What Are the US Goals In Ukraine?

[elektra]

What are the USA's goals in the Ukraine and Crimea, to end the era of the United States of America.

 

[R.C. Christian]

The Ukraine should have never given up their nukes. By that standard, using the former Soviet Union as their judge, having given that up, they deserve to be overrun by jackboots. Never trust a Russian dog.

 

[Art__Allm]

Learn some history, you jew-hating bastard.

Are personal attacks not against the rules of this forum?

BTW, nobody hates ALL Jews, and nobody is obliged to love all Jews.

Why should somebody love people that hate him?

Calling somebody a hater and a bastard is projecting their own hate on his opponents.

Weakness starts wars. Strength prevents them.

Banksters start wars, because they profit from wars.

This picture shows who is responsible for the present situation.

 

[High_Gravity]

The Ukraine should have never given up their nukes. By that standard, using the former Soviet Union as their judge, having given that up, they deserve to be overrun by jackboots. Never trust a Russian dog.

Hard core bro.

 

[The Rabbi]

Learn some history, you jew-hating bastard.

Are personal attacks not against the rules of this forum?

BTW, nobody hates ALL Jews, and nobody is obliged to love all Jews.

Why should somebody love people that hate him?

Calling somebody a hater and a bastard is projecting their own hate on his opponents.

Weakness starts wars. Strength prevents them.

Banksters start wars, because they profit from wars.


[/img]

This picture shows who is responsible for the present situation.

No it is not. Go read forum rules sometime.

It is not projecting. It is the truth. You slander Da Joos and claim there is some international Zionist plot or some conspiracy crap like that.
ANd I see you are retailing Soviet Cold War propaganda with that absurd map. How many countries did the Soviet Union invade, destablizie, or make clients?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It appears one of the Administration's goals is to use the Ukraine crisis to reform the IMF rules....maybe someone here can explain what this is really all about....it seems Republicans are against it because it may affect taxpayers....Boehner says it has nothing to do with Ukraine...

Secretary of State John Kerry urged Congress to approve reforms to the International Monetary Fund that the administration says is a critical component of aid to Ukraine but is running into opposition from some Republicans.

“We must have IMF reform, we must have the quota,” Kerry told a Senate appropriations subcommittee Thursday. “It would be a terrible message to Ukraine for everybody to be standing up talking, appropriately, about what’s at stake and not to be able to follow through.”

A bill heading to the Senate floor gives congressional approval to a 2010 IMF decision that reconfigures the amount of money the United States and other countries contribute to the organization. But many Republicans worry the move could expose taxpayers to risk and say it’s unrelated to the crisis in Ukraine. The GOP-controlled House passed a Ukraine measure last week that didn’t include the IMF provision.

“The IMF money has nothing to do with Ukraine,” Speaker John Boehner said Thursday. “I understand the administration wants the IMF money but it has nothing at all to do with Ukraine. So let’s just understand what the facts are here.”



Read more: John Kerry: Include IMF changes in Ukraine package - Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com

 

[Art__Allm]

It appears one of the Administration's goals is to use the Ukraine crisis to reform the IMF rules....maybe someone here can explain what this is really all about....it seems Republicans are against it because it may affect taxpayers....Boehner says it has nothing to do with Ukraine...

There is a good German saying:

Geld regiert die Welt! (Money rules the world).

The politicians we elect are just puppets of the financial powers that remain behind the scenes.

In this picture they ask: Who rules the money?

Who rules the money, rules the world, as simple as that.

Follow the money and you will find out Cui Bono.


People who "ruled the money" were the really winners and profiteers of WWI and WWII, and the same people are eager to start WWIII.

If the "rulers of the money" were 100% sure that they themselves will get away with another big war (like it was during WWII and WWII) they would not hesitate and start another big war.

But Russia is a nuclear power, and anybody with half a brain can understand that there will be no winners after the nuclear Armageddon.

That is why the "rulers of the money" get so nervous, they know that they are in a no-win-situation, that time is not working for them, and that they cannot be the Tsars of the world any more.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

It appears one of the Administration's goals is to use the Ukraine crisis to reform the IMF rules....maybe someone here can explain what this is really all about....it seems Republicans are against it because it may affect taxpayers....Boehner says it has nothing to do with Ukraine...

There is a good German saying:

Geld regiert die Welt! (Money rules the world).

The politicians we elect are just puppets of the financial powers that remain behind the scenes.

In this picture they ask: Who rules the money?

Who rules the money, rules the world, as simple as that.

Follow the money and you will find out Cui Bono.


People who "ruled the money" were the really winners and profiteers of WWI and WWII, and the same people are eager to start WWIII.

If the "rulers of the money" were 100% sure that they themselves will get away with another big war (like it was during WWII and WWII) they would not hesitate and start another big war.

But Russia is a nuclear power, and anybody with half a brain can understand that there will be no winners after the nuclear Armageddon.

That is why the "rulers of the money" get so nervous, they know that they are in a no-win-situation, that time is not working for them, and that they cannot be the Tsars of the world any more.

right we know Obama is a Soros/corporate puppet....and expanding the IMF umbrella certainly seems to be one of the methods for global control....but like you say perhaps they've stepped in it this time...

but how would changing the IMF rules as Kerry wishes specifically affect U.S. taxpayers....?

 

[R.C. Christian]

The Ukraine should have never given up their nukes. By that standard, using the former Soviet Union as their judge, having given that up, they deserve to be overrun by jackboots. Never trust a Russian dog.

Hard core bro.

Well, it should be mentioned that U.S. fucking around with Ukraine beforehand didn't exactly give the Russian dogs warm and fuzzy feelings. Still, this is F'd. They are out of line and there isn't a whole lot we can do about it.

 

[The T]

The Ukraine should have never given up their nukes. By that standard, using the former Soviet Union as their judge, having given that up, they deserve to be overrun by jackboots. Never trust a Russian dog.

Hard core bro.

Well, it should be mentioned that U.S. fucking around with Ukraine beforehand didn't exactly give the Russian dogs warm and fuzzy feelings. Still, this is F'd. They are out of line and there isn't a whole lot we can do about it.

And nor should we. This is in the backyard of the friggin' EU. Let them deal with the fucking Commie Russians for awhile.

 

[georgephillip]

The Ukraine should have never given up their nukes. By that standard, using the former Soviet Union as their judge, having given that up, they deserve to be overrun by jackboots. Never trust a Russian dog.

Or NATO invitation:

"The move by NATO to extend the alliance to the Russian border is a controversial one that violates the spirit, if not the letter, of a February 1990 agreement between then Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, U.S. Secretary of State James Baker, and Chancellor Helmut Kohl of Germany.

"The issue at the time was Germany and NATO. Under the treaty ending World War II, the Soviets had a right to keep troops in Eastern Germany.

"The U.S. and the Germans were trying to negotiate a reunion of the two Germanys that would remove the 380,000 Soviet troops in the East, while maintaining U.S. and NATO forces in the West.

"The Russians were willing to exit their troops, but only if U.S. and NATO forces did not fill the vacuum.

"On Feb. 9, Gorbachev told Baker 'any extension of the zone of NATO would be unacceptable.'

"Baker assured him that 'NATO’s jurisdiction would not shift one inch eastward.'”

WikiLeaks, Ukraine and NATO » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Ukraine's between Russia and a Hard Place (NATO).
Shouldn't NATO have disappeared at the same time as the USSR?

 

[georgephillip]

It appears one of the Administration's goals is to use the Ukraine crisis to reform the IMF rules....maybe someone here can explain what this is really all about....it seems Republicans are against it because it may affect taxpayers....Boehner says it has nothing to do with Ukraine...

Secretary of State John Kerry urged Congress to approve reforms to the International Monetary Fund that the administration says is a critical component of aid to Ukraine but is running into opposition from some Republicans.

“We must have IMF reform, we must have the quota,” Kerry told a Senate appropriations subcommittee Thursday. “It would be a terrible message to Ukraine for everybody to be standing up talking, appropriately, about what’s at stake and not to be able to follow through.”

A bill heading to the Senate floor gives congressional approval to a 2010 IMF decision that reconfigures the amount of money the United States and other countries contribute to the organization. But many Republicans worry the move could expose taxpayers to risk and say it’s unrelated to the crisis in Ukraine. The GOP-controlled House passed a Ukraine measure last week that didn’t include the IMF provision.

“The IMF money has nothing to do with Ukraine,” Speaker John Boehner said Thursday. “I understand the administration wants the IMF money but it has nothing at all to do with Ukraine. So let’s just understand what the facts are here.”



Read more: John Kerry: Include IMF changes in Ukraine package - Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com

"Some congressional Republicans are concerned that taxpayer dollars could be at a greater risk under the changes, however. Some Republicans on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee tried to get rid of the provision during a Wednesday markup, but were defeated by Democrats and a few Republicans."

John Kerry: Include IMF changes in Ukraine package - Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com

It's always possible that "loan guarantees" from the IMF which are structured to increase the wealth of oligarchs in the US, EU, and Ukraine will ultimately fall on taxpayers in the US and elsewhere while cutting pensions in Ukraine from about $160/month to $80.

That's how IMF/Washington Consensus "structural adjustments" have performed over the past 70 years.

A question more westerners should be asking is how many Ukraines are there?

The following is a short (1-2 page) interview with Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn on Ukraine reprinted from a 1994 issue of Forbes Magazine:

"I myself am nearly half Ukrainian. I grew up with the sounds of Ukrainian speech. I love her culture and genuinely wish all kinds of success for Ukraine–but only within her real ethnic boundaries, without grabbing Russian provinces."

An Interview With Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn on Ukraine » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[Andylusion]

The Ukraine should have never given up their nukes. By that standard, using the former Soviet Union as their judge, having given that up, they deserve to be overrun by jackboots. Never trust a Russian dog.

Or NATO invitation:

"The move by NATO to extend the alliance to the Russian border is a controversial one that violates the spirit, if not the letter, of a February 1990 agreement between then Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, U.S. Secretary of State James Baker, and Chancellor Helmut Kohl of Germany.

"The issue at the time was Germany and NATO. Under the treaty ending World War II, the Soviets had a right to keep troops in Eastern Germany.

"The U.S. and the Germans were trying to negotiate a reunion of the two Germanys that would remove the 380,000 Soviet troops in the East, while maintaining U.S. and NATO forces in the West.

"The Russians were willing to exit their troops, but only if U.S. and NATO forces did not fill the vacuum.

"On Feb. 9, Gorbachev told Baker 'any extension of the zone of NATO would be unacceptable.'

"Baker assured him that 'NATO’s jurisdiction would not shift one inch eastward.'”

WikiLeaks, Ukraine and NATO » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Ukraine's between Russia and a Hard Place (NATO).
Shouldn't NATO have disappeared at the same time as the USSR?

Anything that refers to a non-existent country, is irrelevant to me. The soviets do not exist. Violating an agreement with a country that does not exist, is not a violation of anything.

Years ago I signed a non-compete agreement with a company called DEX. They folded up, went bankrupt, and no longer exist. I went to work for a competitor. No one complained, nor should they have. The person I signed an agreement with, didn't exist anymore, thus the agreement didn't exist either.

That said, I am completely against entangling military alliances. We shouldn't be signing up to defend the Ukraine or anywhere else. By all means, lets sell them whatever weapons they want.

But we have no business, saying that we'll join any war they spark off. Didn't we learn that in WW1? Even WW2?

When we tell people "we'll be there for you", that just gives them the arrogance to spark off a war, and at the same time, allows them to ignore funding their own defense, thus making them even more reliant on us.

No, we should tell them they need to deal with their own problems, just as we should have said in Libya. We have no business there. Let them handle it. I don't want dragged into a Ukraine civil war. I love those people, and we should offer visa to them to come to the US, but we're should not be involved there. Period.

 

[georgephillip]

"Did the United States betray Russia at the dawn of the post-cold war era? The short answer is no. Nothing legally binding emerged from the negotiations over German unification. In fact, in September 1990, an embattled Mr. Gorbachev signed the accords that allowed NATO to extend itself over the former East Germany in exchange for financial assistance from Bonn to Moscow. A longer answer, however, shows that there were mixed messages and diplomatic ambiguities."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/30/opinion/30sarotte.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

An ever longer answer includes the possibility of a "Masquerade in Moscow" nearly one century ago:

"The Bolshevik revolution was not a spontaneous uprising of the masses. It was planned, financed, and orchestrated by outsiders. Some of the financing came from Germany which hoped that internal problems would force Russia out of the war against her. But most of the money and leadership came from financiers in England and the United States. It was the perfect example of the Rothschild formula in action."

 

[Darkwind]

This is actually a serious question. Based on statements by the administration, what are our stated goals in dealing with the Russians on the Ukraine issue?

I ask because I havent heard one yet. And if the administration cannot articulate its goals, it cannot achieve them.

Good question............................. I think that we should let Russia and Ukraine handle their own business. I would encourage diplomacy, I wouldn't give Ukraine any money to pay off their debt to Russia, they should work that out themselves. We have Our own house to clean up, we have Our own financial house to clean up, we still have our military deployed and we need to bring them home to rest for a while. All of that "cowboy diplomacy" shit is for the birds and I don't think that the current Administration should be acting that way as well.

I disagree with the whole 'cowboy diplomacy' bumper sticker rhetoric...but for the rest...I agree..

Let Europe deal with it.

 

[1776]

Of course a socialist sack of shit like you shows a map inflating the "pro-Russian" part of Ukraine which is really about 1/4 of your bogus area.

Now compare Ukraine to the size of Russia.....yeah, it is so unfair Russia doesn't get to own half of Ukraine. Hell.....maybe Russia wants Alaska too....

It appears one of the Administration's goals is to use the Ukraine crisis to reform the IMF rules....maybe someone here can explain what this is really all about....it seems Republicans are against it because it may affect taxpayers....Boehner says it has nothing to do with Ukraine...

Secretary of State John Kerry urged Congress to approve reforms to the International Monetary Fund that the administration says is a critical component of aid to Ukraine but is running into opposition from some Republicans.

“We must have IMF reform, we must have the quota,” Kerry told a Senate appropriations subcommittee Thursday. “It would be a terrible message to Ukraine for everybody to be standing up talking, appropriately, about what’s at stake and not to be able to follow through.”

A bill heading to the Senate floor gives congressional approval to a 2010 IMF decision that reconfigures the amount of money the United States and other countries contribute to the organization. But many Republicans worry the move could expose taxpayers to risk and say it’s unrelated to the crisis in Ukraine. The GOP-controlled House passed a Ukraine measure last week that didn’t include the IMF provision.

“The IMF money has nothing to do with Ukraine,” Speaker John Boehner said Thursday. “I understand the administration wants the IMF money but it has nothing at all to do with Ukraine. So let’s just understand what the facts are here.”



Read more: John Kerry: Include IMF changes in Ukraine package - Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com

"Some congressional Republicans are concerned that taxpayer dollars could be at a greater risk under the changes, however. Some Republicans on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee tried to get rid of the provision during a Wednesday markup, but were defeated by Democrats and a few Republicans."

John Kerry: Include IMF changes in Ukraine package - Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com

It's always possible that "loan guarantees" from the IMF which are structured to increase the wealth of oligarchs in the US, EU, and Ukraine will ultimately fall on taxpayers in the US and elsewhere while cutting pensions in Ukraine from about $160/month to $80.

That's how IMF/Washington Consensus "structural adjustments" have performed over the past 70 years.

A question more westerners should be asking is how many Ukraines are there?

The following is a short (1-2 page) interview with Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn on Ukraine reprinted from a 1994 issue of Forbes Magazine:

"I myself am nearly half Ukrainian. I grew up with the sounds of Ukrainian speech. I love her culture and genuinely wish all kinds of success for Ukraine–but only within her real ethnic boundaries, without grabbing Russian provinces."

An Interview With Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn on Ukraine » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[boedicca]

The only real goals for the U.S. (government) in the Ukraine is to manage the PR to protect Obama's "legacy".

Good luck with that.

 

[Andylusion]

I think a bigger problem in my book, is the supposed (to me yet unproven) claims that the CIA was pushing terrorist attacks against Russian troops. I'm completely against that crap, just as was appalled we were doing it in the 80s in Afghanistan.

We should absolutely not be doing that. I still can't verify the claims, but if at all true, we need to stop the CIA.

 

[1776]

Our goals in Ukraine:

1) Russia give Crimea back to Ukraine. (likely not going to happen now)
2) Russia stay out of the rest of Ukraine. (pending on this next 1-2 weeks.)
3) Ukraine turn away from Russia and align with the EU.
4) Ukraine build up their military to prevent this from happening in the future.
5) Ukraine build an alliance against Russia with their neighbors like Estonia, Georgia, Lativa, etc because NATO membership might be too much for Russia not to attack.

 

[georgephillip]

Our goals in Ukraine:

1) Russia give Crimea back to Ukraine. (likely not going to happen now)
2) Russia stay out of the rest of Ukraine. (pending on this next 1-2 weeks.)
3) Ukraine turn away from Russia and align with the EU.
4) Ukraine build up their military to prevent this from happening in the future.
5) Ukraine build an alliance against Russia with their neighbors like Estonia, Georgia, Lativa, etc because NATO membership might be too much for Russia not to attack.

Our (real) goals in Ukraine:

"Is the Russian occupation of the Crimea a case of aggressive expansionism by Moscow or aimed at at blocking a scheme by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) to roll right up to the Russia’s western border?

"WikiLeaks has revealed a secret cable describing a meeting between French and American diplomats that suggests the latter, a plan that has been in the works since at least 2009.

"Titled 'A/S Gordon’s meeting with policy makers in Paris,' the cable summarizes a Sept. 16, 2009 get-together between Philip Gordon, then assistant U.S. Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, and French diplomats Jean-David Levitte, Damien Loras, and Francois Richier.

"Gordon is currently a special assistant to President Obama on the Middle East."

WikiLeaks, Ukraine and NATO » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names