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He never said anything about murder or pedophiles either, you think He is OK with it?
Paul was canonical, which meant his writings, teachings and letters were scripture worthy. Canonical means "measures up to being God's revealed word"
Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.
What is a good Muslim?
The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example.They can't have it both ways...
I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.
Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old. The "old laws" were mostly consisting of dietary and ceremonial law and were meant for the Jews,not the Gentiles. Many people confuse the Old and New Testaments with the Old and New Covenants, they are two different things
What are the 10 Commandments?
Where is homosexuality condemned in the New Testament? And by condemning, i mean like how Jesus condemns divorce and remarriage.
Romans 1:18-32 is a start there are other verses as well
Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.
The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example.
I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.
Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old. The "old laws" were mostly consisting of dietary and ceremonial law and were meant for the Jews,not the Gentiles. Many people confuse the Old and New Testaments with the Old and New Covenants, they are two different things
What are the 10 Commandments?
Where is homosexuality condemned in the New Testament? And by condemning, i mean like how Jesus condemns divorce and remarriage.
Jesus himself never said Word One about homosexuality. Paul came along without ever having met Jesus and claimed "Well, what He meant to say was..."
He never said anything about murder or pedophiles either, you think He is OK with it?
Paul was canonical, which meant his writings, teachings and letters were scripture worthy. Canonical means "measures up to being God's revealed word"
So a Muslim woman can agree to be stoned to death? Umm... No. Not even close.So you'd let Muslim women be stoned to death in the US for some bullshit reason?I simply disagree, sharia law is totally unfair to women and should be disallowed everywhere possible. As for the other religions, go start a thread, you keep trying to derail this one. Who do I report YOU to?Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.
Sharia is an entire code of rules for living, civil matters along with a penal code. In that sense it's no different than Halakah, or Catholic religious law used in arbritration. What you and others seem to miss is that not all Muslims follow the entire package, just like not all Jews follow the entire package - what is followed is what is line with US law, or whatever the law of the country is. In any western country that allows religious arbritration - it applies ONLY to civil matters - not criminal. Divorce, marriage, contracts - and it's voluntary. It also can go against existing laws. It's a reasonable avenue for religious people who want to resolve things within their faith..
As for this "It also can go against existing laws", you must be nuts.
You simply disagree with the First Amendment? Oh, well, then.
No- no one is suggesting that- as we have said over and over-religious law is not allowed to violate U.S. laws.
If Muslim men or women choose to follow aspects of Sharia law between themselves that does not violate U.S. law, then doing so is their religious right.
So basically you agree with me then, Muslims can only ever have partial constitutional freedom of religion.Freedom of religion is not absolute. As an example, I can't just rape someone and claim to be free of prosecution because I declare myself a Muslim and there weren't 4 witnessed to the rape. So the complaining woman should be stoned to death for adultery.So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.
Feel free to offer your "help".
Unless you can prove that they are mentally incapacitated, you are just demanding that you have the right to abrogate their First Amendment rights.
How would you reconcile our nation's core belief in freedom of religion with your views here?
Once again you move from what we are discussing- consensual behavior among adults that doesn't violate U.S. law to actions which are criminal actions.
Muslims have the same religious rights as every American has. Those rights include conducting themselves in private relationships as they see fit so long as they do not break American law.
And that includes living their lives by Sharia as long as they do not violate the law.
Any western country that allows sharia is fucked up, you can have them.I'm sure that some do land within the Western zone of comfort. But sharia is like a knife fight, you're either all in or all out, and if you're all in, it's going to be bloody, that's guaranteed.Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here....so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.
How does a divorce violate existing laws?
How does a Sharia-compliant contract violate existing laws?
That's not true, at least not in the way it's been used in any western countries for some time now.
Paul was canonical, which meant his writings, teachings and letters were scripture worthy. Canonical means "measures up to being God's revealed word"
Tell me- do you agree that Donald Trump should be condemned as an adulterer by Christians?
I don't know the circumstances so I can't come to a conclusion. People go on about divorce and Christians, I don't know the circumstances of that either, one person may want a divorce and the other wanted to work it out...who's heart is sincere? Only God knows and the involved parties. Believe what you wish on any part of it, in the end it's God who will have the final judgement, my thoughts are irrelevant.
It's one thing to reject the OT and another to accept it for what it is. I guess you need to fully understand what the Gospel of Jesus Christ means. One of them is that not only Jews, but everyone can receive the gifts God originally gave to the Chosen People, Hebrews, who were once slaves of Egypt. The OT speaks about Hebrews and their linage. Not everything in the OT can be taken literally. Jesus himself said as much. This is what he spoke of when he was talking about parables and the Holy Spirit. Only those who have been saved, accepted that Jesus is the son of God, and have accepted the Holy Spirit, know what the Bible truly means. You can't just read it and figure you know everything about it.Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.I'm going to start by posting a post I posted in a thread now closed, because it provides the info I need for this thread.
Do American Muslims want Sharia to be the "law of the land"?
Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):
Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.
Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).
The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.
The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.
Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.
Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).
Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.
The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.
Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.
Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
On women working outside the home:
Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.
Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.
A few other takeaways from the poll:
- Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.
Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.
- Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)
In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.
About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.
- On wearing a hijab:
A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.
- On assimilation:
More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.
When ask, who you are:
When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).
The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.
Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.
What is a good Muslim?
The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example.
I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.
I don't know the circumstances so I can't come to a conclusion. People go on about divorce and Christians, I don't know the circumstances of that either, one person may want a divorce and the other wanted to work it out...who's heart is sincere? Only God knows and the involved parties. Believe what you wish on any part of it, in the end it's God who will have the final judgement, my thoughts are irrelevant.
So what Jesus said in Mark 10:9 is irrelevant, but if Paul says it, it's relevant. Fascinating.
The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example.
I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.
Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old. The "old laws" were mostly consisting of dietary and ceremonial law and were meant for the Jews,not the Gentiles. Many people confuse the Old and New Testaments with the Old and New Covenants, they are two different things
What are the 10 Commandments?
Where is homosexuality condemned in the New Testament? And by condemning, i mean like how Jesus condemns divorce and remarriage.
Jesus himself never said Word One about homosexuality. Paul came along without ever having met Jesus and claimed "Well, what He meant to say was..."
He never said anything about murder or pedophiles either, you think He is OK with it?
I think that we can assume that Jesus spoke about what he thought it was important to teach his followers.
Why his followers feel like they should condemn homosexuals who are not Christians I do not know.
I don't know the circumstances so I can't come to a conclusion. People go on about divorce and Christians, I don't know the circumstances of that either, one person may want a divorce and the other wanted to work it out...who's heart is sincere? Only God knows and the involved parties. Believe what you wish on any part of it, in the end it's God who will have the final judgement, my thoughts are irrelevant.
So what Jesus said in Mark 10:9 is irrelevant, but if Paul says it, it's relevant. Fascinating.
You'll need to quote Paul before I can comment further
I asked you to be specific and give us the case you were speaking of. You stated civil cases, I shall go back, to your post, and you can tell us what you meant, how about that. I see you have nothing specific, and you are busy formulating your idea with google, find and dandy. But it is hardly a clean debate when you mis-characterize my posts after your failures to support your contentions.What exactly are you asking for? Specific court cases? You skipped over that question.
Civil law covers contracts, wills, property etc. Family law falls under Civil Law.
If you want me to provide concise information, you need to ask concise questions, not rambling about all over the post.
I don't know the circumstances so I can't come to a conclusion. People go on about divorce and Christians, I don't know the circumstances of that either, one person may want a divorce and the other wanted to work it out...who's heart is sincere? Only God knows and the involved parties. Believe what you wish on any part of it, in the end it's God who will have the final judgement, my thoughts are irrelevant.
So what Jesus said in Mark 10:9 is irrelevant, but if Paul says it, it's relevant. Fascinating.
You'll need to quote Paul before I can comment further
No, you'll need to address Mark 10:9 first. Or Matthew 19:6 if that's easier.
I asked you to be specific and give us the case you were speaking of. You stated civil cases, I shall go back, to your post, and you can tell us what you meant, how about that. I see you have nothing specific, and you are busy formulating your idea with google, find and dandy. But it is hardly a clean debate when you mis-characterize my posts after your failures to support your contentions.What exactly are you asking for? Specific court cases? You skipped over that question.
Civil law covers contracts, wills, property etc. Family law falls under Civil Law.
If you want me to provide concise information, you need to ask concise questions, not rambling about all over the post.
I don't know the circumstances so I can't come to a conclusion. People go on about divorce and Christians, I don't know the circumstances of that either, one person may want a divorce and the other wanted to work it out...who's heart is sincere? Only God knows and the involved parties. Believe what you wish on any part of it, in the end it's God who will have the final judgement, my thoughts are irrelevant.
So what Jesus said in Mark 10:9 is irrelevant, but if Paul says it, it's relevant. Fascinating.
You'll need to quote Paul before I can comment further
No, you'll need to address Mark 10:9 first. Or Matthew 19:6 if that's easier.
You brought Paul into it....post the quote. I'll wait
I don't know the circumstances so I can't come to a conclusion. People go on about divorce and Christians, I don't know the circumstances of that either, one person may want a divorce and the other wanted to work it out...who's heart is sincere? Only God knows and the involved parties. Believe what you wish on any part of it, in the end it's God who will have the final judgement, my thoughts are irrelevant.
So what Jesus said in Mark 10:9 is irrelevant, but if Paul says it, it's relevant. Fascinating.
You'll need to quote Paul before I can comment further
No, you'll need to address Mark 10:9 first. Or Matthew 19:6 if that's easier.
You brought Paul into it....post the quote. I'll wait
So you aren't familiar with Mark or Matthew, or you prefer 1 Corinthians: 7 for personal reasons. Remind me, though. Does the "Yeah, go ahead and get divorced" passage occur before or after the "Wives, be submissive to your husbands" bit?
The 10 Commandments isn't repeated over and over and over till it fills up the Old Testament completely.....and if it did then I would believe in the whole OT.Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.I'm going to start by posting a post I posted in a thread now closed, because it provides the info I need for this thread.
Do American Muslims want Sharia to be the "law of the land"?
Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values
None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):
Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.
Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).
The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.
The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.
Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.
Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).
Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.
The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.
Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.
Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
On women working outside the home:
Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.
Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.
A few other takeaways from the poll:
- Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.
Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.
- Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)
In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.
About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.
- On wearing a hijab:
A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.
- On assimilation:
More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.
When ask, who you are:
When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).
The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.
Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.
What is a good Muslim?
Which Christians don't believe in the 10 Commandments?
So what Jesus said in Mark 10:9 is irrelevant, but if Paul says it, it's relevant. Fascinating.
You'll need to quote Paul before I can comment further
No, you'll need to address Mark 10:9 first. Or Matthew 19:6 if that's easier.
You brought Paul into it....post the quote. I'll wait
So you aren't familiar with Mark or Matthew, or you prefer 1 Corinthians: 7 for personal reasons. Remind me, though. Does the "Yeah, go ahead and get divorced" passage occur before or after the "Wives, be submissive to your husbands" bit?
I've already addressed my thoughts on divorce in this thread and I'm well aware of both Mark and Matthew. Perhaps you should keep up?
