When exactly does the Democrats' socialism kick in?

[struth]

You were given great examples. Examples you should already know about.
You chose to balk at them instead of engaging.

Example from a state that failed? That didn’t even stick around for the existence of the iPhone??

 

[TruthNotBS]

What's ridiculous is your bs that employees are slaves. The notion is a joke, a sick joke that any real slave would laugh at, if they didn't punch you first.

But it's vital to to Marxist sales pitch that people think of it that way, that they view themselves as hapless victims who can only be saved by state intervention.



Government corruption is a problem to be sure. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more we give the state power over labor and resources, the worse the problem will get.

The Marxist agenda is a class struggle, but not like they pretend. It's an attempt by the political class to transfer economic power from private wealth to the state, to themselves.

The socialist unicorn is the delusion that once they get their way, once the state controls labor and resources, wealth, greed and the lust for power will magically go away. That ambitious capitalists will reluctantly become subsistence farmers or something. But of course the lust for power won't go away. The people who are now chasing wealth via the free market will seek it through government "service" instead. And, when the economic power of wealth and the coercive power of the state are combined, they'll have much more power at their disposal.

What's ridiculous is your bs that employees are slaves.

Yes indeed, the employer-employee relationship under capitalism is a form of slavery, where one socioeconomic class exploits another for a profit, reducing human beings to a mere commodity in a "labor market". The capitalist-owned workplace is a totalitarian regime, and the employees who produce everything own nothing of what they produce and are forced to compete with each other for higher wages and benefits from their capitalist master/employer. It's a highly exploitative, dehumanizing, and destructive system of production that is completely unnecessary, especially today with all of the advanced production technology we have available.

The capitalist age is now coming to an end, thanks to advanced automation and artificial intelligence.

The notion is a joke, a sick joke that any real slave would laugh at, if they didn't punch you first.

In the 1800s, former slaves actually agreed, it was a common theme and understanding that employees are wage-slaves, selling their bodies, and their very lives to a capitalist employer for several hours daily. Under capitalism there's a labor class that rents its life to a capitalist ruling class on a daily basis, risking life and limb in hazardous environments, to enrich another socioeconomic class that owns everything, including the lives of those they rent. The capitalist class is a parasitical, leisure-seeking class, that relies on the labor of others to survive and enrich itself.

These capitalist parasites also take control of the government through their wealth, undermining democracy by passing laws that serve their vested interests at the great expense of the public good.

But it's vital to to Marxist sales pitch that people think of it that way, that they view themselves as hapless victims who can only be saved by state intervention.

The capitalist parasites are the ones constantly being "saved" and subsidized by the state.

Rank	Parent	Subsidy Value	Number of Awards
1	Boeing	$15,496,865,703	958
2	Intel	$8,421,707,656	135
3	Ford Motor	$7,742,056,086	703
4	General Motors	$7,524,714,800	792
5	Micron Technology	$6,790,131,915	21
6	Amazon.com	$5,823,705,434	460
7	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
8	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Venture Global LNG	$4,338,702,441	8
11	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
12	Volkswagen	$3,977,630,513	217
13	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
14	NRG Energy	$3,415,751,518	266
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Walt Disney	$2,543,219,673	265
20	Nucor	$2,538,761,123	176
21	Iberdrola	$2,380,558,984	110
22	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$2,364,054,012	7
23	Hyundai Motor	$2,349,743,470	18
24	Oracle	$2,272,418,288	96
25	Shell PLC	$2,211,676,001	132
26	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
27	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
28	Meta Platforms Inc.	$2,098,261,272	82
29	Toyota	$2,071,010,689	239
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,054,325,527	125
31	Brookfield Corporation	$1,979,408,388	288
32	Paramount Global	$1,974,249,897	342
33	Comcast	$1,927,402,844	405
34	Exxon Mobil	$1,917,119,478	241
35	Samsung Electronics	$1,891,136,597	41
36	Apple Inc.	$1,845,004,670	63
37	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,830,986,253	1,200
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	JPMorgan Chase	$1,740,972,699	1,151
41	Energy Transfer	$1,736,836,843	175
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	General Electric	$1,645,135,367	958
45	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
46	Duke Energy	$1,580,421,869	86
47	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,563,595,610	64
48	General Atomics	$1,510,875,891	112
49	IBM Corp.	$1,497,901,697	368
50	Lockheed Martin	$1,462,674,082	325
51	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
52	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
53	Corning Inc.	$1,391,603,359	401
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,366,243,159	113
56	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
57	Northrop Grumman	$1,284,014,883	285
58	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
59	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
60	RTX Corporation	$1,193,950,954	797
61	CF Industries	$1,134,394,215	131
62	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
63	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
64	AES Corp.	$1,039,510,135	136
65	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,025,557,482	88
66	Exelon	$986,892,877	98
67	Pyramid Companies	$973,565,278	93
68	SK Holdings	$960,550,283	8
69	SkyWest	$944,296,654	339
70	Centene	$916,607,054	60
71	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
72	Apollo Global Management	$897,750,089	594
73	Delta Air Lines	$871,485,833	13
74	Jefferies Financial Group	$871,137,335	16
75	SK Hynix	$866,700,000	2
76	Bayer	$852,475,226	217
77	Honda	$849,832,301	93
78	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
79	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
80	SunEdison	$817,425,725	115
81	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
82	Bank of America	$798,426,128	956
83	E.ON	$786,865,473	40
84	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$786,835,708	219
85	EDF-Electricite de France	$774,590,441	36
86	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
87	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
88	Related Companies	$714,675,504	8
89	Koch Industries	$683,066,388	510
90	Caithness Energy	$672,688,888	30
91	Dell Technologies	$658,417,951	185
92	Wells Fargo	$657,333,216	542
93	FedEx	$647,035,546	633
94	Entergy	$638,533,387	235
95	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
96	Eli Lilly	$623,326,368	79
97	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
98	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1
99	Dominion Energy	$615,436,089	79

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Socialism is always a "good investment and practice" when the wealthiest people in our society, the capitalist ruling class, are the direct recipients of public funds, but when the government serves the public (94% of the population is of the working class), it's being supposedly fiscally irresponsible and resorting to tyrannical nanny state control over everyone. How convenient.

​

Government corruption is a problem to be sure. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more we give the state power over labor and resources, the worse the problem will get.

Bullshit, the more we give the capitalist class power over public resources and the people's commonwealth, the worse our problems will get. Privatizing all of our nation's infrastructure and what should be the American people's commonwealth, is the real problem. You're just a shill for the ruling leisure class because either you're one of them or you're one of their brainwashed, working-class consumer drones, trying to commodify everything, in the interest of your masters.

At least the government holds elections, allowing us to elect our managers, whereas capitalist-employers never hold elections. The American working-class should collectively own all of the companies they currently work for and run them democratically and they should use the power of their government to serve their interests, just as the capitalist class currently does. The sooner the big-money capitalist parasite class is placed under the heel of the working class the better.

The Marxist agenda is a class struggle, but not like they pretend. It's an attempt by the political class to transfer economic power from private wealth to the state, to themselves.

More capitalist claptrap bullshit. First of all, I'm a socialist, but I'm not a Marxist, so you're barking up the wrong tree. I agree with Marx on many of his observations and critiques of capitalism, but that doesn't by default make me a Marxist. I just recognize that it's better for our democratic government to manage mass production in collaboration with the working class (worker-owned and democratically-run cooperatives) until there's no longer a need for such collaboration.

The capitalist parasite class is an unnecessary middleman, that serves no constructive purpose, other than to exploit human labor and expropriate and control public resources.

When does the state's services and infrastructure become unnecessary? When the individual consumer, through advanced technology has the capacity to produce everything they consume without anyone else's assistance. Until such conditions are present, the working class will own the means of production collectively and democratically, through their government. It's that simple.

The socialist unicorn is the delusion that once they get their way, once the state controls labor and resources, wealth, greed and the lust for power will magically go away.

Much of the lust for wealth, greed, and power is conditioned and inculcated by the culture and a person's education. Our society's values heavily influence how greedy and lustful we are for personal, self-serving, destructive power. Under capitalism, such human-based desires and flaws are magnified 10 fold. Moreover, in democratic socialism, there are many controls in place to keep the people in full democratic command of their government, that are much more effective and robust than anything we now have here in the United States. We are currently living in a plutocratic oligarchy, that pretends to be democratic, when in fact it's the furthest thing from that.

 

[dblack]

Yes indeed, the employer-employee relationship under capitalism is a form of slavery ...

I'm simply not going to let you get away with making such an asinine statement. Even if you want to pretend that employment is "like" slavery, socialism is far worse. In a free market if you have have a falling out with your employer, you're free to look for other ways to make a living. There are other employers and you're free to start your own business if you want. Under socialism, there's only one game in town. And if you don't do as you're told, the consequences are far more extreme - compare losing your salary for a month or two to being sent to a gulag.

In the 1800s, former slaves actually agreed, it was a common theme and understanding that employees are wage-slaves, selling their bodies, and their very lives to a capitalist employer for several hours daily.

Sure, sure. That's why they were begging to have slavery re-instated.

At least the government holds elections, allowing us to elect our managers, whereas capitalist-employers never hold elections.

And that brings us back to your irrational faith in democracy to solve all problems and right all wrongs. The irony is that democracy, especially in a diverse country like the US, really only works when the powers of government are strictly limited.

Democratic government depends on the consent of the governed. Most importantly, it depends on the consent on the minority in any given vote. For democracy to succeed, it's necessary that we all have enough faith in the system that we're willing to live under leadership that we didn't vote for. As long as government power is reliably limited, that's not so hard to do. The "other side" can only so much damage.

But as government power grows, it becomes harder and harder to concede power to the "other side". That's the situation we find ourselves in now. As we keep piling on with more and more laws, as government takes over more and more aspects of society, we see less and less consent of the governed. And the nation becomes, is becoming, ungovernable.

This will be amplified ten fold if the state takes over labor and the distribution of wealth and resources.

[-- senseless propaganda memes omitted --]

Much of the lust for wealth, greed, and power is conditioned and inculcated by the culture and a person's education. Our society's values heavily influence how greedy and lustful we are for personal, self-serving, destructive power. Under capitalism, such human-based desires and flaws are magnified 10 fold.

Unicorn indeed. Ambition is a human trait, it doesn't depend on government. It will be there under socialism just as much as it is under capitalism. Greedy people will merely navigate the ranks of government, rather than the market.