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It's fun, I'm sure you haven't heard about the free Ukraine territories before I told you.It's because you came here with that name and agenda like some kind of masochist. It's like wearing a meat suit to feed the bears.It's like a gang bang, and I'm receiving.
In my mind, if you have the means to, sure, why not, it's a decent and good thing to do.
I'm not angry, I'm parroting you.It's clear by your posts that it is your age. - This is the stupidity you are presenting to me.Yeah, that's totally what I've done, I know your 76 years old and have erectile dysfunction, prove me wrong. See your stupidity?
Well, you're right about one thing, and it's not my age.
BTW, why are you now attacking me on a personal level? I haven't done that to you. So why resort to it yourself?
You're so angry. I'm making a sincere effort to engage you in a meaningful conversation. Are you not interested in a meaningful conversation? Would you prefer a flamefest of insults? I can do that too, if that's your preference. Please tell me which one you want.
Absolutely! That's one of the main ideas of communism. You'll receive food.In my mind, if you have the means to, sure, why not, it's a decent and good thing to do.
Okay.
No.
I'm retiring. I'm not going to produce anymore food.
Oh look, I don't have any food now. I'm hungry. I have a need. My need is great.
What now? Are you going to give to me, according to my need?
That's a shame then, because it's true, however we all have our own crosses to bear and I'll not deny you yours.I'm sorry, but past events in history don't let me believe this.Not even close, however capitalism works as well as it does because it's an amoral system perfectly comfortable with high levels of greed. It fits humanity to a T, hence the problem. For any form of Marxism to work, even a mixed economy, you need humanity to rise above its nature and that is usually asking too much, if it can even manage such a thing at all, which happens rarely. There is no solution to human suffering beyond extinction, Marxist or otherwise.I believe humanity is at its worst under capitalism, nothing is perfect, but let's be real now man...
Marx wasn't so much wrong as he was overly faithful and idealistic. Had he seen what versions of hell modern man was soon to create on earth, even he would have retired to an island and quietly drunk himself to death. I'd offer you hope, if I could, but such a thing would be a lie as there is none.
If you imagine that you share this planet with seven billion tiny demons straight from the bowels of Hell, you will find yourself that much father ahead of them as they race to catch you on their way to leaping into the abyss...
You assume it's true, we all assume these things.That's a shame then, because it's true, however we all have our own crosses to bear and I'll not deny you yours.I'm sorry, but past events in history don't let me believe this.Not even close, however capitalism works as well as it does because it's an amoral system perfectly comfortable with high levels of greed. It fits humanity to a T, hence the problem. For any form of Marxism to work, even a mixed economy, you need humanity to rise above its nature and that is usually asking too much, if it can even manage such a thing at all, which happens rarely. There is no solution to human suffering beyond extinction, Marxist or otherwise.I believe humanity is at its worst under capitalism, nothing is perfect, but let's be real now man...
Marx wasn't so much wrong as he was overly faithful and idealistic. Had he seen what versions of hell modern man was soon to create on earth, even he would have retired to an island and quietly drunk himself to death. I'd offer you hope, if I could, but such a thing would be a lie as there is none.
If you imagine that you share this planet with seven billion tiny demons straight from the bowels of Hell, you will find yourself that much father ahead of them as they race to catch you on their way to leaping into the abyss...
Absolutely! That's one of the main ideas of communism. You'll receive food.
No assumptions are necessary, not at this point.You assume it's true, we all assume these things.That's a shame then, because it's true, however we all have our own crosses to bear and I'll not deny you yours.I'm sorry, but past events in history don't let me believe this.Not even close, however capitalism works as well as it does because it's an amoral system perfectly comfortable with high levels of greed. It fits humanity to a T, hence the problem. For any form of Marxism to work, even a mixed economy, you need humanity to rise above its nature and that is usually asking too much, if it can even manage such a thing at all, which happens rarely. There is no solution to human suffering beyond extinction, Marxist or otherwise.I believe humanity is at its worst under capitalism, nothing is perfect, but let's be real now man...
Marx wasn't so much wrong as he was overly faithful and idealistic. Had he seen what versions of hell modern man was soon to create on earth, even he would have retired to an island and quietly drunk himself to death. I'd offer you hope, if I could, but such a thing would be a lie as there is none.
If you imagine that you share this planet with seven billion tiny demons straight from the bowels of Hell, you will find yourself that much father ahead of them as they race to catch you on their way to leaping into the abyss...
Production would be collectively owned, if you want to pull the bullshit of people not wanting to work, just look at the examples in my signature, or human history. Come on, we have great technologies now. Utter bullshit, this didn't happen.Absolutely! That's one of the main ideas of communism. You'll receive food.
Produced by whom? I'm one of the best producers in the country.
What are you going to do when other top producers figure out that they can do nothing, and create "need" by refusing to work? There will be no food left, but the entire country will starve with need. How are you going to feed them all?
Yes it is.....When unions were in their hey day, not only did the collectives have numbers, they also had....now pay close attention....The support of the community at large. Union labor at its peak claimed roughly 35% of AmericansKeep spewing bullshit. Collective bargaining is coercion? What a fucking idiot.Sure it is....Collective.....Get it?Collective bargaining is not socialism.Sounds like socialismYou can't exploit the workers, if they start working together.
Tell me friend, are you a socialist?
BTW, the more accurate term is collective coercion.
Pretty much, you do not have to educate me on the subject. I told you I was once just like you but grew disenchanted with the whole thing because people are basically stupid and there is no way to make them wise up. These days I am a pragmatist with little patience for political dogma of any kind and one day you too will give up the deeply disappointing activity of expecting too much wisdom from the masses.Did you ignore what I posted?Hierarchical systems are stable with little more than relative safety and adequate food and shelter. They are the natural state of human societies because they do not require the masses to think for themselves, a horrible chore to the majority of human beings. Intellectuals could do it OK but as you well know intellectuals are a miniscule minority and are just about never allowed to wield the levers of power.They didn't in the paris commune, the free ukraine, etc, etc, etc... It takes education to make people realize it's possible.We already have, we have accomplished it, and if we can't, we already have the concept of no state that has been achieved, the concept of direct democracy, it doesn't devolve, the examples I've given that worked were violently overthrown, look what happened to those in the paris commune.It's just how humans are wired, we cannot conceive a system where there is no ruling hierarchy, no big boss controlling everything. It's why Socialism/Marxism devolves into everything it claims to hate. Our reptilian mid-brain demands a clear leader but leaders usually place themselves above the rabble and serve their own interests, something Marxism aims for but can never truly achieve on a large scale.
7 Million during a revolution, and the bolsheviks fighting against the anarchists, and they succeeded,The Free Territory (Ukrainian: Вільна територіяvilna terytoriya; Russian: свободная территорияsvobodnaya territoriya) or Makhnovia (МахновщинаMakhnovshchyna) was an attempt to form a statelessanarchist[1] society during the Ukrainian Revolution. It existed from 1918 to 1921, during which time "free soviets" and libertariancommunes[2] operated under the protection of Nestor Makhno's Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army. The population of the area was around seven million.[3]
I used to be just like you but had to temper my revolutionary zeal with the hard fact that people live how they want to live and they want to live under presidents, kings, warlords and generalissimos. It really makes no sense that people willingly give away so much personal responsibility to these self serving sociopaths but they do.
If you're trying to say socialism/anarchism/etc doesn't work, please, refer to my signature, and consider the paris commune, the Ukrainian free territories, the anarchist movements in spain..No more than anything else that works.Sounds like socialismYou can't exploit the workers, if they start working together.
Tell me friend, are you a socialist?
What did I just read? Anarchists have succeeded in the past. Labor unions? Oh boy, here we go.Yes it is.....When unions were in their hey day, not only did the collectives have numbers, they also had....now pay close attention....The support of the community at large. Union labor at its peak claimed roughly 35% of AmericansKeep spewing bullshit. Collective bargaining is coercion? What a fucking idiot.Sure it is....Collective.....Get it?Collective bargaining is not socialism.Sounds like socialismYou can't exploit the workers, if they start working together.
Tell me friend, are you a socialist?
BTW, the more accurate term is collective coercion.
The union bosses spoiled that. They wrecked themselves by demanding too much. Unions got greedy. And with the advent of international competition, unions failed to adjust. Unions exploited their members to make a point. So many businesses had to close their doors. Did it affect the supply of those goods and services? No. Once union bosses began costing jobs, they lost the support of the community. That was the beginning of the steady decline of organized labor.
Unions have become so unpopular that it is nearly impossible for unions to even get a meeting with an employer or the employees. No one want to deal with them.
Anarchists? What do they do...Go to the G * and G 20 Summits, turn over and set afire a few cars, throw flaming bags of dog shit around the streets? And have accomplished what?
I can tell you one goal. Anarchists succeeded in letting the rest of know they they are a bunch of lazy unkempt non working scum buckets that would live in their own piss and shit just to prove their are outside of the "establishment"...
Ya wanna know why the largest and most recent anarchist movement failed so miserably? Humor. We laughed at those idiot OWS jagoffs.
Hilarious, tell me, what was the free Ukraine territory surrounded by? Not like it was the bolsheviks or anything..If you're trying to say socialism/anarchism/etc doesn't work, please, refer to my signature, and consider the paris commune, the Ukrainian free territories, the anarchist movements in spain..No more than anything else that works.Sounds like socialismYou can't exploit the workers, if they start working together.
Tell me friend, are you a socialist?
That's like saying that the Amish can work in Syria just as they can in the US. No socialist/communist/anarchist movement in the world works unless surrounded by a healthy amount of capitalists willing to spend money on them and buy their goods. Take away capitalism and they will collapse just like any other fringe group.
It worked in the past, I'm sorry if that upsets you, but other countries are realizing how fucked up the world is.Pretty much, you do not have to educate me on the subject. I told you I was once just like you but grew disenchanted with the whole thing because people are basically stupid and there is no way to make them wise up. These days I am a pragmatist with little patience for political dogma of any kind and one day you too will give up the deeply disappointing activity of expecting too much wisdom from the masses.Did you ignore what I posted?Hierarchical systems are stable with little more than relative safety and adequate food and shelter. They are the natural state of human societies because they do not require the masses to think for themselves, a horrible chore to the majority of human beings. Intellectuals could do it OK but as you well know intellectuals are a miniscule minority and are just about never allowed to wield the levers of power.They didn't in the paris commune, the free ukraine, etc, etc, etc... It takes education to make people realize it's possible.We already have, we have accomplished it, and if we can't, we already have the concept of no state that has been achieved, the concept of direct democracy, it doesn't devolve, the examples I've given that worked were violently overthrown, look what happened to those in the paris commune.
7 Million during a revolution, and the bolsheviks fighting against the anarchists, and they succeeded,
I used to be just like you but had to temper my revolutionary zeal with the hard fact that people live how they want to live and they want to live under presidents, kings, warlords and generalissimos. It really makes no sense that people willingly give away so much personal responsibility to these self serving sociopaths but they do.
Hilarious, tell me, what was the free Ukraine territory surrounded by? Not like it was the bolsheviks or anything..If you're trying to say socialism/anarchism/etc doesn't work, please, refer to my signature, and consider the paris commune, the Ukrainian free territories, the anarchist movements in spain..No more than anything else that works.Sounds like socialismYou can't exploit the workers, if they start working together.
Tell me friend, are you a socialist?
That's like saying that the Amish can work in Syria just as they can in the US. No socialist/communist/anarchist movement in the world works unless surrounded by a healthy amount of capitalists willing to spend money on them and buy their goods. Take away capitalism and they will collapse just like any other fringe group.
Not capitalists, and the paris commune, the other ones in my signature.. How are they receiving capitalist help? Tell me how, and when.Hilarious, tell me, what was the free Ukraine territory surrounded by? Not like it was the bolsheviks or anything..If you're trying to say socialism/anarchism/etc doesn't work, please, refer to my signature, and consider the paris commune, the Ukrainian free territories, the anarchist movements in spain..No more than anything else that works.Sounds like socialism
Tell me friend, are you a socialist?
That's like saying that the Amish can work in Syria just as they can in the US. No socialist/communist/anarchist movement in the world works unless surrounded by a healthy amount of capitalists willing to spend money on them and buy their goods. Take away capitalism and they will collapse just like any other fringe group.
Funny, you dropped the other two? But what are they surrounded by? LOL, Russians.
Production would be collectively owned, if you want to pull the bullshit of people not wanting to work, just look at the examples in my signature, or human history.
Not capitalists, and the paris commune, the other ones in my signature.. How are they receiving capitalist help? Tell me how, and when.Hilarious, tell me, what was the free Ukraine territory surrounded by? Not like it was the bolsheviks or anything..If you're trying to say socialism/anarchism/etc doesn't work, please, refer to my signature, and consider the paris commune, the Ukrainian free territories, the anarchist movements in spain..No more than anything else that works.
That's like saying that the Amish can work in Syria just as they can in the US. No socialist/communist/anarchist movement in the world works unless surrounded by a healthy amount of capitalists willing to spend money on them and buy their goods. Take away capitalism and they will collapse just like any other fringe group.
Funny, you dropped the other two? But what are they surrounded by? LOL, Russians.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. I'm sorry, but you've established all I needed to know. You've ignored the working examples I've given, keep calling countries that were never socialist, and saying they went into socialism, then stalinism, as if that means anything when they weren't even fucking socialist. Modified form? Bullshit, quit ignoring facts.Production would be collectively owned, if you want to pull the bullshit of people not wanting to work, just look at the examples in my signature, or human history.
What history has taught is is that socialism generally does not work for nations. It devolves into Stalinism or Castroism, and only manages to survive a relatively short time in a "modified" form where equality is abandoned and rejected de facto, and is nothing more than a propaganda piece by which an oligarchy maintains power.
