What the science says

[jc456]

So, energy that only penetrates a few thousandths of an inch isn't REALLY in the water? Is that it? Water doesn't start conducting heat till you get, what, ten feet deep?

Where does heat go junior? Ahhhh yes. It RISES! Tell me then, slick, how do you get any warming of the water when the long wave IR can't even penetrate as deep as a thousandth of an inch?

Heat does NOT rise. Water expanded to a lower density by heating might rise, but heat travels in all directions nitwit.

Wow

 

[jc456]

Nope.

If I, having less money than you, cannot accept your money (the analog of atmospheric IR not being able to do work), there is no transfer and my balance does not change. You're moving into SSSD-ville.

Wow. I knew you had a problem deciphering information from graphs but apparently you aren't so hot with word either.

The smaller amount is the atmosphere.

You guys are saying the $1.00 increases the bigger balance. I say the $1.00 is offset by the $2.00 going the other way AT THE SAME TIME. The bigger balance will always go down until it is equal with the other balance.

Also, radiation is a direct handing over of energy. Heat transfer mediated by matter is different. In that case it is like a banker middle man who tallies up the transaction and only transfers the net amount. $1.00 first turn, $0.98 (edit $0.96) next turn.....$0.00 once the balances are equal.

I really don't understand how you could confuse my position with SSDD's. SSDD thinks there is always a middleman banker even when there is no matter to mediate the exchange of energy.

Nice analogy. I don't completely agree but it was still a nice analogy

 

[Crick]

So, energy that only penetrates a few thousandths of an inch isn't REALLY in the water? Is that it? Water doesn't start conducting heat till you get, what, ten feet deep?

Where does heat go junior? Ahhhh yes. It RISES! Tell me then, slick, how do you get any warming of the water when the long wave IR can't even penetrate as deep as a thousandth of an inch?

Heat does NOT rise. Water expanded to a lower density by heating might rise, but heat travels in all directions nitwit.

Wow

Have you got something to say jc? Do you disagree?

 

[Crick]

Nope.

If I, having less money than you, cannot accept your money (the analog of atmospheric IR not being able to do work), there is no transfer and my balance does not change. You're moving into SSSD-ville.

Wow. I knew you had a problem deciphering information from graphs but apparently you aren't so hot with word either.

The smaller amount is the atmosphere.

You guys are saying the $1.00 increases the bigger balance. I say the $1.00 is offset by the $2.00 going the other way AT THE SAME TIME. The bigger balance will always go down until it is equal with the other balance.

Also, radiation is a direct handing over of energy. Heat transfer mediated by matter is different. In that case it is like a banker middle man who tallies up the transaction and only transfers the net amount. $1.00 first turn, $0.98 (edit $0.96) next turn.....$0.00 once the balances are equal.

I really don't understand how you could confuse my position with SSDD's. SSDD thinks there is always a middleman banker even when there is no matter to mediate the exchange of energy.

Obviously both are taking place at the same time. That no work gets accomplished in the whole system is irrelevant. Work is also a net sum. IR from the colder atmosphere is absorbed by the warmer surface. If you disagree, please explain why?

 

[IanC]

Nope.

If I, having less money than you, cannot accept your money (the analog of atmospheric IR not being able to do work), there is no transfer and my balance does not change. You're moving into SSSD-ville.

Wow. I knew you had a problem deciphering information from graphs but apparently you aren't so hot with word either.

The smaller amount is the atmosphere.

You guys are saying the $1.00 increases the bigger balance. I say the $1.00 is offset by the $2.00 going the other way AT THE SAME TIME. The bigger balance will always go down until it is equal with the other balance.

Also, radiation is a direct handing over of energy. Heat transfer mediated by matter is different. In that case it is like a banker middle man who tallies up the transaction and only transfers the net amount. $1.00 first turn, $0.98 (edit $0.96) next turn.....$0.00 once the balances are equal.

I really don't understand how you could confuse my position with SSDD's. SSDD thinks there is always a middleman banker even when there is no matter to mediate the exchange of energy.

Obviously both are taking place at the same time. That no work gets accomplished in the whole system is irrelevant. Work is also a net sum. IR from the colder atmosphere is absorbed by the warmer surface. If you disagree, please explain why?

Hold on a minute Bucko!!!!

You and especially Old Rocks were saying that the radiation from the atmosphere was returning to the surface and warming it! I showed you that it was NOT, and explained why.

Instead of agreeing, disagreeing, or being grateful for the explanation you have now insinuated that I said the back radiation cannot be absorbed by the surface.

You are a scumbag.

 

[jc456]

So, energy that only penetrates a few thousandths of an inch isn't REALLY in the water? Is that it? Water doesn't start conducting heat till you get, what, ten feet deep?

Where does heat go junior? Ahhhh yes. It RISES! Tell me then, slick, how do you get any warming of the water when the long wave IR can't even penetrate as deep as a thousandth of an inch?

Heat does NOT rise. Water expanded to a lower density by heating might rise, but heat travels in all directions nitwit.

Wow

Have you got something to say jc? Do you disagree?

I just want to make sure I read your post correctly. you stated heat does not rise. are you going with that?

 

[IanC]

Nope.

If I, having less money than you, cannot accept your money (the analog of atmospheric IR not being able to do work), there is no transfer and my balance does not change. You're moving into SSSD-ville.

Wow. I knew you had a problem deciphering information from graphs but apparently you aren't so hot with word either.

The smaller amount is the atmosphere.

You guys are saying the $1.00 increases the bigger balance. I say the $1.00 is offset by the $2.00 going the other way AT THE SAME TIME. The bigger balance will always go down until it is equal with the other balance.

Also, radiation is a direct handing over of energy. Heat transfer mediated by matter is different. In that case it is like a banker middle man who tallies up the transaction and only transfers the net amount. $1.00 first turn, $0.98 (edit $0.96) next turn.....$0.00 once the balances are equal.

I really don't understand how you could confuse my position with SSDD's. SSDD thinks there is always a middleman banker even when there is no matter to mediate the exchange of energy.

Nice analogy. I don't completely agree but it was still a nice analogy

I think you should put more effort into understanding my comments rather than finding loopholes to get around them.

 

[IanC]

So, energy that only penetrates a few thousandths of an inch isn't REALLY in the water? Is that it? Water doesn't start conducting heat till you get, what, ten feet deep?

Where does heat go junior? Ahhhh yes. It RISES! Tell me then, slick, how do you get any warming of the water when the long wave IR can't even penetrate as deep as a thousandth of an inch?

Heat does NOT rise. Water expanded to a lower density by heating might rise, but heat travels in all directions nitwit.

Wow

Have you got something to say jc? Do you disagree?

I just want to make sure I read your post correctly. you stated heat does not rise. are you going with that?

Heat rising is a function of gravity, not an inherent quality of heat.

 

[jc456]

Nope.

If I, having less money than you, cannot accept your money (the analog of atmospheric IR not being able to do work), there is no transfer and my balance does not change. You're moving into SSSD-ville.

Wow. I knew you had a problem deciphering information from graphs but apparently you aren't so hot with word either.

The smaller amount is the atmosphere.

You guys are saying the $1.00 increases the bigger balance. I say the $1.00 is offset by the $2.00 going the other way AT THE SAME TIME. The bigger balance will always go down until it is equal with the other balance.

Also, radiation is a direct handing over of energy. Heat transfer mediated by matter is different. In that case it is like a banker middle man who tallies up the transaction and only transfers the net amount. $1.00 first turn, $0.98 (edit $0.96) next turn.....$0.00 once the balances are equal.

I really don't understand how you could confuse my position with SSDD's. SSDD thinks there is always a middleman banker even when there is no matter to mediate the exchange of energy.

Nice analogy. I don't completely agree but it was still a nice analogy

I think you should put more effort into understanding my comments rather than finding loopholes to get around them.

no loopholes, I just don't agree there is back radiation. You know this. I complimented you because you showed how the balance of your idea works. It is a very good analogy. but I don't believe the atmosphere actually gives back any money.

 

[IanC]

Nope.

If I, having less money than you, cannot accept your money (the analog of atmospheric IR not being able to do work), there is no transfer and my balance does not change. You're moving into SSSD-ville.

Wow. I knew you had a problem deciphering information from graphs but apparently you aren't so hot with word either.

The smaller amount is the atmosphere.

You guys are saying the $1.00 increases the bigger balance. I say the $1.00 is offset by the $2.00 going the other way AT THE SAME TIME. The bigger balance will always go down until it is equal with the other balance.

Also, radiation is a direct handing over of energy. Heat transfer mediated by matter is different. In that case it is like a banker middle man who tallies up the transaction and only transfers the net amount. $1.00 first turn, $0.98 (edit $0.96) next turn.....$0.00 once the balances are equal.

I really don't understand how you could confuse my position with SSDD's. SSDD thinks there is always a middleman banker even when there is no matter to mediate the exchange of energy.

Nice analogy. I don't completely agree but it was still a nice analogy

I think you should put more effort into understanding my comments rather than finding loopholes to get around them.

no loopholes, I just don't agree there is back radiation. You know this. I complimented you because you showed how the balance of your idea works. It is a very good analogy. but I don't believe the atmosphere actually gives back any money.

the inescapable conclusion from that statement is that you disagree with the fundemental physics principle that all objects warmer than zero degrees Kelvin radiate.

the atmosphere is warmer than 0K, it does radiate, some of that radiation is in the direction of the surface. QED

 

[jc456]

Where does heat go junior? Ahhhh yes. It RISES! Tell me then, slick, how do you get any warming of the water when the long wave IR can't even penetrate as deep as a thousandth of an inch?

Heat does NOT rise. Water expanded to a lower density by heating might rise, but heat travels in all directions nitwit.

Wow

Have you got something to say jc? Do you disagree?

I just want to make sure I read your post correctly. you stated heat does not rise. are you going with that?

Heat rising is a function of gravity, not an inherent quality of heat.

heat moves to the cooler atmosphere due to the increase in pressure of the air, as it does it gets less dense and downward force is reduced. cold air replaces the heat as cold air is more dense and sinks.

 

[jc456]

Nope.

If I, having less money than you, cannot accept your money (the analog of atmospheric IR not being able to do work), there is no transfer and my balance does not change. You're moving into SSSD-ville.

Wow. I knew you had a problem deciphering information from graphs but apparently you aren't so hot with word either.

The smaller amount is the atmosphere.

You guys are saying the $1.00 increases the bigger balance. I say the $1.00 is offset by the $2.00 going the other way AT THE SAME TIME. The bigger balance will always go down until it is equal with the other balance.

Also, radiation is a direct handing over of energy. Heat transfer mediated by matter is different. In that case it is like a banker middle man who tallies up the transaction and only transfers the net amount. $1.00 first turn, $0.98 (edit $0.96) next turn.....$0.00 once the balances are equal.

I really don't understand how you could confuse my position with SSDD's. SSDD thinks there is always a middleman banker even when there is no matter to mediate the exchange of energy.

Nice analogy. I don't completely agree but it was still a nice analogy

I think you should put more effort into understanding my comments rather than finding loopholes to get around them.

no loopholes, I just don't agree there is back radiation. You know this. I complimented you because you showed how the balance of your idea works. It is a very good analogy. but I don't believe the atmosphere actually gives back any money.

the inescapable conclusion from that statement is that you disagree with the fundemental physics principle that all objects warmer than zero degrees Kelvin radiate.

the atmosphere is warmer than 0K, it does radiate, some of that radiation is in the direction of the surface. QED

I never said that objects don't radiate, I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

 

[IanC]

Wow. I knew you had a problem deciphering information from graphs but apparently you aren't so hot with word either.

The smaller amount is the atmosphere.

You guys are saying the $1.00 increases the bigger balance. I say the $1.00 is offset by the $2.00 going the other way AT THE SAME TIME. The bigger balance will always go down until it is equal with the other balance.

Also, radiation is a direct handing over of energy. Heat transfer mediated by matter is different. In that case it is like a banker middle man who tallies up the transaction and only transfers the net amount. $1.00 first turn, $0.98 (edit $0.96) next turn.....$0.00 once the balances are equal.

I really don't understand how you could confuse my position with SSDD's. SSDD thinks there is always a middleman banker even when there is no matter to mediate the exchange of energy.

Nice analogy. I don't completely agree but it was still a nice analogy

I think you should put more effort into understanding my comments rather than finding loopholes to get around them.

no loopholes, I just don't agree there is back radiation. You know this. I complimented you because you showed how the balance of your idea works. It is a very good analogy. but I don't believe the atmosphere actually gives back any money.

the inescapable conclusion from that statement is that you disagree with the fundemental physics principle that all objects warmer than zero degrees Kelvin radiate.

the atmosphere is warmer than 0K, it does radiate, some of that radiation is in the direction of the surface. QED

I never said that objects don't radiate, I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

Heat doesn't radiate from cold to hot. Heat is the net transfer of energy from one object to another.

The radiation is always there.

Do two objects of the same temperature stop radiating as they are brought together? Or do they continue to radiate as before?

While the concept of radiation is not simple, nor is the fact that light and matter have different properties and obey different rules, I still cannot grasp why you and others find it so difficult to comprehend.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wow. I knew you had a problem deciphering information from graphs but apparently you aren't so hot with word either.

The smaller amount is the atmosphere.

You guys are saying the $1.00 increases the bigger balance. I say the $1.00 is offset by the $2.00 going the other way AT THE SAME TIME. The bigger balance will always go down until it is equal with the other balance.

Also, radiation is a direct handing over of energy. Heat transfer mediated by matter is different. In that case it is like a banker middle man who tallies up the transaction and only transfers the net amount. $1.00 first turn, $0.98 (edit $0.96) next turn.....$0.00 once the balances are equal.

I really don't understand how you could confuse my position with SSDD's. SSDD thinks there is always a middleman banker even when there is no matter to mediate the exchange of energy.

Nice analogy. I don't completely agree but it was still a nice analogy

I think you should put more effort into understanding my comments rather than finding loopholes to get around them.

no loopholes, I just don't agree there is back radiation. You know this. I complimented you because you showed how the balance of your idea works. It is a very good analogy. but I don't believe the atmosphere actually gives back any money.

the inescapable conclusion from that statement is that you disagree with the fundemental physics principle that all objects warmer than zero degrees Kelvin radiate.

the atmosphere is warmer than 0K, it does radiate, some of that radiation is in the direction of the surface. QED

I never said that objects don't radiate, I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

Those tiny thermometers they have are neat!

 

[IanC]

Nice analogy. I don't completely agree but it was still a nice analogy

I think you should put more effort into understanding my comments rather than finding loopholes to get around them.

no loopholes, I just don't agree there is back radiation. You know this. I complimented you because you showed how the balance of your idea works. It is a very good analogy. but I don't believe the atmosphere actually gives back any money.

the inescapable conclusion from that statement is that you disagree with the fundemental physics principle that all objects warmer than zero degrees Kelvin radiate.

the atmosphere is warmer than 0K, it does radiate, some of that radiation is in the direction of the surface. QED

I never said that objects don't radiate, I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

Those tiny thermometers they have are neat!

I dont think sarcasm works on the smart photon crowd

 

[jc456]

Nice analogy. I don't completely agree but it was still a nice analogy

I think you should put more effort into understanding my comments rather than finding loopholes to get around them.

no loopholes, I just don't agree there is back radiation. You know this. I complimented you because you showed how the balance of your idea works. It is a very good analogy. but I don't believe the atmosphere actually gives back any money.

the inescapable conclusion from that statement is that you disagree with the fundemental physics principle that all objects warmer than zero degrees Kelvin radiate.

the atmosphere is warmer than 0K, it does radiate, some of that radiation is in the direction of the surface. QED

I never said that objects don't radiate, I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

Those tiny thermometers they have are neat!

I didn't invent the rules

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I think you should put more effort into understanding my comments rather than finding loopholes to get around them.

no loopholes, I just don't agree there is back radiation. You know this. I complimented you because you showed how the balance of your idea works. It is a very good analogy. but I don't believe the atmosphere actually gives back any money.

the inescapable conclusion from that statement is that you disagree with the fundemental physics principle that all objects warmer than zero degrees Kelvin radiate.

the atmosphere is warmer than 0K, it does radiate, some of that radiation is in the direction of the surface. QED

I never said that objects don't radiate, I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

Those tiny thermometers they have are neat!

I didn't invent the rules

I know, you just misinterpret them.

 

[IanC]

no loopholes, I just don't agree there is back radiation. You know this. I complimented you because you showed how the balance of your idea works. It is a very good analogy. but I don't believe the atmosphere actually gives back any money.

the inescapable conclusion from that statement is that you disagree with the fundemental physics principle that all objects warmer than zero degrees Kelvin radiate.

the atmosphere is warmer than 0K, it does radiate, some of that radiation is in the direction of the surface. QED

I never said that objects don't radiate, I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

Those tiny thermometers they have are neat!

I didn't invent the rules

I know, you just misinterpret them.

Yup. Something like "there is a law against jaywalking therefore no birds have ever crossed a street"

 

[jc456]

the inescapable conclusion from that statement is that you disagree with the fundemental physics principle that all objects warmer than zero degrees Kelvin radiate.

the atmosphere is warmer than 0K, it does radiate, some of that radiation is in the direction of the surface. QED

I never said that objects don't radiate, I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

Those tiny thermometers they have are neat!

I didn't invent the rules

I know, you just misinterpret them.

Yup. Something like "there is a law against jaywalking therefore no birds have ever crossed a street"

At least that would be observed

 

[jc456]

no loopholes, I just don't agree there is back radiation. You know this. I complimented you because you showed how the balance of your idea works. It is a very good analogy. but I don't believe the atmosphere actually gives back any money.

the inescapable conclusion from that statement is that you disagree with the fundemental physics principle that all objects warmer than zero degrees Kelvin radiate.

the atmosphere is warmer than 0K, it does radiate, some of that radiation is in the direction of the surface. QED

I never said that objects don't radiate, I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

I claim they don't radiate cold to hot.

Those tiny thermometers they have are neat!

I didn't invent the rules

I know, you just misinterpret them.

Nope