CDZ What do American Muslims want?

[SassyIrishLass]

You'll need to quote Paul before I can comment further

No, you'll need to address Mark 10:9 first. Or Matthew 19:6 if that's easier.

You brought Paul into it....post the quote. I'll wait

So you aren't familiar with Mark or Matthew, or you prefer 1 Corinthians: 7 for personal reasons. Remind me, though. Does the "Yeah, go ahead and get divorced" passage occur before or after the "Wives, be submissive to your husbands" bit?

I've already addressed my thoughts on divorce in this thread and I'm well aware of both Mark and Matthew. Perhaps you should keep up?

And here I thought you wanted serious discussion.

I said I already addressed my thoughts on divorce on this thread, I'm not going to repeat myself. You can simply scroll up, now stop trying to create drama

 

[elektra]

Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?

Here is your post, which Civil Matters are speaking of. You have stated Moslems are settling Civil Matters, so quote, and link, or explain this civil matter you know of.

 

[elektra]

You are still not making sense.

What have I mischaracterized?

What contention have I failed to support?

I am not making sense? Then you have not the ability to follow your own posts and comments. I reposted your original post, lets see if you can step up, or if you will step back.

 

[Arianrhod]

No, you'll need to address Mark 10:9 first. Or Matthew 19:6 if that's easier.

You brought Paul into it....post the quote. I'll wait

So you aren't familiar with Mark or Matthew, or you prefer 1 Corinthians: 7 for personal reasons. Remind me, though. Does the "Yeah, go ahead and get divorced" passage occur before or after the "Wives, be submissive to your husbands" bit?

I've already addressed my thoughts on divorce in this thread and I'm well aware of both Mark and Matthew. Perhaps you should keep up?

And here I thought you wanted serious discussion.

I said I already addressed my thoughts on divorce on this thread, I'm not going to repeat myself. You can simply scroll up, now stop trying to create drama

So Paul allows divorce but Jesus, according to those who recorded his words, did not; hence you're down with Paul. Just looking for clarity. Thank you.

 

[Arianrhod]

You are still not making sense.

What have I mischaracterized?

What contention have I failed to support?

I am not making sense? Then you have not the ability to follow your own posts and comments. I reposted your original post, lets see if you can step up, or if you will step back.

Who posted this:

Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

???

 

[SassyIrishLass]

You brought Paul into it....post the quote. I'll wait

So you aren't familiar with Mark or Matthew, or you prefer 1 Corinthians: 7 for personal reasons. Remind me, though. Does the "Yeah, go ahead and get divorced" passage occur before or after the "Wives, be submissive to your husbands" bit?

I've already addressed my thoughts on divorce in this thread and I'm well aware of both Mark and Matthew. Perhaps you should keep up?

And here I thought you wanted serious discussion.

I said I already addressed my thoughts on divorce on this thread, I'm not going to repeat myself. You can simply scroll up, now stop trying to create drama

So Paul allows divorce but Jesus, according to those who recorded his words, did not; hence you're down with Paul. Just looking for clarity. Thank you.

The Catholic Church allows annulments because divorce is sometimes warranted in certain situations. Now either learn what you are blabbering about or don't blabber

 

[Syriusly]

I'm going to start by posting a post I posted in a thread now closed, because it provides the info I need for this thread.

Do American Muslims want Sharia to be the "law of the land"?

Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):

Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.

Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).


The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.


The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.


Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.


Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).

Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.

The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.

Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
On women working outside the home:
Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.


A few other takeaways from the poll:

• Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.

• Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)

Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.

In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.

• On wearing a hijab:

About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.

• On assimilation:

A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.

More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.


When ask, who you are:

When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).

The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.

Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

Which Christians don't believe in the 10 Commandments?

The 10 Commandments isn't repeated over and over and over till it fills up the Old Testament completely.....and if it did then I would believe in the whole OT.

FYI, Yeshua (Jesus) wrote a new commandment, "Love Thy Neighbor As You Love Thyself". That's quite a change from "An Eye For An Eye".

This is the primary difference between Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Yeshua taught the disciples to love even their worst enemies. I don't see that anywhere in the Old Testament or the Koran. He wanted them to turn the other cheek. Matthew 22 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Well you can believe whatever you want to believe. Jesus was a Jew- and the Old Testament was his holy book- which is why he refers to the 10 Commandments and other teachings.

I do think that Jesus commandment to "Love they neighbor as you love thyself" was a game changer- even more so when he commanded his followers to love their enemies too- because as Jesus pointed out- it is easy to love your neighbors- and much harder to love your enemies.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Feel free to offer your "help".

Unless you can prove that they are mentally incapacitated, you are just demanding that you have the right to abrogate their First Amendment rights.

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

How would you reconcile our nation's core belief in freedom of religion with your views here?

Freedom of religion is not absolute. As an example, I can't just rape someone and claim to be free of prosecution because I declare myself a Muslim and there weren't 4 witnessed to the rape. So the complaining woman should be stoned to death for adultery.

Once again you move from what we are discussing- consensual behavior among adults that doesn't violate U.S. law to actions which are criminal actions.

Muslims have the same religious rights as every American has. Those rights include conducting themselves in private relationships as they see fit so long as they do not break American law.

And that includes living their lives by Sharia as long as they do not violate the law.

So basically you agree with me then, Muslims can only ever have partial constitutional freedom of religion.

This doesn’t make any sense – all religions, and those free from faith, enjoy the benefit of Free Exercise Clause jurisprudence, where any restriction on religious practice not entitled to Constitutional protections is applied consistently to all faiths, not just Muslims.

The mistake being made here is to incorrectly assume that in order for a Muslim to comprehensively practice his faith he must ‘violate’ secular law and engage in acts not entitled to Constitutional protections, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

Indeed, a Muslim does not need to ‘commit rape’ in order to be in compliance with his religion’s doctrine and dogma – the notion is nothing but ignorant, bigoted idiocy.

 

[mudwhistle]

Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

Which Christians don't believe in the 10 Commandments?

The 10 Commandments isn't repeated over and over and over till it fills up the Old Testament completely.....and if it did then I would believe in the whole OT.

FYI, Yeshua (Jesus) wrote a new commandment, "Love Thy Neighbor As You Love Thyself". That's quite a change from "An Eye For An Eye".

This is the primary difference between Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Yeshua taught the disciples to love even their worst enemies. I don't see that anywhere in the Old Testament or the Koran. He wanted them to turn the other cheek. Matthew 22 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Well you can believe whatever you want to believe. Jesus was a Jew- and the Old Testament was his holy book- which is why he refers to the 10 Commandments and other teachings.

I do think that Jesus commandment to "Love they neighbor as you love thyself" was a game changer- even more so when he commanded his followers to love their enemies too- because as Jesus pointed out- it is easy to love your neighbors- and much harder to love your enemies.

Wasn't that my point???

Neighbor is the same as enemy in this commandment.

Yet you feel it's not a game-changer.

Imagine if Muslims could learn to forgive instead of wanting to kill anyone who pisses them off. That would totally change Islam forever.

 

[elektra]

You are still not making sense.

What have I mischaracterized?

What contention have I failed to support?

I am not making sense? Then you have not the ability to follow your own posts and comments. I reposted your original post, lets see if you can step up, or if you will step back.

Who posted this:

Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

???

There is only one Law in the USA, Sharia law has no place, not even in peoples private lives.

 

[Syriusly]

Sharia is an entire code of rules for living, civil matters along with a penal code. In that sense it's no different than Halakah, or Catholic religious law used in arbritration. What you and others seem to miss is that not all Muslims follow the entire package, just like not all Jews follow the entire package - what is followed is what is line with US law, or whatever the law of the country is. In any western country that allows religious arbritration - it applies ONLY to civil matters - not criminal. Divorce, marriage, contracts - and it's voluntary. It also can go against existing laws. It's a reasonable avenue for religious people who want to resolve things within their faith.

I simply disagree, sharia law is totally unfair to women and should be disallowed everywhere possible. As for the other religions, go start a thread, you keep trying to derail this one. Who do I report YOU to? .

As for this "It also can go against existing laws", you must be nuts.

You simply disagree with the First Amendment? Oh, well, then.

So you'd let Muslim women be stoned to death in the US for some bullshit reason?

No- no one is suggesting that- as we have said over and over-religious law is not allowed to violate U.S. laws.

If Muslim men or women choose to follow aspects of Sharia law between themselves that does not violate U.S. law, then doing so is their religious right.

So a Muslim woman can agree to be stoned to death? Umm... No. Not even close.

Since I already addressed that when you decided to bring that in before- are you now just trolling?

If Muslim men or women choose to follow aspects of Sharia law between themselves that does not violate U.S. law, then doing so is their religious right.[

What part about not breaking U.S. law is problematic for you to understand?

 

[Syriusly]

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

Which Christians don't believe in the 10 Commandments?

The 10 Commandments isn't repeated over and over and over till it fills up the Old Testament completely.....and if it did then I would believe in the whole OT.

FYI, Yeshua (Jesus) wrote a new commandment, "Love Thy Neighbor As You Love Thyself". That's quite a change from "An Eye For An Eye".

This is the primary difference between Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Yeshua taught the disciples to love even their worst enemies. I don't see that anywhere in the Old Testament or the Koran. He wanted them to turn the other cheek. Matthew 22 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Well you can believe whatever you want to believe. Jesus was a Jew- and the Old Testament was his holy book- which is why he refers to the 10 Commandments and other teachings.

I do think that Jesus commandment to "Love they neighbor as you love thyself" was a game changer- even more so when he commanded his followers to love their enemies too- because as Jesus pointed out- it is easy to love your neighbors- and much harder to love your enemies.

Wasn't that my point???

Neighbor is the same as enemy in this commandment.

Yet you feel it's not a game-changer.

Imagine if Muslims could learn to forgive instead of wanting to kill anyone who pisses them off. That would totally change Islam forever.

I said it is a game changer. I agree with you.

I know lots of Muslims- they forgive me regularly- not a one of them has gone around wanting to kill me.

Now if every Christian would actually live by Jesus's commandments- just imagine how much more peaceful the United States would be?

 

[Syriusly]

You are still not making sense.

What have I mischaracterized?

What contention have I failed to support?

I am not making sense? Then you have not the ability to follow your own posts and comments. I reposted your original post, lets see if you can step up, or if you will step back.

Who posted this:

Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

???

There is only one Law in the USA, Sharia law has no place, not even in peoples private lives.

So you also believe that Kosher law and Catholic law has no place in the United States?

 

[mudwhistle]

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

Which Christians don't believe in the 10 Commandments?

The 10 Commandments isn't repeated over and over and over till it fills up the Old Testament completely.....and if it did then I would believe in the whole OT.

FYI, Yeshua (Jesus) wrote a new commandment, "Love Thy Neighbor As You Love Thyself". That's quite a change from "An Eye For An Eye".

This is the primary difference between Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Yeshua taught the disciples to love even their worst enemies. I don't see that anywhere in the Old Testament or the Koran. He wanted them to turn the other cheek. Matthew 22 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Well you can believe whatever you want to believe. Jesus was a Jew- and the Old Testament was his holy book- which is why he refers to the 10 Commandments and other teachings.

I do think that Jesus commandment to "Love they neighbor as you love thyself" was a game changer- even more so when he commanded his followers to love their enemies too- because as Jesus pointed out- it is easy to love your neighbors- and much harder to love your enemies.

Wasn't that my point???

Neighbor is the same as enemy in this commandment.

Yet you feel it's not a game-changer.

Imagine if Muslims could learn to forgive instead of wanting to kill anyone who pisses them off. That would totally change Islam forever.

I said it is a game changer. I agree with you.

I know lots of Muslims- they forgive me regularly- not a one of them has gone around wanting to kill me.

Now if every Christian would actually live by Jesus's commandments- just imagine how much more peaceful the United States would be?

If liberals and Democrats could do the same it would increase peace in the US by at least 99%. Then they would stop calling us stupid, racists, or women haters.

 

[Coyote]

Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?

Here is your post, which Civil Matters are speaking of. You have stated Moslems are settling Civil Matters, so quote, and link, or explain this civil matter you know of.

Thank you.

I already provided you with links that indicate what those civil matters are: divorce, marriage, contracts (in particular sharia compliant financial contracts) property disputes are the sort of things Sharia councils deal with. I have said this several times. Do you need more info?

 

[Syriusly]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

How does a divorce violate existing laws?
How does a Sharia-compliant contract violate existing laws?

. But sharia is like a knife fight, you're either all in or all out, and if you're all in, it's going to be bloody, that's guaranteed.

According to who?

Remember so far all you have cited is yourself.

And so far your knowledge of Sharia has been far from convincing.

Are you really a sharia lover? That's truly pathetic.

Are you really trying to troll in the CDZ?

Quote me where I espouse my love for Sharia- or quite the crap in the CDZ.

I no more 'love Sharia law' than you love kicking puppies to death.

 

[Syriusly]

Feel free to offer your "help".

Unless you can prove that they are mentally incapacitated, you are just demanding that you have the right to abrogate their First Amendment rights.

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

How would you reconcile our nation's core belief in freedom of religion with your views here?

Freedom of religion is not absolute. As an example, I can't just rape someone and claim to be free of prosecution because I declare myself a Muslim and there weren't 4 witnessed to the rape. So the complaining woman should be stoned to death for adultery.

Once again you move from what we are discussing- consensual behavior among adults that doesn't violate U.S. law to actions which are criminal actions.

Muslims have the same religious rights as every American has. Those rights include conducting themselves in private relationships as they see fit so long as they do not break American law.

And that includes living their lives by Sharia as long as they do not violate the law.

So basically you agree with me then, Muslims can only ever have partial constitutional freedom of religion.

So basically you agree with me that all Americans are protected by the same First Amendment rights, and that Muslims and Christians have the exact same freedom of religion.

 

[elektra]

Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?

Here is your post, which Civil Matters are speaking of. You have stated Moslems are settling Civil Matters, so quote, and link, or explain this civil matter you know of.

Thank you.

I already provided you with links that indicate what those civil matters are: divorce, marriage, contracts (in particular sharia compliant financial contracts) property disputes are the sort of things Sharia councils deal with. I have said this several times. Do you need more info?

And thank you, you have no Civil Case and can not quote and comment on any civil case to make your point.

Sharia councils have no business in the USA. We have one system of laws, that is what makes us exceptional.

 

[Syriusly]

Paul was canonical, which meant his writings, teachings and letters were scripture worthy. Canonical means "measures up to being God's revealed word"

Tell me- do you agree that Donald Trump should be condemned as an adulterer by Christians?

I don't know the circumstances so I can't come to a conclusion. People go on about divorce and Christians, I don't know the circumstances of that either, one person may want a divorce and the other wanted to work it out...who's heart is sincere? Only God knows and the involved parties. Believe what you wish on any part of it, in the end it's God who will have the final judgement, my thoughts are irrelevant.

Also if you want to go on about Trump's infidelities tread lightly, Hillary's is highly suspect also

Wait- you are willing to tell me that the New Testament condemns homosexuality(even though it doesn't specifically) but want to ignore Jesus's express commandment against divorce and remarriage?

Jesus didn't care whose heart was sincere- but perhaps Donald did divorce his wives because they were cheating on him.....LOL

8Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

According to Jesus- Trump is an adulterer- unless wife #1 and wife #2 were each unfaithful to him and that was the reason for the divorce.

 

[Syriusly]

Which Christians don't believe in the 10 Commandments?

The 10 Commandments isn't repeated over and over and over till it fills up the Old Testament completely.....and if it did then I would believe in the whole OT.

FYI, Yeshua (Jesus) wrote a new commandment, "Love Thy Neighbor As You Love Thyself". That's quite a change from "An Eye For An Eye".

This is the primary difference between Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Yeshua taught the disciples to love even their worst enemies. I don't see that anywhere in the Old Testament or the Koran. He wanted them to turn the other cheek. Matthew 22 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Well you can believe whatever you want to believe. Jesus was a Jew- and the Old Testament was his holy book- which is why he refers to the 10 Commandments and other teachings.

I do think that Jesus commandment to "Love they neighbor as you love thyself" was a game changer- even more so when he commanded his followers to love their enemies too- because as Jesus pointed out- it is easy to love your neighbors- and much harder to love your enemies.

Wasn't that my point???

Neighbor is the same as enemy in this commandment.

Yet you feel it's not a game-changer.

Imagine if Muslims could learn to forgive instead of wanting to kill anyone who pisses them off. That would totally change Islam forever.

I said it is a game changer. I agree with you.

I know lots of Muslims- they forgive me regularly- not a one of them has gone around wanting to kill me.

Now if every Christian would actually live by Jesus's commandments- just imagine how much more peaceful the United States would be?

If liberals and Democrats could do the same it would increase peace in the US by at least 99%. Then they would stop calling us stupid, racists, or women haters.

And if only conservatives and Republicans could do that it would increase peace in the United States by at least 100%. Then they would stop calling minorities stupid and stop insulting women.