Which Party is more associated with libertarians?

[kaz]

I find it interesting that almost a third of self declared libertarians say they are/were Democrat. I almost never meet anyone like that, can any of you expand on how you went from a nearly totalitarian government ideology to a minimal government one? I'm very curious. What do you think would make your friends see the light as you did?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I find it interesting that almost a third of self declared libertarians say they are/were Democrat. I almost never meet anyone like that, can any of you expand on how you went from a nearly totalitarian government ideology to a minimal government one? I'm very curious. What do you think would make your friends see the light as you did?

Well, it seems one vote in there has no basis, as freemason is obviously no libertarian.

 

[Pheonixops]

How are 'Reps' more open to Libertarians?

1) Well, if you look at the operative word "more" then clearly it's true. There is no doubt I get way further with way more Republicans than Democrats

2) What you say about Rand is true, but still, he was elected wasn't he?

3) You have to remember the party establishment isn't the same as the people. Libertarian and tea party are a lot more widely supported by the former than the latter as they are threats to the establishment.

Frankly the Republican party establishment is barely different from Democrats.

More in what way?

Yes he was on a local/state level.

I agree.

Here are some interesting links:
Libertarian Democrat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dear Libertarian Democrats... | Cato Institute
The Case for the Libertarian Democrat | Cato Unbound
LDC-Home
The Liberaltarian Democrats - NYTimes.com

 

[Pheonixops]

I find it interesting that almost a third of self declared libertarians say they are/were Democrat. I almost never meet anyone like that, can any of you expand on how you went from a nearly totalitarian government ideology to a minimal government one? I'm very curious. What do you think would make your friends see the light as you did?

I'm one of them, I was bought up to value Civil Liberties, Civil Rights, less gov. intrusion into our lives and a little distrust of the aforementioned as well (COINTELPRO etc.), Freedom, anti-discrimination in publicly run facilities, freedom of association, an intelligent and non-interventionist foreign policy while supporting a strong military to support and defend Our country and Sovereignty, etc. The person who believed in those ideals that were passed on to me, was my Father who was a Democrat. Did he like the Dixiecrats and Southern Democrats who supported Segregation? HELL NO!!!!!!! He absolutely hated them and their Conservative republican counterparts. Did he like Al and Tipper Gore and their 'moral' crusade? HELL NO!

In his time, it was the Liberals who fought and died for Civil Rights, Civil Liberties, and anti interventionist foreign policies and state supported discriminatory laws like Jim Crow. The main opponents to the above were the Dixiecrats, Southern Democrats, and conservative Republicans.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I don't get it.

mental is saying that a liber life guard will watch people die b/c they should have taken the personal responsibility to learn to swim better.


just more moronic leftist bullshit

You guys call yourselves "libers"?

Learn something new every day.

No, I call myself a con.

I call libertarians libers, since lib is taken and libertarian is to long.


did you actually think I was a liber?

 

[Two Thumbs]

I own stuff. Do I get to be a liber?

No

but you can bring back that hawt avi you once had

 

[Two Thumbs]

Reps are more open to libertarians.

I've noted that most liber nods for Pres were reps that didn't make it.

economically, cons and libers share the same ideas
Constitutionally we share most ideals
Freedoms, taxation and a few other things

and libs hate you just as much as they hate cons, so the enemy of my enemy and all that.

How are 'Reps' more open to Libertarians? How did the current crop of 'Reps' treat Ron Paul when he was running for the Nomination in the republican party?

How have the 'cons' and 'reps' enact those economic policies?
How do you guys share the same 'ideals' Constitutionaly; the PA, NDAA, etc. ?
Freedoms; like gay marriage, anti-drug war, Civil Liberties? Please show those 'Reps'! LOL

sorry, switched from talking about reps and started talking about cons

a lot of TP reps got elected that have drawn the line at increased spending
a few reps, very few, support equal marriage
and there are many other instances

sure, it's easy to go; But they don't support this!!

but since I didn't say we are all hand in glove...

 

[Two Thumbs]

Reps are more open to libertarians

I agree with you except for socons, who call me a liberal.

As for Democrats, they think we're either Republicans or anarchists. They either hit me with their Republican talking points or they argue my idea that we don't need any government doesn't make any sense. Liberals ... are morons ...

"socons"?

Libers tend to strike me as economic and Constitutional conservatives and what one would think was liberal in most other things

I tend to support liber ideals except in foreign policy. The most powerful country on earth, should help people world wide.

 

[Two Thumbs]

How are 'Reps' more open to Libertarians?

1) Well, if you look at the operative word "more" then clearly it's true. There is no doubt I get way further with way more Republicans than Democrats

2) What you say about Rand is true, but still, he was elected wasn't he?

3) You have to remember the party establishment isn't the same as the people. Libertarian and tea party are a lot more widely supported by the former than the latter as they are threats to the establishment.

Frankly the Republican party establishment is barely different from Democrats.

both parties tell us what we want to hear, then go about consolidating power for themselves

 

[Pheonixops]

Reps are more open to libertarians.

I've noted that most liber nods for Pres were reps that didn't make it.

economically, cons and libers share the same ideas
Constitutionally we share most ideals
Freedoms, taxation and a few other things

and libs hate you just as much as they hate cons, so the enemy of my enemy and all that.

How are 'Reps' more open to Libertarians? How did the current crop of 'Reps' treat Ron Paul when he was running for the Nomination in the republican party?

How have the 'cons' and 'reps' enact those economic policies?
How do you guys share the same 'ideals' Constitutionaly; the PA, NDAA, etc. ?
Freedoms; like gay marriage, anti-drug war, Civil Liberties? Please show those 'Reps'! LOL

sorry, switched from talking about reps and started talking about cons

a lot of TP reps got elected that have drawn the line at increased spending
a few reps, very few, support equal marriage
and there are many other instances

sure, it's easy to go; But they don't support this!!

but since I didn't say we are all hand in glove...

I hear you, how did they ultimately vote on spending and other issues that have effected Our civil liberties and foreign policy? Wasn't Rubio a 'Tea Party' candidate?

 

[Two Thumbs]

How are 'Reps' more open to Libertarians? How did the current crop of 'Reps' treat Ron Paul when he was running for the Nomination in the republican party?

How have the 'cons' and 'reps' enact those economic policies?
How do you guys share the same 'ideals' Constitutionaly; the PA, NDAA, etc. ?
Freedoms; like gay marriage, anti-drug war, Civil Liberties? Please show those 'Reps'! LOL

sorry, switched from talking about reps and started talking about cons

a lot of TP reps got elected that have drawn the line at increased spending
a few reps, very few, support equal marriage
and there are many other instances

sure, it's easy to go; But they don't support this!!

but since I didn't say we are all hand in glove...

I hear you, how did they ultimately vote on spending and other issues that have effected Our civil liberties and foreign policy? Wasn't Rubio a 'Tea Party' candidate?

still lack the numbers to make any real change. some turned out to be complete liars, shocking to hear, I know.

Rubio has a flaw, he's a religious righty, and that tends to fuck things up.

Increases in spending have been stopped or delayed.

sorry, I
ve got 3 shots of rum in me now, so if that didn't make a lot of sense, tough shit.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

There are many people in both parties that are Libertarians at heart, but they think that government is answer to "enforcing" liberty.

For instance, I was a Democrat, and in many ways still am, but I always supported Gay rights, Public Education (not in its current Communist form), Marijuana use, closing Gitmo (wtf happened to this Despotcrats?), pulling our armed forces out of all foreign countries [except a few overseas bases] (also wtf happened to this Despotcrats), ending the Patriot act (wtf happened Despotcrats), etc.

Many Democrats believe they can use government to LIBERAT(-arian) people, but they don't realize that removing government altogether from the process is best, except for the most BASIC anti-discrimination laws. We can derive this from Thomas Paine's Common Sense:

will point out the necessity, of establishing some form of government to supply the defect of moral virtue.

Here then is the origin and rise of government; namely, a mode rendered necessary by the inability of moral virtue to govern the world; here too is the design and end of government, viz., freedom and security. And however our eyes may be dazzled with snow, or our ears deceived by sound; however prejudice may warp our wills, or interest darken our understanding, the simple voice of nature and of reason will say, it is right.

Now if we look at the 15th Amendment (without analyzing conspiracy theories associated with it and the 13th and 14th amendments, in which I do believe in, but that's for another discussion), it fits in quite nicely with the Thomas Paine narrative:

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Notice it doesn't prefer a specific color or race, it just says, in general, "race" and "color."

This amendment makes MOST (not all) of the anti-discrimination laws unnecessary, which are designed to help specific groups. Some discrimination laws are also passed with very evil ulterior motives, for instance, violating the right to contract, or forcing private citizens and business to abide by certain behaviors and thought patterns. That's when shit gets ugly.

I would amend the 15th to include religion or, quite vaguely, any other category of distinction. Vagueness, albeit unusually, would actually work in the favor of the People instead of against them in such an Amendment.
------------------------------------------------

Anyway so what's the point of this entire post? Most Democrats are Libertarian within their souls, they just DONT KNOW they are being fooled.

The same applies to most Republicans. Again, they just DONT KNOW.

The propaganda/media/psychiatrist-complex, which was very successful during the rise of Fascism (and Communism) and instant/mass communication, discovered how to TAP into every person's "evils" and to make them vote in a way to enrich themselves and hurt others, while in the end, all we end up doing is hurting others and ourselves, without knowing it, and then we blindly blame the other side. Lakhota is prime example of this, and sadly, many many people are like this. They just don't realize they are being scammed.

 

[CrazedScotsman]

I don't know what I am though I lean to the Right

 

[Borillar]

I find it interesting that almost a third of self declared libertarians say they are/were Democrat. I almost never meet anyone like that, can any of you expand on how you went from a nearly totalitarian government ideology to a minimal government one? I'm very curious. What do you think would make your friends see the light as you did?

Well, I don't see the Democrats as being a near totalitarian ideology - that's where I place Republicans. Far too authoritarian for my taste. I'm a left leaning libertarian or maybe a libertarian leaning liberal. I want government in that I want to breathe clean air, drink clean water, eat safe foods, drive on paved roads, send my kids to public school, call the police or fire department if I have an emergency, and have a military that can defend our country. That doesn't mean I want to be micromanaged and told what I can eat, drink, smoke, or fuck. I don't want the government to read my email and listen to my phone conversations either.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I find it interesting that almost a third of self declared libertarians say they are/were Democrat. I almost never meet anyone like that, can any of you expand on how you went from a nearly totalitarian government ideology to a minimal government one? I'm very curious. What do you think would make your friends see the light as you did?

Well what happens is that converted Libertarians, from Democrats, are so ashamed to PUBLICLY admit they were once Democrats, because they realize how bad they were fooled and they know that Libertarians generally despise Democrats more, because Democrats actually admit they are Communists to everyone who actually knows what Communism is (and usually most Democrats don't know what Communism is).

What made me wake up as a Liberal?

The assault on the 2nd Amendment right after I voted for Obama last November. I've always understood the importance of the 2nd Amendment, but only being 22 years old at the time (I'm 23 now), I had never witnessed a full out assault on the 2nd Amendment by the Democratic party.

In fact there's a thread I made describing my transformation, made in February, when I even choose my name as "2ndAmendment." After I wrote this thread, I had surgery for umbilical hernia repair right on my birthday, and I read Common Sense, Federalist Papers, Anti-Federalist papers, Ratification Debates, Nullification doctrines and resolutions, etc.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ertarian-from-being-a-former-progressive.html

 

[dblack]

The Libertarian party is most closely associated with libertarians.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

a

 

[Pheonixops]

I find it interesting that almost a third of self declared libertarians say they are/were Democrat. I almost never meet anyone like that, can any of you expand on how you went from a nearly totalitarian government ideology to a minimal government one? I'm very curious. What do you think would make your friends see the light as you did?

Well what happens is that converted Libertarians, from Democrats, are so ashamed to PUBLICLY admit they were once Democrats, because they realize how bad they were fooled and they know that Libertarians generally despise Democrats more, because Democrats actually admit they are Communists to everyone who actually knows what Communism is (and usually most Democrats don't know what Communism is).

What made me wake up as a Liberal?

The assault on the 2nd Amendment right after I voted for Obama last November. I've always understood the importance of the 2nd Amendment, but only being 22 years old at the time (I'm 23 now), I had never witnessed a full out assault on the 2nd Amendment by the Democratic party.

In fact there's a thread I made describing my transformation, made in February, when I even choose my name as "2ndAmendment." After I wrote this thread, I had surgery for umbilical hernia repair right on my birthday, and I read Common Sense, Federalist Papers, Anti-Federalist papers, Ratification Debates, Nullification doctrines and resolutions, etc.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ertarian-from-being-a-former-progressive.html

Really? LOL

I find it interesting that almost a third of self declared libertarians say they are/were Democrat. I almost never meet anyone like that, can any of you expand on how you went from a nearly totalitarian government ideology to a minimal government one? I'm very curious. What do you think would make your friends see the light as you did?

I'm one of them, I was bought up to value Civil Liberties, Civil Rights, less gov. intrusion into our lives and a little distrust of the aforementioned as well (COINTELPRO etc.), Freedom, anti-discrimination in publicly run facilities, freedom of association, an intelligent and non-interventionist foreign policy while supporting a strong military to support and defend Our country and Sovereignty, etc. The person who believed in those ideals that were passed on to me, was my Father who was a Democrat. Did he like the Dixiecrats and Southern Democrats who supported Segregation? HELL NO!!!!!!! He absolutely hated them and their Conservative republican counterparts. Did he like Al and Tipper Gore and their 'moral' crusade? HELL NO!

In his time, it was the Liberals who fought and died for Civil Rights, Civil Liberties, and anti interventionist foreign policies and state supported discriminatory laws like Jim Crow. The main opponents to the above were the Dixiecrats, Southern Democrats, and conservative Republicans.

 

[Circe]

Total economic "freedom" would enslave a good many people. Feudalism was economic "freedom," and so was slavery in the Old South.

When I think of libertarianism, I think first of freedom from government intrusion in private/personal lives.

Right. Like not requiring women in a clinic to get an abortion to submit to an invasive ultrasound and have to watch the fetus on the device. That's about the rottenest law I personally can imagine, a form of emotional torture.

It's a law that says you have to do something. Libertarians are for laws that say you can't do something --- something that harms another person. And "harm" is defined narrowly: putting up a creche at Christmas or saying "Merry Christmas" is not harm.

I am opposed to homosexuality, but libertarianism says, "That's none of your business!" And that's true. I should butt out, so to speak.

 

[kaz]

The Libertarian party is most closely associated with libertarians.

There are far more libertarians in the Republican party. Which isn't hard since the Libertarian Party is 1% of the population, and most libertarians I know aren't very impressed with them.