What did our founders really mean when they said “general welfare”?

[rightwinger]

Thomas Jefferson said it best

 

[rightwinger]

Evidently not

The Supremacy Clause says the federal government can tell you how to live.

Constitutional Law professors all across the country are banging their heads against the wall.

Fraid not Skippy

The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution establishes that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to it, and treaties made under its authority, constitute the supreme law of the land. ... Even state constitutions are subordinate to federal law.

Federal powers are also few and defined or enumerated. The remainder are reserved to the states.

You have completly rendered the 9th and 10th Amendments meaningless.

Skippy.

.

They have been placed where they belong...subservient to a powerful central government

Wrong.

Fraid not Finger Boy

 

[DGS49]

The opposite of "strict constructionist" (or "originalist") is a believer in a "living Constitution."

"General welfare" is not a term of art in the Constitution. That is to say, it does not have a specific meaning.

Most importantly, in Section 8 of Article I, the meaning of "general welfare" is comprehensively defined in the specific powers articulated in that section. As a practical and Constitutional matter, Congress has NO POWERS other than those specifically articulated in Section 8.

This is why, when the "mandate" of the Affordable Care Act was challenged on Constitutional grounds (Congrsss manifestly has NO power to demand that anyone purchase health insurance), the only way the mandate could be upheld was to pretend that the fine was actually a tax. And Congress clearly does have the power to lay and collect taxes.

 

[Bush92]

Do you bow to your masters..........LOL

Was never the intent of the Founding Fathers for the all powerful gov't we have today..........It was perverted........and they warned us.....the Federalist papers are full of proof on that...........

So now quote.........living document.........blah blah blah............but they were SPECIFIC on ENUMERATED POWERS.

Of course not...

They ran an impoverished agrarian country that was spread out over wide areas. They had no choice but to run a decentralized Government

We fought a Civil War to create THE UNITED STATES rather than a bunch of states that are united

Why do you bring up the civil war regarding the founders intent..............
They wrote this a whole lot earlier than the civil war.

They wrote for a world they understood
Not a modern society that is the most powerful economy and military on the planet

We’re a young nation. The Constitution continues to work today. We need more strict constructionist on our courts.

We have one of the oldest continuous governments on earth

As a nation state we are young.

 

[Bush92]

The opposite of "strict constructionist" (or "originalist") is a believer in a "living Constitution."

"General welfare" is not a term of art in the Constitution. That is to say, it does not have a specific meaning.

Most importantly, in Section 8 of Article I, the meaning of "general welfare" is comprehensively defined in the specific powers articulated in that section. As a practical and Constitutional matter, Congress has NO POWERS other than those specifically articulated in Section 8.

This is why, when the "mandate" of the Affordable Care Act was challenged on Constitutional grounds (Congrsss manifestly has NO power to demand that anyone purchase health insurance), the only way the mandate could be upheld was to pretend that the fine was actually a tax. And Congress clearly does have the power to lay and collect taxes.

The Constitution is not a living document. Leave it alone. It is not simple statutory law as per liberal ideology.

 

[danielpalos]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

Protecting their “natural rights” as per John Locke’s “ Social Contract Theory.” They are civil liberties, life, liberty, and property. Nothing to do with socialism.

Social contract theory is all about socialism.

 

[danielpalos]

it is natural for capitalism to have a rate of unemployment.

No, however; it is natural for any society to have its share of malcontents and layabouts. The chronic unemployed is not a function of capitalism, but of a permissive society.

Yes, it is. Nobody takes the right wing seriously about economics.

Well, no one takes you seriously, that is a given.

the right wing doesn't. they are full of fallacy.

You don't even know what a fallacy is. When you are losing an argument, you and your ilk resort to this kind of deflection.

you all don't have any arguments. our general welfare clause is expressly, general.

 

[Bush92]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

Protecting their “natural rights” as per John Locke’s “ Social Contract Theory.” They are civil liberties, life, liberty, and property. Nothing to do with socialism.

Social contract theory is all about socialism.

Uhhhh...no...it is not. It’s about how government ensures the rights of the people. Not step on them like leftist governments do.

 

[danielpalos]

the right wing doesn't. they are full of fallacy.

If the founders meant "general welfare" was socialized medicine, then they would have had it from day one.

they didn't have electric vehicles back then; any more special pleading?

We're not talking about vehicles. You claim "general welfare" means government paid healthcare. It doesn't. The Supreme Court has determined what it means.

Making sure everyone has access to healthcare in our First World economy is a responsibility of Government; the general welfare clause must be general enough to address that issue in a market friendly manner.

access does not mean provided to. Do you at least understand that much?

BTW...there were no markets in the founding generation, therefore a government solution using these markets invalidates your claims.

access means access. we have a general welfare clause.

 

[danielpalos]

they didn't have electric vehicles back then; any more special pleading?

We're not talking about vehicles. You claim "general welfare" means government paid healthcare. It doesn't. The Supreme Court has determined what it means.

Making sure everyone has access to healthcare in our First World economy is a responsibility of Government; the general welfare clause must be general enough to address that issue in a market friendly manner.

No, it isn't a responsibility of government to ensure everyone has healthcare. If it was our founders would have made it so. It's your opinion, that's all.

access to healthcare is providing for the general welfare. we have a First World economy.

The Supreme Court disagreed with you.

where?

 

[Bush92]

Thomas Jefferson said it best

He is referring to independence and the British Empire.

 

[Bush92]

Thomas Jefferson said it best

So he is opposed to frequent changes in constitutions. But not statutory law.

 

[danielpalos]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

Protecting their “natural rights” as per John Locke’s “ Social Contract Theory.” They are civil liberties, life, liberty, and property. Nothing to do with socialism.

Social contract theory is all about socialism.

Uhhhh...no...it is not. It’s about how government ensures the rights of the people. Not step on them like leftist governments do.

that is socialism; it must start with a social contract.

 

[Bush92]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

Protecting their “natural rights” as per John Locke’s “ Social Contract Theory.” They are civil liberties, life, liberty, and property. Nothing to do with socialism.

Social contract theory is all about socialism.

Uhhhh...no...it is not. It’s about how government ensures the rights of the people. Not step on them like leftist governments do.

that is socialism; it must start with a social contract.

Wrong. Socialist ideology is government taking rights away from the people.

 

[danielpalos]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

Protecting their “natural rights” as per John Locke’s “ Social Contract Theory.” They are civil liberties, life, liberty, and property. Nothing to do with socialism.

Social contract theory is all about socialism.

Uhhhh...no...it is not. It’s about how government ensures the rights of the people. Not step on them like leftist governments do.

that is socialism; it must start with a social contract.

Wrong. Socialist ideology is government taking rights away from the people.

Wrong. Only right wing political jargon does that.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Thomas Jefferson said it best

Well so much for the lefts mind becoming more developed they think abortion is not killing a baby.


.

 

[BrokeLoser]

FULL DISCLOSURE-
This thread was heavily inspired by danielpalos
Since I’ve never in my life heard or read someone use the phrase “general welfare” more than he does I figured we could all enlighten him a bit. Thanks to all who engaged I think he’s now well informed, he knows our founders did not intend for freeloadIng lowlifes to live like Rockstars on the neighbors dime.
I stand by my opinion....”general welfare” refers to keeping lowlifes breathing oxygen...nothing more.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Protecting their “natural rights” as per John Locke’s “ Social Contract Theory.” They are civil liberties, life, liberty, and property. Nothing to do with socialism.

Social contract theory is all about socialism.

Uhhhh...no...it is not. It’s about how government ensures the rights of the people. Not step on them like leftist governments do.

that is socialism; it must start with a social contract.

Wrong. Socialist ideology is government taking rights away from the people.

Wrong. Only right wing political jargon does that.

Since when does right wing try to force me to pay a fee to breathe like Obama care?

 

[danielpalos]

Thomas Jefferson said it best

Well so much for the lefts mind becoming more developed they think abortion is not killing a baby.


.

the right wing doesn't care about natural rights.

 

[Bush92]

Thomas Jefferson said it best

The “barbarous past” he refers to is the history of absolute rule from Rome to King George the III. He clearly stated “frequent change “ and his opposition to it. How do you explain the Virginia and Kentucky resolves and his advocacy for “nullification?”