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Let's get back to the questions I'm trying to address.
Maybe the place to start discussing God's purpose in marriage is with God's purpose for people in general. What is He trying to accomplish with us and our lives, and how does marriage fit into that? I can be certain that the "You changed your hairstyle, so I don't love you any more" sort of attitude some people have doesn't serve that overall purpose, but does "You married him, and you're stuck with him no matter what" serve it? If so, how?
Did I answer your question in any way? ................
Just out of curiosity, do you know what Jesus has to say on the subject?
If not, I can provide you with the scriputures on the matter.
Yes, I do. Do YOU know WHY He said it?
Let's start with what Jesus had to say on the subject of marriage.
Matthew 19:3 The Pharisees also came to him, tempting him, and saying to him, "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said to them, "Have you not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female?
5 And said, "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they two shall become one flesh?"
6 Wherefore they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
7 They said to him, "Why did Moses then command to giving a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 HE said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."
9 "And I say to you, whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committs adultery, and whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery."
10 His disciples say to him, "If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry."
11 But he said to them, "All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given."
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were born from their mother's womb and eunuchs of men, and there be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
So what do you take away from this teaching?
I apologize if I seem like I'm being vague on this topic I introduced. The truth is that I have a million and one thoughts on the subject, and I'm trying to not spit them all out at once and put everyone into philosophical overload. I will have a lot of free time this weekend while I'm out of town, and I will have my laptop with me, so I'm hoping to really explore these questions in some depth with thoughtful people who 1) believe in God, and 2) believe that knowing His will is both possible and important.
All others, PLEASE go find something else to talk about. Really.
Who's 'all others'?
Try not to go too far off the rails in my absence, and I WILL be back.
Let's get back to the questions I'm trying to address.
Maybe the place to start discussing God's purpose in marriage is with God's purpose for people in general. What is He trying to accomplish with us and our lives, and how does marriage fit into that? I can be certain that the "You changed your hairstyle, so I don't love you any more" sort of attitude some people have doesn't serve that overall purpose, but does "You married him, and you're stuck with him no matter what" serve it? If so, how?
Did I answer your question in any way? ................
Well, you've started to address the topic, but I'm looking to get a lot deeper into the things I just asked about.
If there were quick, easy answers to these questions, people wouldn't keep asking them throughout the centuries.
I read your thread about your impending divorce last week but I did not respond. I decided to think about what you had said and pray for God to give you wisdom in seeing what you should do. Now that you have written this thread and asked for my opinion, I'll give it to you. Don't do it. Why? The scriptures say, God hates divorce. Is this going to be easy for you? No. Because you have already set it in mind ( somewhat it appears ) that there is no future with this man. What if, Cecilie, your husband were to discover some patent for a highly profitable item and he suddenly becomes a millionaire. Wasn't the premise of your decision based on your having valued certain things differently? He was not as motivated in this uncertain economy as you - you had perceived this and based your decision somewhat on a changeable fact. Facts change but truth does not.
The truth is you are in a covenant, not a contract. What is Gods will concerning a covenant? It cannot be broken for one. It doesn't have an expiration date. It doesn't change one iota due to sickness, poverty, even infidelity ( truth be known that was because of the hardness of their hearts Moses included that loop hole) and in that covenant you have all provision. Outside of it are variable curses for breaking it. Which is why the Jews didn't break their covenants with God. They knew better. For better or worse, what you are in is a covenant. Not a contract. I'd like to write more but I have to go so I will end here for now. I am continuing to pray for you Cecilie and especially for wisdom because I know that what you are going through is not easy. Before I go let me say that your child (I believe you said was 4 yrs old) is a gift from God. The child is given to both of you to raise, nurture, protect, bring into their destiny by example ( sacrifice ) and that will require both of you being there. - Jeremiah
I apologize if I seem like I'm being vague on this topic I introduced. The truth is that I have a million and one thoughts on the subject, and I'm trying to not spit them all out at once and put everyone into philosophical overload. I will have a lot of free time this weekend while I'm out of town, and I will have my laptop with me, so I'm hoping to really explore these questions in some depth with thoughtful people who 1) believe in God, and 2) believe that knowing His will is both possible and important.
All others, PLEASE go find something else to talk about. Really.
What Does God Really Want From Marriage?
More children to pay tithes. God needs money.
What Does God Really Want From Marriage?
More children to pay tithes. God needs money.
What Does God Really Want From Marriage?
More children to pay tithes. God needs money.
If you aren't going to be serious about an honest question, why bother?
Yes, I do. Do YOU know WHY He said it?
Let's start with what Jesus had to say on the subject of marriage.
Matthew 19:3 The Pharisees also came to him, tempting him, and saying to him, "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said to them, "Have you not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female?
5 And said, "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they two shall become one flesh?"
6 Wherefore they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
7 They said to him, "Why did Moses then command to giving a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 HE said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."
9 "And I say to you, whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committs adultery, and whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery."
10 His disciples say to him, "If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry."
11 But he said to them, "All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given."
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were born from their mother's womb and eunuchs of men, and there be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
So what do you take away from this teaching?
That you not only don't know the answer to my question, you didn't even know it could be asked.
What Does God Really Want From Marriage?
More children to pay tithes. God needs money.
If you aren't going to be serious about an honest question, why bother?
You mean god does not want those tithes, offerings and seed money?
Seems pretty serious to me many billion per year.
pretty serious to the churches too since about 75% of religious programming is geared to raising money.
Let's start with what Jesus had to say on the subject of marriage.
Matthew 19:3 The Pharisees also came to him, tempting him, and saying to him, "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said to them, "Have you not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female?
5 And said, "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they two shall become one flesh?"
6 Wherefore they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."
7 They said to him, "Why did Moses then command to giving a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 HE said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."
9 "And I say to you, whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committs adultery, and whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery."
10 His disciples say to him, "If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry."
11 But he said to them, "All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given."
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were born from their mother's womb and eunuchs of men, and there be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."
So what do you take away from this teaching?
That you not only don't know the answer to my question, you didn't even know it could be asked.
So you want to know WHY Jesus said the things he did?
First of all, Jesus was being tempted once again by the Pharisees. If he took a liberal stance on marriage and made it insignificant, then they would accuse him of destroying the institution God had set in place. However, if he took a rigid stance on marriage and not allowed divorce, they would have accused him of not obeying the Mosaic mandate to be allowed to divorce. The question would be akin to, "Yes or no, have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
Instead, Jesus digs at the root of the issue, which is the heart. The reason God allowed divorce was because of the hardness of the hearts of men and women. He never intended this to happen, however. God had intended marriage for the obvious reasons. It provided an intimate social construct with the means of reproduction. It was by in large the fabric that society hinged upon, which was the family unit. After all, we all crave social interaction and we all crave intimacy and by in large all have a drive to reproduce. Marriage offers a safer environment to conduct these pursuits, assuming both parties have sworn to be loyal to each other.
Now getting back to your issue. I know nothing of your circumstances and it really is none of my business. For all I know you are simply baiting me here like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. However, if not and you are really seeking answers, I would defer to the one with the answers. The real issue here is your relationship with your God. Again, if you work on your heart you have a better chance of salvaging a relationship.
This reminds me of a story I once heard. A woman had converted to Christianity and her husband was against all organized religion and finally forbade her to go to church. This lasted for months until she chose to go to church anyway even though she knew it was against his wishes. So when she got home she found the door dead bolted and could not get into the house, so she took a nap on the porch till morning. In the morning the husband looked out onto the porch and opened the door. The woman awoke and walked right past him and into the kitchen and prepared his favorite breakfast for him. Stunned the man eventually broke down into tears and to make a long story short later converted himself.
Now this does not always work in failed relationships but sometimes it does. The message though is to work on your own heart via your relationship with your God. Even if the other party refuses to change, you have changed. That is all you can do. As a Christian, we should always endevour to seek Jesus in everything we do, because he has all the answers and is what ails our often wicked and hardened hearts. As the good book says, seek the Lord with all your might and everything else will fall into place eventually. However, turn from him and do your own bidding your own way and don't expect to much in the end.
First off, my disclaimers. This is NOT a thread about homosexual relationships. If you want to proselytize either for or against, go start your own thread.
This is also NOT a thread about whether or not you believe in God or think people who do are idiots. If you came in here wanting to post about how there is no God and so no one should care what He wants from marriage, do us all a favor and go fuck yourself now.
As to the reason I AM starting this thread . . .
As many of you are aware, I have decided to end my marriage of 18 years. Despite having asked virtually no one's opinion or input on this decision, I have nevertheless received a deluge of same, nonetheless. While most has simply been of the "I'm sorry for your pain and I wish you the best" variety - for which I am profoundly grateful - many people have felt the need to project their feelings about their own relationships or their parents' divorces or what-have-you onto me, and many others have felt compelled to tell me how I'm going against God's will and committing a sin. It is this last that I wish to discuss.
While I am sure many of you consider my abrupt and abrasive manner and salty speech to be at odds with your personal views of what Christians should be like, I am in fact quite concerned about what God expects from me and what His will for my life is. I gave a great deal of consideration to this before I decided to end my marriage, and I continue to consider it throughout this confusing time.
It has always seemed to me that human beings love to have set rules and routines and procedures to follow for everything, to the point where we create them even where they're not necessary or even counter-productive. Anyone who's ever dealt with a bureaucracy can testify to this. I have often thought that a large part of every organized religion blurs from trying to understand God's will and purpose to trying to turn Christianity into a bureaucracy. (No, this is not a rant against organized religion. It still beats disorganized religion, in my opinion.)
What I hear so little of today, in the morass of "God works in mysterious ways" mysticism that passes for theology, is WHY God gives us rules to live our lives by. The truth is that there is not a single rule of behavior handed down in the Bible that doesn't actually have a purpose for existing, a goal it's trying to achieve, and a consequence it is trying to prevent.
So what is God's purpose in the institution of marriage? And how is it served - if, indeed, it IS served - by the rigid ideology and dogma so many Christians attach to it of "preserve the marriage at all costs"? I'm not saying that the quick and easy "You don't make my toes curl anymore, so I'm outta here" attitude toward marriage that seems so prevalent these days is ideal for Christians or anyone else, but does God really value the institution itself above everything else, simply for its own sake? Or does it, like all other institutions, exist for a purpose that it must serve in order to have value? If so, what is that purpose?
IF a god did exist, how does he decide what a marriage is? His only son and his priests in the Catholic Church are not even allowed to marry, so they shouldn't even have a say on what is going on.
I see this thread as somebody who is questioning their decision and trying to justify it by trying to skirt the tenets of god. In other words, trying to make sense of something that has gone wrong while still trying to marry that with what Christian teachings are saying. IOW, more religious "making the rules up as I go along to meet my own agenda".
Having gotten to know you over the past few years I'm surprised your marraige lasted 18 minutes let alone 18 years. Your ex has just gotten the biggest "Get Out Of Jail Free" card of his life.
What does God want from marriage? A son, doubtless - but He seems to have managed without the legal bit.
