CDZ What do American Muslims want?

[dani67]

The points I'd like to look at are:

What do Muslims in AMERICA want?
Are they any different than other religious groups in America?
What does this say about Muslim immigration in America vs other countries?

1. Geography is not germane. Muslims in America want the same thing as Muslims elsewhere want. They read the same Quran. They want slow painful deaths to infidels.

2. To realize the difference, watch the news for a week and then compare atrocities. There will be no reports of Christians for example, slaughtering children at their school desks, or beheading, or lowering people in vats of acid, etc. by militant Christians. Or any other religious group that I know of, except Muslims.

3. It says that we will be thrown into the same state of insanity that is now Germany, France, Poland, Greece.....

It is a UN directive. A Muslim diaspora. And death. There is only one candidate that wants us out of the encroaching UN. Trump 2016

1. Geography is not germane. Muslims in America want the same thing as Muslims elsewhere want. They read the same Quran. They want slow painful deaths to infidels.

christian in America want the same thing as christian elsewhere want. They read the same bible. They want slow painful deaths to infidels.

bible :
1. Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the [holy man] who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged.
2. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.
3. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am God.
4. Fight them until there is no more [disbelief or worshipping of other gods] and worship is for God alone.
more::

30 of the Most Violent Exhortations from the Bible, Torah and Quran

 

[Coyote]

I'm going to start by posting a post I posted in a thread now closed, because it provides the info I need for this thread.

Do American Muslims want Sharia to be the "law of the land"?

Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):

Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.

Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).


The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.


The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.


Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.


Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).

Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.

The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.

Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
On women working outside the home:
Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.


A few other takeaways from the poll:

• Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.

• Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)

Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.

In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.

• On wearing a hijab:

About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.

• On assimilation:

A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.

More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.


When ask, who you are:

When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).

The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.

Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example. They can't have it both ways...

I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.

 

[dani67]

iranian moslem

 

[elektra]

You seem to be confusing Kosher food with Halakha (Jewish religious law).

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

Not at all. It makes a point that you, and those who support you prefer to ignore and that is that western countries have long allowed the use of private religious councils for arbritation and to resolve civil matters. It makes the point that there is little difference between Halakha and Sharia in this context. Most of Sharia, like Halakah is really involved with codes of conduct (like keeping kosher or halal) and conducting civil affairs. The popular assumption is Sharia is nothing more than it's penal code is wrong and that is part of the problem with these arguments. As long as it doesn't violate secular law or constitution I could care less if people voluntarily use it, or Halakah, or the Catholic laws, as a means to settle civil matters. We are a free country.

Great, I get it, instead of simply stating what you know, you play this word game, then denigrate me, insult me, and state that I have a problem, based on eating Kosher food.

I wasn't playing any word games - I was pretty direct. You were making claims that were inaccurate.

But the post and comment was made, do I have a problem of people living under Sharia law in the USA, specifically would I have a problem with people resolving civil differences under sharia law.

You are doing an excellent job avoiding what you stated.

Are you ginog to provide an example of Moslems resolving civil matters under sharia law or will continue to obfuscate the topic you brought up.

I did provide - not specific examples of specific people (did you want that?) - but examples of how it IS applied.

Really? I made claims? Right!

It is obvious you are searching Google and formulating your thoughts as you go. You have no idea what you are talking about, you speak of a civil dispute yet you can not provide one. Will you ever get around to that.

If you favor or allow Sharia law in the United States of America, you are not for, "The rule of the law".

There is only one law, one justice system, and all people of all faiths must abide by our laws, not Sharia Law.

You are a funny guy, I state you avoid what you state, and you follow up mimicking what I pointed out? Nice job in your own OP.

So you have no Civil case as an example? Nothing? Family Law is not Civil Law. But you know that right, because you have been so concise, providing details, and clear examples.

Sharia Law has no business in the USA. You can not have to Justice systems in one country.

 

[irosie91]

I'm going to start by posting a post I posted in a thread now closed, because it provides the info I need for this thread.

Do American Muslims want Sharia to be the "law of the land"?

Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):

Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.

Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).


The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.


The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.


Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.


Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).

Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.

The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.

Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
On women working outside the home:
Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.


A few other takeaways from the poll:

• Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.

• Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)

Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.

In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.

• On wearing a hijab:

About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.

• On assimilation:

A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.

More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.


When ask, who you are:

When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).

The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.

Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example. They can't have it both ways...

I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.

I do not understand the last sentence of the above post. I think intellect is
the driving force in the interpretation of a writing-----sometimes called COGNITION

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I'm going to start by posting a post I posted in a thread now closed, because it provides the info I need for this thread.

Do American Muslims want Sharia to be the "law of the land"?

Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):

Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.

Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).


The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.


The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.


Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.


Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).

Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.

The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.

Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
On women working outside the home:
Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.


A few other takeaways from the poll:

• Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.

• Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)

Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.

In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.

• On wearing a hijab:

About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.

• On assimilation:

A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.

More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.


When ask, who you are:

When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).

The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.

Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example. They can't have it both ways...

I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.

Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old. The "old laws" were mostly consisting of dietary and ceremonial law and were meant for the Jews,not the Gentiles. Many people confuse the Old and New Testaments with the Old and New Covenants, they are two different things

 

[Arianrhod]

If this is not a claim:

Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

What is it?

Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old.

Really? Where? Oh, you mean Paul. In your view, does his word supersede the word of Jesus in the Gospels? If that's your belief, you're not a Christian, you're a Paulist.

 

[Syriusly]

I do not think it is as straightforward as you would like us to believe coyote.

Muslim divorce settlements in non-Muslim countries

For example, let’s review this real life divorce case of a Muslim couple – A US court ruled in favor of the husband that his ex-wife be granted only the Mahr (a few hundred dollars) that was agreed to at their marriage in their home country precluding her from any portion of her husband’s property and wealth in the US.

In a foreign country with $200 - $500 to your name.

The complication there is with marriages made in another country- which laws are enforced when it comes to divorce?>

 

[Coyote]

Did anyone say Muslims in America shouldn't be allowed to eat halal?

Yes.

I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

How would you know?

It was a question, asked. I answered, if you have no problem with Moslem men living by a law of a foreign land, you have no business being a citizen of the USA

 

[irosie91]

If this is not a claim:

Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

What is it?

Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old.

Really? Where? Oh, you mean Paul. In your view, does his word supersede the word of Jesus in the Gospels? If that's your belief, you're not a Christian, you're a Paulist.

my understanding of PAUL stuff that does show up IN THE NT-----is
INSPIRED according to Christian theologians

 

[Syriusly]

I'm going to start by posting a post I posted in a thread now closed, because it provides the info I need for this thread.

Do American Muslims want Sharia to be the "law of the land"?

Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):

Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.

Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).


The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.


The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.


Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.


Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).

Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.

The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.

Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
On women working outside the home:
Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.


A few other takeaways from the poll:

• Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.

• Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)

Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.

In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.

• On wearing a hijab:

About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.

• On assimilation:

A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.

More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.


When ask, who you are:

When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).

The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.

Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

Which Christians don't believe in the 10 Commandments?

 

[irosie91]

Did anyone say Muslims in America shouldn't be allowed to eat halal?

Yes.

other than persons who object to the SLAUGHTER methods of "halal" and "kosher"---who is "anti-halal"?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

If this is not a claim:

Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

What is it?

Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old.

Really? Where? Oh, you mean Paul. In your view, does his word supersede the word of Jesus in the Gospels? If that's your belief, you're not a Christian, you're a Paulist.

It's God's word...I'm so sick of hearing "Oh you mean Paul"....it's worn out, never works and a deflection

 

[Syriusly]

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

Not at all. It makes a point that you, and those who support you prefer to ignore and that is that western countries have long allowed the use of private religious councils for arbritation and to resolve civil matters. It makes the point that there is little difference between Halakha and Sharia in this context. Most of Sharia, like Halakah is really involved with codes of conduct (like keeping kosher or halal) and conducting civil affairs. The popular assumption is Sharia is nothing more than it's penal code is wrong and that is part of the problem with these arguments. As long as it doesn't violate secular law or constitution I could care less if people voluntarily use it, or Halakah, or the Catholic laws, as a means to settle civil matters. We are a free country.

Great, I get it, instead of simply stating what you know, you play this word game, then denigrate me, insult me, and state that I have a problem, based on eating Kosher food.

I wasn't playing any word games - I was pretty direct. You were making claims that were inaccurate.

But the post and comment was made, do I have a problem of people living under Sharia law in the USA, specifically would I have a problem with people resolving civil differences under sharia law.

You are doing an excellent job avoiding what you stated.

Are you ginog to provide an example of Moslems resolving civil matters under sharia law or will continue to obfuscate the topic you brought up.

If you favor or allow Sharia law in the United States of America, you are not for, "The rule of the law".

There is only one law, one justice system, and all people of all faiths must abide by our laws, not Sharia Law..

So once again we come back to where we started disagreeing with you.

"Only one law"- so you don't believe Jews should follow Jewish law, and that Catholics should follow Catholic Law- or are you just saying that you are applying this to Muslims only?

 

[Syriusly]

I'm going to start by posting a post I posted in a thread now closed, because it provides the info I need for this thread.

Do American Muslims want Sharia to be the "law of the land"?

Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):

Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.

Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).


The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.


The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.


Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.


Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).

Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.

The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.

Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.

Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
On women working outside the home:
Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.


A few other takeaways from the poll:

• Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.

• Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)

Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.

In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.

• On wearing a hijab:

About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.

• On assimilation:

A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.

More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.


When ask, who you are:

When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).

The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.

Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example. They can't have it both ways...

I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.

Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old. The "old laws" were mostly consisting of dietary and ceremonial law and were meant for the Jews,not the Gentiles. Many people confuse the Old and New Testaments with the Old and New Covenants, they are two different things

What are the 10 Commandments?

Where is homosexuality condemned in the New Testament? And by condemning, i mean like how Jesus condemns divorce and remarriage.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example. They can't have it both ways...

I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.

Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old. The "old laws" were mostly consisting of dietary and ceremonial law and were meant for the Jews,not the Gentiles. Many people confuse the Old and New Testaments with the Old and New Covenants, they are two different things

What are the 10 Commandments?

Where is homosexuality condemned in the New Testament? And by condemning, i mean like how Jesus condemns divorce and remarriage.

Romans 1:18-32 is a start there are other verses as well

 

[Arianrhod]

Saying there's little difference between Christians and Muslims is delusional at best. Case in point is the difference between what defines being a good Muslim and what defines being a good Christian. There in lies the difference.

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example. They can't have it both ways...

I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.

Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old. The "old laws" were mostly consisting of dietary and ceremonial law and were meant for the Jews,not the Gentiles. Many people confuse the Old and New Testaments with the Old and New Covenants, they are two different things

What are the 10 Commandments?

Where is homosexuality condemned in the New Testament? And by condemning, i mean like how Jesus condemns divorce and remarriage.

Jesus himself never said Word One about homosexuality. Paul came along without ever having met Jesus and claimed "Well, what He meant to say was..."

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Yet, a comprehensive poll of American Muslims and Christians says exactly that.

What is a good Muslim?

Yet the New Testament and Koran are totally different. You seem to want lump Christians and Jews together. To a Christian, the Old Testament is a historical document that spells out the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Christianity doesn't believe in much of anything a Muslim does, especially when it comes to ownership of women and treatment of infidels. Not to mention much of Islamic teachings are different depending on which religious sect you follow. They have several other writings not in the Koran, but in the Hadith.

The thing is - Christians never rejected the OT and they still reference it and use it. The relationship of Christians to the OT is confusing. They cite it as the "Old Law", they claim Jesus came to fulfill it and in the process relieved them of some of the laws such as the dietary requirements. Yet, Christians often cite OT laws related to homosexuality for example. They can't have it both ways...

I think culture is the driving factor in how the Koran and Hadiths are followed and interpreted.

Homosexuality is condemned in the New testament as well as the Old. The "old laws" were mostly consisting of dietary and ceremonial law and were meant for the Jews,not the Gentiles. Many people confuse the Old and New Testaments with the Old and New Covenants, they are two different things

What are the 10 Commandments?

Where is homosexuality condemned in the New Testament? And by condemning, i mean like how Jesus condemns divorce and remarriage.

Jesus himself never said Word One about homosexuality. Paul came along without ever having met Jesus and claimed "Well, what He meant to say was..."

He never said anything about murder or pedophiles either, you think He is OK with it?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Paul was canonical, which meant his writings, teachings and letters were scripture worthy. Canonical means "measures up to being God's revealed word"

 

[Coyote]

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

Not at all. It makes a point that you, and those who support you prefer to ignore and that is that western countries have long allowed the use of private religious councils for arbritation and to resolve civil matters. It makes the point that there is little difference between Halakha and Sharia in this context. Most of Sharia, like Halakah is really involved with codes of conduct (like keeping kosher or halal) and conducting civil affairs. The popular assumption is Sharia is nothing more than it's penal code is wrong and that is part of the problem with these arguments. As long as it doesn't violate secular law or constitution I could care less if people voluntarily use it, or Halakah, or the Catholic laws, as a means to settle civil matters. We are a free country.

Great, I get it, instead of simply stating what you know, you play this word game, then denigrate me, insult me, and state that I have a problem, based on eating Kosher food.

I wasn't playing any word games - I was pretty direct. You were making claims that were inaccurate.

But the post and comment was made, do I have a problem of people living under Sharia law in the USA, specifically would I have a problem with people resolving civil differences under sharia law.

You are doing an excellent job avoiding what you stated.

Are you ginog to provide an example of Moslems resolving civil matters under sharia law or will continue to obfuscate the topic you brought up.

I did provide - not specific examples of specific people (did you want that?) - but examples of how it IS applied.

Really? I made claims? Right!

It is obvious you are searching Google and formulating your thoughts as you go. You have no idea what you are talking about, you speak of a civil dispute yet you can not provide one. Will you ever get around to that.

Civil disputes include contracts, marriages, divorces, ownership issues and property issues.

If you favor or allow Sharia law in the United States of America, you are not for, "The rule of the law".

There is only one law, one justice system, and all people of all faiths must abide by our laws, not Sharia Law.

If that is the case then you are going to make a lot of things illegal - for example kosher and halal will both be illegal because they are following religious law. You will have to outlaw all religious marriages - ministers, priests, rabbis etc can no longer perform marriages only the state can. Do you actually understand what you are calling for?

You are a funny guy, I state you avoid what you state, and you follow up mimicking what I pointed out? Nice job in your own OP.

You aren't making much sense.

So you have no Civil case as an example? Nothing? Family Law is not Civil Law. But you know that right, because you have been so concise, providing details, and clear examples.

Sharia Law has no business in the USA. You can not have to Justice systems in one country.

What exactly are you asking for? Specific court cases? You skipped over that question.

Civil law covers contracts, wills, property etc. Family law falls under Civil Law.

If you want me to provide concise information, you need to ask concise questions, not rambling about all over the post.