What firearms are protected by the 2nd Amendment

[old navy]

As much as I am enjoying and learning from this discussion on the U.S. Constitution both as written and interpreted, I must go to the end of the thread to remind you of:

The gun show at the Dulles Expo Center. If you are in driving range, it is today and tomorrow.

I'm in the market for a Ruger LCR to add to my arsenal , lots of ammo, militaria, and a Valentine's gift for the wife.

Good times.

 

[Mini 14]

Hold on, tiger.

What the hell are you talking about.

How about you link to a city/county/state URL enumerating this hand grenade policy for 'most US citizens with the proper license'.

Will a Federal citation suffice?

National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of the many lies told by the BATF when it raided the Waco compound was that because they had LEGALLY bought grenade shells they must have live grenades at the compound. Another lie was that they had purchased the weapons they had illegally. The reality is that several of the members LEGALLY had Firearms license like you have. The BATF canceled their licenses before the raid but did not tell them. The BATF has yet to produce a single weapon modified to full auto from the compound also. Another lie they told.

I haven't truly studied Waco. I don't consider it exemplary of the FBI/ATF's role or their practice. It was an exceptional circumstance, with an exceptional reaction and an exceptional outcome. There is plenty of blame to go around Waco, and politically, it is a debate that cannot be won by either side. Neither handled it properly.

 

[Mini 14]

As much as I am enjoying and learning from this discussion on the U.S. Constitution both as written and interpreted, I must go to the end of the thread to remind you of:

The gun show at the Dulles Expo Center. If you are in driving range, it is today and tomorrow.

I'm in the market for a Ruger LCR to add to my arsenal , lots of ammo, militaria, and a Valentine's gift for the wife.

Good times.

I love a good gun show, but I won't be able to make it Dulles today

The LCR is a really nice revolver. I'm still amazed at how light they are. They sell as fast as we get them.

 

[BrianH]

Let's tell the history correctly. Much of the gunpowder and major crew-served pieces were given to the colonists by the crown. Our forefathers at Lexington Green were beginning to disband as ordered by the officer in charge of the redcoats, when someone fired a musket. When the smoke lifted, more than a dozen patriots were dead or dying on the green and the others were running away.

Having straightened you out, now to the remainder of the story. The redcoats quickly searched the town and found nothing, then marched on Concord. The minutemen disbanded when ordered to do so. A search of the town for colonial leaders and munitions failed. On the march back the British column fought off militia units that were triple the size of the column and were escorted by a relief column from Boston back to safety. The British brought back all of their dead and wounded, all.

The real showdown was fought at Bunker Hill (Breed's Hill), where the American militia fought off two British assaults magnificently before fleeing before the third because their gunpowder had run out. The British lost at BH one of every eleven officers killed in the Revolution. The patriots showed they were willing to fight to the last round. One of four patriots would never return home, a higher death % than even in the Civil War.

Now you have the rest of the story.

Sigh...

1 and 4 Union soldiers were killed or wounded in the Civil War, and 1 and 3 Confederate soldiers were killed or wounded in the civil war. So there you go typing out false "facts" again. As far as the Revolutionary war is concerned, there was approximately 25,000 American deaths during war, only 8,000 of them being battle related.

 

[sparky]

As much as I am enjoying and learning from this discussion on the U.S. Constitution both as written and interpreted, I must go to the end of the thread to remind you of:

The gun show at the Dulles Expo Center. If you are in driving range, it is today and tomorrow.

I'm in the market for a Ruger LCR to add to my arsenal , lots of ammo, militaria, and a Valentine's gift for the wife.

Good times.

(somebody had to....)

 

[BrianH]

I will go with what the founding fathers had. Non-automatic weapons were not around so I doubt if they were around they would make legal assault and automatic weapons. I mean seriously, you don't need an automatic weapon to shoot a deer or to defend yourself.

So the high capacity magazines, assault rifles should be outlawed.

How do you defend yourself against a criminal (who wouldn't follow a law) that has acquired an automatic weapon? Don't get me wrong, I don't own any fully automatic weapons, but the problem is tha the criminals obtain these things and use them.

 

[Mini 14]

I will go with what the founding fathers had. Non-automatic weapons were not around so I doubt if they were around they would make legal assault and automatic weapons. I mean seriously, you don't need an automatic weapon to shoot a deer or to defend yourself.

So the high capacity magazines, assault rifles should be outlawed.

How do you defend yourself against a criminal (who wouldn't follow a law) that has acquired an automatic weapon? Don't get me wrong, I don't own any fully automatic weapons, but the problem is tha the criminals obtain these things and use them.

That was the second question I had when reading JFK's post. The first I had was "What if you are attacked by more than one assailant?"

It is folly to think that banning high cap mags and assault weapons will remove them from our world. That horse is not only out of the barn, he is 9 States away.

On an interesting side-note, we have been selling the crap out of high caps since the Giffords shooting, and supplies are starting to dry up. Knee-jerk reactions on either side of the issue are a gun dealer's best friend

 

[BrianH]

Gun nuts don't even see the words 'well regulated militia' in the amendment. Maybe in colonial times every household was considered a 'militia'? WTF?

They are in effect saying this SINGLE SENTENCE has TWO meanings. Before the comma it's all about 'militias', and after the comma it's all about individual citizens - nothing to do with a group or 'militia'.

On these shaky grounds our wannabe Rambo's feel inclined to buy military hardware and set up the perimeter, against the robbers/home invaders that surely lurk in the darkness, and of course them evil Feds out to put them in reeducation camps. Fuckin lunatics.

Anit-guns nuts don't even see the words, "the right of PEOPLE to keep and bear arms" in the amdendment

 

[sparky]

good point Brian

i'd like an icbm in the yard too then, and all you nasty muslim extreemists better start bowing to the west!

 

[BrianH]

I will go with what the founding fathers had. Non-automatic weapons were not around so I doubt if they were around they would make legal assault and automatic weapons. I mean seriously, you don't need an automatic weapon to shoot a deer or to defend yourself.

So the high capacity magazines, assault rifles should be outlawed.

How do you defend yourself against a criminal (who wouldn't follow a law) that has acquired an automatic weapon? Don't get me wrong, I don't own any fully automatic weapons, but the problem is tha the criminals obtain these things and use them.

That was the second question I had when reading JFK's post. The first I had was "What if you are attacked by more than one assailant?"

It is folly to think that banning high cap mags and assault weapons will remove them from our world. That horse is not only out of the barn, he is 9 States away.

On an interesting side-note, we have been selling the crap out of high caps since the Giffords shooting, and supplies are starting to dry up. Knee-jerk reactions on either side of the issue are a gun dealer's best friend

lol. Getting rid of guns would be like trying to get rid of fire ants

 

[BrianH]

good point Brian

i'd like an icbm in the yard too then, and all you nasty muslim extreemists better start bowing to the west!

I'm not saying that every citizen should personally own mass casualty weapons like an ICMB, a tank, a jet, etc...but I garauntee you if the shit ever hit the fan and we were invaded, the military would be dropping weapons to us. We would all become an instant militia.

 

[sparky]

and we're down to puncuation re; milita?

is that singular or plural then?

am i able to be a sole 'militia' ?

 

[sparky]

good point Brian

i'd like an icbm in the yard too then, and all you nasty muslim extreemists better start bowing to the west!

I'm not saying that every citizen should personally own mass casualty weapons like an ICMB, a tank, a jet, etc...but I garauntee you if the shit ever hit the fan and we were invaded, the military would be dropping weapons to us. We would all become an instant militia.

ever heard of N.I.M.S. Brian?

 

[BrianH]

Okay, but when has the US military been able to defeat a guerrilla force since then?

Nam, Korea, Afghanistan... we can defeat any standing army in the world, but a few jackasses with hand grenades tied to strings and holes in the ground and we don't know that the fuck to do

Not familiar with the Malaysia example, but I doubt Joseph had access to remotely-detonated IEDs and ricin


Then again, they have been preparing for it

I don't think the problem has been the "ability" of the U.S. to defeat a guerilla resistance. I think the problem is that our more recent conflicts have been more politically fought rather than militarily. The last war we actually WON(by definition) against a guerilla force was in the Pacific islands during WWII. The jungle warfare was hardly conventional.

 

[BrianH]

good point Brian

i'd like an icbm in the yard too then, and all you nasty muslim extreemists better start bowing to the west!

I'm not saying that every citizen should personally own mass casualty weapons like an ICMB, a tank, a jet, etc...but I garauntee you if the shit ever hit the fan and we were invaded, the military would be dropping weapons to us. We would all become an instant militia.

ever heard of N.I.M.S. Brian?

National Institute for Metalworking Skills???

Are you speaking of the National Incident Magement System
Or the Near Infrared Mapping Spectromete?

 

[sparky]

National Incident Magement System, Brian, quick of you

i'm sure you're up on the rest of the story.....

 

[Mini 14]

I always find it interesting in these poll threads to actually go back and look at the poll results (yes, I am aware polls can be biased and malformed, especially on USMB

With 44 votes cast, 50% interpret the 2nd to encompass "All of the above" in the OP, and the other 50% have an agenda.

 

[BrianH]

Then how could Congress and the president pass an assault weapons ban? That all I am saying gets reenacted.

The assualt weapons ban is all for show. Short of fully automatic weapons, most "assault" weapons are only labled so for their looks. For example, I have a semi-automatic .22 that fires just as fast and just as many rounds as my AR15. My AR looks like a military weapon. My .22 has woods stock and looks like hunting rifle. And considering both throw about the same size piece of lead at a target, they're virtually the same gun. The only difference is that the AR round has more velocity and a further range. There are semi-automatic hunting rifles that can do the same, if not more, damage than some of the "assault" type firearms that the media screams about. It's really funny when you see the media reporting a firearm death. They'll post a picture of a handgun or a assualt rifle and then report that the crime was committed with a 20gauge or a .22.

 

[BrianH]

National Incident Magement System, Brian, quick of you

i'm sure you're up on the rest of the story.....

Yes Yes, I try to keep up to date on these things...
The problem is that I don't see "invasion" on their list of potential disasters...

 

[Mini 14]

Then how could Congress and the president pass an assault weapons ban? That all I am saying gets reenacted.

The assualt weapons ban is all for show. Short of fully automatic weapons, most "assault" weapons are only labled so for their looks. For example, I have a semi-automatic .22 that fires just as fast and just as many rounds as my AR15. My AR looks like a military weapon. My .22 has woods stock and looks like hunting rifle. And considering both throw about the same size piece of lead at a target, they're virtually the same gun. The only difference is that the AR round has more velocity and a further range. There are semi-automatic hunting rifles that can do the same, if not more, damage than some of the "assault" type firearms that the media screams about. It's really funny when you see the media reporting a firearm death. They'll post a picture of a handgun or a assualt rifle and then report that the crime was committed with a 20gauge or a .22.

I don't know the stats, but in "non-military" environments, I would be surprised if the .22 hasn't been responsible for more deaths than any other bullet ever made.

Even if an assault weapons ban is brought back, there are so many semi-autos already out there it won't matter at all. I'm still using the same semi-autos I had when Clinton enacted the ban (ESPECIALLY the same Mini 14 The ban was another "great moment in gun dealer history." Sales of semi autos sky-rocketed then, and when the ban was lifted, and they will again if similar legislation is ever enacted again (many of us don't care if a gun is "new" or not. In fact, I prefer older, "distinguished" firearms and vehicles