What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[HappyJoy]

Unclench your nuts. The question is about the moral decision to travel with children on a risky trip, nothing more.

You don't have the right to lecture anyone on morals when you let the decisions of parents who send their children on dangerous journeys alone to pass without so much as a whimper on your part. No. Willfully exposing a child to danger is perhaps the most immoral thing one can think of.

A couple of things here.

For starters most of us are referring to families traveling together seeking asylum and then being separated. Or at least that is what my posts are addressing.

However, when it comes to kids leaving separately there are probably a lot of reasons. Like the kid leaves on their own, the family maybe can only afford to send their kids and they feel the journey is safer than if the child stayed. Now, it could be that some of those unaccompanied minors are unwanted, my solution would be to take them in and help them. Where as you would do what? Send them back to the dangers they escaped from? Probably would, so don't lecture me.

Always an excuse, isn't there?

Hey, here's an idea, Joy, open up your house and home, take in as many of these children as your heart desires. Then you can lecture the rest of us about morality. Until we give these children refuge from that danger, they will remain in danger. That danger, Joy, is not of our making. They were exposed to that danger by their parents.

I'll take in all of those kids if you take in all those unborn, unwanted fetuses, OK, buddy? Problem is I'm ill equipped to take care of 2000 kids let alone one and I don't your fish tank will hold a couple million zygotes. This is a job for government...well, it should be but it's obviously coming up short right now.

Not even in my most desperate hour would I abandon my child to the dangers of the world. My guidance and protection would be their greatest weapon. But you? Oh, it is an act of "compassion" to do something so despicable.

I still think you're confused about families coming here and being split apart (the reason this is in the news) with kids coming here unaccompanied. You can make whatever argument you want about those parents in the latter, I'm more interested in helping those kids. You know, the ones you want your government to ignore, deport get rid of while lecturing me that I don't care. Are you serious?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'll take in all of those kids if you take in all those unborn, unwanted fetuses, OK, buddy?

I would, if you wouldn't abort them all, you blithering idiot.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm more interested in helping those kids.

(smiles)

No, you're not. You're only interested in using them as political tools.

 

[Flopper]

If there is any evidence of child trafficking, the immigration authorities should definitely act. However it is not logical to make that assumption without evidence of such. One of the few rights illegal immigrants have is Due Process. Since most of these families came with the intent of applying for asylum, most of them will have some documentation.

First... I can contend that the exact opposite is true. You can't assume that all of these adults with minors are in fact families.

Second, these people had no rights in America (constitutional or otherwise) before they crossed the border illegally, why should they suddenly attain them when they do? If you aren't a citizen, you should not be entitled to constitutional rights until you go through the proper channels. Period. Full stop.

So there are no basic human rights?

You want compassion to overrule the law. I want the law to stand sacrosanct against emotional arguments like yours. Too much emotion and compassion can erode the rule of law. You can have your basic human rights, but you surrender all others when you commit a crime against justly enacted law. That's what you fail to understand.

I'm beginning to think people like you and Coyote hold no respect for the law. Otherwise you would demand that it be enforced. But you want the law to be selectively applied.

I SAID NOTHING ABOUT DENYING THEM THEIR BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS.

No, you do not surrender rights by a committing crime. The accused certainly has constitutional rights, even non-citizens.

You're missing the point entirely. It makes zero sense to say that any illegal who sets foot on American soil gains constitutional rights when they do.

I believe in reciprocal punishment. If you violate the rights of others by committing a crime, you should lose yours. You have forfeited them because you had no respect for the rights of others. Due process is guaranteed, but the rest of your rights go bye bye.

When you say commit a crime I suppose you mean found guilty of the crime.

A convicted felon does lose rights such as:

• Voting
• Traveling abroad
• The right to bear arms or own guns
• Jury service
• Employment in certain fields
• Public social benefits and housing
• Parental benefits

However, they retains all their basic constitutional rights and I think they should.

 

[HappyJoy]

It isnt the Dems responsibility to clean up Trump's mess.

It wasn't Trump's mess to begin with. I didn't see you wailing about this four years ago when these images came along:

Leaked Images Reveal Children Warehoused in Crowded U.S. Cells, Border Patrol Overwhelmed | Breitbart

But hey, this was Trump's fault.

Those were children that crossed over on their own. Not ripped apart by government.

Victims of human traffickers.

They removed them from the people victimizing them. Who are not their parents. Who are not their *families*.

And the MS13 who show up to *pick them up* are not their *family* either, no matter how hard Hillary tries to convince retards like you that they are.

Let me guess, you think Clinton was advocating for street gangs. Silly.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The parents aren't doing it. The govt is.

No.

Do you think these children suddenly developed a sudden societal and environmental awareness and decided to come here on their own? No. The parents chose to send them here, alone. Adults claiming to be parents smuggled them here, only to leave them alone when they were detained for crossing illegally. You are so damned ignorant that you can't see these people are taking advantage of our system. That system must be changed. With or without your help.

The govt, through policy, is deciding to prosecute 100% them. Including those seeking asylum.The result of said prosecution is separation. This was not the case six weeks ago.

No, the government is prosecuting 100% of the people who COME HERE ILLEGALLY. If they request asylum, then that request is processed, but until it's granted - IF it's granted - they're still guilty of committing a crime, and THAT is what they're being prosecuted for.

And yes, being prosecuted for a crime results in being separated from your children. Works that way for everyone who gets prosecuted for a crime. Do I feel guilty about that? I'M not the one who broke the law, so no. And if it was not the case six weeks ago that we treated criminals like criminals, then that just means it took too fucking long to pull our heads out of our asses.

Once again, there is only one solution, and you have YET to say a word about it. Which tells me - far louder than any of the lies and propaganda and memes spewing from your mouth like sewage from a broken septic tank - that what you REALLY want is an outcome that has nothing to do with obeying the law.

Why prosecute them? Its unnecessarily punative. They're already in custody and their asylum claims will be judged to be valid or not. If their claim is valid, the anguish caused by the separation was for what?

 

[Coyote]

In terms of victims such as Steinle the only perspn who violatrd her rights was was the one who killed her. No one else.

You're being naive. With all due respect.

Do you reeeeeallly think that he is the only one of his kind to cross the border illegally?

What is "his kind"?

He is the only one who killed her. Not all other illegal immigrants. Him. No one else violate her rights did they?

Don't be dense.

There are many other illegal immigrants out there just like him. They were criminals in their own country, and they willingly continue that pattern here. That puts my right to reasonable safety at risk.

And thete are many legal citizens just like him out there even more likely to put your rights at risk. Which of your rights have ilkegal immigrants violated? None really. Individuals violate rights not broad groups

 

[TemplarKormac]

You know, the ones you want your government to ignore, deport get rid of while lecturing me that I don't care. Are you serious?

If they weren't sent here illegally, if they weren't brought here illegally, they wouldn't be our problem to ignore.

Solution:

Respect our borders and our laws.

And no, you don't care.

 

[Coyote]

The parents aren't doing it. The govt is.

No.

Do you think these children suddenly developed a sudden societal and environmental awareness and decided to come here on their own? No. The parents chose to send them here, alone. Adults claiming to be parents smuggled them here, only to leave them alone when they were detained for crossing illegally. You are so damned ignorant that you can't see these people are taking advantage of our system. That system must be changed. With or without your help.

The govt, through policy, is deciding to prosecute 100% them. Including those seeking asylum.The result of said prosecution is separation. This was not the case six weeks ago.

No, the government is prosecuting 100% of the people who COME HERE ILLEGALLY. If they request asylum, then that request is processed, but until it's granted - IF it's granted - they're still guilty of committing a crime, and THAT is what they're being prosecuted for.

And yes, being prosecuted for a crime results in being separated from your children. Works that way for everyone who gets prosecuted for a crime. Do I feel guilty about that? I'M not the one who broke the law, so no. And if it was not the case six weeks ago that we treated criminals like criminals, then that just means it took too fucking long to pull our heads out of our asses.

Once again, there is only one solution, and you have YET to say a word about it. Which tells me - far louder than any of the lies and propaganda and memes spewing from your mouth like sewage from a broken septic tank - that what you REALLY want is an outcome that has nothing to do with obeying the law.

Why prosecute them? Its unnecessarily punative. They're already in custody and their asylum claims will be judged to be valid or not. If their claim is valid, the anguish caused by the separation was for what?

Exactly.

 

[HappyJoy]

I'll take in all of those kids if you take in all those unborn, unwanted fetuses, OK, buddy?

I would, if you wouldn't abort them all, you blithering idiot.

Stay gold, Pony Boy, stay gold.

 

[HappyJoy]

I'm more interested in helping those kids.

(smiles)

No, you're not. You're only interested in using them as political tools.

How so? I wasn't even referring to unaccompanied minors until you brought them up and I still think you are conflating those kids with the separation of families.

 

[Billo_Really]

--------------------------------------------------- i like yer last line , now get your azz out there and divide the 'dems' up into multiple parties Billo !!

Republicans are liars; Democrats are pussies. They're flip-sides of the same coin.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'll take in all of those kids if you take in all those unborn, unwanted fetuses, OK, buddy?

I would, if you wouldn't abort them all, you blithering idiot.

Stay gold, Pony Boy, stay gold.

You know, I don't respond well to sarcasm. And your insults show just how degenerative your argument is.

 

[HappyJoy]

You know, the ones you want your government to ignore, deport get rid of while lecturing me that I don't care. Are you serious?

If they weren't sent here illegally, if they weren't brought here illegally, they wouldn't be our problem to ignore.

Solution:

Respect our borders and our laws.

And no, you don't care.

But they are here, what do you do with the ones here? And if they seek asylum they are respecting our borders, they are trying to go about this the right way.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm more interested in helping those kids.

(smiles)

No, you're not. You're only interested in using them as political tools.

How so? I wasn't even referring to unaccompanied minors until you brought them up and I still think you are conflating those kids with the separation of families.

No, you are ignoring unaccompanied minors for the sake of the families. For them, the separation has already occurred. But not one ounce of outrage from you.

No, you don't care, and I will continue to contend as much.

 

[Pop23]

How proud you must be supporting a policy that tears children from their parents arms WITHOUT regard. Stop pretending it has anything to do with stopping trafficking, you and I both know it doent and that is directky from the mouths of those who impmemented it as a deterrant. At least have the integrity to be honest about it.

------------------------- i don't care about the TRAFFICKING . I just want to scare the zhit out of the third worlders that they might have their kids taken from them if they violate American Law Coyote . --------------------- just a comment .

Scare them? You have to be joking. In Guatemala children 10 to 15 are routinely kidnapped, raped and murdered and the police don't even investigation. Teens are forcibly recruitment by street gangs and transnational drug cartels, after witnessed the murders of family members, friends and classmates. Exactly how do you plan to scare the shit out of them?

And the same thugs would think nothing of abducting a child and crossing our border with them.

Think about that

Child traffickers and victims posing as families are easily identified by law enforcement when apprehended. Victims almost universally show relief when questioned by law enforcement. The most common methods of transporting victims is as cargo in trucks and boats, not walking across the desert.

Yes and our very savvy and well experienced professionals are no doubt very adept at sorting through these claims.

Most teen girls are deceived as to why they are being smuggled. Told they were going to get good jobs. They don’t know different until it’s too late and do not turn their smugglers in, they believe them.

You are simply Naive.

 

[koshergrl]

It isnt the Dems responsibility to clean up Trump's mess.

It wasn't Trump's mess to begin with. I didn't see you wailing about this four years ago when these images came along:

Leaked Images Reveal Children Warehoused in Crowded U.S. Cells, Border Patrol Overwhelmed | Breitbart

But hey, this was Trump's fault.

Those were children that crossed over on their own. Not ripped apart by government.

Victims of human traffickers.

They removed them from the people victimizing them. Who are not their parents. Who are not their *families*.

And the MS13 who show up to *pick them up* are not their *family* either, no matter how hard Hillary tries to convince retards like you that they are.

Let me guess, you think Clinton was advocating for street gangs. Silly.

I think she's broadening the definition of *family* in order to allow them access to children.
It's kind of like calling illegal aliens and murderers on the lam from other countries "immigrants".
Or calling a baby a *fetus* if you want to kill it.

 

[Pop23]

You know, the ones you want your government to ignore, deport get rid of while lecturing me that I don't care. Are you serious?

If they weren't sent here illegally, if they weren't brought here illegally, they wouldn't be our problem to ignore.

Solution:

Respect our borders and our laws.

And no, you don't care.

But they are here, what do you do with the ones here? And if they seek asylum they are respecting our borders, they are trying to go about this the right way.

Asylum seekers must present at a border crossing. When they do the families are not separated.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And if they seek asylum they are respecting our borders, they are trying to go about this the right way.

And how many of those claims do you think are made in good faith? Hmm? Do you really think that all of these people are concerned with following proper procedure?

 

[HappyJoy]

I'll take in all of those kids if you take in all those unborn, unwanted fetuses, OK, buddy?

I would, if you wouldn't abort them all, you blithering idiot.

Stay gold, Pony Boy, stay gold.

You know, I don't respond well to sarcasm. And your insults show just how degenerative your argument is.

Now your feelings are hurt because I called you Pony Boy? I'm going to call you a snowflake now.