Criticism of Israel

[Sherlock Holmes]

Do you know me? Have we met?

Yes I know you, I know your heart, your posts reveal it.

 

[gipper]

I have no idea where you found the 1%, I suppose you just plucked it out of thin air.

View attachment 982533

So, how a non-Jew who shares views with at least 25% of all Jews, can be accused of being antisemitic, escapes me, it is a terrible thing to say to me, it is in fact repugnant to speak to me in that way, but it is typical of xenophobes be they gentile or Jewish.

Don’t expect civility from her. She’s a Zionist after all. Anyone who opposes Israel’s genocide she labels antisemitic. It’s an old tactic used by ignorant people.

The UN court ruling that Israel is an illegal occupying force will be used to argue that the whole entire world is against Jews and used to justify more abuses and atrocities. That’s the beauty of the “criticism of Israel is antisemitism” narrative: it reinforces itself. The more abusive and murderous Israel is the more criticism it gets, and that criticism is framed as antisemitism and used to justify more Israeli abuses and murderousness with the claim that it’s being done to defend Jews from a hostile world that’s out to get them.
This will happen over and over again until the lesson is learned. There is nothing — literally nothing — that Israel could do which could be criticized in a way that won’t be framed as discriminatory against the Jewish faith by supporters of the Zionist state. As long as the “criticism of Israel is antisemitism” narrative continues to have traction, it will be weaponized in this self-reinforcing feedback loop to justify more and more atrocities and abusiveness. - Caitlin Johnstone

 

[toomuchtime_]

The entire ICJ opinion can be found here - it's worth reading every page if one has time.

Here a few snippets I extracted:

and

Yes, and no basis in international law. All the items the ICJ cites come from the Geneva Conventions which apply only to relations between signatories to the Conventions and so, if they had any application at all they would apply to relations between Israel and Jordan, but they have a peace treaty so there is no legitimate basis for citing these items.

For example,
In international law, a territory is considered “occupied” when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.

https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/occupied-territory/#:~:text=In%20international%20law%2C%20a%20territory,end%20of%20the%20nineteenth%20century.

But Israel took control of the West Bank after Jordan abandoned it, and since Jordan and Israel have a peace treaty, there is no legal basis for calling Israel a hostile power; hence it can't be an occupying power under international law. Israel occupies the West Bank under Israeli law only because Israel has not annexed it.

One cannot even honestly make a case that Israel took the West Bank by force. While Israel was involved in a defensive war with Egypt and Syria, Jordan began shelling Israel and when Israel turned to quiet the shelling, the entire Jordanian army fled across the Jordan River. Israel constructed a defensive line on the west bank of the Jordan River and almost immediately offered to return the land to Jordan - which had no greater claim to it than Israel - in exchange for peace, and when Jordan finally agreed to live in peace with Israel, it didn't want the West Bank back.

The entire ICJ opinion consists of three things: taking terms and rules written about conflicts between signatories to the Conventions out of context to try to justify a political opinion that Israel should leave; cherry picking facts to support that goal; entirely ignoring the real world context which made its decision absurd.

Clear evidence the UN is a failed experiment.

 

[gipper]

Yes I know you, I know your heart, your posts reveal it.

They certainly do. However, my guess is as soon as the truth of Israel’s genocide is exposed to all, she’ll deny she supported it.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Don’t expect civility from her. She’s a Zionist after all. Anyone who opposes Israel’s genocide she labels antisemitic. It’s an old tactic used by ignorant people.

The UN court ruling that Israel is an illegal occupying force will be used to argue that the whole entire world is against Jews and used to justify more abuses and atrocities. That’s the beauty of the “criticism of Israel is antisemitism” narrative: it reinforces itself. The more abusive and murderous Israel is the more criticism it gets, and that criticism is framed as antisemitism and used to justify more Israeli abuses and murderousness with the claim that it’s being done to defend Jews from a hostile world that’s out to get them.
This will happen over and over again until the lesson is learned. There is nothing — literally nothing — that Israel could do which could be criticized in a way that won’t be framed as discriminatory against the Jewish faith by supporters of the Zionist state. As long as the “criticism of Israel is antisemitism” narrative continues to have traction, it will be weaponized in this self-reinforcing feedback loop to justify more and more atrocities and abusiveness. - Caitlin Johnstone

Yes, her words condemn her. She is a participant in genocide, by suppressing truth she is no better than those who lied, those turned away as the Nazi party rose to power.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Can you cite a source for this claim please?

Yes, your post which does not address the ICJ opinion.

 

[gipper]

Yes, her words condemn her. She is a participant in genocide, by suppressing truth she is no better than those who lied, those turned away as the Nazi party rose to power.

Exactly.

It is most disheartening that we as a species have not learned from past mistakes. Many good Germans looked the other way as Jews were rounded up by the Nazis and now, many Americans/Westerns do the same as Israel massacres Palestinians.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Yes, and no basis in international law. All the items the ICJ cites come from the Geneva Conventions which apply only to relations between signatories to the Conventions and so, if they had any application at all they would apply to relations between Israel and Jordan, but they have a peace treaty so there is no legitimate basis for citing these items.

But most states accept and agree with the opinions they expressed, e.g.

The only nations whinning about this are Israel and the United States and so nothing new there.

For example,
In international law, a territory is considered “occupied” when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.

https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/occupied-territory/#:~:text=In%20international%20law%2C%20a%20territory,end%20of%20the%20nineteenth%20century.

But Israel took control of the West Bank after Jordan abandoned it, and since Jordan and Israel have a peace treaty, there is no legal basis for calling Israel a hostile power; hence it can't be an occupying power under international law. Israel occupies the West Bank under Israeli law only because Israel has not annexed it.

One cannot even honestly make a case that Israel took the West Bank by force.

Have you ever heard of Holocaust denial? that too involves making outlandish claims and dismissing reality.

While Israel was involved in a defensive war with Egypt and Syria, Jordan began shelling Israel and when Israel turned to quiet the shelling, the entire Jordanian army fled across the Jordan River. Israel constructed a defensive line on the west bank of the Jordan River and almost immediately offered to return the land to Jordan - which had no greater claim to it than Israel - in exchange for peace, and when Jordan finally agreed to live in peace with Israel, it didn't want the West Bank back.

The entire ICJ opinion consists of three things: taking terms and rules written about conflicts between signatories to the Conventions out of context to try to justify a political opinion that Israel should leave; cherry picking facts to support that goal; entirely ignoring the real world context which made its decision absurd.

This is your opinion on their opinion. If you were a Judge in the ICJ it might have some value but outside of that it is vapor.

Clear evidence the UN is a failed experiment.

So your opinion on the court's opinion somehow proves that the UN is a "failed experiment"?

 

[expat500]

Yes I know you, I know your heart, your posts reveal it.

I’ve heard all this tripe before.

 

[gipper]

I’ve heard all this tripe before.

But learned nothing.

 

[Lisa558]

I have no idea where you found the 1%, I suppose you just plucked it out of thin air.

View attachment 982533

So, how a non-Jew who shares views with at least 25% of all Jews, can be accused of being antisemitic, escapes me, it is a terrible thing to say to me, it is in fact repugnant to speak to me in that way, but it is typical of xenophobes be they gentile or Jewish.

We already know that many the secular Jews, who care more about liberalism than growing antisemitism, are the Ds. Many of them are young, and misguided, at best. There is no genocide, and there is no apartheid. These are antisemitic LIES that young radical Jews have bought into, because they don’t know any better.

They are the idiots marching along with the Jew-haters at college camouses. But just you watch: and will be the first screaming to make Aliyah when the antisemites like you make things even worse for them here in America.

And you know what is really terrible? For one of the antisemitic G posters to create a sock puppet account, and then spew the same venom and show the same photos.

And what site did you get your stats from, G-poster? Why are you standing with the ignorant youth instead of the more mature and intelligent Jews who know what antisemites are capable of?

 

[expat500]

Don’t expect civility from her. She’s a Zionist after all. Anyone who opposes Israel’s genocide she labels antisemitic. It’s an old tactic used by ignorant people.

You’re not exactly an upstanding moral person are you? Slandering people left right and centre. At the same time not having a clue what you are ranting about.

 

[Lisa558]

But most states accept and agree with the opinions they expressed, e.g.

View attachment 982550

The only nations whinning about this are Israel and the United States and so nothing new there.


Have you ever heard of Holocaust denial? that too involves making outlandish claims and dismissing reality.

This is your opinion on their opinion. If you were a Judge in the ICJ it might have some value but outside of that it is vapor.

So your opinion on the court's opinion somehow proves that the UN is a "failed experiment"?

The United States objects vehemently to the ICJ’s ruling. But because you are a paid poster, reimbursed for spreading venomous lies about Israel, you search for sites that echo your antisemitic positions.

Were you the Jew-hater quoting from Mondoweiss, fhe vehemently antisemitic source?

 

[Lisa558]

You’re not exactly an upstanding moral person are you? Slandering people left right and centre. At the same time not having a clue what you are ranting about.

He’s back to lying about Israel’s “genocide.” Anyone who doesn’t go along with his antisemitic propganda gets the “treatment.”

And look at how he uses the word “Zionist” with contempt and disdain. That’s all part of the propaganda: to paint Jews who support Isrsel’s right to exist and defend itself as bad, evil….Zionists.

BTW, Gipper and Sherlock are likely the same person.

 

[toomuchtime_]

But most states accept and agree with the opinions they expressed, e.g.

View attachment 982550

The only nations whinning about this are Israel and the United States and so nothing new there.


Have you ever heard of Holocaust denial? that too involves making outlandish claims and dismissing reality.

This is your opinion on their opinion. If you were a Judge in the ICJ it might have some value but outside of that it is vapor.

So your opinion on the court's opinion somehow proves that the UN is a "failed experiment"?

I presented arguments to support my conclusions and so far you are unable to refute them.

 

[Lisa558]

Yes, her words condemn her. She is a participant in genocide, by suppressing truth she is no better than those who lied, those turned away as the Nazi party rose to power.

^^^ the antisemite has been reduced to a new low. Now he is not only lying about Israel committing genocide, anyone who supports Israel is participating in the (non-existent) genocide.

YOU WILL NOT WIN YOUR WAR AGAINST THE JEWS.

 

[Lisa558]

I presented arguments to support my conclusions and so far you are unable to refute them.

All he can do is lie about genocide. What he REALLY wants is for the Jews to just sit there while the Muslim monsters commit genocidal massacre, after genocidal massacre until all the Jews are dead - WHICH IS WHAT HAMAS HAS SAID THEIR GOAL IS.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

We already know that many the secular Jews, who care more about liberalism than growing antisemitism, are the Ds. Many of them are young, and misguided, at best. There is no genocide, and there is no apartheid. These are antisemitic LIES that young radical Jews have bought into, because they don’t know any better.

I've quoted the late Hajo Meyer to you, he wasn't young. He grew up in Nazi Germany saw first hand what a racist society looks like. I could cite the Late Lord Kaufmann, who's grandmother was shot in her bed by a German soldier, a man who knew most Israeli Prime Ministers personally, he wasn't young either. I could cite Prof. Noam Chomsky, he's now 95 years old.

So lets not pretend this is some fad that young Jews have embraced. The objections to militant Zionism go back a long way, they predate the creation of the state of Israel.

They are the idiots marching along with the Jew-haters at college camouses. But just you watch: and will be the first screaming to make Aliyah when the antisemites like you make things even worse for them here in America.

Once again, I am not an antisemite, that's an unwarranted and rather cruel personal slur. Simply because I do not share the opinions of some majority of Jews on Israeli politics, does not make a person antisemitic.

And you know what is really terrible? For one of the antisemitic G posters to create a sock puppet account, and then spew the same venom and show the same photos.

I have no idea what a "G poster" is, is it your shorthand for "Gaza"? and what are you speaking about puppets and accounts for?

And what site did you get your stats from, G-poster? Why are you standing with the ignorant youth instead of the more mature and intelligent Jews who know what antisemites are capable of?

Where did I get the Microsoft Bing Copilot data from? er, I got it from Microsoft Bing Copilot as the image clearly shows.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The United States objects vehemently to the ICJ’s ruling. But because you are a paid poster, reimbursed for spreading venomous lies about Israel, you search for sites that echo your antisemitic positions.

Were you the Jew-hater quoting from Mondoweiss, fhe vehemently antisemitic source?

I know the United States objects, I said as much.

What evidence do you have that I am getting paid for expressing my views? please present it, substantiate it or retract it madam.

Which "antisemitic sites" have I cited as a source?

Madam, your own posts, words you choose, personal slurs you make, prove your prejudices, everything you posts makes it clear what you represent.

 

[Lisa558]

I've quoted the late Hajo Meyer to you, he wasn't young. He grew up in Nazi Germany saw first hand what a racist society looks like. I could cite the Late Lord Kaufmann, who's grandmother was shot in her bed by a German soldier, a man who knew most Israeli Prime Ministers personally, he wasn't young either. I could cite Prof. Noam Chomsky, he's now 95 years old.

So lets not pretend this is some fad that young Jews have embraced. The objections to militant Zionism go back a long way, they predate the creation of the state of Israel.

Once again, I am not an antisemite, that's an unwarranted and rather cruel personal slur. Simply because I do not share the opinions of some majority of Jews on Israeli politics, does not make a person antisemitic.

I have no idea what a "G poster" is, is it your shorthand for "Gaza"? and what are you speaking about puppets and accounts for?

Where did I get the Microsoft Bing Copilot data from? er, I got it from Microsoft Bing Copilot as the image clearly shows.

Aren’t you the one who just called me a participant in genocide? I would t complain about name-calling if I were you, Gipper. You are waging a propaganda war against Jews.