What is your background/interest in the Middle East?

[Roudy]

Honestly, what utter, childish nonsense!! Why do you post guesses when you don't have a clue?

Both Hamas and Hezbollah provide services to citizens who live within their areas of operation, because both are de facto governments in those areas. They also provided services as quasi-NGOs prior to forming de facto governments.

Hezbollah have become hugely and genuinely popular in Southern Lebanon because in many villages are are the only authority which seem to make any effort to help people - why not go and see for yourself?

Actually it seems you have no clue and are totally ignorant. Hamas and Hezbollah receive their funding entirely from those that are enemies of Israel. Rey have used the same playbook to penetrate each society and then take over. This money and arms, etc comes with STRINGS ATTACHED, the strings being no peace with Israel ever, continuous state of war and acts of terror until the entire state of Israel is destroyed, and implementation of strict barbaric Islamc laws and society. and that is exactly what Hamas and Hezbollah are. They are a bunch of Islamic mafia thugs, who's only purpose is to continue the state of war in order to continue getting money for it. There will never be peace with Israel as long as these organizations and their funding from those that want Israel destroyed continues.

Hamas and Hezbollah also recieve funding from the US although it is indirect, you know they get their hands on some of that cash we give the Palestinians and the Lebanese government.

Yes, and they steal most of it, while they use the rest to oppress and commit more terror. We also fund the Pakistanis.

 

[Hossfly]

Roudy -

Here is another story about Christian Nuns who are being cut off from their crops and livelihood.

Again, this is collective punishment, and is directed against innocent people.

BBC News - Bethlehem nuns in West Bank barrier battle

After all the overwhelming evidence of Christian Organizations reporting on how Christians being persecuted and murdered, and their ethnic cleansing by Muslims in Gaza and West Bank, you post a crap video making the Israelis look like the oppressors? Remove your biased head from your ass.

Reasoning and simple logic is foreign to a terrorist enabling Jew hater.

 

[Saigon]

That is true. Israel has bulldozed about 30% of Gaza's agricultural land.

What's true to you is bullshit to most people.

Only because you refuse to study the issue.

I would say 30% is an exaggeration, but obviously the tactic of bulldozing land has been commonplace since Intifada 1, and has been reported by every major news service on earth.

It can't have been easy for you to miss it!!

Here it is from the Guardian UK for you to ignore:

"Israeli forces have demolished the homes of hundreds of Palestinians, bulldozed swaths of agricultural land and destroyed infrastructure in their bloodiest assault on the Gaza Strip in years. "

Israeli assault turns Gaza into battlefield | Guardian Weekly | guardian.co.uk

 

[Saigon]

Reasoning and simple logic is foreign to a terrorist enabling Jew hater.

Please post honestly and coherently.

And please READ THE STORY before commenting.

The story is about ISRAEL cutting off Christians from their crops - nothing to do with Muslims.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Of course it has - on literally hundreds - if not thousands - of occasions!!

Honestly - how can you not know this stuff, and still be too lazy to check?

You can find information on this in dozens of authoritive books, and on hundreds of websites. There is a very fine line between making mistakes because you have not seen the facts, and being deliberately ignorant. I did suggest a book by an Israeli author earlier which provides immense detail - presumably you chose not to read it.

Here is a piece of video - at about 1 minute in, you can see troops destroying crops by hand.

Israeli Police Invade, Destroy vegetable crops and Cut off water supply - YouTube

That didn't look like collective punishment to me. THe video is a piece of propoganda and awful journalism. It could be that the specific lot in question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit, or it could be that a court found the owner of said lot to be guilty of certain violations and or crimes. The other lots remained untouched if you noticed. You are not a very good liar.

Poor quality cell phone videos taken by biased do-gooders are not good journalism IMO. I prefer accredited reporters who interview both sides to get a reasonable story. These bulldozer dodgers jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. Only the Jew haters take these videos as gospel.

How many sides can there be for destroying somebody else's stuff?

 

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

A book written by a Jewish Israeli academic citing several hundred instances of collective punishment was recommended earlier.

Here it is again for you:

Israel/Palestine: How to End the War of 1948: Tanya Reinhart: 9781583225387: Amazon.com: Books

You could also try doing a little research of your own, and get back to us when you are up to speed on the issue. You are under no obligation to understand this issue anymore than Roudy is, and if you'd prefer not to understand it, that is fine with me.

And just what is wrong with my observation? Is there no truth in it?
And as for your persistant urgings to read books, we all read books. This ain't no after school library klatch. It's the school of hard knocks and COMMON SENSE.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel is not bulldozing crops of fields or an entire street in retaliation for terrorism..

Of course it has - on literally hundreds - if not thousands - of occasions!!

Honestly - how can you not know this stuff, and still be too lazy to check?

You can find information on this in dozens of authoritive books, and on hundreds of websites. There is a very fine line between making mistakes because you have not seen the facts, and being deliberately ignorant. I did suggest a book by an Israeli author earlier which provides immense detail - presumably you chose not to read it.

Here is a piece of video - at about 1 minute in, you can see troops destroying crops by hand.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1to70X0FNlo]Israeli Police Invade, Destroy vegetable crops and Cut off water supply - YouTube[/ame]

That didn't look like collective punishment to me. THe video is a piece of propoganda and awful journalism. It could be that the specific lot in question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit, or it could be that a court found the owner of said lot to be guilty of certain violations and or crimes. The other lots remained untouched if you noticed. You are not a very good liar.

...question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit,...

Why should Palestinians be required to get permits from foreigners to work their own land?

 

[Saigon]

Hossfly -

If you read books, you'd know that collective punishment has been part of Israel policy since Intifada 1.

There have been hundreds of well-documented examples covered by virtually any media source you care to watch or listen to. It's been in books, on TV in newspapers and magazines for years.

Both you and Roudy seem to operate from the point of view that if you do not know something, it can not be true. This isn't a great starting point for you to understand what is an incredibly complex issue.

 

[Hossfly]

That didn't look like collective punishment to me. THe video is a piece of propoganda and awful journalism. It could be that the specific lot in question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit, or it could be that a court found the owner of said lot to be guilty of certain violations and or crimes. The other lots remained untouched if you noticed. You are not a very good liar.

Poor quality cell phone videos taken by biased do-gooders are not good journalism IMO. I prefer accredited reporters who interview both sides to get a reasonable story. These bulldozer dodgers jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. Only the Jew haters take these videos as gospel.

How many sides can there be for destroying somebody else's stuff?

In your case there can only be one side, with no variations.You never listen to reason, believe an explanation or put any blame on Palis. Everything is already cut and dried before anything is presented.

 

[Hossfly]

Of course it has - on literally hundreds - if not thousands - of occasions!!

Honestly - how can you not know this stuff, and still be too lazy to check?

You can find information on this in dozens of authoritive books, and on hundreds of websites. There is a very fine line between making mistakes because you have not seen the facts, and being deliberately ignorant. I did suggest a book by an Israeli author earlier which provides immense detail - presumably you chose not to read it.

Here is a piece of video - at about 1 minute in, you can see troops destroying crops by hand.

Israeli Police Invade, Destroy vegetable crops and Cut off water supply - YouTube

That didn't look like collective punishment to me. THe video is a piece of propoganda and awful journalism. It could be that the specific lot in question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit, or it could be that a court found the owner of said lot to be guilty of certain violations and or crimes. The other lots remained untouched if you noticed. You are not a very good liar.

...question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit,...

Why should Palestinians be required to get permits from foreigners to work their own land?

What rules in certain areas are the Palis governed by and do they have to abide by said rules?

 

[Saigon]

In your case there can only be one side, with no variations.You never listen to reason, believe an explanation or put any blame on Palis. Everything is already cut and dried before anything is presented.

Which is exactly what you and Roudy do in reverse, isn't it?!

As I've said before on this thread, the only way to understand this conflict is to understand that both sides have, at times, committed appalling acts of violence which simply can not and should not be denied or apologised for.

Both sides have also been the victims of terrible crimes, and have the right to seek sympathy and understanding from the west for those crimes.

Attempting to blame one side for everything - as virtually everyone on this thread seems to want to do - only demonstrates that you have misunderstood the very nature of the conflict.

 

[P F Tinmore]

That didn't look like collective punishment to me. THe video is a piece of propoganda and awful journalism. It could be that the specific lot in question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit, or it could be that a court found the owner of said lot to be guilty of certain violations and or crimes. The other lots remained untouched if you noticed. You are not a very good liar.

...question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit,...

Why should Palestinians be required to get permits from foreigners to work their own land?

What rules in certain areas are the Palis governed by and do they have to abide by said rules?

Of course that does not answer the question.

 

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

If you read books, you'd know that collective punishment has been part of Israel policy since Intifada 1.

There have been hundreds of well-documented examples covered by virtually any media source you care to watch or listen to. It's been in books, on TV in newspapers and magazines for years.

Both you and Roudy seem to operate from the point of view that if you do not know something, it can not be true. This isn't a great starting point for you to understand what is an incredibly complex issue.

You are always lecturing people that you have no knowledge about.
Do you not remember what I said about the mouse at the beginning of this thread?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Poor quality cell phone videos taken by biased do-gooders are not good journalism IMO. I prefer accredited reporters who interview both sides to get a reasonable story. These bulldozer dodgers jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. Only the Jew haters take these videos as gospel.

How many sides can there be for destroying somebody else's stuff?

In your case there can only be one side, with no variations.You never listen to reason, believe an explanation or put any blame on Palis. Everything is already cut and dried before anything is presented.

Palestine is occupied by Israel.

That is both sides.

 

[Hossfly]

Why should Palestinians be required to get permits from foreigners to work their own land?

What rules in certain areas are the Palis governed by and do they have to abide by said rules?

Of course that does not answer the question.

It sure as hell would. Go ahead and try for once. Break your cherry, bimbo.

 

[Saigon]

Hossfly -

If you come up with a sensible response to the issue of collective punishment, I'll respond to it.

Both the BBC and Guardian stories linked here are well worth a read...as is the Israel/Palestine book.

 

[Hossfly]

Hossfly -

If you come up with a sensible response to the issue of collective punishment, I'll respond to it.

Both the BBC and Guardian stories linked here are well worth a read...as is the Israel/Palestine book.

I spent a career in the US Army so you can believe and know I don't believe in collective punishment. It is the sign of authoritarian leadership. If Israel uses CP, that is their decision. It does get attention.

 

[Artevelde]

It's pretty stupid to deny facts. Israel has never denied that it uses certain forms of collective punishment, although there is debate within Israel over this issue.

That being said, not everything that is called "collective punishment" is and there can be circumstances in which collective punishment is unavoidable. But on the whole it's a fairly ineffective tactic.

 

[Roudy]

That is true. Israel has bulldozed about 30% of Gaza's agricultural land.

What's true to you is bullshit to most people.

Only because you refuse to study the issue.

I would say 30% is an exaggeration, but obviously the tactic of bulldozing land has been commonplace since Intifada 1, and has been reported by every major news service on earth.

It can't have been easy for you to miss it!!

Here it is from the Guardian UK for you to ignore:

"Israeli forces have demolished the homes of hundreds of Palestinians, bulldozed swaths of agricultural land and destroyed infrastructure in their bloodiest assault on the Gaza Strip in years. "

Israeli assault turns Gaza into battlefield | Guardian Weekly | guardian.co.uk

Arabs joined forces to destroy Israel entirely and lost. The aggressions against Israel were never to create a Palestinian state but rather to divide the proceeds between the attacking nations. Meaning those fake Arabs calling themselves Palestinians never owned the land. The Arabs lost those wars, and Israel managed to actually conquer some land as a result of its victories. That's how it went down, and as far as I'm concerned Israel can do as it pleases with the land. Or maybe it should have done what king Hussein did in 1971, massacre 25,000 Palestinains? I'm wondering if the Arabs would have won how many millions of Jews would be slaughtered, their lands and assets stolen and seized, just like Arabs did when they ethnically cleansed Ancient Jewish populations in their own countries in the 1940's?

 

[Lipush]

That didn't look like collective punishment to me. THe video is a piece of propoganda and awful journalism. It could be that the specific lot in question was occupied illegally, as in without a permit, or it could be that a court found the owner of said lot to be guilty of certain violations and or crimes. The other lots remained untouched if you noticed. You are not a very good liar.

Poor quality cell phone videos taken by biased do-gooders are not good journalism IMO. I prefer accredited reporters who interview both sides to get a reasonable story. These bulldozer dodgers jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. Only the Jew haters take these videos as gospel.

How many sides can there be for destroying somebody else's stuff?

If its fake,or half the story- many.