What is the republican solution to ending mass shootings? Why don’t they ever offer solutions?

[Lesh]

Wonder why our worst mass shootings haven’t been with revolvers...

It takes so long to load them...and when you're nervous ya keep dropping the bullets...and they only hold 6-7 bullets...

Just not a great mass murder weapon.

Semi-autos are much better

 

[Brain357]

Wonder why our worst mass shootings haven’t been with revolvers...

It takes so long to load them...and when you're nervous ya keep dropping the bullets...and they only hold 6-7 bullets...

Just not a great mass murder weapon.

Semi-autos are much better

Revolvers are great for defense though, wow a great defensive weapon that isn’t great for mass killing... one might think we should have those instead of lots of weapons for mass killing. Guess that’s too much common sense...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

You can introduce it till your're blue in the face but the fact remains that the first popular civilian produced semi auto was the Marlin Model 60. But there were already a few M-1s floating around but they weren't produced for just civilian use. The Gas Operated Semi Autos rewrote the semi autos in 1937 which the M-1, SKS, AK and the Model 60 is based on. The ones before that were the blow back models and weren't really sought after. You really need to step away from Wiki and get out and live a little, cupcake.

the Model 1903 achieved commercial success and continued to be manufactured until 1932 when the Winchester Model 63 replaced it.

Commercial success

You still insist that the world is as YOU say it is

IOW you are fucking delusional

You can type real big if you want to but the fact remains, it was a dismal failure because it was just too early. It was a blowback model and didn't work real well. It jammed way too much. The Gas Discharge of the Marlin Model 60 was not possible (it was released in 1962) until the Gas Discharge method was invented in 1937 which many of the modern semi auto rifles of today are based on including the SKS, AK, M-1, M-14 and many others.

Once again just because you say something doesn't make it true

Semiautomatic rifles have been available to the public for over 100 years and nothing you can say or make up can change that fact

The first car was invented in 1795 but does anyone really remember who the inventor was? It was Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot. Why didn't it catch on? It sucked the big one. It wasn't until 1885 that Karl Benz introduced a 3 wheeled car that was hand mass produced in Germany that the Automobile finally caught on. While not the greatest, it just sucked a whole lot less. Each year, the Automobiles produced around the world sucked less and less until the Model T came out and it no longer sucked nearly as bad. Blowback is like the car built in 1795. Yes, it works but it really, really sucks and doesn't really replace the horse and buggy or in the blowback's case, the pump or bolt action.

You have a problem with innovation and the concept of interchangeable parts?

The AR platform is a wild success because it is highly versatile and customizible (is that a word?), with a variety of parts readily available for dirt cheap. It is available in no less than 10 different chamberings with many different roles or functions. The .223/5.56 is longer range, high velocity round not ideal for home defense but great for target practice and feral hog or varmint hunting. But, an AR pistol or SBR in .300 blackout subsonic is perfect for home defense. It's much easier to control than a handgun, especially in a stressful situation.

You are just mad because the average person has the ability to defend him/herself and you can no longer control their fears. You are mad because people have become more self-reliant, and that means they are no longer reliant on the all-mighty government to wipe their asses and feed them.

You are a control freak.

Admit it.

That's why commies love gun confiscation. They can't have control over a population that can fight them off.



.

It was originally introduced in 1964. But it was as popular as diarhia. In the early 90s, the NRa and the Gun Manufacturers went to promoting it because it was cheap to make and they billed it as something it isn't. You seem to have bought into all that. Then the Brady Bill which was just a knew jerk reaction that really had nothing to do with the AR at all but it got caught up in it. When the ban was lifted, the NRA and the Gun Crews slammed the airwaves with the Ads saying, "Hey, Look what they took from you". "You had better buy them before they take them away from all of you". Gun crazies like you bought the whole bill of goods. The Cult was made. All Bow Down to the AR God. Truth be told, it's one of the worst 22 cal varmint rifles made because it was never designed to just shoot varmints. It was designed for the battle field. The fact that it could also shoot a varmint doesn't mean it's just a varmint rifle. Truth be told, if you need 30 round to hit a varmint, you are shooting a lot of air and are the absolute worst shot that has ever lived. Why not use a Grenade Launcher instead, you would have better luck.

No wonder you are against the Mentally ill being looked at when it comes to having firearms. It will probably mean they'll take your guns when they haul your butt off to the state mental home.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And the types of guns have changed. Now semi autos with high capacity magazines are everywhere. Even angry children easy get guns.

18 year olds are not children

They certainly can be mass murderers with the help of military style weapons

A guy in Crimea used a 5 shot pump action shotgun to murder 20 college students...more than the shooter in Parkland killed with an AR-15 rifle. The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 with 2 pistols..more than the Parkland shooter the the AR-15 rifle.

It isn't the weapon, it is the time he is allowed to kill in a gun free zone targeting helpless, unarmed people....

Crimea is a War Zone and not in the United States. This has nothing to do with what we do in the US. Next you are going to start making claims just how dangerous it is to not be armed in Mars against the marauding Martians.

Yes...it does..... it shows exactly the truth about gun free zones. a killer with a 5 shot, pump action shotgun murdered 20 college students in a gun free zone, across the street from the police station......it is time in the gun free zone, where the killer is not stopped by an armed citizen or police officer that matters, not the type of gun he uses...

And if there had been an armed citizen, there is a 94% chance he would have been stopped and/or the killing been reduced.....

Crimea is NOT a gun free zone. IT's a friggin War Zone, stupid.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And the types of guns have changed. Now semi autos with high capacity magazines are everywhere. Even angry children easy get guns.

18 year olds are not children

They certainly can be mass murderers with the help of military style weapons

A guy in Crimea used a 5 shot pump action shotgun to murder 20 college students...more than the shooter in Parkland killed with an AR-15 rifle. The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 with 2 pistols..more than the Parkland shooter the the AR-15 rifle.

It isn't the weapon, it is the time he is allowed to kill in a gun free zone targeting helpless, unarmed people....

Crimea is a War Zone and not in the United States. This has nothing to do with what we do in the US. Next you are going to start making claims just how dangerous it is to not be armed in Mars against the marauding Martians.

Armed citizens have 94% effective rate when they are allowed to carry their legal guns into a gun free zone...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

Yes, a "Buy my Products" page. I saw one of those at the VA the other day. They had Patriots in the name of their company. They had the beards, the Dewrags, the Caps, the Tattoos and more. The Products were all Pro Military and Country. One problem, they both were fakes.

Now, let's look at your cite. Yes, it claims that it's from the FBI but it just CLAIMS that it comes from an FBI source. It doesn't actually give the FBI source. I guess when you are going to make shit up, try and make it sound as truthful as you can because some idjits will need that to buy into the lie. They do give a link to the materiel. You click on it and it wants your email address. Not in this lifetime, cupcake. At near the end, it finally gives the actual links to the FBI files. The files are long and arduous and don't hold up to the BS they present in their article. Their information is made up. They are hoping that we don't take the time to actually look it up. But the BS has to be true because they did finally give the links. Well, the Links don't support what the BS article says.

Then there is their 16 hour CCW course. It's all done through videos. For just a small fee of $38.95 a month you get all kinds of neat things. And if you send more money you get even more things like better videos and stuff. Part of that 38 bucks is the mailing list. Idjits pay for that mailing list like that. I notice that at least one idjit paid for that mailing list,didn't you. The NRA is a better class and cheaper at 25 bucks. And they do a lot of the same things but they also get out into the public and do some good things as well. While I won't directly support the NRA, I can see they are much better than the rip off liars and con artists like these people. But, go head,keep sending them your 38.95 every month, Yah, Yah, I know, you'll deny it but we all know better, Rexall Ranger.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And it was a dismal failure since it was the blowback model. The Gas Charge versions didn't come about until 1937 by anyone unless it was belt fed.

So the fuck what

the FUCKING FACT is that semiautomatic rifles have been available to civilians for over 100 FUCKING YEARS

So what. It can be made available but if it doesn't sell, so what. blowback works terrible. Better to have a pump which many 22lrs were at the time.

And I am still correct.

Just because the rifles got better in subsequent models is irrelevant and if a rifle was a commercial success by definition it was bought by civilians

It made very few sales. It sucked the big one.

Commercial success if Winchester lost money they wouldn't have kept making them



The Remington 1906 was even more well received as it was available in more calibers and was used by some law enforcement agencies

and again Remington saw commercial success and continued to produce them

I would expect the rifles to get better the longer they were in production

So whine and rant all you want

The semiautomatic rifle has been available to civilians for over a century

You are referring to the Model 8. Only 80K of them were ever made. Along with about 1900 FN models. That was in it's entire life. It jammed, it was dirty, it smoked like a chimney and occasionally blew up in your face. It stopped production in 1929. But it was made in a ton of different calibers from a 22lr all the way to a 410 Winchester. The bulk were of the 32 and 35 caliber models and were used for hunting. But they were inferior to the pump action 30.30 and the Savage lever action 303 Model 99. Yes, it was a better moustrap as long as you didn't mind losing a finger once in awhile setting the trap.

They later on improved on the Blowback and made it a lot safer. But by then, the gas discharge was being introduced which meant that the better semi auto rifles went the gas discharge route instead. With the exception of the Remington Nylon 22 that is. But the little Remington used the modified blow back which was much safer. Spent a few hours, days, months, etc. on one of those puppies. The original Blowback worked well with the 22LR but when you stepped it up to the larger more powerful rounds, it got very dangerous. Just because you offer it and you sell it doesn't make it good. Stanley Steamers sold real well at one time.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The same things were said in 1934 when they were trying to figure out a way to deal with the Thompson SMG. You honestly believe your arguments are original? It took about 10 years to finally get the Thompson off the streets by grandfathering the law in. And yes, a few went to jail or were heavily fined that operated like you would have. But it only took a few before the others got the hint and either got their FFL Licenses, turned their Thompsons in, kept their Thompsons, or filled the barrels up and messed up the actions to make it unserviceable as per the law. The ones that did not comply with the law were treated as criminals.

A Law abiding Citizen abides by the law. A Criminal breaks the law. If you decide to break the law and transfer your weapons to your children without background checks and it's against the law, just how does that not be considered breaking the law? Yes, cupcake, you just became a non law abiding citizen and you have made your children the same. Unless they decide to abide by the law and do the background checks themselves which they can. But, either way, you are a Criminal by all definitions. And you are right, Criminals like you don't follow the law.

make it the law, but there is no way to ever enforce it. you live in liberal fantasy land. Unless you plan to use the tactics of Hitler and Mao and send jack booted troops in to every house and apartment in the nation. any idea how may troops that would take and how many of them would wind up dead before the people revolted and replaced the government with a coup. Remember, we have the guns, the police, and the military on our side, and most of them would not take part in your gun confiscation. It would be a short bloodless coup.

Simple answer. You honestly believe this is the first time that this has been discussed? It was discussed in 1934 dealing with the Grease Guns and Thompson SMGs. And they found a way. It worked. Were those people so much smarter than we are today? (probably, it seems). So they found a way. So don't tell me that it can't be done. Yes, there were those that said exactly the same things you said. Some went to prison. Some died in a fight but most complied. In the end, the law was followed.

You Gun Crazies seem to think that we are coming for all your guns. Nope, just the ones that are the most dangerous in the hands of the most dangerous. Or we may be after those parts that make a gun the most dangerous in the hands of the most dangerous. Believe it or not, Cops do not like being outgunned. And if they can have anything that will enable them to be the top dogs then they are going to be for it. Take it from me, you DON'T have the Military or the Police on your side when the law is trying to make the streets a little safer with minor gun regulations. It is also trying to make a Police's Life a lot safer as well. Just read up on the 1934 Federal Firearms Law and see how that was done. It can and has been done so stop kidding yourself and follow the friggin law or be branded the exact same thing you keep saying you hate the most (other than a liberal) and that is a criminal.

the vast majority of gun crime in this country is done with cheap handguns, not semi automatic large capacity rifles. Banning and/or trying to confiscate "assault" rifles will accomplish nothing.

And the vast number of straw purchases in the border states that end up in the Metro Gang Hands are cheap handguns. One addresses the Mass Killings while the other addresses the more individual gang killings. But we can do something about both using different methods.

For the AR, we limit the mag size and de cultize it like we have around here. Simple as that. When you remove the banana clip of 30 from it you change the entire look and it's no longer the sought after dress for the well dressed Mass Shooter.

For the cheap handgun or even the expensive one, have all states do universal background checks and vigorously enforce it. Yes, there will still be guns stolen from homes but those will be finite. And there will be guns stolen from the military and cops but those are really hard to come by and resell. The straw purchase enforcement will take away that leg of the illegal arms sales. No, you can't stop it all but you can seriously curtail it.

If this saves even one life, it's worth it. And the last time I checked, every person that gets murdered has their first amendment rights stomped all over.

we already have background checks in every state, you will never find a way to background check a private transaction between two ghetto thugs.

If you are really concerned with innocents dying, how about the millions that planned parenthood murders every year? mostly minorities.

We don't have background checks in every state. As long as Gun Shows do not require background checks then you can't say you have background checks. And if a State Does decide to enforce their state wide background checks, it can be done if vigorously done. If you think it can't be done, go to a state that has mandatory background checks and play around there. If it becomes too rampant, the cops are going to get serious fast and they do have methods at their disposal to lock your criminal ass up.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

A double action revolver is a semiautomatic

Double action and semi-auto refer to two very different mechanisms.

If you don't understand the subject you really nee to shut the fuck up

It's a fucking distinction without a difference

The resulting fire is exactly the same

Wonder why our worst mass shootings haven’t been with revolvers...

Speed loaders are expensive. And I checked out some Wheel Guns the other day. You can't fine a decent wheel gun for a decent price now with more than a 5 round capacity. (A Western Drawl) "I'm gonna' shoot you dead with my 5 shooter" just ain't the same.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Wonder why our worst mass shootings haven’t been with revolvers...

It takes so long to load them...and when you're nervous ya keep dropping the bullets...and they only hold 6-7 bullets...

Just not a great mass murder weapon.

Semi-autos are much better

More like 5 rounds.

 

[2aguy]

18 year olds are not children

They certainly can be mass murderers with the help of military style weapons

A guy in Crimea used a 5 shot pump action shotgun to murder 20 college students...more than the shooter in Parkland killed with an AR-15 rifle. The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 with 2 pistols..more than the Parkland shooter the the AR-15 rifle.

It isn't the weapon, it is the time he is allowed to kill in a gun free zone targeting helpless, unarmed people....

Crimea is a War Zone and not in the United States. This has nothing to do with what we do in the US. Next you are going to start making claims just how dangerous it is to not be armed in Mars against the marauding Martians.

Armed citizens have 94% effective rate when they are allowed to carry their legal guns into a gun free zone...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

Yes, a "Buy my Products" page. I saw one of those at the VA the other day. They had Patriots in the name of their company. They had the beards, the Dewrags, the Caps, the Tattoos and more. The Products were all Pro Military and Country. One problem, they both were fakes.

Now, let's look at your cite. Yes, it claims that it's from the FBI but it just CLAIMS that it comes from an FBI source. It doesn't actually give the FBI source. I guess when you are going to make shit up, try and make it sound as truthful as you can because some idjits will need that to buy into the lie. They do give a link to the materiel. You click on it and it wants your email address. Not in this lifetime, cupcake. At near the end, it finally gives the actual links to the FBI files. The files are long and arduous and don't hold up to the BS they present in their article. Their information is made up. They are hoping that we don't take the time to actually look it up. But the BS has to be true because they did finally give the links. Well, the Links don't support what the BS article says.

Then there is their 16 hour CCW course. It's all done through videos. For just a small fee of $38.95 a month you get all kinds of neat things. And if you send more money you get even more things like better videos and stuff. Part of that 38 bucks is the mailing list. Idjits pay for that mailing list like that. I notice that at least one idjit paid for that mailing list,didn't you. The NRA is a better class and cheaper at 25 bucks. And they do a lot of the same things but they also get out into the public and do some good things as well. While I won't directly support the NRA, I can see they are much better than the rip off liars and con artists like these people. But, go head,keep sending them your 38.95 every month, Yah, Yah, I know, you'll deny it but we all know better, Rexall Ranger.

Moron, the FBI released a paper on the topic..... you spew things out as if they are relevant and important...

 

[2aguy]

You do know that a revolver is a semiautomatic don't you?

Except for a few obscure examples..revolvers are either single or double action. They are NOT "semi-auto"

Really...stay in the corner

Double action revolvers are semi automatic weapons you dope.....you pull the trigger and it self loads....

 

[2aguy]

Dude...you don't know the fucking difference between a semi-automatic weapon and a double action revolver.

What little you know you get from wiki...and you barely understand even THAT.

Give up while you're behind.

It's embarrassing

But then again you morons think that an AR 15 is somehow different from any other rifle chambered for 5.56

No. We don't. That's the GUN HUGGER claim.The fact that an AR-15 and an M-4 are basically the same weapon is what we have been saying all along stupid.

You need to sit in the corner before you hurt yourself

No, moron....the M-4 is a military weapon, the AR-15 is a civilian rifle.... the M-4 has select fire capability which is required for it to be a military weapon.

 

[2aguy]

18 year olds are not children

They certainly can be mass murderers with the help of military style weapons

Semiautomatic rifles are not "military style"

Semiautomatic firearms have been available to the public for over 100 years

And have become much more popular in recent years. Law enforcement used revolvers when I was a kid.

You do know that a revolver is a semiautomatic don't you?

You do know they don’t use high capacity magazines right?

Magazine capacity is the new scapegoat of anti-gun activists.....it has no bearing on crminals or mass shooters, but is merely a back door way to get guns banned....

 

[2aguy]

So the fuck what

the FUCKING FACT is that semiautomatic rifles have been available to civilians for over 100 FUCKING YEARS

So what. It can be made available but if it doesn't sell, so what. blowback works terrible. Better to have a pump which many 22lrs were at the time.

And I am still correct.

Just because the rifles got better in subsequent models is irrelevant and if a rifle was a commercial success by definition it was bought by civilians

You are being dishonest as usual.

Tell me exactly what is dishonest about the statement that semiautomatic rifles have been available to civilians for over 100 years

You are ignoring that they having been that popular until recent years. Which was my point. Our worst mass shooting have been done with them.

Wrong..our worst mass shootings have mostly been done with pistols.... the Virginia Tech shooter, 32 dead with 2 pistols.....Luby's cafe, 24 dead with 2 pistols.....

a rental truck used by a muslim in France murdered 86 people...more than any mass public shooting in this country.

 

[2aguy]

A double action revolver is a semiautomatic

Double action and semi-auto refer to two very different mechanisms.

If you don't understand the subject you really nee to shut the fuck up

It's a fucking distinction without a difference

The resulting fire is exactly the same

Wonder why our worst mass shootings haven’t been with revolvers...

Movies. Hollywood has glamorized the semi-auto pistol...mass shooters go for the trendy....

 

[2aguy]

Wonder why our worst mass shootings haven’t been with revolvers...

It takes so long to load them...and when you're nervous ya keep dropping the bullets...and they only hold 6-7 bullets...

Just not a great mass murder weapon.

Semi-autos are much better

Revolvers are great for defense though, wow a great defensive weapon that isn’t great for mass killing... one might think we should have those instead of lots of weapons for mass killing. Guess that’s too much common sense...

wrong..... they only hold 6 rounds, and are harder to carry than semi auto pistols...everything is a trade off.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

They certainly can be mass murderers with the help of military style weapons

A guy in Crimea used a 5 shot pump action shotgun to murder 20 college students...more than the shooter in Parkland killed with an AR-15 rifle. The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 with 2 pistols..more than the Parkland shooter the the AR-15 rifle.

It isn't the weapon, it is the time he is allowed to kill in a gun free zone targeting helpless, unarmed people....

Crimea is a War Zone and not in the United States. This has nothing to do with what we do in the US. Next you are going to start making claims just how dangerous it is to not be armed in Mars against the marauding Martians.

Armed citizens have 94% effective rate when they are allowed to carry their legal guns into a gun free zone...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

Yes, a "Buy my Products" page. I saw one of those at the VA the other day. They had Patriots in the name of their company. They had the beards, the Dewrags, the Caps, the Tattoos and more. The Products were all Pro Military and Country. One problem, they both were fakes.

Now, let's look at your cite. Yes, it claims that it's from the FBI but it just CLAIMS that it comes from an FBI source. It doesn't actually give the FBI source. I guess when you are going to make shit up, try and make it sound as truthful as you can because some idjits will need that to buy into the lie. They do give a link to the materiel. You click on it and it wants your email address. Not in this lifetime, cupcake. At near the end, it finally gives the actual links to the FBI files. The files are long and arduous and don't hold up to the BS they present in their article. Their information is made up. They are hoping that we don't take the time to actually look it up. But the BS has to be true because they did finally give the links. Well, the Links don't support what the BS article says.

Then there is their 16 hour CCW course. It's all done through videos. For just a small fee of $38.95 a month you get all kinds of neat things. And if you send more money you get even more things like better videos and stuff. Part of that 38 bucks is the mailing list. Idjits pay for that mailing list like that. I notice that at least one idjit paid for that mailing list,didn't you. The NRA is a better class and cheaper at 25 bucks. And they do a lot of the same things but they also get out into the public and do some good things as well. While I won't directly support the NRA, I can see they are much better than the rip off liars and con artists like these people. But, go head,keep sending them your 38.95 every month, Yah, Yah, I know, you'll deny it but we all know better, Rexall Ranger.

Moron, the FBI released a paper on the topic..... you spew things out as if they are relevant and important...

You Murderous Traitorous Idjit, I read the FBI files. It didn't say what the article claimed it said. Your Article lied therefore, you lied. So just keep sending them their 38.95 every month so they can keep lying out their asses and selling you more silly crap.

 

[Flash]

1. Gun control ensures that the citizens do not have power to resist government tyranny.

2. Gun control ensures that the law abiding do not have power to resist criminals.

3. Gun control ensures that the physically weak do not have power to resist the physically strong.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Wonder why our worst mass shootings haven’t been with revolvers...

It takes so long to load them...and when you're nervous ya keep dropping the bullets...and they only hold 6-7 bullets...

Just not a great mass murder weapon.

Semi-autos are much better

Revolvers are great for defense though, wow a great defensive weapon that isn’t great for mass killing... one might think we should have those instead of lots of weapons for mass killing. Guess that’s too much common sense...

wrong..... they only hold 6 rounds, and are harder to carry than semi auto pistols...everything is a trade off.

I looked at the new wheel guns that hold 5 shots. They are trim, light and are concealable. One was made out of composites with steel inserts in the cylinders and barrel and weighed almost nothing. I think the wheel gun is still hard to beat since it's absolutely the most dependable handgun on the face of the earth. And if you need more than 5, you are probably dead anyway.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

1. Gun control ensures that the citizens do not have power to resist government tyranny.

2. Gun control ensures that the law abiding do not have power to resist criminals.

3. Gun control ensures that the physically weak do not have power to resist the physically strong.

Wow, sounds like a lot of sound bites to me. Truth be known, a little gun regulation does help us all. A lot harms us all. None harms us all. There are many ways to be the strongest. You can be a huge hulking physical mass, a trained person in some kind of martial arts, a Boxer, or have a gun. Take your pick. Within 20 feet, if you don't have your gun already ready, you may have just brought your gun to a knife fight which may mean the shiv specialtist may be the strongest. Baseball Bats at 5 feet also work. Or you may have a sharp wit and confuse the hell out of the other person and get them to hesitate pulling their weapon while you pull your less effective weapon out (hit him with a toaster).

Now about resisting the Governments Tyranny, let's look at that. When the nation was formed, you are right. The Civilians were armed exactly like the maximum number of the Federal Military (75,000) was. Almost any State could raise an army that large very quickly and it was called a State Militia comprised of ALL Free White Men from the ages of 17 to 45. There was no way that the Feds could go up against even ONE state much less all of them. It was the Feds that called on the States for many of the things that the Feds would do today like the Whiskey Rebellion.

It worked out well until the Civil War where the State Militias had to be called up to fight a major war. It started to break down from there when more and more really nasty and expensive weapons were being introduced. Up until then, a Canon could be had by almost any rich person who would proudly display it at fairs and fire it. But right around the corner was the Artillery, Machine Guns, Mortars, and even nastier stuff that was very, very expensive and required a high degree of special training to use. Hello WWI.

In 1917, it was found that the old States Guards method would no longer work. They needed to call up millions for the war effort and under the Militia Laws, they could not call up the State Guards. So they Nationalized the State Guards and the National Guard was formed. It was actually slowly forming before that but the 1917 National Guard Act just made it Formal. Now, the states could have their States Militias under the old rules but their Guard Units could be nationalized by the President of the United States in the case of an emergency. And I believe WWI qualified as an Emergency. The States could have stopped this easily but didn't because they could not afford the cost of training and equipping the Guards to the degree required for WWI. Only the Feds under a War Powers Act had that much money. At that point, the States could no longer go up against the Federal Government with even an inkling of a chance of success no matter what.

You say that the Guards would side with the States? Sure, if the Feds use the Guards inside your State to quell the state. But they won't. It's an old trick as old as kingdoms. Ship the local boys over to another region and ship the boys from that region to the troubled region and have them quell the riots. If it's a northern problem area, use southern boys. If it's a southern area, use northern boys. Kings, Dukes and the like did that all the time even borrowing from other Kingdoms with promises of favor.

AT the same time that the 1917 National Guard Act was put into law, the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Justice) had an addition to it that precluded any military member from not following the Constitution of the United States and had them refuse Illegal Orders. In 1878, the Posse Comitatus Act was past which made it difficult to use Federal Military Troops inside the US. It only applied to the Army, not the Navy or the Marines. The Air Force was added in 1956. The Navy (hence the Marines) has language in their regulations that pretty much say the same thing. The various Regs and UCMJ pretty much means that the Military will refuse any order given by any President that they feel is Illegal. Illegal means Unconstitutional. While they may not do an overthrow, they will probably do nothing. Just sit there. When that happens, any President in that situation is pretty well done. It's happened once in my lifetime and the President didn't give any unlawful or unconstitutional orders. But he was not coherent for at least 3 days. The Military quietly did a sit down.

You keep trying to scare the 7 year olds with this drivel. I took an oath 5 times. No one told me that I should disregard that oath or I was relieved from it. I still believe it's my duty to defend against all Enemies of the Nation both Foreign and Domestic. And, you sir, are Domestic. But then again, this is the internet, you also might be Foreign. But that crap is still part of the enemy of the State and Constitution.