What is a conservative, anyway?

[Father Time]

Because "moral" laws are the structure by which society holds itself together.

I thought it was the prevention of crime and disorder not the prevention of people from doing harmless things other people have deemed immoral. But by all means don't bother posting proof for such an extraordinary claim.

Oh and here's something from Jefferson concerning the wall of separation.

http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html

 

[AllieBaba]

Poof...that went right over your head, didn't it?

 

[Caligirl]

In my thinking, morality lies in the realm of acting with compassion and doing no harm ... basically, believing in the equality of all.

It sounds as though to others, morality lies in the realm of adhering to proscriptions and prescriptions as specifically outlined in the Bible.

So in the one case, murder would not be sanctioned because the victim's life should be held in the same regard as the murderer's. But in the other case, murder would not be sanctioned because it is prodibited in the bible. When both philosophies agree, there is little to argue about, but when the two philosophies reach different conclusions, then it seems that some agreement must be reached as to what constitutes morality.

Is morality about adhering to rules, or about living in accordance with a guiding philosophy of all men created qual?

I suspect there are different opinions on this.....

And I am off for much of the rest of the day. Have a happy Tuesday.

 

[glockmail]

In my thinking, morality lies in the realm of acting with compassion and doing no harm ... basically, believing in the equality of all. .....

Basically I think you are right. However there are cases where there is a moral conflict, and the teachings of the Bible, specifically for me the teachings of Jesus, provide guidance in those cases. For this particular issue, that guidance would be 'love the sinner, hate the sin'.

 

[AllieBaba]

In my thinking, morality lies in the realm of acting with compassion and doing no harm ... basically, believing in the equality of all.

It sounds as though to others, morality lies in the realm of adhering to proscriptions and prescriptions as specifically outlined in the Bible.

So in the one case, murder would not be sanctioned because the victim's life should be held in the same regard as the murderer's. But in the other case, murder would not be sanctioned because it is prodibited in the bible. When both philosophies agree, there is little to argue about, but when the two philosophies reach different conclusions, then it seems that some agreement must be reached as to what constitutes morality.

Is morality about adhering to rules, or about living in accordance with a guiding philosophy of all men created qual?

I suspect there are different opinions on this.....

And I am off for much of the rest of the day. Have a happy Tuesday.

I think it's about living with the guiding philosophy that all men are created equal..which is the basic tenet of the Bible and the foundation of Christianity.

 

[AllieBaba]

I thought it was the prevention of crime and disorder not the prevention of people from doing harmless things other people have deemed immoral. But by all means don't bother posting proof for such an extraordinary claim.

Oh and here's something from Jefferson concerning the wall of separation.

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

I've posted it before. THe whole separation of church and state thing is a Baptist concept. Which is why I'm so befuddled by the current assumption among progressives that the separation of church and state means you aren't allowed freedom of speech when it comes to your religion, or freedom of religion if you intend to be involved in politics or the justice or legal systems.

 

[sealybobo]

I've posted it before. THe whole separation of church and state thing is a Baptist concept. Which is why I'm so befuddled by the current assumption among progressives that the separation of church and state means you aren't allowed freedom of speech when it comes to your religion, or freedom of religion if you intend to be involved in politics or the justice or legal systems.

The churches and conservatives are crossing the line Allie. Even my priest told us to vote GOP. He didn't say GOP, but we got the message. I was furious. I wanted to turn him in and get him to lose his tax exempt status. LOL. Can you imagine? I'd be hated in the Greek community.

 

[sealybobo]

Basically I think you are right. However there are cases where there is a moral conflict, and the teachings of the Bible, specifically for me the teachings of Jesus, provide guidance in those cases. For this particular issue, that guidance would be 'love the sinner, hate the sin'.

You can't send the sin/crime to jail, only the sinner/criminal.

I heard once, "god may forgive but society cannot."

 

[AllieBaba]

Er...since when are church leaders supposed to "hush" their political opinions? Many use the pulpit to educate their congregations about issues of the day, including politics. And I don't think adjuring your congregation to vote for a certain ticket would in any way hurt their tax-exempt status. Particularly since he didn't really SAY GOP, but just implied.

Your skin is too thin. These are not "offenses" in any form. What is offensive is the idea that we are going to lose our freedom of religion and freedom of speech because progressives don't want to "hear" anyone's opinions but their own.

 

[Skeptik]

Are our laws based on Christian ethics?

If so, then the commandment to "love the lord, thy God" would have to be somewhere in our law, wouldn't it?

Are there any laws requiring us to love the Christian god?

 

[AllieBaba]

Er.."based on" doesn't mean "the same as".

 

[glockmail]

Are our laws based on Christian ethics?

If so, then the commandment to "love the lord, thy God" would have to be somewhere in our law, wouldn't it?

Are there any laws requiring us to love the Christian god?

No one said that the country was founded to expand Christianity.

 

[Father Time]

I've posted it before. THe whole separation of church and state thing is a Baptist concept. Which is why I'm so befuddled by the current assumption among progressives that the separation of church and state means you aren't allowed freedom of speech when it comes to your religion, or freedom of religion if you intend to be involved in politics or the justice or legal systems.

I've never heard anyone say that that's what it means.

All it means is that you can't factor in the desires of religious God X when making laws.

 

[AllieBaba]

Hyper vigilance=hysterical.

 

[AllieBaba]

I've never heard anyone say that that's what it means.

All it means is that you can't factor in the desires of religious God X when making laws.

THank you for proving the point.

No, it doesn't. Separation of church and state ONLY MEANS THE STATE CANNOT FAVOR ONE CHURCH OVER ANOTHER. It does NOT mean that you can't let your religion guide you when making laws. It just means those laws cannot be made to punish people who have a different religion than the state sanctioned one.

 

[glockmail]

I've never heard anyone say that that's what it means.

All it means is that you can't factor in the desires of religious God X when making laws.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

I'll take it at face value, which means that a lawmaker can consider his ethics, or not, when voting yeah or nay.

 

[sealybobo]

Er...since when are church leaders supposed to "hush" their political opinions? Many use the pulpit to educate their congregations about issues of the day, including politics. And I don't think adjuring your congregation to vote for a certain ticket would in any way hurt their tax-exempt status. Particularly since he didn't really SAY GOP, but just implied.

Your skin is too thin. These are not "offenses" in any form. What is offensive is the idea that we are going to lose our freedom of religion and freedom of speech because progressives don't want to "hear" anyone's opinions but their own.

Na! You'll be alright. I was doing some research on Lee Atwater. He was the Karl Rove of the 80's.

Helping Strom Thurmond win in 1980, Atwater's tactics included push polling in the form of fake surveys by "independent pollsters" to inform white suburbanites that Turnipseed was a member of the NAACP. He also sent out last-minute letters from Sen. Strom Thurmond (R-S.C.) telling voters that Turnipseed would disarm America and turn it over to liberals and Communists.

Allie, the GOP has been lying to you for decades. I know I won't be able to undo decades of brainwashing, so I expect you to argue that you are not brainwashed, but trust me, you most certainly are.

 

[AllieBaba]

Good grief.

Even if any of that endearing rant were true, this has nothing to do with the definition of conservative, or with the current convo, which is about the separation of church and state.

 

[AllieBaba]

And honestly, let's talk about brainwashing..where exactly do you get your "facts"?

 

[Skeptik]

No one said that the country was founded to expand Christianity.

NO, but you did say that our laws are based on Christian ethics. Are they only based on part of Christian ethics, or all of them?

What I quoted is, after all, the second great commandment. How can that be left out, if we are to base our laws on Christian commandments?