Where FDR Went Wrong

[Unkotare]

Who wanted to keep the mosque from being built near ground zero?

Many New Yorkers from both parties (or no party).

 

[Unkotare]

Who wanted profiling of Muslims at airports?

.

Anyone with even a little common sense. If we were primarily concerned with Irish terrorists, it would make sense to 'profile' Irish people at airports. This is not complicated, and not any more or less sensible whatever party you belong to.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Who wanted to keep the mosque from being built near ground zero?

Many New Yorkers from both parties (or no party).

I'm a NYer, and a conservative, and find that we generally agree....



Just a hypothetical query.

Assuming that you and I would be incensed at some home-owner's association forbidding a home owner from raising an American flag on his property....as has been done....


...on what basis would we prevent the Mosque from being built on privately owned property....assuming it conformed to building codes?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Where FDR Went Wrong

Where FDR's parents went wrong was not strangling him in his crib. He and Woodrow Wilson were the worst Presidents in American history in terms of their lasting legacy of destruction to the liberty of future generations.

They came from rich families, what do you expect, end just think, when Wilson allowed women to vote was the decline of the USA

Hope you're doing your homework assignment.

Today....August 18th, 1920 19th Amendment, giving women right to vote, ratified.


Pssttt.....did you come across the name of U.S. Representative James R. Mann (1856-1922), a Republican from Illinois yet?

Didya?

Didya...? Huh? Huh?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Who wanted to keep the mosque from being built near ground zero?

Many New Yorkers from both parties (or no party).

Were they mostly conservatives or mostly liberals? Across the country, not just in NY.

btw, there have been efforts elsewhere, such as Tennessee, to stop mosques from being built.

Was that bigotry mostly liberal or mostly conservative?

I'll save you the song and dance, it was overwhelmingly conservative.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So Eisenhower thought Warren was a conservative, while knowing that Warren's single most significant action up that point had been his leadership in the internment movement?

But, if supporting internment was, as you insist, LIBERALISM, why didn't Eisenhower thus identify Warren as a liberal??

Here's a hint:

Being pro-internment at the time was on balance the conservative position, and the extremity of the circumstances, i.e., WORLD WAR,

cause many otherwise liberal politicians to get very conservative on that one issue.

You struggle mightily to absolve liberals, Democrats, from the guilt they so rightly deserve.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

You have admitted there can be a difference between a liberal and a Democrat.

Have you forgotten doing that already?

Can you show us how conservatism opposed the Japanese internment?

There is of course this CONSERVATIVE opinion, from one of your favorite airheads:

lol, defending internment to make the case for profiling Muslims.

In Defense of Internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And guess what, YOU won't even have the guts to say Malkin is full of crap.

too funny

So was I right? or did I miss where PC offered any criticism of her girlfriend Malkin?

 

[NYcarbineer]

FDR has been a real problem for conservatives, imagine the best president of the United States being a Democrat.

You'd have to "imagine" it because it is not true. The best president we've had was Lincoln.

That would be the same Abraham Lincoln who ordered the 'relocation' of all Dakota Sioux out of the state of Minnesota,

and incentivized that project by putting a $25 bounty on Dakota scalps??

That Lincoln?

How much did Roosevelt pay for Japanese-American scalps?

 

[PoliticalChic]

You struggle mightily to absolve liberals, Democrats, from the guilt they so rightly deserve.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

You have admitted there can be a difference between a liberal and a Democrat.

Have you forgotten doing that already?

Can you show us how conservatism opposed the Japanese internment?

There is of course this CONSERVATIVE opinion, from one of your favorite airheads:

lol, defending internment to make the case for profiling Muslims.

In Defense of Internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And guess what, YOU won't even have the guts to say Malkin is full of crap.

too funny

So was I right? or did I miss where PC offered any criticism of her girlfriend Malkin?

Right???

The last time you were right was when you ordered the Rooty Tooty Fresh ‘N Fruity breakfast at The International House of Primates!!


You're probabaly still hidin' under your bed after I smashed you with http://www.usmessageboard.com/history/308252-i-ve-been-challenged-by-fdr-groupies.html

 

[Unkotare]

Who wanted to keep the mosque from being built near ground zero?

Many New Yorkers from both parties (or no party).

I'm a NYer, and a conservative, and find that we generally agree....



Just a hypothetical query.

Assuming that you and I would be incensed at some home-owner's association forbidding a home owner from raising an American flag on his property....as has been done....


...on what basis would we prevent the Mosque from being built on privately owned property....assuming it conformed to building codes?

There would be no defensible argument aside from an appeal to thoughtfulness and decency.

 

[Unkotare]

Who wanted to keep the mosque from being built near ground zero?

Many New Yorkers from both parties (or no party).

Were they mostly conservatives or mostly liberals? Across the country, not just in NY.

Again, both.

 

[JoeB131]

Right. FDR did that to the blacks

Well whatever FDR did to the blacks it was the beginning of Blacks voting Democratic instead of Republican.

No, hon. That didn't happen until LBJ "I'll have them ******* voting Democrat for the next 200 years"

Um, no, it happened starting in 1932.

Now, it's true the GOP used to do respectably with blacks. Ike got 40% of the black vote in 1956. But he was Ike.

But they stopped being a Republican constituency after 1932.

 

[JoeB131]

How does one measure the good in life? Does good consist only in a critical opinion of the other? Or does good consist in actions that make this journey through this often described vale of tears just a little nicer and easier? I can think of few acts that compare to the good of social security and the millions whose lives are just a little easier, and a little nicer. Humankind can look to Franklin Roosevelt for that act. How many acts come close to that one great act. None I can think of. If actions don't make things just a little better, what good are actions, what good are words. Words are often so empty of meaning. Words often consist in potential, someone has to bring them to life.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/307654-where-fdr-went-wrong-7.html#post7686105

Think of the advance in science that FDR gave us by infecting blacks with syphilis and leaving it untreated so we could watch them die slow, horrible unnecessary deaths

We owe FDR something for that

Yes, if you buy the whole distorted history of the Tuskegee Study and leave out some of the following facts-

1) the study began in 1932, when Herbert Hoover was still president.
2) At the time the study started, there was no treatment for syphilis.
3) When Pennicillian was discovered to be an effective treatment for stage 1 Syphillis, it was not known in 1947 if it would be effective in treating Stage 3 Syphillis, which is what these guys had.
(Oh, at that point, FDR had been dead for two years.)

So the Tuskegee Study was all FDR's fault, except it began before he became president and a cure wasn't found (and withheld) until after he died.

But it's his fault. Really.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How does one measure the good in life? Does good consist only in a critical opinion of the other? Or does good consist in actions that make this journey through this often described vale of tears just a little nicer and easier? I can think of few acts that compare to the good of social security and the millions whose lives are just a little easier, and a little nicer. Humankind can look to Franklin Roosevelt for that act. How many acts come close to that one great act. None I can think of. If actions don't make things just a little better, what good are actions, what good are words. Words are often so empty of meaning. Words often consist in potential, someone has to bring them to life.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/307654-where-fdr-went-wrong-7.html#post7686105

Think of the advance in science that FDR gave us by infecting blacks with syphilis and leaving it untreated so we could watch them die slow, horrible unnecessary deaths

We owe FDR something for that

Yes, if you buy the whole distorted history of the Tuskegee Study and leave out some of the following facts-

1) the study began in 1932, when Herbert Hoover was still president.
2) At the time the study started, there was no treatment for syphilis.
3) When Pennicillian was discovered to be an effective treatment for stage 1 Syphillis, it was not known in 1947 if it would be effective in treating Stage 3 Syphillis, which is what these guys had.
(Oh, at that point, FDR had been dead for two years.)

So the Tuskegee Study was all FDR's fault, except it began before he became president and a cure wasn't found (and withheld) until after he died.

But it's his fault. Really.

Glad you brought up Hoover: Under Hoover, the experiment was to be limited and the patients were to be informed. FDR perverted it into a Nazi-influencing Experiment

"The Public Health Service, working with the Tuskegee Institute, began the study in 1932. Nearly 400 poor black men with syphilis from Macon County, Ala., were enrolled in the study. They were never told they had syphilis, nor were they ever treated for it. According to the Centers for Disease Control, the men were told they were being treated for "bad blood," a local term used to describe several illnesses, including syphilis, anemia and fatigue.

For participating in the study, the men were given free medical exams, free meals and free burial insurance.

At the start of the study, there was no proven treatment for syphilis. But even after penicillin became a standard cure for the disease in 1947, the medicine was withheld from the men. The Tuskegee scientists wanted to continue to study how the disease spreads and kills. The experiment lasted four decades, until public health workers leaked the story to the media."

NPR : Remembering the Tuskegee Experiment

"Under the New Deal PHS became more involved in the broader health concerns of the nation. The Social Security Act of 1935 provided PHS with the funds and the authority to build a system of state and local health departments, an activity that it had already been doing to some extent on an informal basis. Under this legislation the Service provided grants to states to stimulate the development of health services, train public health workers, and undertake research on health problems. These programs were to be aided by the Federal government but run at the state and local level, joining the various government units in a public health partnership.

These new authorities were embraced by Thomas Parran, who was appointed as PHS Surgeon General in 1936 and was of a more activist bent than his predecessor. Venereal disease was an area of particular concern to Parran, who sought to focus the battle against syphilis and gonorrhea on scientific and medical grounds, rather than emphasizing moral or ethical views concerning sex. His articles in widely read magazines and his 1937 book, Shadow on the land, were a major factor in breaking down the taboo against the discussion of the subject in the popular press. His efforts were instrumental in leading to the passage of the National Venereal Disease Control Act in 1938. This legislation provided Federal funds to the states through PHS for venereal disease control programs, as well as supporting research into the treatment and prevention of these diseases.

The Public Health Service . : The Great Pandemic : : The United States in 1918-1919 : .

Can you imagine if Prescott Bush or a Republican was in charge of this? It's only because FDR ran it and kept it hidden that it's all a blur

 

[JoeB131]

Wow, guy, so you just repeated what I said and still didn't understand it.

Bravo.

 

[JoeB131]

Well whatever FDR did to the blacks it was the beginning of Blacks voting Democratic instead of Republican.

No, hon. That didn't happen until LBJ "I'll have them ******* voting Democrat for the next 200 years"

Actually, reggie has a point.

It was the same crisis that had everyone voting FDR.....the Depression.

1. In 1932, more than two-thirds of African-Americans voted against Roosevelt. When the election of 1936 took place, 76% voted for him. Star Parker, "Uncle Sam's Plantation"

Parker has the explanation here:


2. There is the passage from Genesis 25:29-34, which accurately describes the cultural shifts that took place during the Great Depression. Read this, and replace "Jacob" with "Uncle Sam," "Esau," with "the People," and "birthright," with "freedom."

29 Once when Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau came in from the open country, famished. 30 He said to Jacob, “Quick, let me have some of that red stew! I’m famished!”




It was the perfect storm that changed America.

Star Parker is like a lot of black conservatives. The amount of self-loathing is actually sort of pathetic to behold.

ANYWAY- the reason why so many blacks switched to the Democrats was because the GOP was really doing nothing for them at that point. While Harding had his heart in the right place on race relations, Coolidge and Hoover neglected the issue, taking blacks for granted.

But as I stated earlier, Ike was able to get 40% of the black vote in 1956. They hadn't completely alienated blacks yet.

What changed was the GOP deciding that path to electoral victory lay with appealling to the people who were horrified at the notion of racial equality. Starting with Nixon's Souther Strategy, continuing on with Reagan's imaginary "Welfare Queen", and capping off with Bush-41's Willie Horton ad.

The well had been so poisoned that by 2000, Bush-43 could only rally 9% of the African American vote against Al Gore.

Now, point is, it was probably a good strategy initially. A lot of those "Reagan Democats" (who should probably more properly be called Nixon Democrats) were white folks like my parents who just didn't like what the hippies were doing to the country.

The reason it doesn't work now is because 1) Their children and grandchildren have gotten over their fears and 2) Minorities are a greater percentage of the population.

And frankly, the way the GOP has gone batshit crazy over Obama will probably make fixing the damage even harder.

 

[JoeB131]

The people who think FDR is "Great" must think that consigning 1.5 billion people to live under the horrible dehumanizing oppression of Communism is great; or, they might think that FDR is great for advancing our understanding of untreated syphllis.

Who can tell? If the Liberal collective has an answer, they ain't talking

I already did.

And you guys ignored it.

1.5 Billion people lived under communism because they were willing to give it a try.

The Communists WON in China. They won in Russia. they Won in Vietnam.

FDR wasn't really in a position to do much about it.

The real problem is that two malignant forms of totalitarism (Fascism and Communism) had a fight and Communism won.

Western Democracy was barely in the fight, really.

The USSR lost 20 million and China (Nationalists and Communists) lost 30 million.

the US lost only 450,000. The United Kingdom lost 2.5 million, but 2 million of those were people from their colonies who insisted on an end to empire as their price to fight.

So the argument isn't really, "Why did FDR not stop Communism".

That's like asking why Pee-wee Herman didn't stop Evander Hollyfeild from whomping on Mike Tyson.