What is the worst problem in America today?

[Anathema]

and Jesus is not for those things?

Far too often Jesus, like every other religious figure and theological text is used as a means to avoid looking at the logical answer to a question or problem.

Faith is a wonderful concept when used in conjunction with common sense and logic. It is quite often a frail crutch when used in place of reason and common sense.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Far too often Jesus, like every other religious figure and theological text is used as a means to avoid looking at the logical answer to a question or problem.

Faith is a wonderful concept when used in conjunction with common sense and logic. It is quite often a frail crutch when used in place of reason and common sense.

This doesn't make sense to me at all

There is nothing more logical than Jesus Christ and His Church. And tehre is certainly no logic or reason outside GOD Himself who created the entire universe. It would appear to me that God is the most logical One of all..

I guess those who are not in that Church He founded... can get confused about things and start thinking that Jesus doesn't always make sense... ?

 

[Anathema]

This doesn't make sense to me at all

Of course it doesn’t. I do not say that with any sense of malice or intent to insult.

Your faith is obviously the guiding principle of your existence and so nothing outside that can seem logical and everything inside that paradigm makes perfect sense. I understand exactly where you are coming from. Most of my family falls into that category.

For those of us who see the world through a different prism, faith and logic do not always align so nicely or completely. Either we seek a direct connection to logic, or we have found a different form of faith. The latter is where I stand.

 

[sparky]

leftists?

not necessarily NMF

think 'divided we stand'


~S~

 

[notmyfault2020]

Of course it doesn’t. I do not say that with any sense of malice or intent to insult.

Your faith is obviously the guiding principle of your existence and so nothing outside that can seem logical and everything inside that paradigm makes perfect sense. I understand exactly where you are coming from. Most of my family falls into that category.

For those of us who see the world through a different prism, faith and logic do not always align so nicely or completely. Either we seek a direct connection to logic, or we have found a different form of faith. The latter is where I stand.

There is no true faith outside ... the true Faith. And you insult my integrity when you imply that I do not believe anything outside my faith or however u said it..

You don't tell us how your beliefs are different from ours so i really cannot address anything along those lines...

My faith is "the guilding principle of" my existence because Jesus is the only one who gives a rip about me or anyone else. Human love is worthless. There's no such thing. People love you when you do things for them, dislike you when you stop or whatever. In other words, it is "conditional" and therefore, not real, much less supernatural. You have never been in the Real Presence so you don't know about that Love... Oh, sure, maybe you've been to a Catholic funeral or something and felt the Presence for a time.. But I have been in said Presence for hours before.. though not lately, which... how apropos.. is NOT my fault..

Yeh, you people outside the Church often come across as very smug... as though you are just too intelligent to fall for.. some of that Christian nonsense.. I don't know about you but I don't doubt tht some people ... that's exactly what they want.. for everyone to think they are SO smart and so enlightened, far too much so to.. I dunno... take Jesus at his word? Again, I don't know u so I can't say if that's what is going on w/ you, but I have made a few observations about people in my own life who have.. acted like they are just too damn smart to be associated with them dadgum Christians...

 

[Anathema]

There is no true faith outside ... the true Faith. And you insult my integrity when you imply that I do not believe anything outside my faith or however u said it..

You don't tell us how your beliefs are different from ours so i really cannot address anything along those lines...

My apologies for offending you. That was not my intention. I only intended to point out that many people of faith never feel any reason to question that faith, no matter what alternative information is provided.

As to my faith… it is a spirituality, not religious. I grew up in a conservative branch of the Lutheran Church (LCMS) but even in my youth I found myself not buying what was being sold to me. As I grew my personal experiences differed significantly from what the church taught. Then I got to watch my father (the most truly faithful man I’ve ever met) wither away and die over three years. At that point I left the Lutheran church and went on a search for my faith. It took almost four years and more discussions with clergy and other spiritualists than I would have imagined. Eventually I came to believe in a version of Spirituality thst is fairly dark and unpleasant. If you really want to get deeper into it, I will; but I’m not here to have my mind changed or to change anyone else’s views.

 

[notmyfault2020]

not necessarily NMF

think 'divided we stand'


~S~

are u saying we should be united w/ leftists?

I don't get it

 

[notmyfault2020]

My apologies for offending you. That was not my intention. I only intended to point out that many people of faith never feel any reason to question that faith, no matter what alternative information is provided.

As to my faith… it is a spirituality, not religious. I grew up in a conservative branch of the Lutheran Church (LCMS) but even in my youth I found myself not buying what was being sold to me. As I grew my personal experiences differed significantly from what the church taught. Then I got to watch my father (the most truly faithful man I’ve ever met) wither away and die over three years. At that point I left the Lutheran church and went on a search for my faith. It took almost four years and more discussions with clergy and other spiritualists than I would have imagined. Eventually I came to believe in a version of Spirituality thst is fairly dark and unpleasant. If you really want to get deeper into it, I will; but I’m not here to have my mind changed or to change anyone else’s views.

Well, the Lutheran faith is not the true Church founded by Christ, so it is really no wonder you didn't buy certain things they taught.. I wish you would tell us what exactly you didn't accept.

About your father. I am very sorry for your loss. I lost mine also not long ago. Are you saying that you lost faith in God or in churches over the loss of your father?

You also don't explain how your spirituality is "fairly dark and unpleasant"

As far as changing anyone's mind... ha ha... that's quite comical vis a vis USMB. Everyone here already knows everything!! True story!

I probably come across that way myself... but hey.. I do know what I know. I am one of the few Christians who says "I know, not just believe" on quite a # of occasions..

 

[Anathema]

Well, the Lutheran faith is not the true Church founded by Christ, so it is really no wonder you didn't buy certain things they taught.. I wish you would tell us what exactly you didn't accept.

A lot of things. Mostly the idea of this “Loving God” of the New Testament. In fact the entire NT seemed like a snake oil salesman’s pitch to me; except for the Book of Revelation.

Are you saying that you lost faith in God or in churches over the loss of your father?

I’m saying it was the last straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back. To see the most good, decent and truly faithful (to family, country and God) man I’ve ever met reduced to a whisp of his former self and for his God to do nothing for him truly stripped me of whatever faith I had left.

You also don't explain how your spirituality is "fairly dark and unpleasant"

I have come to believe in a force that I refer to as “The Divine”. This is a force, not a sentient being. The purpose of this force is to test human Souls to determine if they are worthy to move in to a better existence or to be sentenced to eternal misery. It does this by placing tests, obstacles and impairments in our way to see if we will do what is Right when doing Wrobg would be easier or more immediately beneficial to us. At the end of our lives our souls are judged and with allowed to move on, sentences to eternal torment or sent back here to try again.

 

[notmyfault2020]

A lot of things. Mostly the idea of this “Loving God” of the New Testament. In fact the entire NT seemed like a snake oil salesman’s pitch to me; except for the Book of Revelation.

I’m saying it was the last straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back. To see the most good, decent and truly faithful (to family, country and God) man I’ve ever met reduced to a whisp of his former self and for his God to do nothing for him truly stripped me of whatever faith I had left.

I have come to believe in a force that I refer to as “The Divine”. This is a force, not a sentient being. The purpose of this force is to test human Souls to determine if they are worthy to move in to a better existence or to be sentenced to eternal misery. It does this by placing tests, obstacles and impairments in our way to see if we will do what is Right when doing Wrobg would be easier or more immediately beneficial to us. At the end of our lives our souls are judged and with allowed to move on, sentences to eternal torment or sent back here to try again.

well, I believe the same way as your last sentence except I do not believe in re-incarnation.

And I know what its like to lose a loved one... not just my father. I hated God at one time.. though only for as long as it took to cuss him out.. then i was OK with Him again.. but anyhow.. I hated him for taking the ones I loved from me. And I didn't even have the benefit of knowing they were in heaven... long story that I don't have time to get into... but through this and that turn of events and etc... I don't know how to say it.. don't want to s ay I got over it because you never get over certain things... but I managed to somewhat move on and etc...

When someone dies, it seems like such a tragedy and in many ways it is.. but if that person is in heaven where there is no longer any pain or evil or disease or death..that is NOT a bad thing... that is an excellent thing.

 

[g5000]

What is the worst problem in America today?

The federal debt.

 

[notmyfault2020]

The federal debt.

That's a big problem but the moral thing is bigger

In fact the moral issues led to the debt issues.. If a person or group of person cannot be moral and ethical b4 going to Congress... not likely to be after. And only people w/ integrity should have power over the huge sums of money entrusted to him/her/them by taxpayers. Obviously same cannot be trusted w/ anything -- hence why all is virtually lost or so it seems---