What Are the US Goals In Ukraine?

[Katzndogz]

If the Russians in Crimea do not want to be part of the Ukraine and want to be part of Russia there is really no way to stop them. The alternative is suppression of a people consistently in revolt. Likely an armed revolt.

 

[The Rabbi]

If the Russians in Crimea do not want to be part of the Ukraine and want to be part of Russia there is really no way to stop them. The alternative is suppression of a people consistently in revolt. Likely an armed revolt.

Except we have never heard of stirrings, protests, unrest or anything else before the Russians invaded. It is too convenient an excuse. It is exactly the excuse Hitler used.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It is our business if some of the $5 billion that Victoria Nuland bragged about spending to promote Ukrainian "Democracy" went to pay right-wing snipers who murdered police officers AND anti-government protesters. Based on the bipartisan actions of US Administrations since 1993, Russians feel like Americans are taking shots at them.

when we send 'foreign aid' money, thats the risk we take.

our country is 17 trillion in debt, we cannot afford to send money overseas and just HOPE it lands in friendly hands--------its blatant stupidity.

It would be interesting to trace exactly where the $5 billion came from.
Was it borrowed from Wall Street banks fat on QE?
One report I've seen makes the claim that Ukrainian pensions will be cut in half (from $160/month to $80) in order to repay Ukraine's European (IMF?) creditors.
At some point people everywhere need to make the connection between privatized profits and socialized losses

yes it would be interesting....notice that Obama only made an announcement for only 1 billion in aid...

Nuland made the claim of 5 billion but the money could have come from the NGOs working there....they had to have used the money in order to bring their pro-EU man to power...which they did...

i smell Soros...

 

[Art__Allm]

What did he say that could possibly be construed as an "anti-semite" or jewhater?

.

If they cannot refute the facts, they just attack the messenger.

How boring and how predictable!

 

[The Rabbi]

What did he say that could possibly be construed as an "anti-semite" or jewhater?

.

If they cannot refute the facts, they just attack the messenger.

How boring and how predictable!

What's predictable is that the Jew conspiracy rears its head here and the lemmings jump right in.

 

[Contumacious]

If the Russians in Crimea do not want to be part of the Ukraine and want to be part of Russia there is really no way to stop them. The alternative is suppression of a people consistently in revolt. Likely an armed revolt.

DC believes in Democracy only if the right entity wins.

In Palestine they refused to recognize Hamas even though the majority elected them to power.

The Crimean majority has no right the scumbags inside the DC beltway have to recognize.

.

 

[georgephillip]

when we send 'foreign aid' money, thats the risk we take.

our country is 17 trillion in debt, we cannot afford to send money overseas and just HOPE it lands in friendly hands--------its blatant stupidity.

It would be interesting to trace exactly where the $5 billion came from.
Was it borrowed from Wall Street banks fat on QE?
One report I've seen makes the claim that Ukrainian pensions will be cut in half (from $160/month to $80) in order to repay Ukraine's European (IMF?) creditors.
At some point people everywhere need to make the connection between privatized profits and socialized losses

yes it would be interesting....notice that Obama only made an announcement for only 1 billion in aid...

Nuland made the claim of 5 billion but the money could have come from the NGOs working there....they had to have used the money in order to bring their pro-EU man to power...which they did...

i smell Soros...

George wants a New Marshall Plan for Ukraine:

"I hope and trust that Europe under German leadership will rise to the occasion. I have been arguing for several years that Germany should accept the responsibilities and liabilities of its dominant position in Europe.

"Today, Ukraine needs a modern-day equivalent of the Marshall Plan, by which the United States helped to reconstruct Europe after World War II.

"Germany ought to play the same role today as the US did then."

Some critics of the original Marshall Plan allege that at the same time billion$ of US tax dollars were rebuilding Europe, rich Europeans were investing their large private fortunes in New York banks.

I suspect George has something similar in mind today.

George Soros On "Sustaining Ukraine's Breakthrough" | Zero Hedge

 

[Art__Allm]

"Germany ought to play the same role today as the US did then."

With other words, the Ukraine will be another big Greece, the Wall-street Bankster will lend money to the criminal oligarchs in the Ukraine, and the German taxpayers will have to pay the money back to the banks.

That will be another big scam a la Greece.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It would be interesting to trace exactly where the $5 billion came from.
Was it borrowed from Wall Street banks fat on QE?
One report I've seen makes the claim that Ukrainian pensions will be cut in half (from $160/month to $80) in order to repay Ukraine's European (IMF?) creditors.
At some point people everywhere need to make the connection between privatized profits and socialized losses

yes it would be interesting....notice that Obama only made an announcement for only 1 billion in aid...

Nuland made the claim of 5 billion but the money could have come from the NGOs working there....they had to have used the money in order to bring their pro-EU man to power...which they did...

i smell Soros...

George wants a New Marshall Plan for Ukraine:

"I hope and trust that Europe under German leadership will rise to the occasion. I have been arguing for several years that Germany should accept the responsibilities and liabilities of its dominant position in Europe.

"Today, Ukraine needs a modern-day equivalent of the Marshall Plan, by which the United States helped to reconstruct Europe after World War II.

"Germany ought to play the same role today as the US did then."

Some critics of the original Marshall Plan allege that at the same time billion$ of US tax dollars were rebuilding Europe, rich Europeans were investing their large private fortunes in New York banks.

I suspect George has something similar in mind today.

George Soros On "Sustaining Ukraine's Breakthrough" | Zero Hedge

Rebuilding Ukraine would be a very costly proposition....is that something Germany wants to do while caught in the middle being dependent on Russian oil....?

and will IMF loans really do any good if Ukraine remains corrupt....? how will corruption in Ukraine be dealt with....?

 

[g5000]

I say we send in Pat Schroeder with an M-16.

A rep to the first person who gets the reference, even if I hate your guts.

I say you shut the fuck up since you obviously can't answer the question and are spewing your usual ignorant bawk.

So that's one person who has no clue.

Anyone else?

 

[georgephillip]

yes it would be interesting....notice that Obama only made an announcement for only 1 billion in aid...

Nuland made the claim of 5 billion but the money could have come from the NGOs working there....they had to have used the money in order to bring their pro-EU man to power...which they did...

i smell Soros...

George wants a New Marshall Plan for Ukraine:

"I hope and trust that Europe under German leadership will rise to the occasion. I have been arguing for several years that Germany should accept the responsibilities and liabilities of its dominant position in Europe.

"Today, Ukraine needs a modern-day equivalent of the Marshall Plan, by which the United States helped to reconstruct Europe after World War II.

"Germany ought to play the same role today as the US did then."

Some critics of the original Marshall Plan allege that at the same time billion$ of US tax dollars were rebuilding Europe, rich Europeans were investing their large private fortunes in New York banks.

I suspect George has something similar in mind today.

George Soros On "Sustaining Ukraine's Breakthrough" | Zero Hedge

Rebuilding Ukraine would be a very costly proposition....is that something Germany wants to do while caught in the middle being dependent on Russian oil....?

and will IMF loans really do any good if Ukraine remains corrupt....? how will corruption in Ukraine be dealt with....?

I think "looting" instead of "rebuilding" Ukraine is more likely to occur, and it seems to involve political players from John McCain to George Soros to Pierre Omidyar:

"In late 2004, protests erupted after Viktor Yanukovych won the 2004 Ukrainian Presidential election, with protestors claiming that the vote had been rigged. The protests forced a revote, in which Yanukovych’s rival, Viktor Yuschenko, was elected president.

"This movement, dubbed the Orange Revolution for the orange ribbons and clothing sported by its members, was one of a series of so-called colour revolutions which swept the former Soviet Republics in the last decade.

"The two events are not unrelated. As The Guardian noted at the time of the protests:

“'[...]the campaign [Orange Revolution] is an American creation, a sophisticated and brilliantly conceived exercise in western branding and mass marketing that, in four countries in four years, has been used to try to salvage rigged elections and topple unsavoury regimes.[...]

"'The Democratic parrty’s National Democratic Institute, the Republican party’s International Republican Institute, the US state department and USAid are the main agencies involved in these grassroots campaigns as well as the Freedom House NGO and billionaire George Soros’s open society institute.'”

McCain appeared at a rally with the leader of Ukraine's Svoboda Party in spite of the party's pro-Nazi past, and, most surprising (for me) the co-founder of Ebay's been linked to funding Ukraine's opposition"

"In the latest startling revelation, Pando.com has published documents implicating the Omidyar Network in the funding of the current Ukrainian protest movement.

"The Omidyar Network is the NGO of billionaire Ebay co-founder Pierre Omidyar, who recently set up 'First Look' as an outlet for (among others) Glenn Greenwald, Jeremy Scahill and Laura Poitras to selectively publish some of the Snowden document archive, 99% of which continues to be withheld from the public.

"As geopolitical analysts from across the board explain, the Ukrainian coup has been deliberately provoked by outside agents to promote a combination of US, EU, NATO and IMF interests."

Target: Ukraine ? How Foreign Intervention is Tearing the Country Apart | Global Research

 

[georgephillip]

"Germany ought to play the same role today as the US did then."

With other words, the Ukraine will be another big Greece, the Wall-street Bankster will lend money to the criminal oligarchs in the Ukraine, and the German taxpayers will have to pay the money back to the banks.

That will be another big scam a la Greece.

What's happening in Ukraine today and Greece yesterday is part of the global financial wealth extraction enterprise originating on Wall Street. IMHO, when the global economic system next collapses(likely within five years) it will be global taxpayers and those citizens with savings accounts holding $100,000 or more who will bail out the banksters who profit from multiple world wide privatization scams.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

George wants a New Marshall Plan for Ukraine:

"I hope and trust that Europe under German leadership will rise to the occasion. I have been arguing for several years that Germany should accept the responsibilities and liabilities of its dominant position in Europe.

"Today, Ukraine needs a modern-day equivalent of the Marshall Plan, by which the United States helped to reconstruct Europe after World War II.

"Germany ought to play the same role today as the US did then."

Some critics of the original Marshall Plan allege that at the same time billion$ of US tax dollars were rebuilding Europe, rich Europeans were investing their large private fortunes in New York banks.

I suspect George has something similar in mind today.

George Soros On "Sustaining Ukraine's Breakthrough" | Zero Hedge

Rebuilding Ukraine would be a very costly proposition....is that something Germany wants to do while caught in the middle being dependent on Russian oil....?

and will IMF loans really do any good if Ukraine remains corrupt....? how will corruption in Ukraine be dealt with....?

I think "looting" instead of "rebuilding" Ukraine is more likely to occur, and it seems to involve political players from John McCain to George Soros to Pierre Omidyar:

"In late 2004, protests erupted after Viktor Yanukovych won the 2004 Ukrainian Presidential election, with protestors claiming that the vote had been rigged. The protests forced a revote, in which Yanukovych’s rival, Viktor Yuschenko, was elected president.

"This movement, dubbed the Orange Revolution for the orange ribbons and clothing sported by its members, was one of a series of so-called colour revolutions which swept the former Soviet Republics in the last decade.

"The two events are not unrelated. As The Guardian noted at the time of the protests:

“'[...]the campaign [Orange Revolution] is an American creation, a sophisticated and brilliantly conceived exercise in western branding and mass marketing that, in four countries in four years, has been used to try to salvage rigged elections and topple unsavoury regimes.[...]

"'The Democratic parrty’s National Democratic Institute, the Republican party’s International Republican Institute, the US state department and USAid are the main agencies involved in these grassroots campaigns as well as the Freedom House NGO and billionaire George Soros’s open society institute.'”

McCain appeared at a rally with the leader of Ukraine's Svoboda Party in spite of the party's pro-Nazi past, and, most surprising (for me) the co-founder of Ebay's been linked to funding Ukraine's opposition"

"In the latest startling revelation, Pando.com has published documents implicating the Omidyar Network in the funding of the current Ukrainian protest movement.

"The Omidyar Network is the NGO of billionaire Ebay co-founder Pierre Omidyar, who recently set up 'First Look' as an outlet for (among others) Glenn Greenwald, Jeremy Scahill and Laura Poitras to selectively publish some of the Snowden document archive, 99% of which continues to be withheld from the public.

"As geopolitical analysts from across the board explain, the Ukrainian coup has been deliberately provoked by outside agents to promote a combination of US, EU, NATO and IMF interests."

Target: Ukraine ? How Foreign Intervention is Tearing the Country Apart | Global Research

basically they're saying Ukraine is a U.S. coup d'etat....and a very reckless one.....

you sure won't find this discussed in the lamestream media....

 

[ScreamingEagle]

"Germany ought to play the same role today as the US did then."

With other words, the Ukraine will be another big Greece, the Wall-street Bankster will lend money to the criminal oligarchs in the Ukraine, and the German taxpayers will have to pay the money back to the banks.

That will be another big scam a la Greece.

What's happening in Ukraine today and Greece yesterday is part of the global financial wealth extraction enterprise originating on Wall Street. IMHO, when the global economic system next collapses(likely within five years) it will be global taxpayers and those citizens with savings accounts holding $100,000 or more who will bail out the banksters who profit from multiple world wide privatization scams.

who do they define as 'global taxpayers'......?

 

[georgephillip]

With other words, the Ukraine will be another big Greece, the Wall-street Bankster will lend money to the criminal oligarchs in the Ukraine, and the German taxpayers will have to pay the money back to the banks.

That will be another big scam a la Greece.

What's happening in Ukraine today and Greece yesterday is part of the global financial wealth extraction enterprise originating on Wall Street. IMHO, when the global economic system next collapses(likely within five years) it will be global taxpayers and those citizens with savings accounts holding $100,000 or more who will bail out the banksters who profit from multiple world wide privatization scams.

who do they define as 'global taxpayers'......?

"Global taxpayer" probably wasn't the best description of what I'm trying to suggest.
Namely, taxpayers around the globe who possess a vote won't be nearly as willing to bail out banksters as they were in 2008.
Based on the recent experience in Cyprus, elected representatives in governments around the world may tap individual bank accounts in order to cover the losses of banks that were too big to fail in 2008 and have since grown ever larger:

"Stumbling Toward the Next Crash
By GORDON BROWN
Published: December 18, 2013 30 Comments

"LONDON — In early October 2008, three weeks after the Lehman Brothers collapse, I met in Paris with leaders of the countries in the euro zone.

"Oblivious to the global dimension of the financial crisis, they took the view that if there was fallout for Europe, America would be to blame — so it would be for America to fix.

"I was unable to convince them that half of the bundled subprime-mortgage securities that were about to blow up had landed in Europe and that euro-area banks were, in fact, more highly leveraged than America’s..."

"The economist David Miles, who sits on the monetary policy committee of the Bank of England, may exaggerate when he forecasts financial crises every seven years, but most of the problems that caused the 2008 crisis — excessive borrowing, shadow banking and reckless lending — have not gone away.

"Too-big-to-fail banks have not shrunk; they’ve grown bigger.

"Huge bonuses that encourage reckless risk-taking by bankers remain the norm.

"Meanwhile, shadow banking — investment and lending services by financial institutions that act like banks, but with less supervision — has expanded in value to $71 trillion, from $59 trillion in 2008."

When, not if, the next Crash occurs, those responsible will depend on elected Democrats AND Republicans alike to socialize the loss just as they did in 2008 even if US taxpayers aren't frightened by the prospect of "Martial Law."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/opinion/gordon-brown-stumbling-toward-the-next-crash.html?_r=0

 

[georgephillip]

Rebuilding Ukraine would be a very costly proposition....is that something Germany wants to do while caught in the middle being dependent on Russian oil....?

and will IMF loans really do any good if Ukraine remains corrupt....? how will corruption in Ukraine be dealt with....?

I think "looting" instead of "rebuilding" Ukraine is more likely to occur, and it seems to involve political players from John McCain to George Soros to Pierre Omidyar:

"In late 2004, protests erupted after Viktor Yanukovych won the 2004 Ukrainian Presidential election, with protestors claiming that the vote had been rigged. The protests forced a revote, in which Yanukovych’s rival, Viktor Yuschenko, was elected president.

"This movement, dubbed the Orange Revolution for the orange ribbons and clothing sported by its members, was one of a series of so-called colour revolutions which swept the former Soviet Republics in the last decade.

"The two events are not unrelated. As The Guardian noted at the time of the protests:

“'[...]the campaign [Orange Revolution] is an American creation, a sophisticated and brilliantly conceived exercise in western branding and mass marketing that, in four countries in four years, has been used to try to salvage rigged elections and topple unsavoury regimes.[...]

"'The Democratic parrty’s National Democratic Institute, the Republican party’s International Republican Institute, the US state department and USAid are the main agencies involved in these grassroots campaigns as well as the Freedom House NGO and billionaire George Soros’s open society institute.'”

McCain appeared at a rally with the leader of Ukraine's Svoboda Party in spite of the party's pro-Nazi past, and, most surprising (for me) the co-founder of Ebay's been linked to funding Ukraine's opposition"

"In the latest startling revelation, Pando.com has published documents implicating the Omidyar Network in the funding of the current Ukrainian protest movement.

"The Omidyar Network is the NGO of billionaire Ebay co-founder Pierre Omidyar, who recently set up 'First Look' as an outlet for (among others) Glenn Greenwald, Jeremy Scahill and Laura Poitras to selectively publish some of the Snowden document archive, 99% of which continues to be withheld from the public.

"As geopolitical analysts from across the board explain, the Ukrainian coup has been deliberately provoked by outside agents to promote a combination of US, EU, NATO and IMF interests."

Target: Ukraine ? How Foreign Intervention is Tearing the Country Apart | Global Research

basically they're saying Ukraine is a U.S. coup d'etat....and a very reckless one.....

you sure won't find this discussed in the lamestream media....

That's for sure.
Something else that isn't likely to be discussed in the corporate press is how the US appears to be targeting Russia's natural resources; at the very least, it certainly appears that way to Russian nationalists, and it may have started during the Bolshevik Revolution:

"President Woodrow Wilson was the fairy godmother, who provided Trotsky with a passport to return to Russia to 'carry forward' the revolution... At the same time careful State Department bureaucrats, concerned about such revolutionaries entering Russia, were unilaterally attempting to tighten up passport procedures. (Antony C. Sutton, Ph. D.: Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution, published by Arlington House in New Rochelle, NY, 1974, p. 25)

"And there were others, as well. In 1911 the St. Louis Dispatch published a cartoon by a Bolshevik named Robert Minor. Minor was later to be arrested in Tsarist Russia for revolutionary activities and in fact was himself bankrolled by famous Wall Street financiers.

"Since we may safely assume, that he knew his topic well, his cartoon is of great historical importance. It portrays Karl Marx with a book entitled Socialism under his arm, standing amid a cheering crowd on Wall Street.

"Gathered around and greeting him with enthusiastic handshakes are characters in silk hats identified as John D. Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan, John D. Ryan of National City Bank, Morgan partner George W. Perkins and Teddy Roosevelt, leader of the Progressive Party."

Who financed Lenin and Trotsky?

Russia's the largest country on the planet with a rich storehouse of untapped natural resources. It's possible the oligarchs that Obama and Putin serve decided long ago how the wealth produced from those resources should be divided up.

 

[Old Rocks]

Probably to avoid shedding American blood in a war we can't win.

Mission (almost) accomplished if so.

You are a Lo-Lo. We all know that.

But perhaps even you, on your knees constantly to Obama's large Negro penis, can articulate what the adminsitration's stated objectives are in this matter.
This isn't a thread to bash the administration, necessarily. It is a request for info. I have not seen the administration lay out its goals in these negotiations. Maybe someone else following it more closely has. So what are they?

Real classy reply, you slob of an asshole.

There is no way we can realistically wrest Crimea from Russia now. Not without WW3. The goal should be to make this painful enough for Russian interests to prevent any further attempts at the re-establishment of the old Russian and Soviet Empire.

 

[The Rabbi]

Probably to avoid shedding American blood in a war we can't win.

Mission (almost) accomplished if so.

You are a Lo-Lo. We all know that.

But perhaps even you, on your knees constantly to Obama's large Negro penis, can articulate what the adminsitration's stated objectives are in this matter.
This isn't a thread to bash the administration, necessarily. It is a request for info. I have not seen the administration lay out its goals in these negotiations. Maybe someone else following it more closely has. So what are they?

Real classy reply, you slob of an asshole.

There is no way we can realistically wrest Crimea from Russia now. Not without WW3. The goal should be to make this painful enough for Russian interests to prevent any further attempts at the re-establishment of the old Russian and Soviet Empire.

You are an idiot about 5 times over.
For starters the thread asked a factual question: what are the stated US goals here. It took pages for one poster to dig up an obscure release from the State Dept that addressed that issue. You didnt even get that far.
Second, giving up before you've begun to fight really played well just before WW2. Maybe we should start learning Russian to please our new overlords.

 

[Art__Allm]

Second, giving up before you've begun to fight really played well just before WW2. Maybe we should start learning Russian to please our new overlords.

Are you eager to start WWIII?
Is warmongering not prohibited by law?

 

[The Rabbi]

Second, giving up before you've begun to fight really played well just before WW2. Maybe we should start learning Russian to please our new overlords.

Are you eager to start WWIII?
Is warmongering not prohibited by law?

Learn some history, you jew-hating bastard.
Weakness starts wars. Strength prevents them.