the Russian press.

So you're in favor of a UN investigation into who hired the snipers?

"The question unanswered until now is who deployed the snipers? According to veteran US intelligence sources, the snipers came from an ultra-right-wing military organization known as Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian People’s Self-Defense (UNA-UNSO)."

Ukraine: Secretive Neo-Nazi Military Organization Involved in Euromaidan Sniper Shootings | Global Research

Who cares? let the UN dick around with it. Its none of our business unless they were shooting at americans.

It is our business if some of the $5 billion that Victoria Nuland bragged about spending to promote Ukrainian "Democracy" went to pay right-wing snipers who murdered police officers AND anti-government protesters. Based on the bipartisan actions of US Administrations since 1993, Russians feel like Americans are taking shots at them.

 

[Redfish]

So you're in favor of a UN investigation into who hired the snipers?

"The question unanswered until now is who deployed the snipers? According to veteran US intelligence sources, the snipers came from an ultra-right-wing military organization known as Ukrainian National Assembly – Ukrainian People’s Self-Defense (UNA-UNSO)."

Ukraine: Secretive Neo-Nazi Military Organization Involved in Euromaidan Sniper Shootings | Global Research

Who cares? let the UN dick around with it. Its none of our business unless they were shooting at americans.

It is our business if some of the $5 billion that Victoria Nuland bragged about spending to promote Ukrainian "Democracy" went to pay right-wing snipers who murdered police officers AND anti-government protesters. Based on the bipartisan actions of US Administrations since 1993, Russians feel like Americans are taking shots at them.

when we send 'foreign aid' money, thats the risk we take.

our country is 17 trillion in debt, we cannot afford to send money overseas and just HOPE it lands in friendly hands--------its blatant stupidity.

 

[georgephillip]

Who cares? let the UN dick around with it. Its none of our business unless they were shooting at americans.

It is our business if some of the $5 billion that Victoria Nuland bragged about spending to promote Ukrainian "Democracy" went to pay right-wing snipers who murdered police officers AND anti-government protesters. Based on the bipartisan actions of US Administrations since 1993, Russians feel like Americans are taking shots at them.

when we send 'foreign aid' money, thats the risk we take.

our country is 17 trillion in debt, we cannot afford to send money overseas and just HOPE it lands in friendly hands--------its blatant stupidity.

It would be interesting to trace exactly where the $5 billion came from.
Was it borrowed from Wall Street banks fat on QE?
One report I've seen makes the claim that Ukrainian pensions will be cut in half (from $160/month to $80) in order to repay Ukraine's European (IMF?) creditors.
At some point people everywhere need to make the connection between privatized profits and socialized losses

 

[Katzndogz]

There is no 5 billion. It's 5 billion in loan guarantees. That means before we pay any money at all a lender would have to make the loan then Ukraine would have to default.

 

[georgephillip]

There is no 5 billion. It's 5 billion in loan guarantees. That means before we pay any money at all a lender would have to make the loan then Ukraine would have to default.

The lender could be a public or private institution?

 

[The Rabbi]

the old soviet union fell apart because it became too big to manage and control. why not let them do it again? there is no US national interest in keeping Ukraine separate from Russia--------------in short, its none of our fricken business.

Those are opinions. Some my think they are short sighted or naive.

OK, then by what authority would we intervene? Who appointed the USA to police the world? What gives us the right to determine the outcome of civil wars?

How would the US be harmed if Crimea and/or eastern Ukraine revert to being part of Russia?

The Budapest Accord is the basis for action.
The U.S. is harmed by a resurgent Russia seeking to reconstitute the old Soviet Union. Which is in fact the goal.
If we do not resist this kind of tyranny it grows and gets worse.

 

[Art__Allm]

Nothing for you to worry about - the fix is in. A pro-Russian thug has appointed himself (too funny) as prime minister of the Crimean government. The vote count won't be a problem either - they'll make something up but the outcome is assured.

Your argumentation is ridiculous.

The population of the Crimean Peninsula already many times expressed their opinion, and the results of the vote can be predicted according to these maps:

BTW, this last vote took place before the putsch in Kiev and before Russian troops started their humanitarian action on the peninsula.

Why should the Russian population of the Crimean Peninsula (that Peninsula was part of Russia till 1954) vote for people who hate their native Russian language?

Would you vote for some Mexican government in Texas, if Texas was annexed by Mexico, if you were not a Spanish speaker?



90% of Crimean population speaks Russian as their native language, dude!

 

[The Rabbi]

There are lots of Russian speakers in Estonia as well. Will you support Russian annexation of Estonia?

 

[Art__Allm]

The U.S. is harmed by a resurgent Russia seeking to reconstitute the old Soviet Union. Which is in fact the goal.
If we do not resist this kind of tyranny it grows and gets worse.

The opposite is true.

The Soviet Ukraine was a relict of the former SU, because the Russian Crimean Peninsula was given to the Soviet Republic Ukraine by the Soviet leader Khrushchev (who was himself a Ukrainian) in 1954.

Putin is restoring the pre-Soviet status of Russia, returning the Russian Crimean Peninsula to Russia.

 

[Art__Allm]

There are lots of Russian speakers in Estonia as well. Will you support Russian annexation of Estonia?

I do not support any annexation, I am for democracy.

I think that the inhabitants of any region can vote for their future.

BTW, if the population of Kosovo could decide about their future, why should it be different with other regions?

 

[The Rabbi]

There are lots of Russian speakers in Estonia as well. Will you support Russian annexation of Estonia?

I do not support any annexation, I am for democracy.

I think that the inhabitants of any region can vote for their future.

BTW, if the population of Kosovo could decide about their future, why should it be different with other regions?

So if Los Angeles decides to ally itself with Mexico, you're fine with that too. Got it.

 

[Art__Allm]

Who appointed the USA to police the world?

The Israel Lobby?

How would the US be harmed if Crimea and/or eastern Ukraine revert to being part of Russia?

Well, Putin thwarted the strategic plan of Netanyahu, called "Clean break".

A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (commonly known as the "Clean Break" report) is a policy document that was prepared in 1996 by a study group led by Richard Perle for Benjamin Netanyahu, the then Prime Minister of Israel.[1] The report explained a new approach to solving Israel's security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis on "Western values". It has since been criticized for advocating an aggressive new policy including the removal of Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, and the containment of Syria by engaging in proxy warfare and highlighting their possession of "weapons of mass destruction".


...

In 2006 Sidney Blumenthal noted the paper's relevance to potential Israeli bombing of Syria and Iran, writing that "In order to try to understand the neoconservative road map, senior national security professionals have begun circulating among themselves" the Clean Break "neocon manifesto."[9] Soon after "Taki" of The American Conservative wrote that:

recently, Netanyahu suggested that President Bush had assured him Iran will be prevented from going nuclear. I take him at his word. Netanyahu seems to be the main mover in America’s official adoption of the 1996 white paper A Clean Break, authored by him and American fellow neocons, which aimed to aggressively remake the strategic environments of Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran.

As they say in boxing circles, three down, two to go.[10]

A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

USA has to solve the security problems of Israel, and that means bombing into the stone age of all neighbours of Israel, including Iran and Syria.

That is why Putin is the enemy of the Israel Lobby in the USA.

He will be attacked by "proxy warfare", because he prevented the American attack on Syria and Iran.

As simple, as that.

 

[Art__Allm]

So if Los Angeles decides to ally itself with Mexico, you're fine with that too. Got it.

Yes, of course! This is called democracy!

If the majority of the population of Los Angeles votes for being part of Mexico, then this is their right, isn't it?

The population of Kosovo (that was Serbian land) had the opportunity to decide about their future, the example was already set, there is no way back.

Why should the inhabitants of Los Angeles or the Crimean Peninsula not given the rights to vote for their future like it was with the population of Kosovo?

You have a very totalitarian mindset.

BTW, are there already enough Mexicans in Los Angeles, and do these Mexicans really want to be part of Mexico?

The crucial point is that the population of the Crimean Peninsula does not want to be part of Ukraine.

 

[Contumacious]

Those are opinions. Some my think they are short sighted or naive.

OK, then by what authority would we intervene? Who appointed the USA to police the world? What gives us the right to determine the outcome of civil wars?

How would the US be harmed if Crimea and/or eastern Ukraine revert to being part of Russia?

The Budapest Accord is the basis for action.
The U.S. is harmed by a resurgent Russia seeking to reconstitute the old Soviet Union. Which is in fact the goal.
If we do not resist this kind of tyranny it grows and gets worse.

HUH?

BULLSHIT.

BTW, if you and your ilk are ready to resume the cold war then you must start with the communists inside the DC beltway. I fear them a lot more than I do Putin.

.

 

[The Rabbi]

Who appointed the USA to police the world?

The Israel Lobby?

How would the US be harmed if Crimea and/or eastern Ukraine revert to being part of Russia?

Well, Putin thwarted the strategic plan of Netanyahu, called "Clean break".

A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (commonly known as the "Clean Break" report) is a policy document that was prepared in 1996 by a study group led by Richard Perle for Benjamin Netanyahu, the then Prime Minister of Israel.[1] The report explained a new approach to solving Israel's security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis on "Western values". It has since been criticized for advocating an aggressive new policy including the removal of Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, and the containment of Syria by engaging in proxy warfare and highlighting their possession of "weapons of mass destruction".


...

In 2006 Sidney Blumenthal noted the paper's relevance to potential Israeli bombing of Syria and Iran, writing that "In order to try to understand the neoconservative road map, senior national security professionals have begun circulating among themselves" the Clean Break "neocon manifesto."[9] Soon after "Taki" of The American Conservative wrote that:

recently, Netanyahu suggested that President Bush had assured him Iran will be prevented from going nuclear. I take him at his word. Netanyahu seems to be the main mover in America’s official adoption of the 1996 white paper A Clean Break, authored by him and American fellow neocons, which aimed to aggressively remake the strategic environments of Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran.

As they say in boxing circles, three down, two to go.[10]

A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

USA has to solve the security problems of Israel, and that means bombing into the stone age of all neighbours of Israel, including Iran and Syria.

That is why Putin is the enemy of the Israel Lobby in the USA.

He will be attacked by "proxy warfare", because he prevented the American attack on Syria and Iran.

As simple, as that.

OK, so we're dealing with an anti-semite and jewhater. SOrry. I mistook you for a serious poster at first.

 

[Contumacious]

Who appointed the USA to police the world?

The Israel Lobby?



Well, Putin thwarted the strategic plan of Netanyahu, called "Clean break".

A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (commonly known as the "Clean Break" report) is a policy document that was prepared in 1996 by a study group led by Richard Perle for Benjamin Netanyahu, the then Prime Minister of Israel.[1] The report explained a new approach to solving Israel's security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis on "Western values". It has since been criticized for advocating an aggressive new policy including the removal of Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq, and the containment of Syria by engaging in proxy warfare and highlighting their possession of "weapons of mass destruction".


...

In 2006 Sidney Blumenthal noted the paper's relevance to potential Israeli bombing of Syria and Iran, writing that "In order to try to understand the neoconservative road map, senior national security professionals have begun circulating among themselves" the Clean Break "neocon manifesto."[9] Soon after "Taki" of The American Conservative wrote that:

recently, Netanyahu suggested that President Bush had assured him Iran will be prevented from going nuclear. I take him at his word. Netanyahu seems to be the main mover in America’s official adoption of the 1996 white paper A Clean Break, authored by him and American fellow neocons, which aimed to aggressively remake the strategic environments of Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran.

As they say in boxing circles, three down, two to go.[10]

A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

USA has to solve the security problems of Israel, and that means bombing into the stone age of all neighbours of Israel, including Iran and Syria.

That is why Putin is the enemy of the Israel Lobby in the USA.

He will be attacked by "proxy warfare", because he prevented the American attack on Syria and Iran.

As simple, as that.

OK, so we're dealing with an anti-semite and jewhater. SOrry. I mistook you for a serious poster at first.

What did he say that could possibly be construed as an "anti-semite" or jewhater?

.