What does the 9th amendment mean to you?

DNAprotection

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Jan 18, 2013
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cali
BACKGROUND
"This action is proceeding on the complaint filed November 4, 2003. Plaintiff alleges that federal government officials have thwarted his attempts to possess, plant, cultivate and use hemp for various reasons, including food, cloth, paper, building materials, and above all for use in his pain management. Although plaintiff filed an application with the Drug Enforcement Agency ("DEA") to grow and use hemp, he claims his application was returned without being processed as incomplete and lacking the filing fee. Plaintiff is currently in possession of cannabis seeds and medical cannabis. After dismissal of his claims under the Fifth, Eighth, Ninth, and Tenth amendments to the Constitution, as well as the Commerce Clause and an Executive Order, the only claim remaining is under the First Amendment and/or RFRA (Religious Freedom and Restoration Act). Plaintiff seeks injunctive relief."


Above is an excerpt from a federal ruling in a case that was claiming that humans have the natural right to possess, plant and cultivate seeds of any kind and that government has no constitutional authority to restrict such activity generally. The case was foremost reaching for the 9th amendment in claim to said natural rights but was also accompanied with other constitutional claims meant as back up arguments in case whatever other claims were dismissed.
The reason for posting this is to examine the 9th amendment to the US constitution which states:



“The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”


I'm wondering what those words mean to you?



The federal judge in the case above ruled that any claim based on a right held within the 9th amen was frivolous and without merit on its face because the 9th amen only exists for judges to use when interpreting the rest of the constitution in adjudicating any particular case.
In other words he said there can be no claim based on the 9th amen of the constitution...and the 9th amen exists only for judges to be used as an interpretive tool.
 
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It assures people that there are rights that members of a free society are entitled to, although neither Madison nor any of the other founding fathers ever stated just what they thought these rights were. Some people believe that they include life, liberty, and property, or the right to pursue happiness. Marijuana is illegal. I do not see how that collaborates with the 9th
 
It assures people that there are rights that members of a free society are entitled to, although neither Madison nor any of the other founding fathers ever stated just what they thought these rights were. Some people believe that they include life, liberty, and property, or the right to pursue happiness. Marijuana is illegal. I do not see how that collaborates with the 9th

Well humans need food and clothes and shelter etc to live right?
So it should follow that one should be born with certain inherent rights to access such by way of the nature they come from and are an inseparable part of right?
So planting seeds for such purposes seems a necessary right for any human imo.
The case above was intending to plant cannabis seeds for food clothes medicine and building materials etc.
If gov can outlaw one kind they can outlaw any kind...have you ever read the transcripts for the 1937 marijuana tax act hearings? quite flimsy and easily reproducible if need be with respect to whatever plant species they might target next.
 
It only means that what is not defined is not regulated. If there is no specific regulation otherwise, anything is legal. Besides, this only applies technically at a federal level.
 
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It only means that what is not defined is not regulated. If there is no specific regulation otherwise, anything is legal. Besides, this only applies technically at a federal level.
The federal level? Do you mean to say that your inherent rights not enumerated specifically in the constitution are only accessible to you somehow at the federal level?
Or maybe your saying there are no inherent rights because gov can decide to 'regulate' anything they choose no matter its effect on someones imaginary rights?
Please clarify...
 
It only means that what is not defined is not regulated. If there is no specific regulation otherwise, anything is legal. Besides, this only applies technically at a federal level.
The federal level? Do you mean to say that your inherent rights not enumerated specifically in the constitution are only accessible to you somehow at the federal level?
Or maybe your saying there are no inherent rights because gov can decide to 'regulate' anything they choose no matter its effect on someones imaginary rights?
Please clarify...

Still hoping for clarification of your response above if you have time.
Also hoping for more input on this amendment as imo it is a key part of the bill of rights especially in these days when our rights seem to be slipping away into the corporate gov abyss.
 
For me one of the most important rights we have is to posses seeds and cultivate them into plants that can then be processed into whatever food, clothes, meds or any other material we may need to live.
I have studied the constitution for all my adult life and can only find two amendments that might be used to protect said rights and one is the 9th, but fed judges say no.
Some counties in cali have now begun an effort to limit abilities under the CUA (or 215) by passing 'land use ordinances' and in our county they passed an ordinance to limit folks to 6 outdoor plants. I just rapped up a civil case at the state superior court level facially challenging the constitutionality of our county's ordinance and the county has won for now and a different county had its like ordinance challenged and now has survived the first filed appeal...bad news for freedom and gardening etc...
What I'm trying to get to though is that this particular judge gives all his rulings orally and then orders them to be transcribed, so when giving his ruling he went on for twenty or more minutes seemingly trying to convince himself more than me with the laundry list of appealable reasoning behind his ruling.
Of course time for rebuttal is over at that point so I could only listen to the ruling.
Of the many things he touched on was what I consider to be an especially precious lower court jewel in that he dared do address my tomato plant analogy and (still waiting on transcript but if memory serves this is almost word for word) stated that 'of course it would be unconstitutional to limit your number of tomato plants and everyone knows that, but people don't kill each other over tomato plants'.
All I can tell you is it took every bit of restraint I had not to speak out saying 'I have the constitutional right to grow a tomato? where in the constitution did you find that? I've been looking for that amendment for years and have yet to find such? So in effect since "everybody knows that" you must be stating that such is a self evident right, is that right? Ok so why then do I not have the same non-enumerated self evident inherent right to grow cannabis?'
Of course another less relevant but none the less obvious response is that if you outlaw tomato plants and folks still want tomatoes then the price would sky rocket just as cannabis and any other thing would, its a simple supply and demand equation.
I was told by a federal judge in another civil case (excerpted for this thread) some years back that we had no constitutional right to grow plants period. That case though was the first of its kind and not sure if a similar case has arisen since then, it was clear at the time that if a barrage of similar cases had come forward simultaneously in different federal districts there might have been a different outcome and at the very least someone would have heard those trees falling in the woods.

As i have filed state and federal cases over my garden you can imagine how excited I am that USMB has a new gardening forum! Maybe this thread in some sense belongs there or we need a 'right to garden' forum lol...
Gardening and Landscaping - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Stay-at-Home Dad Wins Right to Front Yard Vegetable Garden : TreeHugger

Vegetable Garden Brings Criminal Charges in Oak Park, Michigan - ABC News
 
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

IMHO, it is saying that while Jefferson and the rest were saying "We (The Founders/Writers of the Constitution) did our best to out line the rights of the people, it is possible that we missed some. Just because we didn't list it, doesn't mean that that right doesn't exist."

The Judge who said "....the 9th amen only exists for judges to use when interpreting the rest of the constitution in adjudicating any particular case." is, IMHO, ready to be removed from the bench. Either they have gotten too used to that power that exists in that position or they are too ignorant to make these kinds of decisions.
 
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

IMHO, it is saying that while Jefferson and the rest were saying "We (The Founders/Writers of the Constitution) did our best to out line the rights of the people, it is possible that we missed some. Just because we didn't list it, doesn't mean that that right doesn't exist."

The Judge who said "....the 9th amen only exists for judges to use when interpreting the rest of the constitution in adjudicating any particular case." is, IMHO, ready to be removed from the bench. Either they have gotten too used to that power that exists in that position or they are too ignorant to make these kinds of decisions.

Spot on from my view, thanks.
I can only imagine that if the 'farmer' gardeners that signed on to the birth of this country thought their right to garden or plant seeds would ever be in question they would have directly enumerated the accounting for such rights in the bill of rights.
Jefferson thought that if we went to market for essentials in stead of home manufacture that it would be the end of his view of freedom etc (see Jefferson garden book).
He also grew cannabis for many purposes.
 
It assures people that there are rights that members of a free society are entitled to, although neither Madison nor any of the other founding fathers ever stated just what they thought these rights were. Some people believe that they include life, liberty, and property, or the right to pursue happiness. Marijuana is illegal. I do not see how that collaborates with the 9th

Well humans need food and clothes and shelter etc to live right?
So it should follow that one should be born with certain inherent rights to access such by way of the nature they come from and are an inseparable part of right?
So planting seeds for such purposes seems a necessary right for any human imo.
The case above was intending to plant cannabis seeds for food clothes medicine and building materials etc.
If gov can outlaw one kind they can outlaw any kind...have you ever read the transcripts for the 1937 marijuana tax act hearings? quite flimsy and easily reproducible if need be with respect to whatever plant species they might target next.

I understand now
 
I think criminalizing weed is bad policy, but it isn't unconstitutional.
 
I think criminalizing weed is bad policy, but it isn't unconstitutional.

Then should i take that to mean that you agree with the judge about the reason for the 9th amen and that it only exists as a judges interpretive tool rather than as any basis for a cause of action?
 
How about a law saying you can grow marijuana but can't smoke it or ingest it? Does that work for you? Treat it like toad licking. It's not against the law to have a toad. There are a lot of plants that you can grow but can't ingest and it's against the law to process the plant and give to anyone.
 
How about a law saying you can grow marijuana but can't smoke it or ingest it? Does that work for you? Treat it like toad licking. It's not against the law to have a toad. There are a lot of plants that you can grow but can't ingest and it's against the law to process the plant and give to anyone.

Not surprising logic from one who is so non thankful...is your stat showing that you've only 'thanked' 1 time accurate? just curious...
 
It only means that what is not defined is not regulated. If there is no specific regulation otherwise, anything is legal. Besides, this only applies technically at a federal level.
The federal level? Do you mean to say that your inherent rights not enumerated specifically in the constitution are only accessible to you somehow at the federal level?
Or maybe your saying there are no inherent rights because gov can decide to 'regulate' anything they choose no matter its effect on someones imaginary rights?
Please clarify...

I thought it was clear. The constitution prohibits the central government from using it's powers in ways other than specifically legislated.
 
It only means that what is not defined is not regulated. If there is no specific regulation otherwise, anything is legal. Besides, this only applies technically at a federal level.
The federal level? Do you mean to say that your inherent rights not enumerated specifically in the constitution are only accessible to you somehow at the federal level?
Or maybe your saying there are no inherent rights because gov can decide to 'regulate' anything they choose no matter its effect on someones imaginary rights?
Please clarify...

I thought it was clear. The constitution prohibits the central government from using it's powers in ways other than specifically legislated.

Here hold on while i get my keys so i can drive my truck through that...uh...ok so your satisfied with whatever you think you just said?
I dont think just stating that simple sentence settles anything, or rather maybe it does settle everything.
 

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