What did our founders really mean when they said “general welfare”?

[ThisIsMe]

With social welfare, those getting the benefits aren't paying the taxes and those paying the taxes don't get from those programs.

Who writes the tax code?
The rich or the poor?

How much of the code is written to benefit the poor vs the rich?
How much benefits the middle class?

Doesn't matter who is wealthy or poor. Laws are for everyone. The Democrats are the tax party. Why don't you start there if you want change.

Very true.....
The Democrats tax and spend
Republicans cut taxes and spend

How about we cut taxes and cut spending? That sounds like a wonderful idea

For once
Cut your spending BEFORE you cut your taxes

Hey, I can agree with that, now let's see if the government is on board

 

[dblack]

Who writes the tax code?
The rich or the poor?

How much of the code is written to benefit the poor vs the rich?
How much benefits the middle class?

Doesn't matter who is wealthy or poor. Laws are for everyone. The Democrats are the tax party. Why don't you start there if you want change.

Very true.....
The Democrats tax and spend
Republicans cut taxes and spend

How about we cut taxes and cut spending? That sounds like a wonderful idea

For once
Cut your spending BEFORE you cut your taxes

Hey, I can agree with that, now let's see if the government is on board

I couldn't agree more. The surest way to get people on board with less government is to make them pay for it.

 

[OKTexas]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

You need look no farther than what the father of the Constitution said about it. My bold.

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. -James Madison Federalist 45

Clauses 2-10 are related to General welfare spending. Note they all deal with the welfare of the Union, not the States and not individual citizens.

Hopefully if we can get another originalist judge on SCOTUS, maybe US v. Butler can be overturned.

.

 

[danielpalos]

Better to give free shit to the wealthy
They will take care of us

Letting people keep their own money isn't giving them anything. It's sad when someone believes their own party propagqanda.

Relieving them of the responsibility to contribute to the society that provides them so much

I promise you, the wealthy give billions each year in charitable donations, and community investment.

People have jobs because of wealthy people, people have community centers because of wealthy people, people have parks, schools, museums, stadiums, made possible by grants from wealthy people.

yet, Government solves all problems not the private sector; or, we would not need our military.

If government would get out of the way, the private sector could solve a lot more problems, and providing a military is a job of the government.

socialism should merely learn how to use capitalism for All of its capital worth in modern times.

 

[danielpalos]

Better to give free shit to the wealthy
They will take care of us

Letting people keep their own money isn't giving them anything. It's sad when someone believes their own party propagqanda.

it isn't Your money if we have Debt.

Uh, yeah it is. Just because the government can't control their spending isn't the fault of the citizen.

Unfortunately, taxation is a legal form of theft, one enforced by the IRS, the most powerful entity in this nation, and it's all wrong, and should not be that way. Don't blame people for wanting to try and keep the government out of their pockets.

A paycheck is what you get in exchange for your time and labor, for you to say that the government owns your money is to say that the government owns you. Sorry, that is incorrect, because if it isn't, then freedom doesn't exist.

Congress has the Power to Tax Your money, to pay the Debts.

1) you are correct, the portion of taxes they take is theirs, the rest is mine.

2) a lot of the taxes we pay are for government programs that are unconstitutional, and we should not be taxed for them, a.k.a, theft.

i agree; we should abolish our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror.

 

[danielpalos]

Let’s look at “General Welfare”

Building a dam to provide electrical power to a sector of the country
Maintaining ports, waterways, roads, bridges
Protecting from flooding
Disaster relief
Helping the poor

Guess which one conservatives consider an assault on the Constituion

Yep, because all the others are defined by the constitution, helping the poor is not.

General welfare means providing general welfare to the country. This is secure borders, public roadways, post offices, a military, things that provide a general well being for the entire country.

Again, I think we should all help the poor, but I don't think the government should take money out of someone's pocket in order to do so.

Let's put it like this, when I have cash in my wallet, and I see homeless people on the road, I don't mind stopping and giving them money. If the government would stop taking so much of my paycheck, I would be inclined to give even more to help people, willingly, voluntarily. The government, however, takes so much of my check that it doesn't leave as much for giving.

If the government would cut back on a lot of other spending, and lowered taxes, you would probably see charitable giving increase.

the power to provide for the General welfare is General, not common like the common defense.

Right, and general welfare means the welfare of the country, as in providing things that the government is allowed to via the enumerated powers.

If the general welfare clause was meant to be used all encompasingly, then why would they need to write 18 enumerated powers.

And lastly, you've posted that statement several times...I'm beginning to think you're a bot lol...

solving simple poverty promotes the general welfare.

 

[danielpalos]

General protections, education, economics, shit like that. Not literally WELFARE as in entitled to substance on the public's dime because you're a lazy piece of shit or corrupt.

The Poor have no need to pay attention to any practitioners of the abomination of Hypocrisy, with a McCarthy era phrase in our pledge.

 

[danielpalos]

Capitalism has a natural rate of poverty inducing unemployment.

That's not a capitalism problem. It's a supply and demand problem.

Get your illegal Mexican brothers the fuck out of here and jobs will open, and wages will naturally rise.

Won't be enough in our First World economy.

We should raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour; it is simpler than than all of that socialism on a national basis, the right wing prefers.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 would kill the economy. All those jobs currently paying $15 would have to raise their pay to at least $21, and all those paying $21 would have to raise to $27, etc..

While it sounds good in theory, a lot of companies would not be able to afford to increase pay of every employee they have, not to mention pretty much pricing any mom and pop business right out of the market.

why such soothsay? simply shedding low wage jobs must help our bottom line regarding social services. and, we need an institutional upward pressure on wages, for cost of living purposes.

we should not be subsidizing employers who can Only make it on Cheap labor in our First World economy.

 

[danielpalos]

Doesn't matter who is wealthy or poor. Laws are for everyone. The Democrats are the tax party. Why don't you start there if you want change.

Very true.....
The Democrats tax and spend
Republicans cut taxes and spend

How about we cut taxes and cut spending? That sounds like a wonderful idea

For once
Cut your spending BEFORE you cut your taxes

Hey, I can agree with that, now let's see if the government is on board

I couldn't agree more. The surest way to get people on board with less government is to make them pay for it.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, to make sure the Poor, pay for it.

 

[danielpalos]

If you voted for Trump there’s a good chance you’re a lot like me with regard to why....I voted for him on two policies almost exclusively...First and foremost on how he would deal with illegal Mexicans and the border and second on how he would yank lowlifes off the Democrat induced welfare plantation.
Anyhoo, as we approach the point where welfare reform will be visited I ask for your opinions on EXACTLY what you think our founders meant when they used the phrase “GENERAL WELFARE” in the constitution?

Attention all Smartest Guys In The Room, and legal scholars:
Please spare us the case citations such as the U.S. vs Butler case and the like. I’m interested in YOUR opinions.

You need look no farther than what the father of the Constitution said about it. My bold.

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State. -James Madison Federalist 45

Clauses 2-10 are related to General welfare spending. Note they all deal with the welfare of the Union, not the States and not individual citizens.

Hopefully if we can get another originalist judge on SCOTUS, maybe US v. Butler can be overturned.

.

lol. in that case, we also need to scrutinize the common defense clause; it is not a general warfare clause nor a common offense clause.

 

[jc456]

Wrong again

He wrote it many years after the revolution

He also wrote the Declaration of Independence. Read it and see what he says about natural rights and the violation of those by the Crown.

Tell us

“Endowed by their Creator with certain new inalianable right...” aka “natural rights. The Declaration is a series of grievances against the tyrannical rule of the barbaric King. He quoted stirring up native groups to attack along the frontier killing men, women, and children. The King not recognizing colonial governments etc.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Hapiness

So our government pursuing those in the interests of the general welfare meets the intent of our founders

Taking rights from the states and the respective people there of...is not general welfare. The general welfare of the people involves the least amount of government intervention in their lives. Our nation was founded on individual liberty, states rights, and protection of those rights by a federal union made up of a sundry of the states.

It is the exact reason we have an electoral college to elect a president. The states get to vote the president.

 

[rightwinger]

Capitalism has a natural rate of poverty inducing unemployment.

That's not a capitalism problem. It's a supply and demand problem.

Get your illegal Mexican brothers the fuck out of here and jobs will open, and wages will naturally rise.

Won't be enough in our First World economy.

We should raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour; it is simpler than than all of that socialism on a national basis, the right wing prefers.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 would kill the economy. All those jobs currently paying $15 would have to raise their pay to at least $21, and all those paying $21 would have to raise to $27, etc..

While it sounds good in theory, a lot of companies would not be able to afford to increase pay of every employee they have, not to mention pretty much pricing any mom and pop business right out of the market.

After ten years

Long overdue

 

[Bush92]

Capitalism has a natural rate of poverty inducing unemployment.

That's not a capitalism problem. It's a supply and demand problem.

Get your illegal Mexican brothers the fuck out of here and jobs will open, and wages will naturally rise.

Won't be enough in our First World economy.

We should raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour; it is simpler than than all of that socialism on a national basis, the right wing prefers.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 would kill the economy. All those jobs currently paying $15 would have to raise their pay to at least $21, and all those paying $21 would have to raise to $27, etc..

While it sounds good in theory, a lot of companies would not be able to afford to increase pay of every employee they have, not to mention pretty much pricing any mom and pop business right out of the market.

After ten years

Long overdue

The minimum wage was never meant to be a livable wage. It was meant to stop bringing illegals over and undercutting the wages of the legal immigrants and to stop the hiring of teenagers to undercut adults in service sector. You raise the minimum wage to $15.00 then prices will just rise to accommodate. You will only increase inflation.

 

[rightwinger]

Capitalism has a natural rate of poverty inducing unemployment.

That's not a capitalism problem. It's a supply and demand problem.

Get your illegal Mexican brothers the fuck out of here and jobs will open, and wages will naturally rise.

Won't be enough in our First World economy.

We should raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour; it is simpler than than all of that socialism on a national basis, the right wing prefers.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 would kill the economy. All those jobs currently paying $15 would have to raise their pay to at least $21, and all those paying $21 would have to raise to $27, etc..

While it sounds good in theory, a lot of companies would not be able to afford to increase pay of every employee they have, not to mention pretty much pricing any mom and pop business right out of the market.

After ten years

Long overdue

The minimum wage was never meant to be a livable wage. It was meant to stop bringing illegals over and undercutting the wages of the legal immigrants and to stop the hiring of teenagers to undercut adults in service sector. You raise the minimum wage to $15.00 then prices will just rise to accommodate. You will only increase inflation.

You guys always say that

Never happens......the market adjusts

 

[danielpalos]

Capitalism has a natural rate of poverty inducing unemployment.

That's not a capitalism problem. It's a supply and demand problem.

Get your illegal Mexican brothers the fuck out of here and jobs will open, and wages will naturally rise.

Won't be enough in our First World economy.

We should raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour; it is simpler than than all of that socialism on a national basis, the right wing prefers.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 would kill the economy. All those jobs currently paying $15 would have to raise their pay to at least $21, and all those paying $21 would have to raise to $27, etc..

While it sounds good in theory, a lot of companies would not be able to afford to increase pay of every employee they have, not to mention pretty much pricing any mom and pop business right out of the market.

After ten years

Long overdue

The minimum wage was never meant to be a livable wage. It was meant to stop bringing illegals over and undercutting the wages of the legal immigrants and to stop the hiring of teenagers to undercut adults in service sector. You raise the minimum wage to $15.00 then prices will just rise to accommodate. You will only increase inflation.

inflation happens anyway; a first world economy costs. only the right wing has a problem with a Minimum wage.

 

[Bush92]

That's not a capitalism problem. It's a supply and demand problem.

Get your illegal Mexican brothers the fuck out of here and jobs will open, and wages will naturally rise.

Won't be enough in our First World economy.

We should raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour; it is simpler than than all of that socialism on a national basis, the right wing prefers.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 would kill the economy. All those jobs currently paying $15 would have to raise their pay to at least $21, and all those paying $21 would have to raise to $27, etc..

While it sounds good in theory, a lot of companies would not be able to afford to increase pay of every employee they have, not to mention pretty much pricing any mom and pop business right out of the market.

After ten years

Long overdue

The minimum wage was never meant to be a livable wage. It was meant to stop bringing illegals over and undercutting the wages of the legal immigrants and to stop the hiring of teenagers to undercut adults in service sector. You raise the minimum wage to $15.00 then prices will just rise to accommodate. You will only increase inflation.

inflation happens anyway; a first world economy costs. only the right wing has a problem with a Minimum wage.

Conservatives don’t have a problem with a minimum. It works great for high-school kids working in service sector. If your expecting to raise a family on a minimum wage service sector job...then you are just plain delusional. What did you do to prepare for life?

 

[danielpalos]

Won't be enough in our First World economy.

We should raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour; it is simpler than than all of that socialism on a national basis, the right wing prefers.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 would kill the economy. All those jobs currently paying $15 would have to raise their pay to at least $21, and all those paying $21 would have to raise to $27, etc..

While it sounds good in theory, a lot of companies would not be able to afford to increase pay of every employee they have, not to mention pretty much pricing any mom and pop business right out of the market.

After ten years

Long overdue

The minimum wage was never meant to be a livable wage. It was meant to stop bringing illegals over and undercutting the wages of the legal immigrants and to stop the hiring of teenagers to undercut adults in service sector. You raise the minimum wage to $15.00 then prices will just rise to accommodate. You will only increase inflation.

inflation happens anyway; a first world economy costs. only the right wing has a problem with a Minimum wage.

Conservatives don’t have a problem with a minimum. It works great for high-school kids working in service sector. If your expecting to raise a family on a minimum wage service sector job...then you are just plain delusional. What did you do to prepare for life?

why whine about raising the minimum wage?

 

[Bush92]

Raising the minimum wage to $15 would kill the economy. All those jobs currently paying $15 would have to raise their pay to at least $21, and all those paying $21 would have to raise to $27, etc..

While it sounds good in theory, a lot of companies would not be able to afford to increase pay of every employee they have, not to mention pretty much pricing any mom and pop business right out of the market.

After ten years

Long overdue

The minimum wage was never meant to be a livable wage. It was meant to stop bringing illegals over and undercutting the wages of the legal immigrants and to stop the hiring of teenagers to undercut adults in service sector. You raise the minimum wage to $15.00 then prices will just rise to accommodate. You will only increase inflation.

inflation happens anyway; a first world economy costs. only the right wing has a problem with a Minimum wage.

Conservatives don’t have a problem with a minimum. It works great for high-school kids working in service sector. If your expecting to raise a family on a minimum wage service sector job...then you are just plain delusional. What did you do to prepare for life?

why whine about raising the minimum wage?

Not whining...the idea is fucking stupid.

 

[there4eyeM]

Whatever the "founders" meant, it was according to their 18th century view.

 

[Bush92]

Whatever the "founders" meant, it was according to their 18th century view.

The Constitution is a great document that still works today.