Zone1 What is a person?

[alang1216]

Sure, why not? It's not an invincibility cloak. But are you really arguing we aren't at the top of the food chain? I mean is there anyone making that argument anywhere?

I just don't think it is very meaningful.

 

[alang1216]

And your point is wrong. Intelligence is inherent in all living things - to some degree or another - that respond and adapt to their environment.

Well if you believe bacteria are intelligent, I rescind my objections to your theory.

 

[alang1216]

Origin of new species would seem to indicate otherwise.

Completely untrue. Populations matter, not individuals.

 

[alang1216]

Should every unique DNA in every species mean every unique individual from all species be given the sanctity of live personhood that is found in the best of human systems of civil order?

No. But I'll let ding give the opposing position if he so decides.

 

[ding]

I just don't think it is very meaningful.

You don't think intelligence is meaningful?

 

[ding]

Well if you believe bacteria are intelligent, I rescind my objections to your theory.

Bacterial cells can communicate and alter group behavior with one another by population density through quorum sensing, another manifestation of intelligence. This is a form of self-awareness that allows entire bacterial networks to recognize and adjust to particular environments collectively.

How Intelligent are Microbes?

The most studied manifestations of intelligence in the microbial world include decision-making, problem solving, associative learning and quorum sensing.

www.news-medical.net

 

[ding]

Completely untrue. Populations matter, not individuals.

Walk me through how an entirely new species begins if not for the DNA of a few individuals.

 

[alang1216]

You don't think intelligence is meaningful?

Not to nature.

 

[alang1216]

Bacterial cells can communicate and alter group behavior with one another by population density through quorum sensing, another manifestation of intelligence. This is a form of self-awareness that allows entire bacterial networks to recognize and adjust to particular environments collectively.

I was using the term more narrowly.

 

[alang1216]

Walk me through how an entirely new species begins if not for the DNA of a few individuals.

It may take a thousand or more generations for a new species to arise, that is more than a few individuals.

 

[ding]

Not to nature.

And yet nature selected it to evolve.

 

[ding]

I was using the term more narrowly.

Anything which is alive responds to its surroundings; its environment. It's literally one of the characteristics of life that distinguishes life from inanimate objects.

Do you know what PLC is? Or AI? Is that intelligence? All life has at least a rudimentary intelligence if it responds or interacts with its environment. And that rudimentary intelligence is hardwired into the being of the organism. So if you want to pretend that intelligence isn't important in evolution, that's your mistake to make. I say you are making that mistake for no other reason than bias.

 

[ding]

It may take a thousand or more generations for a new species to arise, that is more than a few individuals.

How would that work? If I am understanding you correctly there could be a thousand generations before a new species arises. How many members of the new species must exist for the new species to continue? Because it seems like in your model it starts with 2. Wouldn't the DNA of those 2 be important?

 

[alang1216]

And yet nature selected it to evolve.

In one, otherwise defenseless, species

 

[alang1216]

Anything which is alive responds to its surroundings; its environment. It's literally one of the characteristics of life that distinguishes life from inanimate objects.

Do you know what PLC is? Or AI? Is that intelligence? All life has at least a rudimentary intelligence if it responds or interacts with its environment. And that rudimentary intelligence is hardwired into the being of the organism. So if you want to pretend that intelligence isn't important in evolution, that's your mistake to make. I say you are making that mistake for no other reason than bias.

All life responds or interacts with its environment, plants, animals, fungi, protozoa, etc. If you want to define intelligence that way, then I agree, the universe is an intelligence generator. If we are the only intelligent species, we don't agree.

 

[alang1216]

How would that work? If I am understanding you correctly there could be a thousand generations before a new species arises. How many members of the new species must exist for the new species to continue? Because it seems like in your model it starts with 2. Wouldn't the DNA of those 2 be important?

You don't understand me correctly. Species are defined by their population and populations are measured in the thousands or millions, not 2 individuals. Ever.

 

[ding]

In one, otherwise defenseless, species

The central nervous systems of all mammal species has gotten larger as they evolved.

 

[ding]

All life responds or interacts with its environment, plants, animals, fungi, protozoa, etc. If you want to define intelligence that way, then I agree, the universe is an intelligence generator. If we are the only intelligent species, we don't agree.

Never said humans were the only species with intelligence. Just that intelligence is a functional advantage and as such it will continue to evolve. Human species are the pinnacle of that evolution on this planet.

 

[ding]

You don't understand me correctly. Species are defined by their population and populations are measured in the thousands or millions, not 2 individuals. Ever.

But new species begin with a small population, right?

 

[alang1216]

But new species begin with a small population, right?

No, they begin with an isolated population. I'm not sure the size matters.