What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating #1

[Syphon]

And think how much more you could be putting into that 401K if you were receiving that 15+% social security deduction instead of it going to the feds. (I know, your employer has to pay half of it, but if he didn't have to pay that, he would be able to pay the employees more and many would.) My husband and I being self employed for the last several years of our working life had to pay it all and it would have been great to have had it to put into our 401Ks.

America has never just allowed people to starve but have always been the most generous and giving of any society on Earth. That was true before there were entitlements and that would be true after entitlements ended. The most significant thing that separates conservatism and liberalism is that liberals seem to think if the federal government doesn't do it, it won't get done. Conservatives believe that there are far better ways to do most things than leaving it to the federal government to do. Most especailly since the federal government swallows up huge amounts of resources just to feed its own bloated bureaucracy and that money isn't then available to help anybody.

A person who put 7 to 10% of his/her wages into an intellegently managed and invested 401K beginning in his/her 20's will almost certainly retire a millionaire. And the money is his/hers to be used as s/he sees fit and to leave to his/her heirs if there is money left over.

A person who depends only on social security will likely retire below or close to the poverty line, will likely qualify for food stamps, and the money is not his/hers to use as s/he sees fit but is doled out in pittances by the government who, by the way, does not HAVE to pay it but could legally end the program at any time and confiscate the money for any other purpose. And if you die before you collect social security or before you collect all that you paid in, the government keeps it. Your heirs don't get it. It is gone. Swallowed up in the bureaucracy.

There simply has to be a better way.

social security is currently a 4.2% deduction for employee, the employer pays 6.2%
Social Security Withholding - Payroll Tax Holiday for 2011 and 2012

And that is a temporary rate established as a bone the President threw to us so he could claim that he cut taxes. Why cut it on social security that is already gushing red ink is anybody's guess, but the tax (including Medicare tax) will go back up to a combined employee/employer rate of 15.3% if the Congress doesn't keep renewing the tax relief. And you can just about guarantee they won't renew it if there is a Republican president and a Democratically controlled House or Senate beginning in January because the Democrats will call it a tax hike and blame it on the President.

still the employee rate is only 6.2%. not 15% like you claim. its a failed argument to say that the employer would give the employee a 6.2% raise just because he does not have to pay the employee portion of ss anymore

the medicare tax, is not part of ss. you need to differentiate your argument. are you talking about ss, medicare, medicaid, or all federal taxes?

if you are talking about ss, all employees would see is either a 4.2% or 6.2% increase in before tax earning. this money would be taxable as income though under income tax rules.

technically it will be a tax hike whenever it goes back to the 6.2% rate. the same way the republicans are saying that when the bus tax cuts expire there is going to be a tax hike on everyone. not sure what your point of the argument is here....

can you try all you want to prove that employees would get a 15% pay increase just because ss is gone, but that doesnt make it true

 

[Listening]

social security is currently a 4.2% deduction for employee, the employer pays 6.2%
Social Security Withholding - Payroll Tax Holiday for 2011 and 2012

And that is a temporary rate established as a bone the President threw to us so he could claim that he cut taxes. Why cut it on social security that is already gushing red ink is anybody's guess, but the tax (including Medicare tax) will go back up to a combined employee/employer rate of 15.3% if the Congress doesn't keep renewing the tax relief. And you can just about guarantee they won't renew it if there is a Republican president and a Democratically controlled House or Senate beginning in January because the Democrats will call it a tax hike and blame it on the President.

still the employee rate is only 6.2%. not 15% like you claim. its a failed argument to say that the employer would give the employee a 6.2% raise just because he does not have to pay the employee portion of ss anymore

the medicare tax, is not part of ss. you need to differentiate your argument. are you talking about ss, medicare, medicaid, or all federal taxes?

if you are talking about ss, all employees would see is either a 4.2% or 6.2% increase in before tax earning. this money would be taxable as income though under income tax rules.

technically it will be a tax hike whenever it goes back to the 6.2% rate. the same way the republicans are saying that when the bus tax cuts expire there is going to be a tax hike on everyone. not sure what your point of the argument is here....

can you try all you want to prove that employees would get a 15% pay increase just because ss is gone, but that doesnt make it true

Well there 5th grade genius....do you know what independent contractors pay in SS ?

I'll give you a hint......

 

[Foxfyre]

social security is currently a 4.2% deduction for employee, the employer pays 6.2%
Social Security Withholding - Payroll Tax Holiday for 2011 and 2012

And that is a temporary rate established as a bone the President threw to us so he could claim that he cut taxes. Why cut it on social security that is already gushing red ink is anybody's guess, but the tax (including Medicare tax) will go back up to a combined employee/employer rate of 15.3% if the Congress doesn't keep renewing the tax relief. And you can just about guarantee they won't renew it if there is a Republican president and a Democratically controlled House or Senate beginning in January because the Democrats will call it a tax hike and blame it on the President.

still the employee rate is only 6.2%. not 15% like you claim. its a failed argument to say that the employer would give the employee a 6.2% raise just because he does not have to pay the employee portion of ss anymore

the medicare tax, is not part of ss. you need to differentiate your argument. are you talking about ss, medicare, medicaid, or all federal taxes?

if you are talking about ss, all employees would see is either a 4.2% or 6.2% increase in before tax earning. this money would be taxable as income though under income tax rules.

technically it will be a tax hike whenever it goes back to the 6.2% rate. the same way the republicans are saying that when the bus tax cuts expire there is going to be a tax hike on everyone. not sure what your point of the argument is here....

can you try all you want to prove that employees would get a 15% pay increase just because ss is gone, but that doesnt make it true

And that is what makes arguing with liberals soooooo frustrating. Rather than seeing the big picture over a lifetime of work as I presented it, you nitpick a temporary and artificial blip in the social security tax rate. Which makes it all that much more difficult to believe that you earn that six figure income you claim that you earn. Your perceptions are much more like those of a child who has never worked for wages in his/her life, or who does not understand the deductions from the wages shown on his/her pay stub. The rate was much much lower than now when I first started working and has increased incrementally over the years.

But evenso, I was referring to those now in their 20's who are just starting out on their careers. If I had invested the amount of the employee/employer contributions when I first started out, even at those much lower rates, I would have retired a millionaire. And much moreso would those starting out on their working career now. And the money would be ours to further invest or live on or spend to have fun or whatever we wanted to do, and any left over when we died could be passed on to our heirs. But when the government takes that money, regardless of who pays it, it is not available for anybody to invest in anything.

I doubt you will understand or accept that concept. But some reading along here will.

 

[Syphon]

And that is a temporary rate established as a bone the President threw to us so he could claim that he cut taxes. Why cut it on social security that is already gushing red ink is anybody's guess, but the tax (including Medicare tax) will go back up to a combined employee/employer rate of 15.3% if the Congress doesn't keep renewing the tax relief. And you can just about guarantee they won't renew it if there is a Republican president and a Democratically controlled House or Senate beginning in January because the Democrats will call it a tax hike and blame it on the President.

still the employee rate is only 6.2%. not 15% like you claim. its a failed argument to say that the employer would give the employee a 6.2% raise just because he does not have to pay the employee portion of ss anymore

the medicare tax, is not part of ss. you need to differentiate your argument. are you talking about ss, medicare, medicaid, or all federal taxes?

if you are talking about ss, all employees would see is either a 4.2% or 6.2% increase in before tax earning. this money would be taxable as income though under income tax rules.

technically it will be a tax hike whenever it goes back to the 6.2% rate. the same way the republicans are saying that when the bus tax cuts expire there is going to be a tax hike on everyone. not sure what your point of the argument is here....

can you try all you want to prove that employees would get a 15% pay increase just because ss is gone, but that doesnt make it true

Well there 5th grade genius....do you know what independent contractors pay in SS ?

I'll give you a hint......

they pay used to pay 12.4%, which is 6.2% for the employee and 6.2% for the employer...... (technically right now it is 10.4% since the rate was lowered) still not 15%.....

damn that 5th grade education isnt working out too well for you.......

Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?

http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php..._Contractors,_and_Self-employed_(2004_IRS_FAQ)

victory to the 5th graders....... wanna keep diggin that hole?

 

[Syphon]

And that is a temporary rate established as a bone the President threw to us so he could claim that he cut taxes. Why cut it on social security that is already gushing red ink is anybody's guess, but the tax (including Medicare tax) will go back up to a combined employee/employer rate of 15.3% if the Congress doesn't keep renewing the tax relief. And you can just about guarantee they won't renew it if there is a Republican president and a Democratically controlled House or Senate beginning in January because the Democrats will call it a tax hike and blame it on the President.

still the employee rate is only 6.2%. not 15% like you claim. its a failed argument to say that the employer would give the employee a 6.2% raise just because he does not have to pay the employee portion of ss anymore

the medicare tax, is not part of ss. you need to differentiate your argument. are you talking about ss, medicare, medicaid, or all federal taxes?

if you are talking about ss, all employees would see is either a 4.2% or 6.2% increase in before tax earning. this money would be taxable as income though under income tax rules.

technically it will be a tax hike whenever it goes back to the 6.2% rate. the same way the republicans are saying that when the bus tax cuts expire there is going to be a tax hike on everyone. not sure what your point of the argument is here....

can you try all you want to prove that employees would get a 15% pay increase just because ss is gone, but that doesnt make it true

And that is what makes arguing with liberals soooooo frustrating. Rather than seeing the big picture over a lifetime of work as I presented it, you nitpick a temporary and artificial blip in the social security tax rate. Which makes it all that much more difficult to believe that you earn that six figure income you claim that you earn. Your perceptions are much more like those of a child who has never worked for wages in his/her life, or who does not understand the deductions from the wages shown on his/her pay stub. The rate was much much lower than now when I first started working and has increased incrementally over the years.

But evenso, I was referring to those now in their 20's who are just starting out on their careers. If I had invested the amount of the employee/employer contributions when I first started out, even at those much lower rates, I would have retired a millionaire. And much moreso would those starting out on their working career now. And the money would be ours to further invest or live on or spend to have fun or whatever we wanted to do, and any left over when we died could be passed on to our heirs. But when the government takes that money, regardless of who pays it, it is not available for anybody to invest in anything.

I doubt you will understand or accept that concept. But some reading along here will.

youre the one who cant keep a consistent argument. are you talking about SS or are you talking about Medicare, Medicaid and SS combined?

regardless the SS tax rate is 12.4% in which 6.2% is paid by the employee and 6.2% is paid by the employer.
if you want to add up all the taxes and talk about them, then just be consistent.
you claimed that SS taxes add up to 15%, they currently do not.
SS, Medicare and Medicaid equal 7.65% total for the employee and 7.65% for the employer.
that total is in fact 15.30%. so technically self employed individuals pay 15.3%, but it is suppose to be split into 7.65% for the individual and 7.65% by the company. but i dont expect you to understand any of this.

obviously ss needs to be reformed, but at least have a decent argument that stays consistent in what you are trying to prove.

 

[Vidi]

Social security was never supposed to be the retirement plan. It's meant to supplement what we save on our own. It's a safety net meant to prevent our elderly from starving in the streets.

Also, the payroll tax cut is really just minimizing our contributions into Social Security. While I understand why Obama thought it could help the economy, it's a bad idea and the longer it continues the more it effects social security negatively.

We should also end the Bush Era tax cuts, not just for the rich, but for everyone. After this recession, we should have all learned the lesson that cutting back can only get you so far, you also have to increase your income to deal with your debt in a timely fashion.

We can't cut our way to prosperity. Anyone that tells you that is lying or selling something.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You know, I do see that from Libs.
I see the same hyperbole from Conservs too though. For example, if a Lib wants more reasonable gun laws, many Conservs immediately go into hysterics screaming "That's the road to destruction! The next step will be taking all the guns away!"
So both sides do it all the time.

Have you considered that it might be that what YOU consider "reasonable gun control" is, in fact, one step away from gun-grabbing? It's not disagreeing with something that makes it hyperbole.

I consider not carrying machine guns into bars reasonable. There I go, "gun-grabbing"!

And WHY do you consider that reasonable? Because you think your fellow Americans can't be trusted?

I'm going to ignore, for the moment, the inevitable leftist need to go insanely extreme on everything. "Opposing gun control laws means you want machine guns in bars!" Pathetic.

No. You're wrong. There are whackjobs on both sides. Lots of Conservatives here are complete whackjobs who use hyperbole all the time. If you don't like Ron Paul, you're a statist who hates freedom. If you have a friend who happens to be Muslim, you're a terrorist by association. If you thought the government health care you got in the Navy seemed pretty good, you want the government to control your whole life. Lots of whacky BS like that from lots of Conservative posters. Exactly the stuff the OP claims only Libs do.
The Conservative whackjobs are absolutely no different than this RightWingConspiracy fellow who claims I'm an evil corporate bastardwho hates the Earth because he found out I own a successful company and drive a Mercedes S-Class. Or the guy who said i hate American workers when I dared to claim that the Teamsters might not be holy and the UAW has abused its' power.
Both sides are the same to Independents. While we focus on the merit of an issue or the logic of a position, the extremists attack anything that doesn't fall in line with the opinions fed to them by their thought masters.

::snore:: Sorry, Sparky, that doesn't work. When your response is always "Hang the right, because they do it too" and "It's no big deal on the left, because everyone does it", the only person stupid enough for you to fool is you.

 

[Syphon]

Have you considered that it might be that what YOU consider "reasonable gun control" is, in fact, one step away from gun-grabbing? It's not disagreeing with something that makes it hyperbole.

I consider not carrying machine guns into bars reasonable. There I go, "gun-grabbing"!

And WHY do you consider that reasonable? Because you think your fellow Americans can't be trusted?

I'm going to ignore, for the moment, the inevitable leftist need to go insanely extreme on everything. "Opposing gun control laws means you want machine guns in bars!" Pathetic.

No. You're wrong. There are whackjobs on both sides. Lots of Conservatives here are complete whackjobs who use hyperbole all the time. If you don't like Ron Paul, you're a statist who hates freedom. If you have a friend who happens to be Muslim, you're a terrorist by association. If you thought the government health care you got in the Navy seemed pretty good, you want the government to control your whole life. Lots of whacky BS like that from lots of Conservative posters. Exactly the stuff the OP claims only Libs do.
The Conservative whackjobs are absolutely no different than this RightWingConspiracy fellow who claims I'm an evil corporate bastardwho hates the Earth because he found out I own a successful company and drive a Mercedes S-Class. Or the guy who said i hate American workers when I dared to claim that the Teamsters might not be holy and the UAW has abused its' power.
Both sides are the same to Independents. While we focus on the merit of an issue or the logic of a position, the extremists attack anything that doesn't fall in line with the opinions fed to them by their thought masters.

::snore:: Sorry, Sparky, that doesn't work. When your response is always "Hang the right, because they do it too" and "It's no big deal on the left, because everyone does it", the only person stupid enough for you to fool is you.

why does a reasonable person need a machine gun? its not exactly used for hunting or sport shooting now is it?

pretty sure the obvious right wing response will be, cause i want one and it is protected by the 2nd amendment. so why not give everyone guns, grenades, land mines, rocket launchers, tanks and nukes.

 

[Vidi]

Have you considered that it might be that what YOU consider "reasonable gun control" is, in fact, one step away from gun-grabbing? It's not disagreeing with something that makes it hyperbole.

I consider not carrying machine guns into bars reasonable. There I go, "gun-grabbing"!

And WHY do you consider that reasonable? Because you think your fellow Americans can't be trusted?

I'm going to ignore, for the moment, the inevitable leftist need to go insanely extreme on everything. "Opposing gun control laws means you want machine guns in bars!" Pathetic.

No. You're wrong. There are whackjobs on both sides. Lots of Conservatives here are complete whackjobs who use hyperbole all the time. If you don't like Ron Paul, you're a statist who hates freedom. If you have a friend who happens to be Muslim, you're a terrorist by association. If you thought the government health care you got in the Navy seemed pretty good, you want the government to control your whole life. Lots of whacky BS like that from lots of Conservative posters. Exactly the stuff the OP claims only Libs do.
The Conservative whackjobs are absolutely no different than this RightWingConspiracy fellow who claims I'm an evil corporate bastardwho hates the Earth because he found out I own a successful company and drive a Mercedes S-Class. Or the guy who said i hate American workers when I dared to claim that the Teamsters might not be holy and the UAW has abused its' power.
Both sides are the same to Independents. While we focus on the merit of an issue or the logic of a position, the extremists attack anything that doesn't fall in line with the opinions fed to them by their thought masters.

::snore:: Sorry, Sparky, that doesn't work. When your response is always "Hang the right, because they do it too" and "It's no big deal on the left, because everyone does it", the only person stupid enough for you to fool is you.

Yes yes both sides engage in hyperbole. Two wrongs don't make a right. No it's you! No its you! Blah blah blah blah blah.

Boooooooooring.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I consider not carrying machine guns into bars reasonable. There I go, "gun-grabbing"!

And WHY do you consider that reasonable? Because you think your fellow Americans can't be trusted?

I'm going to ignore, for the moment, the inevitable leftist need to go insanely extreme on everything. "Opposing gun control laws means you want machine guns in bars!" Pathetic.

No. You're wrong. There are whackjobs on both sides. Lots of Conservatives here are complete whackjobs who use hyperbole all the time. If you don't like Ron Paul, you're a statist who hates freedom. If you have a friend who happens to be Muslim, you're a terrorist by association. If you thought the government health care you got in the Navy seemed pretty good, you want the government to control your whole life. Lots of whacky BS like that from lots of Conservative posters. Exactly the stuff the OP claims only Libs do.
The Conservative whackjobs are absolutely no different than this RightWingConspiracy fellow who claims I'm an evil corporate bastardwho hates the Earth because he found out I own a successful company and drive a Mercedes S-Class. Or the guy who said i hate American workers when I dared to claim that the Teamsters might not be holy and the UAW has abused its' power.
Both sides are the same to Independents. While we focus on the merit of an issue or the logic of a position, the extremists attack anything that doesn't fall in line with the opinions fed to them by their thought masters.

::snore:: Sorry, Sparky, that doesn't work. When your response is always "Hang the right, because they do it too" and "It's no big deal on the left, because everyone does it", the only person stupid enough for you to fool is you.

why does a reasonable person need a machine gun? its not exactly used for hunting or sport shooting now is it?

pretty sure the obvious right wing response will be, cause i want one and it is protected by the 2nd amendment. so why not give everyone guns, grenades, land mines, rocket launchers, tanks and nukes.

My mistake. There WAS another person stupid enough for IL to fool.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I consider not carrying machine guns into bars reasonable. There I go, "gun-grabbing"!

And WHY do you consider that reasonable? Because you think your fellow Americans can't be trusted?

I'm going to ignore, for the moment, the inevitable leftist need to go insanely extreme on everything. "Opposing gun control laws means you want machine guns in bars!" Pathetic.

No. You're wrong. There are whackjobs on both sides. Lots of Conservatives here are complete whackjobs who use hyperbole all the time. If you don't like Ron Paul, you're a statist who hates freedom. If you have a friend who happens to be Muslim, you're a terrorist by association. If you thought the government health care you got in the Navy seemed pretty good, you want the government to control your whole life. Lots of whacky BS like that from lots of Conservative posters. Exactly the stuff the OP claims only Libs do.
The Conservative whackjobs are absolutely no different than this RightWingConspiracy fellow who claims I'm an evil corporate bastardwho hates the Earth because he found out I own a successful company and drive a Mercedes S-Class. Or the guy who said i hate American workers when I dared to claim that the Teamsters might not be holy and the UAW has abused its' power.
Both sides are the same to Independents. While we focus on the merit of an issue or the logic of a position, the extremists attack anything that doesn't fall in line with the opinions fed to them by their thought masters.

::snore:: Sorry, Sparky, that doesn't work. When your response is always "Hang the right, because they do it too" and "It's no big deal on the left, because everyone does it", the only person stupid enough for you to fool is you.

Yes yes both sides engage in hyperbole. Two wrongs don't make a right. No it's you! No its you! Blah blah blah blah blah.

Boooooooooring.

Yes, yes, lefties always want to talk about what "both sides" do, but only want to excoriate one side for doing it . . . and then have a million different ways to avoid EVER addressing it.

The more you talk, the more you prove my point, so by all means, keep it up.

 

[Listening]

still the employee rate is only 6.2%. not 15% like you claim. its a failed argument to say that the employer would give the employee a 6.2% raise just because he does not have to pay the employee portion of ss anymore

the medicare tax, is not part of ss. you need to differentiate your argument. are you talking about ss, medicare, medicaid, or all federal taxes?

if you are talking about ss, all employees would see is either a 4.2% or 6.2% increase in before tax earning. this money would be taxable as income though under income tax rules.

technically it will be a tax hike whenever it goes back to the 6.2% rate. the same way the republicans are saying that when the bus tax cuts expire there is going to be a tax hike on everyone. not sure what your point of the argument is here....

can you try all you want to prove that employees would get a 15% pay increase just because ss is gone, but that doesnt make it true

Well there 5th grade genius....do you know what independent contractors pay in SS ?

I'll give you a hint......

they pay used to pay 12.4%, which is 6.2% for the employee and 6.2% for the employer...... (technically right now it is 10.4% since the rate was lowered) still not 15%.....

damn that 5th grade education isnt working out too well for you.......

Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?

http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php..._Contractors,_and_Self-employed_(2004_IRS_FAQ)

victory to the 5th graders....... wanna keep diggin that hole?

Can't wiggle out from this one stupidass.

They pay both sides. Your claim that they would not realize the other half is bogus. Some will.

Fail.

BTW: Still waiting for at least on sentence from Federalist 10, master(de)bater.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Well there 5th grade genius....do you know what independent contractors pay in SS ?

I'll give you a hint......

they pay used to pay 12.4%, which is 6.2% for the employee and 6.2% for the employer...... (technically right now it is 10.4% since the rate was lowered) still not 15%.....

damn that 5th grade education isnt working out too well for you.......

Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?

http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php..._Contractors,_and_Self-employed_(2004_IRS_FAQ)

victory to the 5th graders....... wanna keep diggin that hole?

Can't wiggle out from this one stupidass.

You are right - he cannot wiggle away from his stupidass.
It's attached, see...

 

[Syphon]

And WHY do you consider that reasonable? Because you think your fellow Americans can't be trusted?

I'm going to ignore, for the moment, the inevitable leftist need to go insanely extreme on everything. "Opposing gun control laws means you want machine guns in bars!" Pathetic.



::snore:: Sorry, Sparky, that doesn't work. When your response is always "Hang the right, because they do it too" and "It's no big deal on the left, because everyone does it", the only person stupid enough for you to fool is you.

why does a reasonable person need a machine gun? its not exactly used for hunting or sport shooting now is it?

pretty sure the obvious right wing response will be, cause i want one and it is protected by the 2nd amendment. so why not give everyone guns, grenades, land mines, rocket launchers, tanks and nukes.

My mistake. There WAS another person stupid enough for IL to fool.

oh typical right wing response....... no answer as usual......

 

[Syphon]

Well there 5th grade genius....do you know what independent contractors pay in SS ?

I'll give you a hint......

they used to pay 12.4%, which is 6.2% for the employee and 6.2% for the employer...... (technically right now it is 10.4% since the rate was lowered) still not 15%.....

damn that 5th grade education isnt working out too well for you.......

Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?

http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php..._Contractors,_and_Self-employed_(2004_IRS_FAQ)

victory to the 5th graders....... wanna keep diggin that hole?

Can't wiggle out from this one stupidass.

They pay both sides. Your claim that they would not realize the other half is bogus. Some will.

Fail.

BTW: Still waiting for at least on sentence from Federalist 10, master(de)bater.

really did you not get the part that obviously said they pay 6.2% for the employee and 6.2% for the employer, which is actually both sides. wow, you just got downgraded to not being smarter than a 3rd grader... cant escape that moment of stupidity can you....

they used to pay 12.4%, which is 6.2% for the employee and 6.2% for the employer...... (technically right now it is 10.4% since the rate was lowered) still not 15%.....


you have a little something left on your chin you might wanna wipe off.....

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

can you try all you want to prove that employees would get a 15% pay increase just because ss is gone, but that doesnt make it true

it would be close to 15%, average Americans could retire with $1-2 million estate, and $5-10k per month rather than the dog food money they get now if they live long enough to collect a penny.


Republican capitalism made us rich, then the liberals stole all the money!!

 

[Listening]

they used to pay 12.4%, which is 6.2% for the employee and 6.2% for the employer...... (technically right now it is 10.4% since the rate was lowered) still not 15%.....

damn that 5th grade education isnt working out too well for you.......

Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?

http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php..._Contractors,_and_Self-employed_(2004_IRS_FAQ)

victory to the 5th graders....... wanna keep diggin that hole?

Can't wiggle out from this one stupidass.

They pay both sides. Your claim that they would not realize the other half is bogus. Some will.

Fail.

BTW: Still waiting for at least on sentence from Federalist 10, master(de)bater.

really did you not get the part that obviously said they pay 6.2% for the employee and 6.2% for the employer, which is actually both sides. wow, you just got downgraded to not being smarter than a 3rd grader... cant escape that moment of stupidity can you....

they used to pay 12.4%, which is 6.2% for the employee and 6.2% for the employer...... (technically right now it is 10.4% since the rate was lowered) still not 15%.....


you have a little something left on your chin you might wanna wipe off.....

Bwahahahahahahaha.....

Still missing Federalist 10.

And you are still a liar for arguing they could not get it back.

It must be tough to live in a world where people look down on you just for breathing.

Pull your head out of your ass.....at least the air is cleaner.

No wonder people think we need government programs. With people like you around, it's very clear that some Americans need people to do everything for them (my guess is you got your head stuck in your ass watching your nanny wipe it).

Parents should be put in jail for raising morons like you.

 

[Listening]

can you try all you want to prove that employees would get a 15% pay increase just because ss is gone, but that doesnt make it true

it would be close to 15%, average Americans could retire with $1-2 million estate, and $5-10k per month rather than the dog food money they get now if they live long enough to collect a penny.


Republican capitalism made us rich, then the liberals stole all the money!!

When all is said and done, they could easily recover what is put aside for them by their employer. Our resident dumbass just needs to hold the party line in spite of the fact that his side lost any credibiltiy a long long time ago.

HOPE we get another CHANGE this November.

 

[UpAndAbout]

I consider not carrying machine guns into bars reasonable. There I go, "gun-grabbing"!

And WHY do you consider that reasonable? Because you think your fellow Americans can't be trusted?

I'm going to ignore, for the moment, the inevitable leftist need to go insanely extreme on everything. "Opposing gun control laws means you want machine guns in bars!" Pathetic.

No. You're wrong. There are whackjobs on both sides. Lots of Conservatives here are complete whackjobs who use hyperbole all the time. If you don't like Ron Paul, you're a statist who hates freedom. If you have a friend who happens to be Muslim, you're a terrorist by association. If you thought the government health care you got in the Navy seemed pretty good, you want the government to control your whole life. Lots of whacky BS like that from lots of Conservative posters. Exactly the stuff the OP claims only Libs do.
The Conservative whackjobs are absolutely no different than this RightWingConspiracy fellow who claims I'm an evil corporate bastardwho hates the Earth because he found out I own a successful company and drive a Mercedes S-Class. Or the guy who said i hate American workers when I dared to claim that the Teamsters might not be holy and the UAW has abused its' power.
Both sides are the same to Independents. While we focus on the merit of an issue or the logic of a position, the extremists attack anything that doesn't fall in line with the opinions fed to them by their thought masters.

::snore:: Sorry, Sparky, that doesn't work. When your response is always "Hang the right, because they do it too" and "It's no big deal on the left, because everyone does it", the only person stupid enough for you to fool is you.

why does a reasonable person need a machine gun? its not exactly used for hunting or sport shooting now is it?
pretty sure the obvious right wing response will be, cause i want one and it is protected by the 2nd amendment. so why not give everyone guns, grenades, land mines, rocket launchers, tanks and nukes.

What in the hell business of YOURS whether I have a machine gun or not? It is NOT YOUR BUSINESS. As long as I don't come after you with it and shoot you, it is none of your damn business. My son-in-law is a gun collector. He has all manner of guns that date back even to the Civil War. And yes he has an AK-47. It does not shoot, he puts them together himself and he does not SHOOT with any of them, they are a collection for history purposes. I can promise you one thing. If Obummer gets reelected and this country heads more and more towards socialism and takng away one freedom after the next, you can bet your boots there will come a time when we will say enough is enough and then you WILL see "grenades, land mines, tanks, etc." You think I'm kidding? Remember when they did to Nicolai whathisname of Romania? they took all they could of him.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

can you try all you want to prove that employees would get a 15% pay increase just because ss is gone, but that doesnt make it true

it would be close to 15%, average Americans could retire with $1-2 million estate, and $5-10k per month rather than the dog food money they get now if they live long enough to collect a penny.


Republican capitalism made us rich, then the liberals stole all the money!!

When all is said and done, they could easily recover what is put aside for them by their employer.



Our resident dumbass just needs to hold the party line in spite of the fact that his side lost any credibiltiy a long long time ago.

HOPE we get another CHANGE this November.

Yes, competition would force employers to lower prices or pay higher wages if Social Security were defeated. Probably government would mandate employer contributions, at first anyway, to private accounts during the transition to be sure retirement accounts were funded.

I heard the VP say on TV that SS is not in bad shape! How can that be when the government is $16 trillion in debt, the trust fund was stolen, and 10,000 people retire each day? Only a liberal could say that with a straight face.