Zone1 What do Catholics and (most) Protestants have in common? Anything?

[Carl in Michigan]

What do Catholics and (most) Protestants have in common? Anything?

Tons. They both believe a lot of myths

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Any allegedly Christian "church" is Protestant if it protests the Catholic Church

Mostly true but not all. JWs, Mormons, Sabbath keeping Church of God etc. "We" have no past with you

 

[ding]

Tons. They both believe a lot of myths

Such as?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Such as?

Really?
They worship on Sunday
They keep the pagan holidays and not God's Holy Days
They believe heaven is the reward of the saved
They believe hell is a place of neverending torture
They eat pork, rabbit, snails, shellfish etc
They believe in the immortal soul
They believe in the pagan trinity doctrine

There's more, but this is enough if you want to know what Protestants kept when they left the mother church

 

[ding]

Really?
They worship on Sunday
They keep the pagan holidays and not God's Holy Days
They believe heaven is the reward of the saved
They believe hell is a place of neverending torture
They eat pork, rabbit, snails, shellfish etc
They believe in the immortal soul
They believe in the pagan trinity doctrine

There's more, but this is enough if you want to know what Protestants kept when they left the mother church

That doesn’t quite come close (read not even close) to meeting the definition of myths. Maybe what you meant to say was practices instead of myths. But please do tell me what I should believe as it seems that you believe you speak for God.

 

[ding]

Personally I hate uniformity. It’s not natural. We are all unique individuals who should worship God in our own unique way. Birds of a feather flock together for logical reasons. God loves logic. He created it.

 

[zaangalewa]

Any allegedly Christian "church" is Protestant if it protests the Catholic Church

A negative actions (here "protest" on reason of self-definition and distinction) is not able to be called a Christian motivation. All Christians are per se catholic - but no necessarily Catholics.

 

[zaangalewa]

... He's no longer a helpless baby sleeping in a manger ...

Are you sure?




Ich steh an deiner Krippe hier,
o Jesu, du mein Leben;
ich komme, bring und schenke dir,
was du mir hast gegeben.
Nimm hin, es ist mein Geist und Sinn,
Herz, Seel und Mut, nimm alles hin
und laß dir’s wohlgefallen.

Da ich noch nicht geboren war,
da bist du mir geboren
und hast mich dir zu eigen gar,
eh ich dich kannt, erkoren.
Eh ich durch deine Hand gemacht,
da hast du schon bei dir bedacht,
wie du mein wolltest werden.

Ich lag in tiefster Todesnacht,
du warest meine Sonne,
die Sonne, die mir zugebracht
Licht, Leben, Freud und Wonne.
O Sonne, die das werte Licht
des Glaubens in mir zugericht’,
wie schön sind deine Strahlen!

Ich sehe dich mit Freuden an
und kann mich nicht satt sehen;
und weil ich nun nichts weiter kann,
bleib ich anbetend stehen.
O daß mein Sinn ein Abgrund wär
und meine Seel ein weites Meer,
daß ich dich möchte fassen!

Original text from 1653

 

[zaangalewa]

Correct. They're a heretic cult. Arianism.

The Arians never had been "heretics". They just simple did not think that Jesus had been god on his own. This had been just simple a new idea for very most of them. And by the way: Also today many Christians do not believe this. I guess also today exist no Christian who had not a phase in the own life when they did not trust into this imagination - before someone is able to accept this. It needs not only some knowledge to understand the concept "triune god" - it needs also a salt of grain of wisdom directly from god to be able to believe in this concept. But if someone suffers a lack of belief then this makes someone perhaps more helpless but not to a heretics. I guess this heretic nonsense came in this case from Augustinus - but Augustinus was not only a brilliant philosopher - he was on the other side also very wrong in lots of cases with his ideas about other human beings who did not share his own points of view.

 

[BS Filter]

The Arians never had been "heretics". They just simple did not think that Jesus had been god on his own. This had been just simple a new idea for very most of them. And by the way: Also today many Christians do not believe this. I guess also today exist no Christian who had not a phase in the own life when they did not trust into this imagination - before someone is able to accept this. It needs not only some knowledge to understand the concept "triune god" - it needs also a salt of grain of wisdom directly from god to be able to believe in this concept. But if someone suffers a lack of belief then this makes someone perhaps more helpless but not to a heretics. I guess this heretic nonsense came in this case from Augustinus - but Augustinus was not only a brilliant philosopher - he was on the other side also very wrong in lots of cases with his ideas about other human beings who did not share his own points of view.

Do you believe God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

 

[zaangalewa]

Do you believe God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat Catholicam fidem: Quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternum peribit. Fides autem Catholica haec est: ut unum Deum in Trinitate, et Trinitatem in unitate veneremur. Neque confundentes personas, neque substantiam separantes. Alia est enim persona Patris alia Filii, alia Spiritus Sancti: Sed Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti una est divinitas, aequalis gloria, coeterna maiestas. Qualis Pater, talis Filius, talis [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Increatus Pater, increatus Filius, increatus [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Immensus Pater, immensus Filius, immensus [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Aeternus Pater, aeternus Filius, aeternus [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres aeterni, sed unus aeternus. Sicut non tres increati, nec tres immensi, sed unus increatus, et unus immensus. Similiter omnipotens Pater, omnipotens Filius, omnipotens [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres omnipotentes, sed unus omnipotens. Ita Deus Pater, Deus Filius, Deus [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres dii, sed unus est Deus. Ita Dominus Pater, Dominus Filius, Dominus [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres Domini, sed unus [est] Dominus. Quia, sicut singillatim unamquamque personam Deum ac Dominum confiteri christiana veritate compellimur: Ita tres Deos aut [tres] Dominos dicere Catholica religione prohibemur. Pater a nullo est factus: nec creatus, nec genitus. Filius a Patre solo est: non factus, nec creatus, sed genitus. Spiritus Sanctus a Patre et Filio: non factus, nec creatus, nec genitus, sed procedens. Unus ergo Pater, non tres Patres: unus Filius, non tres Filii: unus Spiritus Sanctus, non tres Spiritus Sancti. Et in hac Trinitate nihil prius aut posterius, nihil maius aut minus: Sed totae tres personae coaeternae sibi sunt et coaequales. Ita, ut per omnia, sicut iam supra dictum est, et unitas in Trinitate, et Trinitas in unitate veneranda sit. Qui vult ergo salvus esse, ita de Trinitate sentiat.

Sed necessarium est ad aeternam salutem, ut incarnationem quoque Domini nostri Iesu Christi fideliter credat. Est ergo fides recta ut credamus et confiteamur, quia Dominus noster Iesus Christus, Dei Filius, Deus [pariter] et homo est. Deus [est] ex substantia Patris ante saecula genitus: et homo est ex substantia matris in saeculo natus. Perfectus Deus, perfectus homo: ex anima rationali et humana carne subsistens. Aequalis Patri secundum divinitatem: minor Patre secundum humanitatem. Qui licet Deus sit et homo, non duo tamen, sed unus est Christus. Unus autem non conversione divinitatis in carnem, sed assumptione humanitatis in Deum. Unus omnino, non confusione substantiae, sed unitate personae. Nam sicut anima rationalis et caro unus est homo: ita Deus et homo unus est Christus. Qui passus est pro salute nostra: descendit ad inferos: tertia die resurrexit a mortuis. Ascendit ad [in] caelos, sedet ad dexteram [Dei] Patris [omnipotentis]. Inde venturus [est] judicare vivos et mortuos. Ad cujus adventum omnes homines resurgere habent cum corporibus suis; Et reddituri sunt de factis propriis rationem. Et qui bona egerunt, ibunt in vitam aeternam: qui vero mala, in ignem aeternum. Haec est fides Catholica, quam nisi quisque fideliter firmiterque crediderit, salvus esse non poterit.

But nevertheless also today exist people who are not able to believe that a 100% human being like Jesus is also able to be 100% god - what no one makes to an "heretics". Most people who use such an expression are not very familiar with the flow and logic of time. If I am informed well then most Arians became just simple Catholics when they thought for a while about the problems in such contextes. The idiots who had attacked "heretics" in case of the Arians (who had been by the way indeed in many (or most) cases no Arians at all but had only been attacked under this wrong "excuse") are from my point of view much more far from essentials of the Christian religion.

Today many Christians are by the way in many cases in a much more worse situation! They often are not able to believe in god at all in our weird times. But this makes also no one to an heretics who is a member of the church. The believers in god are very well able to understand this people and they try to help this "wounded" people - who are on the other side full of a wonderful hope which is sometimes also able to ashame believers in god. To have to live with a blind soul - but still to be able to live in His love and hope - is this not one of the greatest wonders at all?

 

[BS Filter]

Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat Catholicam fidem: Quam nisi quisque integram inviolatamque servaverit, absque dubio in aeternum peribit. Fides autem Catholica haec est: ut unum Deum in Trinitate, et Trinitatem in unitate veneremur. Neque confundentes personas, neque substantiam separantes. Alia est enim persona Patris alia Filii, alia Spiritus Sancti: Sed Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti una est divinitas, aequalis gloria, coeterna maiestas. Qualis Pater, talis Filius, talis [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Increatus Pater, increatus Filius, increatus [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Immensus Pater, immensus Filius, immensus [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Aeternus Pater, aeternus Filius, aeternus [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres aeterni, sed unus aeternus. Sicut non tres increati, nec tres immensi, sed unus increatus, et unus immensus. Similiter omnipotens Pater, omnipotens Filius, omnipotens [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres omnipotentes, sed unus omnipotens. Ita Deus Pater, Deus Filius, Deus [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres dii, sed unus est Deus. Ita Dominus Pater, Dominus Filius, Dominus [et] Spiritus Sanctus. Et tamen non tres Domini, sed unus [est] Dominus. Quia, sicut singillatim unamquamque personam Deum ac Dominum confiteri christiana veritate compellimur: Ita tres Deos aut [tres] Dominos dicere Catholica religione prohibemur. Pater a nullo est factus: nec creatus, nec genitus. Filius a Patre solo est: non factus, nec creatus, sed genitus. Spiritus Sanctus a Patre et Filio: non factus, nec creatus, nec genitus, sed procedens. Unus ergo Pater, non tres Patres: unus Filius, non tres Filii: unus Spiritus Sanctus, non tres Spiritus Sancti. Et in hac Trinitate nihil prius aut posterius, nihil maius aut minus: Sed totae tres personae coaeternae sibi sunt et coaequales. Ita, ut per omnia, sicut iam supra dictum est, et unitas in Trinitate, et Trinitas in unitate veneranda sit. Qui vult ergo salvus esse, ita de Trinitate sentiat.

Sed necessarium est ad aeternam salutem, ut incarnationem quoque Domini nostri Iesu Christi fideliter credat. Est ergo fides recta ut credamus et confiteamur, quia Dominus noster Iesus Christus, Dei Filius, Deus [pariter] et homo est. Deus [est] ex substantia Patris ante saecula genitus: et homo est ex substantia matris in saeculo natus. Perfectus Deus, perfectus homo: ex anima rationali et humana carne subsistens. Aequalis Patri secundum divinitatem: minor Patre secundum humanitatem. Qui licet Deus sit et homo, non duo tamen, sed unus est Christus. Unus autem non conversione divinitatis in carnem, sed assumptione humanitatis in Deum. Unus omnino, non confusione substantiae, sed unitate personae. Nam sicut anima rationalis et caro unus est homo: ita Deus et homo unus est Christus. Qui passus est pro salute nostra: descendit ad inferos: tertia die resurrexit a mortuis. Ascendit ad [in] caelos, sedet ad dexteram [Dei] Patris [omnipotentis]. Inde venturus [est] judicare vivos et mortuos. Ad cujus adventum omnes homines resurgere habent cum corporibus suis; Et reddituri sunt de factis propriis rationem. Et qui bona egerunt, ibunt in vitam aeternam: qui vero mala, in ignem aeternum. Haec est fides Catholica, quam nisi quisque fideliter firmiterque crediderit, salvus esse non poterit.

Of course.

 

[zaangalewa]

Of course.

Very good answer.

Believe it or not: I understand every word of this text and I agree with it - in sense of the time when it had been written. What doesn't mean I aggree with any form of prosecution in case of belief or any form of aggressions. I do also not know - and I do not even like to know - anything about who goes to hell or to heaven. I am convinced as long as someone lives - and perhaps even longer - everyone has always all chances to reach heaven.

Here a translation of the Athanasian creed in English - what makes the concepts behind this words perhaps not more easy understandable - specially also for modern thinkers who often think they understand what they do not really understand.

-----
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the Catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.
-----

 

[notmyfault2020]

Tons. They both believe a lot of myths

Right. My experiences in life have all been a myth.. In fact, they never happened. I imagined them all...

Please

 

[notmyfault2020]

Correct. They're a heretic cult. Arianism.

If there is only ONE Church established by Christ--and who would say otherwise?

any so called churches that are NOT that Church are heretical

Satan loves mixing truth w/ error. He knows total, blatant error is not going to get him what he wants.. souls in Hell

 

[Zebra]

What do Catholics and (most) Protestants have in common? Anything?

I say:

number five