What's Your Understanding Of The Act Of Burning The Flag?

[Jarhead]

It is. Burning the flag is disgraceful. But burning it to inflame and incite others should be addressed, and I don't know how.

Shoudn't one get arrested for yelling out 'niggar' on a crowded Harlem St corner (but not at a Tea Party rally). Why? Because inciting violence is not protected freedom of expression? Because disorderly conduct is illegal? Is all protest equal and protected?

I am going outon a limb here, but I need to say this.

And yes, it is off topic, but quite the parralel.

Nancy Pelosi walking through the protesters? A childish move that would likely stir up some people.

Either she is too niave to think that it may anger some of the protesters who saw it as "shoving it in their face", or she knew it would and didnt care, or she knew it would and HOPED it would.

Any of the three are reasons we need to replace her as a memeber of congress.

She has openly ridiculed those that were speaking out. OnApril 15th he called them 'astroturf".

She was around in the 60's Heck, many memebers of congress were those "pot smoking hippies".

They knew how their ridicule would stir up anger.

Why did they know?

Becuase it made them angry in the 60's when Nixon and his administration did it.

The Speaker of the House walking through what is supposed to be a non violent protest should be a non event. Hatred about policies and not individuals is what the Tea Party people say they are about. Pelosi and others just took them at their word, or decided to expose the myth. that is hardly a crime or an invitation to riot or break the law. Pelosi is an elected public servant and an elected leader within our government.

The very same principle the right argues about, that we should respect the SCOTUS sitting in the House chambers is thrown away when it comes to respecting Democratic Party members. and btw, I do not think Obama meant any disrespect to SCOTUS. In fact he made his comments with all due resepct.

I respectfully disagree.

Pelosi should be aware that when you have a few thousand people in a gathering, some will lose their cool when promted. It is human nature.
And some did.

At a ballgame, some will get angry at n error. Most simply go "ugh" but a few will toss their beer at the player.

If you were standing in a group of non violent 2000 people that were protesting against you personally, would you expect everyone of them to simply say "boo" if you said that you saw them as jackasses?

Pelosi did not commit a crime. No. I agree.

Pelosi did something that was very stupid and, to me, very unbecoming of a congressperson.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I know how and so do you.

Stop ridiculing the cause associated with it. If we let them speak and show respect for their cause, they will not resort to "pissing us off".

Code Pink? I disagree with much they feel. I will never ridicule them. Ever. Let them speak out. They may be less drastic with their tactics.

Cindy Sheehan. Poor soul. I feel for her. But I disagree with her. I respect her cause. And I will never ridicule her.

Respect for the cause? If the cause is to piss me off, I can ignore it--but to respect is asking too much. I am not a follower of that Jewish kid Jesus.

I defend Code Pink's right to priotest while agreeing they should be arrested or thrown out of venues where their only purpose is to disrupt others from engaging in their free speech rights. Abridging then free speech of others is a crime.

I would also agree that my slapping the family Phelps should get me arrested. But me slapping them would be a civil obligation and is would not be an extreme form of law breaking.

Respect must be shown on the part of the protesters, unless they are protesting something egregious---which is a judgment call. Egregious would be difficult to catalog and categorize, But like obscenity, we'll know it when we see it.

Cindy Sheehan? I respect her cause and her. I disagree with her. I would never slander or debase a Gold Star Mother for grieving--like most on the right did. I did want her to shut up when she went beyond her grieving and into politics.

So we are on the same page.
The only difference?
I bleive those that get violent or extreme are reacting to those that show them no respect when they spoke out.
Like those in the 60's
Like the Tea Partyers
Like Cindy Sheehan

Not exactly.

Showing respect for a right to protest does not demand respect for the cause. Some causes are just. Some causes are partisan rallies. Some protests are meant to instigate violence on the part of authority or others, and some protest is meant to incite riot.

All protest is not the same. With the right to protest comes responsibilities.

ex: anti-war protesters vs weather underground.

anti-war protesters vs SDS

anti-war protesters vs anarchists

anti-war protesters vs Tea Party propagandist rallies/conservative manipulation of the great unwashed

 

[PatekPhilippe]

It's legal, unfortunately.... protected under free speech

I have served my country with honor... and buried come close friends with the flag on their coffins... and I think that anyone who desecrates the flag is a despicable piece of shit....

As a veteran, I ascribe to this same train of thought. It's ashame that some people hate what their country stands for.

 

[Jarhead]

Respect for the cause? If the cause is to piss me off, I can ignore it--but to respect is asking too much. I am not a follower of that Jewish kid Jesus.

I defend Code Pink's right to priotest while agreeing they should be arrested or thrown out of venues where their only purpose is to disrupt others from engaging in their free speech rights. Abridging then free speech of others is a crime.

I would also agree that my slapping the family Phelps should get me arrested. But me slapping them would be a civil obligation and is would not be an extreme form of law breaking.

Respect must be shown on the part of the protesters, unless they are protesting something egregious---which is a judgment call. Egregious would be difficult to catalog and categorize, But like obscenity, we'll know it when we see it.

Cindy Sheehan? I respect her cause and her. I disagree with her. I would never slander or debase a Gold Star Mother for grieving--like most on the right did. I did want her to shut up when she went beyond her grieving and into politics.

So we are on the same page.
The only difference?
I bleive those that get violent or extreme are reacting to those that show them no respect when they spoke out.
Like those in the 60's
Like the Tea Partyers
Like Cindy Sheehan

Not exactly.

Showing respect for a right to protest does not demand respect for the cause. Some causes are just. Some causes are partisan rallies. Some protests are meant to instigate violence on the part of authority or others, and some protest is meant to incite riot.

All protest is not the same. With the right to protest comes responsibilities.

ex: anti-war protesters vs weather underground.

anti-war protesters vs SDS

anti-war protesters vs anarchists

anti-war protesters vs Tea Party propagandist rallies/conservative manipulation of the great unwashed

How about we leave it that we agree to disagree on that.

As for respect of cuase. I am referring to respect of those with a cause

I believe it is most approapriate in the US, where we all come form all walks of life, that we show respect to those with a cause, even if we do not agree with the cause.

I agree that tactics and approach are considerations.

I believe it is those that show disrespect for anothers cause as a reason some resort to less desirebale tactics.; but I still blame those that resort to those tactics.

Nice debate Dante. Your approach is appreciated.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I am going outon a limb here, but I need to say this.

And yes, it is off topic, but quite the parralel.

Nancy Pelosi walking through the protesters? A childish move that would likely stir up some people.

Either she is too niave to think that it may anger some of the protesters who saw it as "shoving it in their face", or she knew it would and didnt care, or she knew it would and HOPED it would.

Any of the three are reasons we need to replace her as a memeber of congress.

She has openly ridiculed those that were speaking out. OnApril 15th he called them 'astroturf".

She was around in the 60's Heck, many memebers of congress were those "pot smoking hippies".

They knew how their ridicule would stir up anger.

Why did they know?

Becuase it made them angry in the 60's when Nixon and his administration did it.

The Speaker of the House walking through what is supposed to be a non violent protest should be a non event. Hatred about policies and not individuals is what the Tea Party people say they are about. Pelosi and others just took them at their word, or decided to expose the myth. that is hardly a crime or an invitation to riot or break the law. Pelosi is an elected public servant and an elected leader within our government.

The very same principle the right argues about, that we should respect the SCOTUS sitting in the House chambers is thrown away when it comes to respecting Democratic Party members. and btw, I do not think Obama meant any disrespect to SCOTUS. In fact he made his comments with all due resepct.

I respectfully disagree.

Pelosi should be aware that when you have a few thousand people in a gathering, some will lose their cool when promted. It is human nature.
And some did.

At a ballgame, some will get angry at n error. Most simply go "ugh" but a few will toss their beer at the player.

If you were standing in a group of non violent 2000 people that were protesting against you personally, would you expect everyone of them to simply say "boo" if you said that you saw them as jackasses?

Pelosi did not commit a crime. No. I agree.

Pelosi did something that was very stupid and, to me, very unbecoming of a congressperson.

"Some will lose control when prompted..."

What was the prompt? What did Pelosi do that 'prompted' any action on the part of those who acted?

And even if Pelosi did prompt a response (which I disagree she did) the response must always be in direct proportion to the insult(?).

People who toss beers at ballgames deserve to be thrown out and arrested, as they suffer from arrested development, and assume the rest of society must put up with what their families do.

What Pelosi dd was not stupid. When people who are protesting and demanding Constitutional principles be upheld (a bogus argument by the Tea Party, but one I recognize they claim), they are more than required to respect those they protest against---especially if we are to use your principle(s) and mine.

Pelosi is due the respect of an elected government leader.

This reminds me of a situation I found myself in. I was walking with my dog across the Harvard University campus. There was a pretty large and vocal protest. I stopped to see what was up. It seemed the President/Prime Minister of China was speaking/visiting there. I got into an exchange where I asked why were people trying to prevent the Chinese leader from speaking. I think the protest had to do with demanding the rights of speech for dissidents in China.

something was lost to the minds of the students and others attending. and it was more than irony

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

How about we leave it that we agree to disagree on that.

As for respect of cuase. I am referring to respect of those with a cause

I believe it is most approapriate in the US, where we all come form all walks of life, that we show respect to those with a cause, even if we do not agree with the cause.

I agree that tactics and approach are considerations.

I believe it is those that show disrespect for anothers cause as a reason some resort to less desirebale tactics.; but I still blame those that resort to those tactics.

Nice debate Dante. Your approach is appreciated.

I almost always respect those with a cause. Almost always. It depends on what a cause is based on. Hatred and disrespect breed a same response. Hatred and disrespect do not deserve to be respected.

I have been to many a protest. As a small kid, i grew up going to hippie and anti-war protests. I lived around major universities my whole life. I have joined, counter protested and documented (video, photography, etc...) protests. Not all protest are equal.

Demonstrations and protests and rallies can be many things. Some an be calls for overthrown of our government, calls to riot, assemblies and calls to go out and ethnically cleanse one's country. All these things do not deserve respect.

as usual, debates/arguments outside an arrangement/context, can go in circles because definitions need to be established.

We may think of different things when we use the words 'protest' or 'rally' or 'exercise of rights'

 

[Jarhead]

The Speaker of the House walking through what is supposed to be a non violent protest should be a non event. Hatred about policies and not individuals is what the Tea Party people say they are about. Pelosi and others just took them at their word, or decided to expose the myth. that is hardly a crime or an invitation to riot or break the law. Pelosi is an elected public servant and an elected leader within our government.

The very same principle the right argues about, that we should respect the SCOTUS sitting in the House chambers is thrown away when it comes to respecting Democratic Party members. and btw, I do not think Obama meant any disrespect to SCOTUS. In fact he made his comments with all due resepct.

I respectfully disagree.

Pelosi should be aware that when you have a few thousand people in a gathering, some will lose their cool when promted. It is human nature.
And some did.

At a ballgame, some will get angry at n error. Most simply go "ugh" but a few will toss their beer at the player.

If you were standing in a group of non violent 2000 people that were protesting against you personally, would you expect everyone of them to simply say "boo" if you said that you saw them as jackasses?

Pelosi did not commit a crime. No. I agree.

Pelosi did something that was very stupid and, to me, very unbecoming of a congressperson.

"Some will lose control when prompted..."

What was the prompt? What did Pelosi do that 'prompted' any action on the part of those who acted?

And even if Pelosi did prompt a response (which I disagree she did) the response must always be in direct proportion to the insult(?).

People who toss beers at ballgames deserve to be thrown out and arrested, as they suffer from arrested development, and assume the rest of society must put up with what their families do.

What Pelosi dd was not stupid. When people who are protesting and demanding Constitutional principles be upheld (a bogus argument by the Tea Party, but one I recognize they claim), they are more than required to respect those they protest against---especially if we are to use your principle(s) and mine.

Pelosi is due the respect of an elected government leader.

This reminds me of a situation I found myself in. I was walking with my dog across the Harvard University campus. There was a pretty large and vocal protest. I stopped to see what was up. It seemed the President/Prime Minister of China was speaking/visiting there. I got into an exchange where I asked why were people trying to prevent the Chinese leader from speaking. I think the protest had to do with demanding the rights of speech for dissidents in China.

something was lost to the minds of the students and others attending. and it was more than irony

Sir,

You seemnto forget that The Speaker did not show respect to those that were protesting back in April. She called them names and ridiculed their cause.

She earned their disrespect.

I respect President Obama. I disagree with him but he has yet to show me disrespect. He shows many of the GOP disrespect, but I am not GOP. And besides, the GOP has earned his disrespect; and as I see it, visa versa.

I respected my US Senator for years (Schumer). I do not agree with him on most issues. But he did not lose my respect until this year. Then he ridiculed my sentiments. He made fun of those that think like me. He no longer has my respect as he does not respect me.

I respect you. I disagree with you, but you have not yet shown me real disresepct. Sure you played with me last week, but I did with you as well. But neither of us called each other names or told each other how our thinking was rediculous.

The Harvard story is not unique. Many on the right ridiculed those on the left that protested Palin attending a University seminar. Hypocrtiical for a consertvative to say a student can not protest, but they said it anyway.

Much like all of those that protested the Iraq war over the years. They were not just protesting the war, they were protesting the administration. And now those same people are ridiculing those that protest this administration.

Anyway, we will never see eye to eye on this as you have a very solid, not swaying view of the tea partyers; one that I just dont have the energy to debate anymore. We see them as exact opposites, and you continually use them as an example to support your sentiments, so the only way I can refute what you say is by addressing your feelings on the tea partyers. But you are strong on your conictions about them, and there is nothing I can say to change that.

So, as I said, I respectfully disagree with you and whereeas I respect your stance, I ask that you respect min.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I respectfully disagree.

Pelosi should be aware that when you have a few thousand people in a gathering, some will lose their cool when promted. It is human nature.
And some did.

At a ballgame, some will get angry at n error. Most simply go "ugh" but a few will toss their beer at the player.

If you were standing in a group of non violent 2000 people that were protesting against you personally, would you expect everyone of them to simply say "boo" if you said that you saw them as jackasses?

Pelosi did not commit a crime. No. I agree.

Pelosi did something that was very stupid and, to me, very unbecoming of a congressperson.

"Some will lose control when prompted..."

What was the prompt? What did Pelosi do that 'prompted' any action on the part of those who acted?

And even if Pelosi did prompt a response (which I disagree she did) the response must always be in direct proportion to the insult(?).

People who toss beers at ballgames deserve to be thrown out and arrested, as they suffer from arrested development, and assume the rest of society must put up with what their families do.

What Pelosi dd was not stupid. When people who are protesting and demanding Constitutional principles be upheld (a bogus argument by the Tea Party, but one I recognize they claim), they are more than required to respect those they protest against---especially if we are to use your principle(s) and mine.

Pelosi is due the respect of an elected government leader.

This reminds me of a situation I found myself in. I was walking with my dog across the Harvard University campus. There was a pretty large and vocal protest. I stopped to see what was up. It seemed the President/Prime Minister of China was speaking/visiting there. I got into an exchange where I asked why were people trying to prevent the Chinese leader from speaking. I think the protest had to do with demanding the rights of speech for dissidents in China.

something was lost to the minds of the students and others attending. and it was more than irony

Sir,

You seemnto forget that The Speaker did not show respect to those that were protesting back in April. She called them names and ridiculed their cause.

She earned their disrespect.

I respect President Obama. I disagree with him but he has yet to show me disrespect. He shows many of the GOP disrespect, but I am not GOP. And besides, the GOP has earned his disrespect; and as I see it, visa versa.

I respected my US Senator for years (Schumer). I do not agree with him on most issues. But he did not lose my respect until this year. Then he ridiculed my sentiments. He made fun of those that think like me. He no longer has my respect as he does not respect me.

I respect you. I disagree with you, but you have not yet shown me real disresepct. Sure you played with me last week, but I did with you as well. But neither of us called each other names or told each other how our thinking was rediculous.

The Harvard story is not unique. Many on the right ridiculed those on the left that protested Palin attending a University seminar. Hypocrtiical for a consertvative to say a student can not protest, but they said it anyway.

Much like all of those that protested the Iraq war over the years. They were not just protesting the war, they were protesting the administration. And now those same people are ridiculing those that protest this administration.

Anyway, we will never see eye to eye on this as you have a very solid, not swaying view of the tea partyers; one that I just dont have the energy to debate anymore. We see them as exact opposites, and you continually use them as an example to support your sentiments, so the only way I can refute what you say is by addressing your feelings on the tea partyers. But you are strong on your conictions about them, and there is nothing I can say to change that.

So, as I said, I respectfully disagree with you and whereeas I respect your stance, I ask that you respect min.

I'm sorry, I forgot the protesters themselves were being respectful.

One look at those signs and one day of listening to Tea Party attendees on talk radio, and what Pelosi did was respectful---in the way those people were. Did se call them vile names and misrepresent everything they were saying?

The fact is the Tea Party rallies have become a way for people to vent anger and frustration---they are adult sized pity pots and, hate filled rallies.

I understand the feelings of frustration and anger the Tea Party attendees feel. I do not respect how they are manipulated and respond to things.

Extremism is not pretty. It is ugly. It does nothing to promote solutions that benefit any just cause. It will always take the low road with disastrous results.

thank you for showing respect for opinions that differ.


dD

 

[Dr Gregg]

ummm. peeing on another affects the rights and privacy of the person being peed on. burning a flag doesn't affect anyone. the ability to freely do what doesn't infringe on other's right is what defines a free place and people.

We're about 132 posts into the subject, I think it effects people and certainly affects people. Burning the flag is a form of violence, so you are commiting a violent protest. That does infringe on the rights of others. You are up in arms over violating the rights of a single person, while having nary a care over offending many patriots.

I think it's very interesting that you seem to think somebody doing something that offends your personal sensibilities is the same as you doing something physically to atttack another person's body.

Why do you feel your personal opinion is as important as my right not to be physically attacked?

And I'll also say, that opnion offends my own personal sensibilities. Therefore, since it offends me do I have the right to assault you or limit your ability to say it?

You are addressing someone who stated that peeing on someone is free speech, so I doubt you will get through to them

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Much like all of those that protested the Iraq war over the years. They were not just protesting the war, they were protesting the administration. And now those same people are ridiculing those that protest this administration.

I think this is an issue. Protesting an administration is one thing. There were many types who marched against the war in Iraq. What the Tea Party rallies are about is more than protesting an action or actions by the Obama administration.

You are misconstruing or misrepresenting what the Tea Party is all about. I don't think it is intentional. I am not one to take popular political issues to task as I have this one. Even my old nemesis mani, has noted that about this issue.

Maybe I am far back enough from the populist anger and frustration that I both understand it and see it for what it is being used for?

I do not deny some of the issues the Tea Party types raise. But many of the issues are downright weird and conspiracist in nature. Many are outrageously bogus.

The issues vs the feelings.

 

[Dr Gregg]

We're about 132 posts into the subject, I think it effects people and certainly affects people. Burning the flag is a form of violence, so you are commiting a violent protest. That does infringe on the rights of others. You are up in arms over violating the rights of a single person, while having nary a care over offending many patriots.

Burning a flag is about as much a form of violence as burning a log. Since when has there been a Constitutional right to not be offended? However, that single person does have the a constitutional right to freedom of speech, expression, and flag burning/symbolic speech is his/her protected under that right.

Whatever happened to what I learned growing up "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" people need to relax, so easily offended.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We're about 132 posts into the subject, I think it effects people and certainly affects people. Burning the flag is a form of violence, so you are commiting a violent protest. That does infringe on the rights of others. You are up in arms over violating the rights of a single person, while having nary a care over offending many patriots.

I think it's very interesting that you seem to think somebody doing something that offends your personal sensibilities is the same as you doing something physically to atttack another person's body.

Why do you feel your personal opinion is as important as my right not to be physically attacked?

And I'll also say, that opnion offends my own personal sensibilities. Therefore, since it offends me do I have the right to assault you or limit your ability to say it?

You are addressing someone who stated that peeing on someone is free speech, so I doubt you will get through to them

It is if it is consensual.

 

[007]

It's legal, unfortunately.... protected under free speech

I have served my country with honor... and buried come close friends with the flag on their coffins... and I think that anyone who desecrates the flag is a despicable piece of shit....

Indeed... and they ought to have their ass kicked up around their fucking shoulders, be arrested, and sent to what ever other country they feel the need to burn their flag next.

Try burning one in front of me, and will remove some of your teeth. Go to jail for it? Gladly. Small price to pay to fuck up someone desecrating the most sacred symbol of America, and all the blood and dead that fought for it.

 

[Dr Gregg]

I think it's very interesting that you seem to think somebody doing something that offends your personal sensibilities is the same as you doing something physically to atttack another person's body.

Why do you feel your personal opinion is as important as my right not to be physically attacked?

And I'll also say, that opnion offends my own personal sensibilities. Therefore, since it offends me do I have the right to assault you or limit your ability to say it?

You are addressing someone who stated that peeing on someone is free speech, so I doubt you will get through to them

It is if it is consensual.

"The only thing that will make me complete, is when I turn your face into a toilet seat... I piss on you" - Dave Chappelle's R Kelly Piss on you song

 

[Jarhead]

"Some will lose control when prompted..."

What was the prompt? What did Pelosi do that 'prompted' any action on the part of those who acted?

And even if Pelosi did prompt a response (which I disagree she did) the response must always be in direct proportion to the insult(?).

People who toss beers at ballgames deserve to be thrown out and arrested, as they suffer from arrested development, and assume the rest of society must put up with what their families do.

What Pelosi dd was not stupid. When people who are protesting and demanding Constitutional principles be upheld (a bogus argument by the Tea Party, but one I recognize they claim), they are more than required to respect those they protest against---especially if we are to use your principle(s) and mine.

Pelosi is due the respect of an elected government leader.

This reminds me of a situation I found myself in. I was walking with my dog across the Harvard University campus. There was a pretty large and vocal protest. I stopped to see what was up. It seemed the President/Prime Minister of China was speaking/visiting there. I got into an exchange where I asked why were people trying to prevent the Chinese leader from speaking. I think the protest had to do with demanding the rights of speech for dissidents in China.

something was lost to the minds of the students and others attending. and it was more than irony

Sir,

You seemnto forget that The Speaker did not show respect to those that were protesting back in April. She called them names and ridiculed their cause.

She earned their disrespect.

I respect President Obama. I disagree with him but he has yet to show me disrespect. He shows many of the GOP disrespect, but I am not GOP. And besides, the GOP has earned his disrespect; and as I see it, visa versa.

I respected my US Senator for years (Schumer). I do not agree with him on most issues. But he did not lose my respect until this year. Then he ridiculed my sentiments. He made fun of those that think like me. He no longer has my respect as he does not respect me.

I respect you. I disagree with you, but you have not yet shown me real disresepct. Sure you played with me last week, but I did with you as well. But neither of us called each other names or told each other how our thinking was rediculous.

The Harvard story is not unique. Many on the right ridiculed those on the left that protested Palin attending a University seminar. Hypocrtiical for a consertvative to say a student can not protest, but they said it anyway.

Much like all of those that protested the Iraq war over the years. They were not just protesting the war, they were protesting the administration. And now those same people are ridiculing those that protest this administration.

Anyway, we will never see eye to eye on this as you have a very solid, not swaying view of the tea partyers; one that I just dont have the energy to debate anymore. We see them as exact opposites, and you continually use them as an example to support your sentiments, so the only way I can refute what you say is by addressing your feelings on the tea partyers. But you are strong on your conictions about them, and there is nothing I can say to change that.

So, as I said, I respectfully disagree with you and whereeas I respect your stance, I ask that you respect min.

I'm sorry, I forgot the protesters themselves were being respectful.

One look at those signs and one day of listening to Tea Party attendees on talk radio, and what Pelosi did was respectful---in the way those people were. Did se call them vile names and misrepresent everything they were saying?

The fact is the Tea Party rallies have become a way for people to vent anger and frustration---they are adult sized pity pots and, hate filled rallies.

I understand the feelings of frustration and anger the Tea Party attendees feel. I do not respect how they are manipulated and respond to things.

Extremism is not pretty. It is ugly. It does nothing to promote solutions that benefit any just cause. It will always take the low road with disastrous results.

thank you for showing respect for opinions that differ.


dD

Please show me where I showed respect for opinons that differ.
How dare you make such an accusation at the expense of my credibility.

On a serious note:

I will be more open minded about the tea partyers, but I know what I see and hear; and I do not see what you see. But I will look closer for what you see. ALl I ask is that you look closer for what I see.

And as for certain political entities being part of the tea party:

As of now, (and I will look closer), I see them CAPITALIZING on the tea partyers; much like many capitalized on the fgiref of Cindy Sheehan.

And I, for one, did not hold that against Cindy Sheehan. She became a pawn, not a participant.

 

[Tom Clancy]

Hmm.. Somebody burns the flag and you don't get offended? Your quite the Patriot.

Find it funny? what the hell?

My View: If i see the American Flag burning, i would get offended, i wouldn't find it funny at all, but i can't do anything about it, it's protected by the Constitution..

@ avatar:

<= Oh my God, it's the shield of shame.

(I say that as someone who wore it for four years.)

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Please show me where I showed respect for opinons that differ.
How dare you make such an accusation at the expense of my credibility.

On a serious note:

I will be more open minded about the tea partyers, but I know what I see and hear; and I do not see what you see. But I will look closer for what you see. ALl I ask is that you look closer for what I see.

And as for certain political entities being part of the tea party:

As of now, (and I will look closer), I see them CAPITALIZING on the tea partyers; much like many capitalized on the fgiref of Cindy Sheehan.

And I, for one, did not hold that against Cindy Sheehan. She became a pawn, not a participant.

I dare much.

---

You do not see what I see. Maybe it is about the larger view with a narrow focus. I said I understand the anger and frustration people feel. I understand people feeling helpless when things aren't going well. I am a student of history and of human beings, so I see all populist movements as potential threats to the well being of society.

I see large gatherings as places where people put aside their egos for a group identity that is always in opposition to an 'other' and that can be dangerous. I think crowd mentalities create group hysteria and hallucinations. I have seen a few race riots where people involved did not see and hear what I did---because unlike me they got caught up in the crowd. I am no better than these people I knew well, but I was more of an individual with a strong sense of self and an ego not easily given up for a group to belong to.

I see the anger and frustration of Tea Party rallies without the camaraderie that would distort the senses. I've seen this before. It is not pretty to those outside the group.

 

[Father Time]

pee comes out of your bladder sterile.. you can drink it.

its not completely sterile as much undigestable/unusable stuff is passed out in it. depending on what you ate and drank leading up to drinking the pee you could be very sick after only drinking a mouthful. there are surivival methods, shown on numerous discovery channels type shows, on how to use just the sun and a hole in the ground to completely sterilize pee to make it safe for unlimited drinking

True or False: It?s Safe to Drink Your Urine - HealthLibrary

With several caveats and under certain conditions, yes, it is safe to drink your urine.

The caveats, of course, are that if you have a urinary tract infection of some sort or take drugs, then your urine will contain those things as well.

urine - Urology - MedHelp

Yes, urine is considered sterile in the sense that it normally should not contain bacteria. Bacteriuria is the presence of bacteria in the urine that is not attributed to contamination from the skin, foreskin, or vagina. Although urine produced freshly by the kidneys is sterile (unless the individual has a kidney infection), it can become infected with bacteria or yeast in the presence of a urinary tract infection.

I'm afraid to ask how you know this information.

 

[Jarhead]

Please show me where I showed respect for opinons that differ.
How dare you make such an accusation at the expense of my credibility.

On a serious note:

I will be more open minded about the tea partyers, but I know what I see and hear; and I do not see what you see. But I will look closer for what you see. ALl I ask is that you look closer for what I see.

And as for certain political entities being part of the tea party:

As of now, (and I will look closer), I see them CAPITALIZING on the tea partyers; much like many capitalized on the fgiref of Cindy Sheehan.

And I, for one, did not hold that against Cindy Sheehan. She became a pawn, not a participant.

I dare much.

---

You do not see what I see. Maybe it is about the larger view with a narrow focus. I said I understand the anger and frustration people feel. I understand people feeling helpless when things aren't going well. I am a student of history and of human beings, so I see all populist movements as potential threats to the well being of society.

I see large gatherings as places where people put aside their egos for a group identity that is always in opposition to an 'other' and that can be dangerous. I think crowd mentalities create group hysteria and hallucinations. I have seen a few race riots where people involved did not see and hear what I did---because unlike me they got caught up in the crowd. I am no better than these people I knew well, but I was more of an individual with a strong sense of self and an ego not easily given up for a group to belong to.

I see the anger and frustration of Tea Party rallies without the camaraderie that would distort the senses. I've seen this before. It is not pretty to those outside the group.

And I see anger and frustration as well.
However, I also see plenty of comeraderie.

 

[saveliberty]

...and resolve.