What is an "assault rifle"?

[iceberg]

Is one of these an "assault rifle"? If so, which one?

Wow, you assfucks don't give up.

Women & children are being slasghtered & you are too chickenshit to address the gun problem.

You hide behind semantics & pretend you are gun experts.

Fuck you people. The majority of American favor an AWB. I hope they decide to go door to door to collect all of them.



I

You hide behind broad generalizations because you can't emotionally define the problem. Then you compound the issue by using the children to get your attacks in.

Pretty much the textbook definition of asshole.

 

[Hale]

Fuck you people. The majority of American favor an AWB. I hope they decide to go door to door to collect all of them.

^^^ Potential shooter.

Perhaps legal Red Flag laws (that include due process) would stop people like this before they act out.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Fuck you people. The majority of American favor an AWB. I hope they decide to go door to door to collect all of them.

^^^ Potential shooter.

Perhaps legal Red Flag laws (that include due process) would stop people like this before they act out.

Yes, the govt should tag him. It's these maoists who are dangers.

 

[Lesh]

Is this fast enough? "Only" about 300 rounds per minute, but no real difference from full auto in effectiveness.

Until the barrel melts because it's not made to fire like that for long. Of course, you didn't know that, did you?

and the gun will malfunction before the barrel melts

Really?

I wonder why that didn't happen in Vegas when Paduch killed 50 and shot 500

 

[Flash]

Not really.

There are significant differences in the civilian AR barrels. Most of them are not the same as what is issued on a M-4.

Many civilian barrels are stainless steel, which the military never uses. Some are a weaker grade of steel with no chrome lining. Some have different twist rates. Some, like the hammer forged ones, are better quality.

The military issue M-4 barrels are 14.5 inches. Unless you get a NFA stamp or a pinned muzzle device to lengthen the length of the barrel you can't even own one.

While inferior barrels are available in AR15 style rifles, the barrels on a genuine Colt AR15 are mil-spec and always have been. Mil-spec barrels are also available from MANY other manufacturers.

Your allusion to the M4 is a red herring meant to obfuscate; this is another issue entirely. An M4 is a "short rifle" (barrel less than 16", oal less than 26"), and thus is NFA regulated. Barrel composition is not a factor. Nice try, though - and typical of you alleged "experts".

I think you are a little confused.

Over the years I have built a couple of hundred ARs and presently own more than a couple of dozen. I can probably build one from scratch with my eyes closed for the most part. I understand the platform very well.

I specifically said that that you couldn't have a 14.5 inch barrel without the NFA stamp or a pinned muzzle device.

The commercial market for AR-15 produces a variety of firearms that are different from the military issued M-4 carbines or even the older M-16A1s or M-16A2s. Most AR-15s sold in the US are not mil spec. The upper and lower receivers will be forged to mil spec dimensions and most have mil spec aluminum material but sometimes it doesn't go much farther than that.

A $260 Palmetto Stare Armory AR-15 is not the same quality or the same specifications as a military issued M-4. Not much beyond the dimensions of the receivers.

It is true that you can purchase Colt and FN military barrels or even semi auto clones of M-4s but most AR-15s sold are not those rifles. I have several Colt Model 6920s, which is the same as the military issued M-4 except it has a 16 inch barrel and a semi auto lower receiver. The cheaper ARs will have cheaper components.

Except for the basic dimensions of the upper and lower receivers the ARs that I have for precision shooting they have nothing in common with any military issued AR.

 

[Hale]

Not really.

There are significant differences in the civilian AR barrels. Most of them are not the same as what is issued on a M-4.

Many civilian barrels are stainless steel, which the military never uses. Some are a weaker grade of steel with no chrome lining. Some have different twist rates. Some, like the hammer forged ones, are better quality.

The military issue M-4 barrels are 14.5 inches. Unless you get a NFA stamp or a pinned muzzle device to lengthen the length of the barrel you can't even own one.

While inferior barrels are available in AR15 style rifles, the barrels on a genuine Colt AR15 are mil-spec and always have been. Mil-spec barrels are also available from MANY other manufacturers.

Your allusion to the M4 is a red herring meant to obfuscate; this is another issue entirely. An M4 is a "short rifle" (barrel less than 16", oal less than 26"), and thus is NFA regulated. Barrel composition is not a factor. Nice try, though - and typical of you alleged "experts".

I think you are a little confused.

Over the years I have built a couple of hundred ARs and presently own more than a couple of dozen. I can probably build one from scratch with my eyes closed for the most part. I understand the platform very well.

I specifically said that that you couldn't have a 14.5 inch barrel without the NFA stamp or a pinned muzzle device.

The commercial market for AR-15 produces a variety of firearms that are different from the military issued M-4 carbines or even the older M-16A1s or M-16A2s. Most AR-15s sold in the US are not mil spec. The upper and lower receivers will be forged to mil spec dimensions and most have mil spec aluminum material but sometimes it doesn't go much farther than that.

A $260 Palmetto Stare Armory AR-15 is not the same quality or the same specifications as a military issued M-4. Not much beyond the dimensions of the receivers.

It is true that you can purchase Colt and FN military barrels or even semi auto clones of M-4s but most AR-15s sold are not those rifles. I have several Colt Model 6920s, which is the same as the military issued M-4 except it has a 16 inch barrel and a semi auto lower receiver. The cheaper ARs will have cheaper components.

Except for the basic dimensions of the upper and lower receivers the ARs that I have for precision shooting they have nothing in common with any military issued AR.

No, it is you who are confused.

You compared "civilian AR barrels" with "what is issued on a M-4". This is literally apples and oranges; barrel length and overall length are the issues here, NOT barrel composition, which is the actual topic.

More specifically, the discussion was the ability of the barrel to withstand high rates of fire, which precipitated the mention of barrel composition. And interestingly enough, this is a factor which has NEVER been considered in defining an "assault weapon". This omission is proof positive that anti-gun types really have no interest in the actual effectiveness of a weapon, and instead choose to judge based on inconsequential physical features.

One must also delineate between AR15 style weapons and true AR15's. The former are extremely popular and offered in a wide range of qualities, where a true AR15 is always mil-spec by virtue of it's manufacturer.

Not that any of these distinctions are actually relevant; 2A merely acknowledges a freedom, it does NOT establish a privilege, thus regulation of any sort is literally unconstitutional.

Regardless, the GCA and NFA do exist, albeit illegally. But the bottom line is this: If gun control advocates were genuinely concerned about the lethality of firearms, they would address actual technical issues rather than inciting the public on irrelevant cosmetic variations.

This is undeniable proof of the insincerity of "gun control" advocates. They don't want less shootings, they want unarmed citizens because they are easier to dominate and control. And this is exactly what 2A is intended to prevent.

 

[hunarcy]

Until the barrel melts because it's not made to fire like that for long. Of course, you didn't know that, did you?

The barrel of the "civilian" semi-auto AR15's is identical to that of the select-fire military M16's.

Of course, you didn't know that, did you?

You think everyone is as uneducated as you? That's sad. I think EVERYONE knows that the barrels are identical. What you also seem to be ignorant of is that the military taught it's soldiers not to fire on full auto. If that sort of fire is needed, it is provided by belt fed weapons like the SAW.

Here is a video of a guy firing as you imagine everyone does. He's able to get over 800 rounds through it before it fails. Check this out.

 

[Rustic]

Until the barrel melts because it's not made to fire like that for long. Of course, you didn't know that, did you?

The barrel of the "civilian" semi-auto AR15's is identical to that of the select-fire military M16's.

Of course, you didn't know that, did you?

You think everyone is as uneducated as you? That's sad. I think EVERYONE knows that the barrels are identical. What you also seem to be ignorant of is that the military taught it's soldiers not to fire on full auto. If that sort of fire is needed, it is provided by belt fed weapons like the SAW.

Here is a video of a guy firing as you imagine everyone does. He's able to get over 800 rounds through it before it fails. Check this out.

Yep,
Over the counter ARs Are certainly not military grade.
Their barrels are substandard, the gas chambers are substandard, they do not have m-4 ramps, They do not have select fire, And the bolts do not pass muster...

 

[iceberg]

Is this fast enough? "Only" about 300 rounds per minute, but no real difference from full auto in effectiveness.

Until the barrel melts because it's not made to fire like that for long. Of course, you didn't know that, did you?

and the gun will malfunction before the barrel melts

Really?

I wonder why that didn't happen in Vegas when Paduch killed 50 and shot 500

How many guns did he have again?

 

[Flash]

Not really.

There are significant differences in the civilian AR barrels. Most of them are not the same as what is issued on a M-4.

Many civilian barrels are stainless steel, which the military never uses. Some are a weaker grade of steel with no chrome lining. Some have different twist rates. Some, like the hammer forged ones, are better quality.

The military issue M-4 barrels are 14.5 inches. Unless you get a NFA stamp or a pinned muzzle device to lengthen the length of the barrel you can't even own one.

While inferior barrels are available in AR15 style rifles, the barrels on a genuine Colt AR15 are mil-spec and always have been. Mil-spec barrels are also available from MANY other manufacturers.

Your allusion to the M4 is a red herring meant to obfuscate; this is another issue entirely. An M4 is a "short rifle" (barrel less than 16", oal less than 26"), and thus is NFA regulated. Barrel composition is not a factor. Nice try, though - and typical of you alleged "experts".

I think you are a little confused.

Over the years I have built a couple of hundred ARs and presently own more than a couple of dozen. I can probably build one from scratch with my eyes closed for the most part. I understand the platform very well.

I specifically said that that you couldn't have a 14.5 inch barrel without the NFA stamp or a pinned muzzle device.

The commercial market for AR-15 produces a variety of firearms that are different from the military issued M-4 carbines or even the older M-16A1s or M-16A2s. Most AR-15s sold in the US are not mil spec. The upper and lower receivers will be forged to mil spec dimensions and most have mil spec aluminum material but sometimes it doesn't go much farther than that.

A $260 Palmetto Stare Armory AR-15 is not the same quality or the same specifications as a military issued M-4. Not much beyond the dimensions of the receivers.

It is true that you can purchase Colt and FN military barrels or even semi auto clones of M-4s but most AR-15s sold are not those rifles. I have several Colt Model 6920s, which is the same as the military issued M-4 except it has a 16 inch barrel and a semi auto lower receiver. The cheaper ARs will have cheaper components.

Except for the basic dimensions of the upper and lower receivers the ARs that I have for precision shooting they have nothing in common with any military issued AR.

No, it is you who are confused.

You compared "civilian AR barrels" with "what is issued on a M-4". This is literally apples and oranges; barrel length and overall length are the issues here, NOT barrel composition, which is the actual topic.

More specifically, the discussion was the ability of the barrel to withstand high rates of fire, which precipitated the mention of barrel composition. And interestingly enough, this is a factor which has NEVER been considered in defining an "assault weapon". This omission is proof positive that anti-gun types really have no interest in the actual effectiveness of a weapon, and instead choose to judge based on inconsequential physical features.

One must also delineate between AR15 style weapons and true AR15's. The former are extremely popular and offered in a wide range of qualities, where a true AR15 is always mil-spec by virtue of it's manufacturer.

Not that any of these distinctions are actually relevant; 2A merely acknowledges a freedom, it does NOT establish a privilege, thus regulation of any sort is literally unconstitutional.

Regardless, the GCA and NFA do exist, albeit illegally. But the bottom line is this: If gun control advocates were genuinely concerned about the lethality of firearms, they would address actual technical issues rather than inciting the public on irrelevant cosmetic variations.

This is undeniable proof of the insincerity of "gun control" advocates. They don't want less shootings, they want unarmed citizens because they are easier to dominate and control. And this is exactly what 2A is intended to prevent.

You are arguing over nothing of substance.

A non chromed lined barrel is probably good for about 10K rounds on relativity slow semi auto fire. A Mil spec chrome lined will probably be good for 20K rounds. If it is a CHF barrel even more.

Unless you are a prolific shooter you will never use up an AR barrel. I am a firearms trainer and range officer. I see a lot of shooters. Most of them don't put 500 rds a year through their ARs.

I shoot a lot. A hellva lot and I have only shot out a couple of barrels and they have both been with my full auto M-16. I have never shot out a barrel on semi auto and that includes the ones that have lower end 4140 molly barrels.

Now I have replaced stainless steel competition barrels. The start losing their accuracy at about 2K. I usually change those out every two years.

The commercial AR usually does not have mill specs beyond the basic dimensions of the upper and lower receivers.

The fact that the gun grabbers do not understand the difference is something to be ridiculed. They think the $359 Anderson AR is the same kind issued to the military as an assault weapon and they are wrong.

 

[Hale]

And here's the same test on a Palmetto State Armory upper, a cheap non mil-spec AR15 style.

440 rounds, 2 minutes, and it's done. A rather huge difference vs mil-spec, yet none of the anti-gun wackos know or care.

 

[bripat9643]

Is one of these an "assault rifle"? If so, which one?

Wow, you assfucks don't give up.

Women & children are being slasghtered & you are too chickenshit to address the gun problem.

You hide behind semantics & pretend you are gun experts.

Fuck you people. The majority of American favor an AWB. I hope they decide to go door to door to collect all of them.



I

ROFL! We are addressing it. We're telling you to go fuck yourself. As usual, the Stalinist side of the debate is hiding behind women and children. That's always how they justify imposing totalitarianism.

What you're really telling us is that you don't care about the facts.

We already know that.

The "gun problem" is that turds like you prevent anything meaningful from being done. You don't give a shit that hundreds of people in Chicago are killed every year in gang wars because that doesn't advance your gun confiscation agenda. No one is fooled by your sanctimonious bleating about women and children.

 

[bripat9643]

And eliminates all guns have xcept muskets.

Like I said, keep showing why compromises will never happen.

OK....lets compromise

3 shots every 2 seconds
That’s 15 shots in ten seconds
Why would anyone need more?

What's wrong with one round per trigger pull?

Opens up too much ambiguity

The OP and other gun enthusiasts mockingly say you can’t define an Assault Weapon
I’m saying limit magazine capacity and firing rate and you have a definition

I'm saying you are full of shit. There's nothing ambiguous about firing one round for every pull of the trigger. You just want to expand the definition to include a lot of weapons that were previously protected. manufacturing a mechanism that limits the firing rate to so a specific number of rounds per second is not a trivial task. It would make weapons vastly more complicated, unreliable and expensive.

Go fuck yourself.

There is a lot of leeway in what constitutes a trigger pull
Is it a full pull where you have to retract and fully engage your trigger or just a quiver where the trigger will engage

What can’t be fudged is your firing rate and how large your magazine is

There is no leeway, moron. Pulling the trigger until it fires one shot is a "trigger pull."

 

[bripat9643]

What's wrong with one round per trigger pull?

Opens up too much ambiguity

The OP and other gun enthusiasts mockingly say you can’t define an Assault Weapon
I’m saying limit magazine capacity and firing rate and you have a definition

No it doesn't

Almost every firearm in existence today fires one round per trigger pull

WHat you are trying to do is label every single firearm as an "assault" weapon

The actual definition has been given

And assault rifle is a military weapon with the capability of burst and or fully automatic fire

So you want to negotiate on firing rate?

An AR-15 fires three rounds per second
What rate do you want as a threshold for Assault Weapon?

No, he doesn't want to negotiate on firing rate. Once you make that concession, where does it end? You got it, single shot rifles and pistols.

Nope, it ends with a reasonable firing rate that restricts your ability to massacre small children

You aren't qualified to judge what "reasonable" is, moron.

 

[bripat9643]

Who gave you the authority to impose that rule on anyone?

The OP asked to define an assault weapon

I did

So, you really want a complete ban and confiscation of all firearms manufactured after 1830?

That is exactly what we thought.

Thank you for confirming.

.

No
I want to keep America safe

You're proposal would do exactly the opposite. Who is going to defend us from Antifa and BLM thugs? Obviously, not the government.

Who is going to defend you when a kid wanders onto your lawn?

Why would I need defending from that? What kind of moron response is that?

 

[M14 Shooter]

That's because they aren't full auto. AR's are semi auto.

Totally incorrect. The original ArmaLite AR-15 was selective-fire (semi/burst/full auto). The M16 was semi/full auto, and the the current variants such as the AR15A4 are semi-auto only, but ALL variants have their roots in the AR15 family.

Ok, so AR's are select-fire rifles. Thanks, I had no idea.

If by "select fire" you mean the ability to select between safe and semi-auto, then yes.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Women & children are being slasghtered & you are too chickenshit to address the gun problem.

They are.
But not by 'assault weapons'.

 

[Flash]

And here's the same test on a Palmetto State Armory upper, a cheap non mil-spec AR15 style.

440 rounds, 2 minutes, and it's done. A rather huge difference vs mil-spec, yet none of the anti-gun wackos know or care.

The fire was in the plastic hand guard. That is why Colt puts double heat shields in their plastic.hand guards. Of course the military hardly uses plastic hand guards any more. I bet it would have lasted a few hundred more rounds with a better hand guard. Combat troops are issued the M-4 with KNC rails.

However, like the video said, the gas tube is the weak point. For my M-16 I have higher end gas tubes but then again I never do rapid mag dumps.

I have had bolt failures on rapid fire more than I have seen gas tube failures. For semi auto ARs you are probably not going to burn one up unless your rapidly shoot 1K rds or something.

 

[Hale]

The fire was in the plastic hand guard. That is why Colt puts double heat shields in their plastic.hand guards. Of course the military hardly uses plastic hand guards any more. I bet it would have lasted a few hundred more rounds with a better hand guard. Combat troops are issued the M-4 with KNC rails.

The failure was in the gas tube, and might have happened even earlier with a heavier, more insulated hand guard.

 

[miketx]

That's because they aren't full auto. AR's are semi auto.

Totally incorrect. The original ArmaLite AR-15 was selective-fire (semi/burst/full auto). The M16 was semi/full auto, and the the current variants such as the AR15A4 are semi-auto only, but ALL variants have their roots in the AR15 family.

Ok, so AR's are select-fire rifles. Thanks, I had no idea.

If by "select fire" you mean the ability to select between safe and semi-auto, then yes.

I give up.