What is your background/interest in the Middle East?

[P F Tinmore]

Rudy

In how many of those cases have the walls NOT followed borders recognised by international law?

It's true the Israeli wall does not follow the 1948 cease-fire line. The actual final legal border is something which would have to be determined in a final peace settlement and is of course intimately linked with a whole series of other issues on which a settlement must be found (Jerusalem, Israeli setllements on the West Bank, water rights, security arrangements, etc.).
In the current state of things the West Bank is a piece of territory which under international law belongs to no state and therefore doesn't have internationally recognized borders. It is however under effective occupation of an internationally recognized state, i.e. Israel.

Palestine has international borders.

 

[Artevelde]

Rudy

In how many of those cases have the walls NOT followed borders recognised by international law?

It's true the Israeli wall does not follow the 1948 cease-fire line. The actual final legal border is something which would have to be determined in a final peace settlement and is of course intimately linked with a whole series of other issues on which a settlement must be found (Jerusalem, Israeli setllements on the West Bank, water rights, security arrangements, etc.).
In the current state of things the West Bank is a piece of territory which under international law belongs to no state and therefore doesn't have internationally recognized borders. It is however under effective occupation of an internationally recognized state, i.e. Israel.

Palestine has international borders.

Newsflash: there is no state of Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It's true the Israeli wall does not follow the 1948 cease-fire line. The actual final legal border is something which would have to be determined in a final peace settlement and is of course intimately linked with a whole series of other issues on which a settlement must be found (Jerusalem, Israeli setllements on the West Bank, water rights, security arrangements, etc.).
In the current state of things the West Bank is a piece of territory which under international law belongs to no state and therefore doesn't have internationally recognized borders. It is however under effective occupation of an internationally recognized state, i.e. Israel.

Palestine has international borders.

Newsflash: there is no state of Palestine.

Then why does it have international borders?

 

[Artevelde]

Palestine has international borders.

Newsflash: there is no state of Palestine.

Then why does it have international borders?

It doesn't. Only states have internationally recognized borders.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Newsflash: there is no state of Palestine.

Then why does it have international borders?

It doesn't. Only states have internationally recognized borders.

If Israel is a state and Palestine is not, why does Israel have to negotiate with Palestine to get borders?

 

[Artevelde]

Then why does it have international borders?

It doesn't. Only states have internationally recognized borders.

If Israel is a state and Palestine is not, why does Israel have to negotiate with Palestine to get borders?

Israel has certain internationally recognized borders. It also controls certain territories which form no part of Israel as a state but also form no part of another state. if a state is to be established in these territories then its borders, including its borders with Israel have to be established.

See, it's fun to be logical isn't it?

 

[P F Tinmore]

It doesn't. Only states have internationally recognized borders.

If Israel is a state and Palestine is not, why does Israel have to negotiate with Palestine to get borders?

Israel has certain internationally recognized borders. It also controls certain territories which form no part of Israel as a state but also form no part of another state. if a state is to be established in these territories then its borders, including its borders with Israel have to be established.

See, it's fun to be logical isn't it?

Israel has certain internationally recognized borders.

Can you document Israel's acquisition of international borders? Where are they?

 

[Artevelde]

If Israel is a state and Palestine is not, why does Israel have to negotiate with Palestine to get borders?

Israel has certain internationally recognized borders. It also controls certain territories which form no part of Israel as a state but also form no part of another state. if a state is to be established in these territories then its borders, including its borders with Israel have to be established.

See, it's fun to be logical isn't it?

Israel has certain internationally recognized borders.

Can you document Israel's acquisition of international borders? Where are they?

You may have heard of countries called Egypt, Jordan, etc?

 

[Saigon]

Rudy

In how many of those cases have the walls NOT followed borders recognised by international law?

It's true the Israeli wall does not follow the 1948 cease-fire line. The actual final legal border is something which would have to be determined in a final peace settlement and is of course intimately linked with a whole series of other issues on which a settlement must be found (Jerusalem, Israeli setllements on the West Bank, water rights, security arrangements, etc.).
In the current state of things the West Bank is a piece of territory which under international law belongs to no state and therefore doesn't have internationally recognized borders. It is however under effective occupation of an internationally recognized state, i.e. Israel.

Yes, absolutely, and that is a good overview.

I have no problem with the wall as a concept, were it built on Israeli land or along an internationally recognised border, but as a means of annexibg land it is crude and clearly illegal.

Why some people here want to deny that, I can't imagine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel has certain internationally recognized borders. It also controls certain territories which form no part of Israel as a state but also form no part of another state. if a state is to be established in these territories then its borders, including its borders with Israel have to be established.

See, it's fun to be logical isn't it?

Israel has certain internationally recognized borders.

Can you document Israel's acquisition of international borders? Where are they?

You may have heard of countries called Egypt, Jordan, etc?

Of course that avoids the questions.

 

[Saigon]

Rudy

In how many of those cases have the walls NOT followed borders recognised by international law?

Not recognized? Israel is recognized as a country by the international community, and therefore as such, it can do as it pleases to protect itself, and not have to go to any authority to "get permission" to do anything. And besides, who cares what "other" countries think, really? After all we have many "countries" including the Mexicans that think the wall between the US and Mexico is "collective punishment" and "dangerous" and "oppressive" blah blah blah. There are even people right here in the US (bleeding heart liberals) that want the wall removed. You are even stupider and less educated than I thought.

Let's go back a step, so maybe you can understand this.

Do you understand what a border is?

Do you know what I mean by 'international recognition' of borders?

If so, do you believe it would be legal for the US to build a wall between, say, Mexicoty City and Oaxaca as a way of protecting US territory?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rudy

In how many of those cases have the walls NOT followed borders recognised by international law?

Not recognized? Israel is recognized as a country by the international community, and therefore as such, it can do as it pleases to protect itself, and not have to go to any authority to "get permission" to do anything. And besides, who cares what "other" countries think, really? After all we have many "countries" including the Mexicans that think the wall between the US and Mexico is "collective punishment" and "dangerous" and "oppressive" blah blah blah. There are even people right here in the US (bleeding heart liberals) that want the wall removed. You are even stupider and less educated than I thought.

Let's go back a step, so maybe you can understand this.

Do you understand what a border is?

Do you know what I mean by 'international recognition' of borders?

If so, do you believe it would be legal for the US to build a wall between, say, Mexicoty City and Oaxaca as a way of protecting US territory?

Good point.

There is a lot of confusion about Israel and borders.

I believe that confusion is deliberate.

 

[Artevelde]

Rudy

In how many of those cases have the walls NOT followed borders recognised by international law?

It's true the Israeli wall does not follow the 1948 cease-fire line. The actual final legal border is something which would have to be determined in a final peace settlement and is of course intimately linked with a whole series of other issues on which a settlement must be found (Jerusalem, Israeli setllements on the West Bank, water rights, security arrangements, etc.).
In the current state of things the West Bank is a piece of territory which under international law belongs to no state and therefore doesn't have internationally recognized borders. It is however under effective occupation of an internationally recognized state, i.e. Israel.

Yes, absolutely, and that is a good overview.

I have no problem with the wall as a concept, were it built on Israeli land or along an internationally recognised border, but as a means of annexibg land it is crude and clearly illegal.

Why some people here want to deny that, I can't imagine.

I take issue with the qualification "illegal". As the occupying power Israel has a de facto right (and to certain extent even an obligation) to take whatever measures are necessary to ensure security. The erection of the wall falls well within that right, as do check-points and the like.

 

[Artevelde]

Not recognized? Israel is recognized as a country by the international community, and therefore as such, it can do as it pleases to protect itself, and not have to go to any authority to "get permission" to do anything. And besides, who cares what "other" countries think, really? After all we have many "countries" including the Mexicans that think the wall between the US and Mexico is "collective punishment" and "dangerous" and "oppressive" blah blah blah. There are even people right here in the US (bleeding heart liberals) that want the wall removed. You are even stupider and less educated than I thought.

Let's go back a step, so maybe you can understand this.

Do you understand what a border is?

Do you know what I mean by 'international recognition' of borders?

If so, do you believe it would be legal for the US to build a wall between, say, Mexicoty City and Oaxaca as a way of protecting US territory?

Good point.

There is a lot of confusion about Israel and borders.

I believe that confusion is deliberate.

On your part it certainly is.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Let's go back a step, so maybe you can understand this.

Do you understand what a border is?

Do you know what I mean by 'international recognition' of borders?

If so, do you believe it would be legal for the US to build a wall between, say, Mexicoty City and Oaxaca as a way of protecting US territory?

Good point.

There is a lot of confusion about Israel and borders.

I believe that confusion is deliberate.

On your part it certainly is.

Seriously, Israel is always dancing around the fact that it has no borders. Defined borders is a key component of a legitimate state but Israel does not have borders.

So, why does Israel have to negotiate with Palestine to get borders?

 

[Artevelde]

Good point.

There is a lot of confusion about Israel and borders.

I believe that confusion is deliberate.

On your part it certainly is.

Seriously, Israel is always dancing around the fact that it has no borders. Defined borders is a key component of a legitimate state but Israel does not have borders.

So, why does Israel have to negotiate with Palestine to get borders?

Just keep lying if you feel more comfortable that way.

 

[P F Tinmore]

On your part it certainly is.

Seriously, Israel is always dancing around the fact that it has no borders. Defined borders is a key component of a legitimate state but Israel does not have borders.

So, why does Israel have to negotiate with Palestine to get borders?

Just keep lying if you feel more comfortable that way.

Can you document Israel's acquisition of international borders? Where are they?

Still dancing?

 

[Artevelde]

Seriously, Israel is always dancing around the fact that it has no borders. Defined borders is a key component of a legitimate state but Israel does not have borders.

So, why does Israel have to negotiate with Palestine to get borders?

Just keep lying if you feel more comfortable that way.

Can you document Israel's acquisition of international borders? Where are they?

Still dancing?

I answered you. I can't help it that you are too much of a dishonest racist to read it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Just keep lying if you feel more comfortable that way.

Can you document Israel's acquisition of international borders? Where are they?

Still dancing?

I answered you. I can't help it that you are too much of a dishonest racist to read it.

I didn't see anything in your posts that would qualify as an answer. Could you point out which one you mean?

 

[Artevelde]

Still dancing?

I answered you. I can't help it that you are too much of a dishonest racist to read it.

I didn't see anything in your posts that would qualify as an answer. Could you point out which one you mean?

number 748 racist liar. Or do you deny that Israel has internationally recognized borders with Egypt and Jordan?