What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Flopper]

Hate to break your bubble, but Mexico does not send these people to the US. Although Mexico is a lot tougher on illegals than we are, a lot get through and they probably don't do much to stop them.

Mexico could certainly do a better job stopping these people in their country so they do not reach our boarder. However, why should they do that? Exactly what is the US doing for Mexico other than insulting and threatening them daily. US Mexican relations are the worst they been in decades, thanks to Trump so I certainly wouldn't expect any help from them on immigration or drug enforcement.

Boy, are you ever mixed up. Sheeesh!

1. Mexico has BEEN sending these illegals to us for decades. Their remittances has been Mexico's # 1 source of income, and their presidents have openy bragged about it.

Vicente Fox Says Remittances Largest Source Of Revenue Since 2003, Gloats At Getting Illegals And Matricula Consular Into US : Diggers Realm

2. Mexico has sent illegals here with published guidebooks for migrants, showing them how to evade US immigration authorities.

View attachment 197559

http://eagleforum.org/topics/amnesty/Mexican-Guidebook.pdf

3. Mexico should no send their migrants here because they are engaging in 21st century IMPERIALISM, in which their people come here, steal millions of jobs, and extract (last report) $28 Billion/year out of our economy, which is re-inserted (by wired remittances) into THEIR economy. International burglary.
Can I come to your house and remove your wealth (TV, computers, etc) and then re-insert them into my house ? You wouldn't mind ? OK, I'll be right over.

3. US Mexican relations are NOT the worst they been in decades. Under the last 6 presidents, Mexico has been robbing us blind. That's not good relations. Only difference now, is that Trump is making them be accountable on it. If they don't like it, tough. They're lucky we haven't attacked them militarily (which is still an option)

4. Of course you wouldn't expect help from them. Would you expect help from somebody who burglarizes you house, while you're sleeping ?

This trash does not deserve a reply. It's alt-right propaganda and false news which is what you get from the links like Eagle Forum and Diggers Realm.

The Mexican Manual for Crossing the boarder, "Counselor Protection Guide" was published 14 years ago when Mexicans were flowing across the boarder at a rate of 500,000 a year, over twice what it is today). In 2000 to 2005, 300 to 500 people/yr were dying at or near the boarder crossings. US boarder enforcement was totally inadequate. 90% of the boarder was protected only by barbed wire fencing. Boarder Patrol Agents numbered less than 4,000 compared to the 19,000 today. Large US farms were advertising in Mexico for field hands promising wages five times what they were earning. This is the context of period when the pamphlet was written. It should also be noted that the pamphlet was available at US Consulates.

The purpose of pamphlet, "Counselor Protection Guide" was written to save lives, warn immigrants about dangers of crossing. However, for those who had decided to make the attempt there was life saving advice and instructions as to how to conduct yourself in the US. The pamphlet begins:

"Dear fellow citizen:
This guide tries to provide you with some practical advice that may be useful to you in case you have made the difficult decision to seek new work opportunities outside of your own country.

The safe way of entering another country is by first obtaining your passport, which is issued by the Delegations of the Secretariat of Foreign Relations, and your visa, which you request at the Embassy or Consulate of the country to where you wish to travel."

The pamphlet is 29 pages, half of which is filled with warnings of the dangers of crossing and alien smugglers. It warns of consequences of not having legal documentation. The remainder of the pamphlet advises what to do and not to do in US such as never run from the boarder patrol, never lie to any immigration agents, never claim a false nationality, never resist arrest, never carry false documents, never carry a weapon, never drive without a drivers license etc.

I think this pamphlet is far more likely to discourage illegal boarder crossing than encourage them and would likely help save lives. You be the judge.
Mexico's Official "Guide For The Mexican Migrant" | www.dallas.org
A Mexican Manual for Illegal Migrants Upsets Some in U.S.
Mexico–United States barrier - Wikipedia
Illegal Immigration on Decline, Report Finds

 

[francoHFW]

You are GOP and our ID cards are a joke thanks to the GOP d u h.

So what's your solution for the cards ? (note: I've lost count how many times I've asked you this)

Also, it is the GOP who is FOR VOTER ID. It's the Democrats who oppose it. We all know that.

People prove their citizenship when they register. It is a phony crisis. The only two illegal voters caught were for Trump LOL.

The solution is computer chips. Could also be used 4 voter ID and medical history if we had good health care.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How high is the human cost left behind in the countries they flee from?...Why not work and fight to improve the conditions in Central and South America? Why not ease the pain of corruption in their birth place?...why not stop being a stop gab relief valve enabling corruption to continue from wens the migrants have fled?
Compassion comes with a price for the very ones we are compassionate over....but I guess you sleep well after patting yourself on the back....like a good liberal.....

Why didnt your ancesters stay and improve the country the fled from? Oh ya...double standards eh?

It's sad you can't distinguish between criminals who traffic humans back and forth across the border and legitimate refugees..or recognize the huge amount of suffering that is caused to those refugees by the people who smuggle other people...who you insist we protect..while whining that we try to protect the children they exploit and abuse at teh same time.



And legitimate refugees.

Explain to me how a policy that confiscates 100% of the children makes that distinction?

I will wait.

When are you going to get through your head that the federal courts say a child can't be detained more than 9 days. The courts are dictating the removal of children, not the administration.


.

Removal of children to where? The streets? back home to their home countries where they belong? in 9 days. Ok.

Foster care, if they have no relatives in the country legally.

And don't holler at us about it. It wasn't our idea.

 

[Natural Citizen]

You are GOP and our ID cards are a joke thanks to the GOP d u h.

So what's your solution for the cards ? (note: I've lost count how many times I've asked you this)

Also, it is the GOP who is FOR VOTER ID. It's the Democrats who oppose it. We all know that.

I'm okay with State ID, but we don't want a national ID card.

The GOP is actually moving in that direction. That's what the whole voter ID thing is about except their base is too shallow to realize it. The humor of it is it'll give the illegal immigrants a national ID card, too.

Worse yet, a national ID card is a contradiction of what a free society is all about.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The solution is computer chips. Could also be used 4 voter ID and medical history if we had good health care.

Paperz pleez...

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why didnt your ancesters stay and improve the country the fled from? Oh ya...double standards eh?

It's sad you can't distinguish between criminals who traffic humans back and forth across the border and legitimate refugees..or recognize the huge amount of suffering that is caused to those refugees by the people who smuggle other people...who you insist we protect..while whining that we try to protect the children they exploit and abuse at teh same time.



And legitimate refugees.

Explain to me how a policy that confiscates 100% of the children makes that distinction?

I will wait.

When are you going to get through your head that the federal courts say a child can't be detained more than 9 days. The courts are dictating the removal of children, not the administration.


.

Removal of children to where? The streets? back home to their home countries where they belong? in 9 days. Ok.

I never saw the 9 day rule but I'm sure there must be one. Children who accompany parents to detention are either held with parents in a family detention center or they're separated. Currently the administration opts to separate the parents and their children.

The children are turned over to US Health and Human Services who keep them until they are turned over to a foster care agency for placement. In foster care, they are often moved from family to family. Recently it was reported that DHS was unable to determine the whereabouts of nearly 1500 kids. This means the parents will likely be deported without their kids under the Trump zero tolerance policy.

The administration doesn't "opt" for anything. The law says that children cannot be detained longer than 5 days, unless there's a huge backlog of cases, in which case it can be extended to 20 days, but that's it. The administration has no choice, unless you want President Trump to act like King Trump and simply rewrite the law himself (as Obama did).

This is NOT "Trump's policy". HIS policy is not to use this as an excuse to turn the adults loose and let them wander away and vanish.

As for "1500 missing kids", you really need to stop getting your "news" from social media. HHS reported that it made follow-up calls to check on the kids, and about 1500 of them couldn't be reached by phone and their guardians didn't call back. Do you usually overreact and assume someone is "missing" if they don't answer the phone?

 

[Cecilie1200]

They and blacks are natural Republicans but they know the GOP is full of racists and bigots. Tough luck.

It is perplexing. They haven't won a popular vote since 2004 and haven't won a popular vote when they were not the incumbent since 1988. As Hispanic immigrants move from the South up into the northern reaches of the country (Where "we don't get many Hispanics" as the INS guy put it before he detained two women in Montana if memory serves), the carefully gerrymandered districts become vulnerable.

Whether the Democrats can hold on to the Hispanic vote is another question all together--nobody snatches defeat from the jaws of victory like a DEM. But the GOP is not doing itself any favors.

So your suggestion is to just surrender.

Perhaps not be a total prick

Support for protecting your borders is being a total prick?

A hard and fast policy of Ripping kids from their parents is

Well then, perhaps LEFTISTS shouldn't have been total pricks and insisted on it.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The solution is computer chips. Could also be used 4 voter ID and medical history if we had good health care.

The funny part about it is this is preceisely where the GOP is taking us.

 

[francoHFW]

It is perplexing. They haven't won a popular vote since 2004 and haven't won a popular vote when they were not the incumbent since 1988. As Hispanic immigrants move from the South up into the northern reaches of the country (Where "we don't get many Hispanics" as the INS guy put it before he detained two women in Montana if memory serves), the carefully gerrymandered districts become vulnerable.

Whether the Democrats can hold on to the Hispanic vote is another question all together--nobody snatches defeat from the jaws of victory like a DEM. But the GOP is not doing itself any favors.

So your suggestion is to just surrender.

Perhaps not be a total prick

Support for protecting your borders is being a total prick?

A hard and fast policy of Ripping kids from their parents is

Well then, perhaps LEFTISTS shouldn't have been total pricks and insisted on it.

Link?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

None of this stuff would be an issue if the Latin American Socialists were not destroying their own countries and driving their populations into flight.

Honduras which is where most of the asylum seekers are coming from is a democratic republic like the US but the leadership is far right. Honduras is a great example what can happen in a poor country under far right conservative leadership. The government, the national and local police are so corrupt it's hard to say whether the gangs or the police are worse.

The most recent numbers available actually show that 80% of refugees seeking asylum in the US come from Africa.

 

[francoHFW]

The solution is computer chips. Could also be used 4 voter ID and medical history if we had good health care.

The funny part about it is this is preceisely where the GOP is taking us.

they have been fighting it so long obviously they need to be for it 4 things to change... That is typically how progress happens... The GOP finally stops obstructing and then takes credit LOL. Thank you scumbag GOP and silly dupes....

 

[francoHFW]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

None of this stuff would be an issue if the Latin American Socialists were not destroying their own countries and driving their populations into flight.

Honduras which is where most of the asylum seekers are coming from is a democratic republic like the US but the leadership is far right. Honduras is a great example what can happen in a poor country under far right conservative leadership. The government, the national and local police are so corrupt it's hard to say whether the gangs or the police are worse.

The most recent numbers available actually show that 80% of refugees seeking asylum in the US come from Africa.

Link?

 

[francoHFW]

The solution is computer chips. Could also be used 4 voter ID and medical history if we had good health care.

Paperz pleez...

We already have driver's licenses that are close. Of course your attitude is typical after decades of the scumbag GOP brainwashing...

 

[Natural Citizen]

The solution is computer chips. Could also be used 4 voter ID and medical history if we had good health care.

The funny part about it is this is preceisely where the GOP is taking us.

they have been fighting it so long obviously they need to be for things to change... That is typically how progress happens... The GOP finally stops obstructing and then takes credit LOL. Thank you scumbag GOP and silly dupes....

Courtesy of the GOP.....lolol.

H.R.4760 gives DACA recipients a 3-year renewable legal status while establishing a mandatory national identification system that would require every American to carry this new card which cable capable of carrying biometric data such as fingerprints and retina scans. If implemented, this card could be used as a tracking device, and it would be required to hold a job, open a bank account, or get on a plane.

• Allows federal bureaucrats to include biometric identification information on the card, potentially even including fingerprints, retinal scans, or scans of veins on the back of hands, which could easily be used as a tracking device.
• It would be required for all US workers, regardless of place of birth, making it illegal for anyone to hold a job in the US who doesn’t obtain an ID card.
• Requires all employers to purchase an “ID scanner” to verify the ID cards with the federal government. Every time any citizen applies for a job, the government would know—and you can bet it’s only a matter of time until “ID scans” will be required to make routine purchases, as well.

Sponsor: Rep. Goodlatte, Bob [R-VA-6] (Introduced 01/10/2018)
Committees: House - Judiciary; Education and the Workforce; Homeland Security; Foreign Affairs; Ways and Means; Armed Services; Oversight and Government Reform; Agriculture; Transportation and Infrastructure; Natural Resources
Latest Action: House - 01/24/2018 Referred to the Subcommittee on Immigration and Border Security. (All Actions)
Notes: On 5/9/2018, a motion was filed to discharge the Committee on Rules from the consideration of H.RES. 774, a resolution providing for consideration of the bill (H.R. 4760). A discharge petition requires 218 signatures for further action. (Discharge Petition No. 115-10: text with signatures.)

 

[Natural Citizen]

We already have driver's licenses that are close. Of course your attitude is typical after decades of the scumbag GOP brainwashing...

The GOP is giving you what you want.

Though I do not consent, rest assured they hate a free society just as much as you do.

And their base will love them for it. Observably.

 

[francoHFW]

Marijuana.

Oh. Well, the drug war is another thing that we need to end. Agreed.

The drug war is just another in a long line of wars that we've lost.

Not really. That would be like saying the war on murder failed or the war on theft. Laws don't eliminate crime in our country, it controls it to some degree.

Ive never heard of a war of murder. A war on drug, yes. Anyways, we haven't won a war since WWII, and even then, we needed help.

Well......I don't believe there was ever a war on women either. Catchy title, but no real wars in reality.

In the past couple of years a few people I knew (and related to) died because of drugs. Legalizing it just isn't a good idea. One time my apartment was robbed by drug addicts, another time a drug addict tenant of mine nearly burned my house down, it's just too much of a problem.

Legalizing all dope would make matters five times worse.

People die because illegal drugs are full of poison. They should at least legalize methadone and other healthier alternatives in programs and treatments. It is now totally out of control. GOP policy Law and Order Nanny state is a disgrace, along with our default GOP immigration policy, Mental Health non-system, living wage not!, Giant tax cuts for the rich and service cuts for everyone else, b******character assassination propaganda machine 4 haters like you. 35 years of regression and garbage. Great job!

 

[francoHFW]

We already have driver's licenses that are close. Of course your attitude is typical after decades of the scumbag GOP brainwashing...

The GOP is giving you what you want.

Though I do not consent, rest assured they hate a free society just as much as you do.

And their base will love them for it. Observably.

Somehow almost all successful countries manage it LOL.

 

[francoHFW]

We already have driver's licenses that are close. Of course your attitude is typical after decades of the scumbag GOP brainwashing...

The GOP is giving you what you want.

Though I do not consent, rest assured they hate a free society just as much as you do.

And their base will love them for it. Observably.

We need a card for everyone, not just DACA.... Another half half measure that will do nothing. They can just steal someone's identity as usual.

 

[tycho1572]

I hope democrats will eventually see the consequences of them telling people they can illegally enter this country.

 

[tycho1572]

It’s a very cruel stance to take.