What "rights" does nature give us?

[High_Gravity]

With all this talk about "natural" rights..I was wondering. What are they?

To have sex? eat? drink? breath?

 

[Koios]

With all this talk about "natural" rights..I was wondering. What are they?

To have sex? eat? drink? breath?

Not necessarily. Sex requires someone else, willing or unwilling. Eat works as long as no one takes your food away from you. Breath works only as long as no one chokes you out.

And how we make sure that most goes well, most of the time, is by having laws and penalties for disobeying the laws. Thus folks who are law-abiding (most of us) don't do what we've come to call breaking laws that protect individuals: violating our rights.

 

[Meathead]

With all this talk about "natural" rights..I was wondering. What are they?

To have sex? eat? drink? breath?

That is reflex so natural not be a right. In the end, the only natural "right "we have is to defend ourselves. That too is part and parcel of life.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Our nature has evolved and with it our concepts. With our concepts of right and wrong we invented natural rights.

Exactly.

You only have those privileges the government grants.

Benito Mussolini

.

Rights are recognized by people. You can say you have a fright, but unless others agree try exercising it.

Governments like Italy under Mussolini do not resemble representative republics like the USA.

Why do you hate the USA?

 

[Koios]

Our nature has evolved and with it our concepts. With our concepts of right and wrong we invented natural rights.

Exactly.

You only have those privileges the government grants.

Benito Mussolini

.

Rights are recognized by people. You can say you have a fright, but unless others agree try exercising it.

Governments like Italy under Mussolini do not resemble representative republics like the USA.

Why do you hate the USA?

Exactly. Plus not worth a plugged nickel without laws of the society protecting them.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

An opinion is not truth, dude. FAIL.

evolution is scientific theory and fact. facts can change with evidence. you can have the opinion that science is junk.

truth is a different thing. saying something is true can be different than stating something is a truth. language, it's something you have to learn...it's not natural for people like you

Evolution Resources from the National Academies

It's a fact, and the only thing that remains a theory is the mechanisms, albeit not of animals, plants and this planet, but the events leading up to the Big Bang, which is still anyone's guess, but they're working overtime trying to figure it out, and we may, one day.

but my reading of the bible says....

 

[Koios]

evolution is scientific theory and fact. facts can change with evidence. you can have the opinion that science is junk.

truth is a different thing. saying something is true can be different than stating something is a truth. language, it's something you have to learn...it's not natural for people like you

Evolution Resources from the National Academies

It's a fact, and the only thing that remains a theory is the mechanisms, albeit not of animals, plants and this planet, but the events leading up to the Big Bang, which is still anyone's guess, but they're working overtime trying to figure it out, and we may, one day.

but my reading of the bible says....

Precisely!!! (whatever you want to hear.)

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Exactly.

You only have those privileges the government grants.

Benito Mussolini

.

Rights are recognized by people. You can say you have a fright, but unless others agree try exercising it.

Governments like Italy under Mussolini do not resemble representative republics like the USA.

Why do you hate the USA?

Exactly. Plus not worth a plugged nickel without laws of the society protecting them.

these fools don't see where the logical ends of their 'principles' and 'arguments' lead: "animals have natural rights"

It's all nonsense on some level.

natural rights, natural law, divine right of kings, social contracts, positive law...

 

[AVG-JOE]

We have a natural right to defend what is ours, nothing more.

Now all that's left is to define what's "yours", and the lengths which you have been authorized to defend it.

It's all subjective, folks. Everything except for breathing.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

"Rights" - or at least "legal rights" - are a figment of the imagination.

Or, more accurately, a figment of the collective imagination of society.

 

[Koios]

"Rights" - or at least "legal rights" - are a figment of the imagination.

Yes and no. While facing a would-be killer or rapist, overtures about your rights are unlikely to deter them.

But by endeavoring to protect a woman's right, we make rape severly punishable by law, fewer women are raped, by many multiples. So the "legal right" can have very measurable impact on fewer women having their rights violated.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

"Rights" - or at least "legal rights" - are a figment of the imagination.

Yes and no. While facing a would-be killer or rapist, overtures about your rights are unlikely to deter them.

But by endeavoring to protect a woman's right, we make rape severly punishable by law, fewer women are raped, by many multiples. So the "legal right" can have very measurable impact on fewer women having their rights violated.

I'm not at all saying that the concept of "legal rights" doesn't impact society - of course it does.

I'm saying that "rights" are nothing more than a construct of society, not a gift from "God" or something one is born with.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Now then, for all with IQs above a single digit, can we please can the absurd notion of natural rights?

Nature does not have right and wrong. That's a human thing, which came when we evolved rational thought.

Nature has works / doesn't work. In the animal realm, about 1% works. 99% didn't; and nature has no moral qualms about it. It just trips across shit that works, i.e. social insects, flowering plants, and thus far, humans, too, albeit not to the level of social insects, nor flowering plants, which comprise the overwhelming bulk of the bio-mass on this planet.

You still haven't even debated against natural rights. Coming into a discussion, stating an opinion, and declaring victory based on said opinion is not a debate, it is dogma.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"Rights" - or at least "legal rights" - are a figment of the imagination.

Or, more accurately, a figment of the collective imagination of society.

legal rights are real. natural rights are figments of the imagination, unless agreed upon and acted upon and even then...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Now then, for all with IQs above a single digit, can we please can the absurd notion of natural rights?

Nature does not have right and wrong. That's a human thing, which came when we evolved rational thought.
Nature has works / doesn't work. In the animal realm, about 1% works. 99% didn't; and nature has no moral qualms about it. It just trips across shit that works, i.e. social insects, flowering plants, and thus far, humans, too, albeit not to the level of social insects, nor flowering plants, which comprise the overwhelming bulk of the bio-mass on this planet.

Are men unnatural to the Earth?

What do you think? Can you not answer your own retarded questions? If not, tough luck, pal. Me answering them is thing of the past.

Do you understand the difference between a discussion of right and wrong and a discussion of rights? Are you confused by the fact that right and right are spelled the same and sound the same?

 

[Koios]

"Rights" - or at least "legal rights" - are a figment of the imagination.

Yes and no. While facing a would-be killer or rapist, overtures about your rights are unlikely to deter them.

But by endeavoring to protect a woman's right, we make rape severly punishable by law, fewer women are raped, by many multiples. So the "legal right" can have very measurable impact on fewer women having their rights violated.

I'm not at all saying that the concept of "legal rights" doesn't impact society - of course it does.

I'm saying that "rights" are nothing more than a construct of society, not a gift from "God" or something one is born with.

We agree on that, wholeheartedly.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

"Rights" - or at least "legal rights" - are a figment of the imagination.

Or, more accurately, a figment of the collective imagination of society.

legal rights are real. natural rights are figments of the imagination, unless agreed upon and acted upon and even then...

"Legal rights" are only real because we as a society have decided to collectively believe in them.

They are not inherent, as proven by the fact that legally, you don't have the same rights in Pakistan as you do in the US.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Now then, for all with IQs above a single digit, can we please can the absurd notion of natural rights?

Nature does not have right and wrong. That's a human thing, which came when we evolved rational thought.

Nature has works / doesn't work. In the animal realm, about 1% works. 99% didn't; and nature has no moral qualms about it. It just trips across shit that works, i.e. social insects, flowering plants, and thus far, humans, too, albeit not to the level of social insects, nor flowering plants, which comprise the overwhelming bulk of the bio-mass on this planet.

You still haven't even debated against natural rights. Coming into a discussion, stating an opinion, and declaring victory based on said opinion is not a debate, it is dogma.

Nature does not guarantee rights. How can it? What are we back to sacrificing neighbors to the Volcano god?

Rights are human constructs. Human constructs come from the mind. What was natural ages ago may not be natural now.

Nature & natural...two terms people are confusing/conflating/hiding behind?

 

[Koios]

Are men unnatural to the Earth?

What do you think? Can you not answer your own retarded questions? If not, tough luck, pal. Me answering them is thing of the past.

Do you understand the difference between a discussion of right and wrong and a discussion of rights? Are you confused by the fact that right and right are spelled the same and sound the same?

I think so. Let's parse:

Right and wrong (relativism)

Rights (shit folks who get caught violating are subject to penalties under law)

How'd I do?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"Rights" - or at least "legal rights" - are a figment of the imagination.

Or, more accurately, a figment of the collective imagination of society.

legal rights are real. natural rights are figments of the imagination, unless agreed upon and acted upon and even then...

"Legal rights" are only real because we as a society have decided to collectively believe in them.

They are not inherent, as proven by the fact that legally, you don't have the same rights in Pakistan as you do in the US.

of course. a post of yours after the one I commented on made your position more clear.

we are in agreement...so far