When your only other campaign strategy option is "I haven't been indicted yet"

[Said1]

Isn't that cute? Said, dillo and GZ putting on their own little minstrel show!

No. That would be improve. Foo.

 

[red states rule]

The Swiftboat vets weren't even there.

McCain is your party's only hope.

Glad to know how you feel about veterans who lose limbs in defense of their country. I know that Republicans only care about veterans who'll toe their Party line, but do you have to be so blatent about it?

Is that why Gore wanted to toss out the military vote in Fla in 2000? Because he loves them?

Is that why liberal Profesore call for the murder of our troops and openly state how they hope the US loses in Iraq?

Libs love our troops and show it by calling for them to murder their commanding officers.

I remember how John "I served in Viet Nam" Kerry called the troops terrorists on Meet the Press

Ted "Swimmer" Kennedy said Saddams' torture chambers are open under new management - the US military

Sen Dick Turbin called the troops Nazis on the Senate floor

Yes the libs love our troops. They stand shoulder to shoulder with them. However it is a cold shoulder

 

[Gunny]

The Swiftboat vets weren't even there.

McCain is your party's only hope.

Glad to know how you feel about veterans who lose limbs in defense of their country. I know that Republicans only care about veterans who'll toe their Party line, but do you have to be so blatent about it?

Attempting to toss out the "guilt trip" card seems to be a thing of yours.

Once again, you address only one side of the issue. The Dems could give a rat's ass about veterans or the military. Objectivity doesn't appear to be your forte.

 

[red states rule]

Attempting to toss out the "guilt trip" card seems to be a thing of yours.

Once again, you address only one side of the issue. The Dems could give a rat's ass about veterans or the military. Objectivity doesn't appear to be your forte.

McCain is our only hope? Sorry the I am not a Dem. McCain may be able to help the Dems in 08 but is a big fat zero in the Republican party

Dems have a long history of bashing and smearing our troops. The troops know that, and they showed that when they voted for Pres Bush over John "I served in Viet Nam" Kerry by a 75% - 25% margin

 

[jasendorf]

McCain is our only hope? Sorry the I am not a Dem. McCain may be able to help the Dems in 08 but is a big fat zero in the Republican party

Dems have a long history of bashing and smearing our troops. The troops know that, and they showed that when they voted for Pres Bush over John "I served in Viet Nam" Kerry by a 75% - 25% margin

Really, so, uh, I bash and smear myself...???

hmmmm... interesting.

Try again.

 

[Gunny]

McCain is our only hope? Sorry the I am not a Dem. McCain may be able to help the Dems in 08 but is a big fat zero in the Republican party

Dems have a long history of bashing and smearing our troops. The troops know that, and they showed that when they voted for Pres Bush over John "I served in Viet Nam" Kerry by a 75% - 25% margin

I think you quoted the wrong dude, dude.

 

[Gunny]

Really, so, uh, I bash and smear myself...???

hmmmm... interesting.

Try again.

Have you ever served under a Democrat President?

 

[jasendorf]

Is that why Gore wanted to toss out the military vote in Fla in 2000? Because he loves them?

That's not only a lie, it's a damned lie. But, I've come to expect lies from you. Truth is this, he wanted every vote counted equally. If a ballot was cast illegally, he wanted it tassed, but you only care about the rule of law when it suits you and your party.

Is that why liberal Profesore call for the murder of our troops and openly state how they hope the US loses in Iraq?

Cite one.

Libs love our troops and show it by calling for them to murder their commanding officers.

Cite one.

I remember how John "I served in Viet Nam" Kerry called the troops terrorists on Meet the Press

You do? Maybe you're far older than you've suggested then... since it was in 1971.

Ted "Swimmer" Kennedy said Saddams' torture chambers are open under new management - the US military

So you approve of the events at Abu Grahib? If so, then it is people with your mindset who get our troops killed and help fuel the insurgency.

Sen Dick Turbin called the troops Nazis on the Senate floor

Another lie. Not surprised... you have plenty to spread around. Actual text of what he said: "If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others -- that had no concern for human beings," Durbin said. "Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners."

Yes the libs love our troops. They stand shoulder to shoulder with them. However it is a cold shoulder

You know, I've been lots of places in uniform... and yet, I've never met one of these supposed liberals who will bash us everywhere we go... but, a strawman argument is better than no argument I guess.

 

[jasendorf]

I think you quoted the wrong dude, dude.

I've been working on your long post... take a long time to dispell so many lies all in one post. Couldn't you at least spread out the lies and disinformation?

 

[jasendorf]

Have you ever served under a Democrat President?

Let's see... I joined when Reagan was still President. Served under President Bush #1, President Clinton and now under President Bush the current.

So, no, not really... Clinton was a democrat like Alan Colmes is a liberal.

 

[red states rule]

You know, I've been lots of places in uniform... and yet, I've never met one of these supposed liberals who will bash us everywhere we go... but, a strawman argument is better than no argument I guess.

Here is Sen Turbin....

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent
describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would
most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their
gulags, or some mad regime =96 Pol Pot or others =96 that had no concern for
human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans
in the treatment of their prisoners.

Here is John "I served in Viet Nam" Kerry...........

And the is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night terrorizing kids and children, you know, women breaking sort of the customes of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs.

Will Senator Kerry apologize to his "brothers-in-arms" for once again maligning the character of the American citizen-soldier? It's like Vietnam all over again.

Warren Community College English professor, John Daly, said that real freedom will come when soldiers in Iraq turn their guns on their superiors. Rebecca Beach, a freshman at Warren Community College in Washington, New Jersey, received this unexpected reply to a recent email she sent the faculty at her school announcing the appearance of decorated Iraq war hero, Lt. Col. Scott Rutter, on Thursday, November 17 to discuss America’s accomplishments in Iraq.

In the email, Daly told Rebecca that he will ask students in his English and writing classes to boycott the event and also vowed to expose [her] right-wing, anti-people politics until groups like [Rebeccas] wont dare show their face on a college campus. Dalys mean spirited and hateful comments were directed at Rebecca for organizing Lt. Col. Scott Rutter and for hanging up fliers contrasting the number of people killed under communism to those liberated under Ronald Reagan.

The alleged 13 November email:

Dear Rebecca:

I am asking my students to boycott your event. I am also going to ask others to boycott it. Your literature and signs in the entrance lobby look like fascist propaganda and is extremely offensive. Your main poster “Communism killed 100,000,000″ is not only untrue, but ignores the fact that CAPITALISM has killed many more and the evidence for that can be seen in the daily news papers. The U.S. government can fly to dominate the people of Iraq in 12 hours, yet it took them five days to assist the people devastated by huricane Katrina. Racism and profits were key to their priorities.

I will continue to expose your right-wing, anti-people politics until groups like your won’t dare show their face on a college campus. Real freedom will come when soldiers in Iraq turn their guns on their superiors and fight for just causes and for people’s needs–such freedom fighters can be counted throughout American history and they certainly will be counted again.


A part-time professor at Warren County Community College stands by some controversial comments he e-mailed to a student there that have raised eyebrows around the country. John Daly, an adjunct English professor, said Thursday he believes the war in Iraq will end only when American soldiers turn their guns on their commanders. “The only possible end for the war is not going to be from our politicians, who represent corporations,” Daly said. “We’re going to stay in Iraq and occupy the Middle East as a profit source that will only change when the students at WCCC who are sent there to die for oil profits decide they’re not going to die there.”

Daly said he was a member of International ANSWER, an anti-war group. He e-mailed WCCC freshman Rebecca Beach on Sunday, responding to her request to tell his students about a campus visit by retired Lt. Col. Scott Rutter. Daly’s message eventually reached conservative broadcaster Sean Hannity, who read it Thursday during his nationally syndicated radio program.

Rutter, now a Fox News commentator, spoke Thursday about his experiences in Iraq as a battalion commander in the first and current wars in Iraq, and on the way the media report on Iraq.

Beach, a pre-law and political science major, founded the WCCC chapter of Young Americans for Freedom, a national conservative activist group. The group has about 15 members, Beach said. The group used $1,000 in student activities fees to bring Rutter to campus. The Young America’s Foundation, which brings conservative speakers to college campuses, co-sponsored Rutter’s talk.

“The administration at WCCC believes Rebecca Beach is an innocent student acting alone, but I recognized her literature right away as being part of a national right-wing movement,” Daly said. “Her group is an ultra right-wing, possibly fascist, group.”

Beach, who said she has never met Daly, said she invited Rutter to campus as part of her group’s celebration of Freedom Week, which commemorates Veterans Day and the toppling of the Berlin Wall on Nov. 9, 1989. She said she was shocked by Daly’s message. “We were just celebrating and raising awareness,” Beach said. “We want free speech and tolerance, and they want it for themselves and not for others. That’s just utterly ridiculous.”

I can post more examples, but you will continue to dismiss them - but I never tire of exposing liberalism for what it is.

Unpopular words recently tripped up two teachers — one a tenured history professor in New Mexico and the other a high school substitute in Pennsylvania.

Richard Berthold, a tenured University of New Mexico history professor, told a class of freshmen that "Anyone who can blow up the Pentagon has my vote." The statement has angered several state legislators and one has demanded that he be fired.

Meanwhile, Pittsburgh, Pa., substitute teacher John Gardner got his job back Sept. 21, a day after being suspended for writing "Osama bin Laden did us a favor!" in the margin of a newspaper that another teacher saw and reported to Pittsburgh Public Schools officials.

In the New Mexico controversy, Berthold says any attempt to fire him could violate his freedom of speech and would be "a slippery slope to get on when it comes to academic freedom and expression."

William Gordon, university president, also lashed out at Berthold.

"I consider the remark made by Professor Berthold to be irresponsible and deeply offensive," Gordon said in a statement released Sept. 21.

"While we all know that the First Amendment protects a broad range of speech, the fact that Professor Berthold's speech is protected does not make his comments any less repugnant," Gordon added.

Gordon said Berthold has "communicated to me his deep regret for what he said and his shame for having said it." He said Berthold has apologized to his students and would issue a public apology to the entire community.

In an interview with The Santa Fe New Mexican, Berthold, who has taught at the university for 29 years, said he was sorry he made the statement, but defended his right of free speech in the classroom.

"I was a jerk," he said Sept. 19. "But the First Amendment protects my right to be a jerk."

Rep. William Fuller, R-Albuquerque, a retired Army colonel whose son, also a colonel, works at the Pentagon, called for the university to fire Berthold.

"He didn't make these statements to his family in his living room," Fuller said on the House floor. "He didn't say it to friends at a table in a cafe or at a backyard barbecue. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

"But he said it as a person paid by the state at an institution funded by the state. And I have a problem with that."

Fuller's son was at another building when a hijacked plane crashed into the Pentagon on Sept. 11, where at least 189 people are believed to have been killed. The son works in an office in the same wing that was hit.

"His office was burned to smithereens," Fuller said. "If something had happened to my son, I would be having a much closer discussion with this professor."

Meanwhile in Pittsburgh, Gardner was reinstated Sept. 21 shortly after meeting with Pittsburgh Public Schools to explain the remark "Osama bin Laden did us a favor!" written in the margin of a newspaper. Gardner, 51, a disabled Army veteran who has four children in city schools, had been suspended without a hearing on Sept. 20. Gardner said he jotted down the phrase after somebody whose name he can't remember said something like this on MSNBC: "You could say Osama bin Laden did us a favor. He vulcanized us. He awakened us and strengthened our resolve."

Gardner said he noted the remark for a book he's been writing for eight years, to be titled "On the Wings of Adversity," which deals with finding the silver linings in the dark clouds of life.

School officials confirmed on the afternoon of Sept. 21 that Gardner's suspension had been lifted and that he would be paid for Sept. 20, when police escorted him off school grounds.

Pittsburgh schools spokeswoman Pat Crawford on the morning of Sept. 21 had defended the decision to suspend Gardner.

"You have to look at this in the light of everything else that's gone on in the world recently," Crawford had said.

"Just the name 'bin Laden' evokes fear on the part of a lot of people, and especially in a school setting, it was not good judgment for a substitute to be working on this project, which is a personal project, on school time," Crawford said. "He should have been devoting his full time to being a substitute teacher."

Substitute teachers must have school board approval to work in the district. They can be suspended or fired without a due-process hearing, but full-time teachers cannot under their contract, Crawford said.

The American Civil Liberties Union had planned to intervene on Gardner's behalf if he had not been reinstated.

Vic Walczak, executive director of the Pittsburgh ACLU, said he was "furious" over the school district's actions.

Walczak said Gardner should never have been suspended, even if the remark reflected an anti-American sentiment.

"The school district cannot punish somebody for expressing a dissenting opinion — as obnoxious as it may be — or if their expression doesn't meet some imagined minimal level of patriotism," Walczak said.

Gardner denied he did anything wrong — including working on his book on school time. He said he brought the newspaper from home and was transcribing notes he wrote on it into a notebook he is using for his book.

Gardner said he arrived at school at 8:10 a.m. — 45 minutes before the home room bell — and was copying the notes while a group of teachers, including the one who saw the bin Laden remark, held a short meeting. No students were present, he said.

Gardner said his opinion on bin Laden isn't much different from that espoused by President George W. Bush said Sept. 20 in an address to the nation.

"We are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom," Bush said.

"What if what Osama bin Laden did backfired on him? It's galvanized the country and we're getting rid of terrorism before he kills any more," Gardner said.

"Look at Israel and Palestine. They do not just have a state of cease fire, but an actual cease fire — because of this."

Gardner said even his suspension fits the theme of his book.

"It was an adversity, but something good came out of it," he said.

Update

University punishes professor for Sept. 11 remark
School official says Richard Berthold will receive letter of reprimand, won't be allowed to teach freshmen 'for the immediate future.'

 

[Gunny]

Let's see... I joined when Reagan was still President. Served under President Bush #1, President Clinton and now under President Bush the current.

So, no, not really... Clinton was a democrat like Alan Colmes is a liberal.

I beg to differ. Clinton had to play the moderate to get the vote. Just like Hillary has been trying to do, but she keeps gigging herself.

At any rate, the military fared FAR better under Reagan and Bush I than it did Carter or Clinton.

And dude, Gore tried to cheat his way into the Presidency by counting every little scratch and dent as a vote for himself while Bush had to be clear-cut unquestionable. That topic's not even good debate fodder anymore. What took place is obvious to anyone who doesn't have their blinders on.

You're playing semantics with Durbin's words. He in effect called our troops Nazis. First off, the fraternity-style crap that went on at Abu Ghraib was NOTHING compared to what the Nazis did. So that in itself was an exaggerated lie.

Second, he did not specify that the military personnel involved represented less than 1% of all military personnel, and 0% of the active force. Yes, it was a crime, and yes, those responsible were punished. The incident was hardly worth all the time, effort and $ it was given.

As a member of the military, you KNOW, or should, the military is far less lenient on criminals than civilians are. Once NIS/CID and/or the SJA smell blood, they're in for the kill.

So Dickie boy did his best to misrepresent the truth to support his political agenda. Simple as that.

 

[jasendorf]

Here is Sen Turbin....

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent
describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would
most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their
gulags, or some mad regime =96 Pol Pot or others =96 that had no concern for
human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans
in the treatment of their prisoners.

Already quoted it. And nowhere in it does he call our troops Nazis. Thanks for reitterating it.

Here is John "I served in Viet Nam" Kerry...........

And the is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night terrorizing kids and children, you know, women breaking sort of the customes of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs.

Are you saying they do?

As for the rest of your cut-and-paste-fest... why don't you pick out some highlights? I mean, really... Or, if you'd like I can go find a couple dozen pages with the smears the Karl Rove Team used against Max Cleland, John McCain and John Kerry... cut and paste, and pretend its some sort of argument.



I must admit though... I'm amazed at how hard the conservatives so desperately need to distract from the real issue that they'll go through all this work to DISTRACT, DEFLECT and DENY rather than address the topic itself.

 

[jasendorf]

I beg to differ. Clinton had to play the moderate to get the vote. Just like Hillary has been trying to do, but she keeps gigging herself.

At any rate, the military fared FAR better under Reagan and Bush I than it did Carter or Clinton.

And dude, Gore tried to cheat his way into the Presidency by counting every little scratch and dent as a vote for himself while Bush had to be clear-cut unquestionable. That topic's not even good debate fodder anymore. What took place is obvious to anyone who doesn't have their blinders on.

You're playing semantics with Durbin's words. He in effect called our troops Nazis. First off, the fraternity-style crap that went on at Abu Ghraib was NOTHING compared to what the Nazis did. So that in itself was an exaggerated lie.

Second, he did not specify that the military personnel involved represented less than 1% of all military personnel, and 0% of the active force. Yes, it was a crime, and yes, those responsible were punished. The incident was hardly worth all the time, effort and $ it was given.

As a member of the military, you KNOW, or should, the military is far less lenient on criminals than civilians are. Once NIS/CID and/or the SJA smell blood, they're in for the kill.

So Dickie boy did his best to misrepresent the truth to support his political agenda. Simple as that.

Read again what Durbin said. He stated that the report sounded more like the actions of those horrible groups than the actions of US military personnel. If anything, he was AGREEING that those actions weren't typical of our troops. And, just because the Nazis killed 6 million Jews doesn't mean that they didn't also perpetrate millions of lesser horrible things. I seriously don't understand the, "Well, the Nazis killed 6 million Jews, so, who cares if they tortured and raped them too!" line of reasoning.

Maybe you think the honor of our military isn't worth time or effort or money... but I do. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[red states rule]

I find to interesting the same thing libs are saying about our troops is the same thing al Jazeera is saying

No matter how you try to spin it or deny it Sen Turbin call the troops Nazis, John "I served in Viet Nam" called them terrorists, Ted "Swimmer" Kennedy said they are operating torture chambers, liberal professors want our troops dead, and want more 9-11 attacks on America

Go and enjoy your party and enjoy your minority status

 

[jasendorf]

At any rate, the military fared FAR better under Reagan and Bush I than it did Carter or Clinton.

I wanted to address this on its own merits.

The military drawdown of the 90's was a direct result of the excessive spending of the Cold War designed to force the Soviet Union out of business. Luckily the Democratic Congress allocated that money (at the behest of President Reagan) for our military to force them out of business.

The drawdown in forces was initiated by Reagan in 1988 through the BCC. Then, in 1991, Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney presided over the first major BRAC drawdowns. President GHW Bush understood that we couldn't, and shouldn't, retain a military to fight a superpower when no other superpowers existed. He set in motion (along with the Democratic Congress, because you can't pass a budget without them) the resulting drawdown.

President Clinton followed the eact path laid out by the BRAC reccommendations set forth by Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney. Then the REPUBLICAN HOUSE of 1995 CONTINUED the BRAC recommendations. And, to this day, they are STILL closing and realigning bases.

The military has done what the nation needed it to do. The nation doesn't serve us, we serve it. But, as long as we serve it... we shouldn't be used as a poltical football to hide the fiscal failures of the Administration.

 

[jasendorf]

I find to interesting the same thing libs are saying about our troops is the same thing al Jazeera is saying

No matter how you try to spin it or deny it Sen Turbin call the troops Nazis, John "I served in Viet Nam" called them terrorists, Ted "Swimmer" Kennedy said they are operating torture chambers, liberal professors want our troops dead, and want more 9-11 attacks on America

Go and enjoy your party and enjoy your minority status

Still waiting on citations for most of those. And, I've already proved many of your allegations lies... So... I guess we'll call it a draw. I can't discount your lies any more than I already have and you can't site anything for the rest of them.

 

[red states rule]

I wanted to address this on its own merits.

The military drawdown of the 90's was a direct result of the excessive spending of the Cold War designed to force the Soviet Union out of business. Luckily the Democratic Congress allocated that money (at the behest of President Reagan) for our military to force them out of business.

The drawdown in forces was initiated by Reagan in 1988 through the BCC. Then, in 1991, Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney presided over the first major BRAC drawdowns. President GHW Bush understood that we couldn't, and shouldn't, retain a military to fight a superpower when no other superpowers existed. He set in motion (along with the Democratic Congress, because you can't pass a budget without them) the resulting drawdown.

President Clinton followed the eact path laid out by the BRAC reccommendations set forth by Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney. Then the REPUBLICAN HOUSE of 1995 CONTINUED the BRAC recommendations. And, to this day, they are STILL closing and realigning bases.

The military has done what the nation needed it to do. The nation doesn't serve us, we serve it. But, as long as we serve it... we shouldn't be used as a poltical football to hide the fiscal failures of the Administration.

If this administration is so rooten to the military why did they vote for Pres Bush over John "I served in Viet Nam" Kerry by a 75% -25% margin?

 

[jasendorf]

If this administration is so rooten to the military why did they vote for Pres Bush over John "I served in Viet Nam" Kerry by a 75% -25% margin?

Hmmm... how exactly do you know that again? Oh, that's right... we have secret ballots in the U.S. You don't. But, it's an opt-repeated number that the cons like to throw out there with no POSSIBLE proof. Why, because if you propagate a lie engouh times, people will start to believe you.

 

[red states rule]

Hmmm... how exactly do you know that again? Oh, that's right... we have secret ballots in the U.S. You don't. But, it's an opt-repeated number that the cons like to throw out there with no POSSIBLE proof. Why, because if you propagate a lie engouh times, people will start to believe you.

Try realclearpolitics.com

The military has a history of voting Republican. That is Al Bore wanted to toss the military vote in 2000