When will liberals admit their philosophy is a complete failure?

[Levant]

As for guns laws, the law against having fully automatic weapons on the street seems to be working just fine. In fact, I do not recall a single mass shooting by a fully automatic rifle, other than used by someone in the military.

You're pretty ignorant on gun laws. There are thousands of fully automatic weapons in private hands in the US.

 

[Agit8r]

And most of the new COVID cases can be traced back to church attendence.

 

[Levant]

What a fucking idiot. Am I correct in assuming you would think then, that the Daily Kos and Media Matters are “100% correct 100% reliable”....I mean they must be, right? (Sarcasm alert).

When they're right, they're right. If you link them and they're wrong, I'll prove they're wrong rather than repeat the name of the source as if that singly-stupid act, by itself, could prove me right. You're the idiot. You couldn't win a debate with monkey. Your intellectual and debating skills totally suck. You know nothing of facts or choose to ignore the facts. If you want to play, at least bring your B game since you don't have an A game.

 

[Coyote]

And most of those violent deaths are by....yup. Guns. And cities are largely prevented from putting up stronger laws because...oh ya...Republicans.

In typical leftist fashion, when the logic and the facts prove you wrong, change the subject. But that's ok, we can whip you on that one, too.

There's a fundamental concept about gun control in the inner cities that you're missing - very likely on purpose. People who use guns to break laws don't care about your silly gun control laws. Gun control is why the criminals are so powerful. The law abiding are left defenseless against those who ignore the law - including laws against murder, rape, robbery, drugs, or anything else, including gun control laws.

How is pointing out causes of increased violent crime in a discussion about cities rife with violent crime changing the subject?

Like a typical rightist, you think complex problems have simple causes and ignore what doesnt fit your talking points. The argument that criminals don't care about gun laws is the dumbest yet. I have news for you, they don't care about ANY laws, therefor, with your logic, we should have NO laws. Maybe the anarchists have more in common with you then you think.

 

[Levant]

And most of the new COVID cases can be traced back to church attendence.

Can it? Then, please do trace it back and show us the evidence.

 

[Agit8r]

And most of the new COVID cases can be traced back to church attendence.

Can it? Then, please do trace it back and show us the evidence.

And this ain't even a churchy state Everything we know about the eastern Oregon church at the center of state’s largest coronavirus outbreak

 

[SavannahMann]

The truth is that both the radical right and left are devotee’s of failed ideals.

Socialism has never worked. That is a truth that is undeniable to anyone except those who have read the theories and can’t imagine that the theories which appear perfect on paper do not actually work in practice. And I admit, on paper, the socialism beliefs appear good. Equality, and a simple application. Provide for the people, and take care of them. All working towards a single unified goal. It just never works. Never. Because socialism requires control over the creative process of each individual, and anyone who challenges the status quo is an enemy. So without that individual creative outlet, the system fails. It will always fail. Just as it always has.

But RW extreme ideals also fail. The get tough on crime attitude has been around since the 1980’s, and it hasn’t worked. We have the highest per capita prison population in the world. We spend more on housing our own citizens in prisons than any other nation. Instead of viewing this and seeing it as a failed experiment, the RW just like the LW demands even more. A double down on the process. It is not working because we aren’t tough enough.

Pure unrestricted capitalism doesn’t work either. Without social programs to assist those in need, we end up with a Libertarian Nightmare. And again, the Libertarians have some good ideas IMO. But nothing is ever 100% right. It is never a one size fits all answer. And that is where it always falls down. Because the Right and the Left hate each other, they will never sit down and compromise. They won’t find common ground, or an answer that neither is happy with, but both can live with. It is all or nothing. And that is what is wrong with our nation today.

We spend more time hating our opponents, calling them traitors, and demanding that they conform to our ideal of American instead of finding the common ground, even if it is just that we are all American. We feed off of the hate, and fan the flames of hatred. We have become a nation of disparate groups who detest the people in the other groups. We insist that only those who have our ideals, and agree with our ideals, are really Americans.

We are all Americans. We need to stop viewing each other as Blank Americans. Either Real Americans. African Americans. Hispanic Americans. Asian Americans. Muslim, Catholic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu. The blank is always there, waiting to be filled. We are all just Americans. He isn’t a Black Man. He is an American, who happens to be black. She isn’t a Hispanic Woman. She is an American who happens to be brown.

When we start to view our opponents as people, and see each other as equally American and equally people, we can find the common ground to be the foundation of our compromises. Until then, we will only increase the anger, and hatred. And here is the little secret. Your side will not win. It doesn’t matter what side you are on, you won’t win. Everyone will lose. Just as we all have been losing for too long now.

The Left is wrong. So is the Right. Get rid of the hate, and start over. That is our only hope.

 

[Levant]

And most of the new COVID cases can be traced back to church attendence.

Can it? Then, please do trace it back and show us the evidence.

And this ain't even a churchy state Everything we know about the eastern Oregon church at the center of state’s largest coronavirus outbreak

Nope. Not even close to most of Oregon's new cases are caused by church attendance.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

But if it is harder to get a gun, and there are fewer guns out on the streets, it might improve the situation.

Sane people have a difficult time comprehending the “tone deafness” displayed at this time by your kind.

In times when the need for individuals to be prepared and equipped to defend ourselves and our property against rioting gangs of subhuman savages is becoming especially clear, this is not the time for your kind to talk about depriving us of that right. Not that there['s ever a time to be talking about depriving us of this right, but now, less than most times.

But just as I finished writing that last sentences,I realized that I am erring in assuming that you're on the side of decent, law-abiding citizens; a stupid error for me to make given how consistently you have always shown yourself to be against our side, and on the side of the very lowest dregs of subhumanity, sexual perverts, violent criminals, tyrants, terrorists, and such. Remembering where you really stand, where you have always stood, it makes more sense to imagine you drooling more than usual, over a perceived opportunity to render law-abiding citizens unarmed, and easier prey for the kind with which you keep company.

Fuck you. Fuck you and all the subhuman degenerate criminal filth with whom you align. I can only hope that one day, you try looting the wrong home or the wrong shop, and the owner thereof does to you what you most deserve.

 

[georgephillip]

It's notable that here, you explicitly denounce capitalism and free market, which were among the “liberal” values enumerated in the paragraph that I quoted from your previous cite; which supports my point that modern “LIbEralism” has nothing to do with the classical understanding of what liberalism once represented

Capitalism and a free market had much different understandings when classical liberalism began. The former was seen as an improvement over feudalism and slavery for a majority of humanity while markets were to become free of the influence of hereditary wealth. The rise of corporations in the late 19th and early 20th century changed that forever. Conservatives today venerate individual and corporate wealth the same way they once worshiped their King; liberals don't.

 

[Mr Natural]

Could that place be any more gaudy?

 

[Nostra]

And most of those violent deaths are by....yup. Guns. And cities are largely prevented from putting up stronger laws because...oh ya...Republicans.

In typical leftist fashion, when the logic and the facts prove you wrong, change the subject. But that's ok, we can whip you on that one, too.

There's a fundamental concept about gun control in the inner cities that you're missing - very likely on purpose. People who use guns to break laws don't care about your silly gun control laws. Gun control is why the criminals are so powerful. The law abiding are left defenseless against those who ignore the law - including laws against murder, rape, robbery, drugs, or anything else, including gun control laws.

How is pointing out causes of increased violent crime in a discussion about cities rife with violent crime changing the subject?

Like a typical rightist, you think complex problems have simple causes and ignore what doesnt fit your talking points. The argument that criminals don't care about gun laws is the dumbest yet. I have news for you, they don't care about ANY laws, therefor, with your logic, we should have NO laws. Maybe the anarchists have more in common with you then you think.

You are the only moron suggesting we have NO laws. Laws don't prevent criminals from breaking them. That's why they are called "criminals". Laws are there to punish them when they are caught, so your idea of removing all laws is dumb, even for you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That is the age old divide between conservative and liberal ideology: what is incumbent on the individual vs. what is incumbent on the state. Individual responsibility vs. collective responsibility.

What did and does a society built on “personal responsibility“ and no social programs (social responsibility) look like?

It looks like the United States of America until the 20th century. There were social programs. Communities ran them. Neighbors ran them. Even states ran them.

And those are great...in so far as they went, but didn’t begin to cover the need. In addition, they could impose whatever restrictions they wanted. The state programs could as well. Because poverty was regarded as a character flaw, they could impose public humiliation.

There are some excellent photo archives documenting life among the pre-social programs and they grim. High rates of infant and child mortality, malnutrition, street children.

Oh, please. Your so-called solution to "covering the need" did nothing but manufacture more need. Likewise your horror of "restrictions". Poverty may or may not be a result of character flaws, but it definitely cannot be corrected without good life decisions.

 

[Coyote]

That is the age old divide between conservative and liberal ideology: what is incumbent on the individual vs. what is incumbent on the state. Individual responsibility vs. collective responsibility.

What did and does a society built on “personal responsibility“ and no social programs (social responsibility) look like?

It looks like the United States of America until the 20th century. There were social programs. Communities ran them. Neighbors ran them. Even states ran them.

And those are great...in so far as they went, but didn’t begin to cover the need. In addition, they could impose whatever restrictions they wanted. The state programs could as well. Because poverty was regarded as a character flaw, they could impose public humiliation.

There are some excellent photo archives documenting life among the pre-social programs and they grim. High rates of infant and child mortality, malnutrition, street children.

Oh, please. Your so-called solution to "covering the need" did nothing but manufacture more need. Likewise your horror of "restrictions". Poverty may or may not be a result of character flaws, but it definitely cannot be corrected without good life decisions.

Poverty is driven by many different factors, sometimes having nothing to do with decisions one makes.

What do you mean by “my horror of restrictions”? We have not discussed restrictions, if you are psychic....you need to tune your receiver.

 

[Dick Foster]

Here's a conservative policy better than Social Security and Medicare: Personal Responsibility.

Here's another: Families supporting their own.

Here's another: Communities supporting their own.

Here's another: The Constitution of the United States of America.

That is the age old divide between conservative and liberal ideology: what is incumbent on the individual vs. what is incumbent on the state. Individual responsibility vs. collective responsibility.

What did and does a society built on “personal responsibility“ and no social programs (social responsibility) look like?

America, stupid. Or is history among all of the other topics you're so completely ignorant of?

 

[Coyote]

Here's a conservative policy better than Social Security and Medicare: Personal Responsibility.

Here's another: Families supporting their own.

Here's another: Communities supporting their own.

Here's another: The Constitution of the United States of America.

That is the age old divide between conservative and liberal ideology: what is incumbent on the individual vs. what is incumbent on the state. Individual responsibility vs. collective responsibility.

What did and does a society built on “personal responsibility“ and no social programs (social responsibility) look like?

America, stupid. Or is history among all of the other topics you're so completely ignorant of?

Aparently I have more knowledge of history than you do since America has a network of social programs and safety nets and has for some time.

I suspect your ignorance is congenital and unfixable given the burden of your extreme ideology.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That is the age old divide between conservative and liberal ideology: what is incumbent on the individual vs. what is incumbent on the state. Individual responsibility vs. collective responsibility.

What did and does a society built on “personal responsibility“ and no social programs (social responsibility) look like?

It looks like the United States of America until the 20th century. There were social programs. Communities ran them. Neighbors ran them. Even states ran them.

And those are great...in so far as they went, but didn’t begin to cover the need. In addition, they could impose whatever restrictions they wanted. The state programs could as well. Because poverty was regarded as a character flaw, they could impose public humiliation.

There are some excellent photo archives documenting life among the pre-social programs and they grim. High rates of infant and child mortality, malnutrition, street children.

Oh, please. Your so-called solution to "covering the need" did nothing but manufacture more need. Likewise your horror of "restrictions". Poverty may or may not be a result of character flaws, but it definitely cannot be corrected without good life decisions.

Poverty is driven by many different factors, sometimes having nothing to do with decisions one makes.

What do you mean by “my horror of restrictions”? We have not discussed restrictions, if you are psychic....you need to tune your receiver.

That whooshing noise is the actual meaning of my post going over your head because you're so focused on your talking point, "Poor people are helpless victims who must get government checks, and that's all there is!"

Coyote: Poverty was considered a character flaw, and that's sooo bad!!

Me: Poverty may not be a character flaw, but getting out of it requires good decisions.

Coyote: Poverty isn't about character flaws!

Please explain to me how or why I'm supposed to view you as someone worthy of thoughtful responses when you make it so damned clear that you're talking to yourself with your fingers in your ears.

What do I mean by your horror of restrictions? Just that those noises you blather endlessly are called "words", and they have meanings which reveal whatever passes for your thoughts.

"And those are great...in so far as they went, but didn’t begin to cover the need. In addition, they could impose whatever restrictions they wanted. The state programs could as well. Because poverty was regarded as a character flaw, they could impose public humiliation."

This paragraph indicates that you think restrictions are bad, and equate them with "public humiliation". If that's not what you meant to convey, or you're shocked that your true feelings were "miraculously" uncovered, then I can only suggest that you learn English before attempting to use it.

 

[Levant]

Poverty is driven by many different factors, sometimes having nothing to do with decisions one makes.

What do you mean by “my horror of restrictions”? We have not discussed restrictions, if you are psychic....you need to tune your receiver.

Name a cause of poverty - any cause that you think has nothing to do with the decisions one makes.

 

[francoHFW]

Le‘s take a look at some Dimwinger Utopias:

New York: Almost 1/3 of the Chinese Virus deaths of the entire country.

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per 1M Population | RealClearPolitics

Coronavirus Updates (COVID-19) Deaths & Cases per Population | RealClearPolitics

www.realclearpolitics.com

Seattle: Libtards surrender downtown to metrosexual snowflakes and let the set up a crime spree zone.

Second shooting in 48 hours injures teen Sunday night in Seattle’s CHOP area

A shooting — the second in 48 hours — was reported Sunday night in the area known as the CHOP, or Capitol Hill Organized Protest. A 17-year-old boy with a gunshot wound arrived at Harborview Medical Center in a private...

www.seattletimes.com

No
Chicago: Daily shooting gallery. Open season on blacks 24/7/365.

104 shot, 15 fatally, over Father’s Day weekend in Chicago

Five children were among the 15 people killed, including a 3-year-old boy and 13-year-old girl killed in separate shootings in Austin on Saturday.

chicago.suntimes.com

San Francisco: Requires a Human Shit Map to walk the streets.

View attachment 353534

Face it, your ideas have failed.

actually the result of 30 to 40 years of GOP dominance. The endless war on drugs so that blacks gangs are killing each other for who gets to sell drugs to white suburbanites and country people LOL.the greatest inequality and worst upward mobility in our history is just great. Thanks GOP. Only garbage hate propaganda makes this mess possible.

 

[francoHFW]

Poverty is driven by many different factors, sometimes having nothing to do with decisions one makes.

What do you mean by “my horror of restrictions”? We have not discussed restrictions, if you are psychic....you need to tune your receiver.

Name a cause of poverty - any cause that you think has nothing to do with the decisions one makes.

Lack of living wage, ridiculously expensive training and college. We did not just get the worst inequality and upward mobility the last 35 years because people just got stupid and lazy. You are a brain washed functional moron. 6 million tech jobs are going begging great job!