Which should have first priority: The woman, the fertilized egg, or the fetus?

[Cecilie1200]

I guess I should apologize for not thanking you for the donation to raise my daughter when she was born.
Im sure you sent a rather substantial check.
Very rude of me.

I did not know you were an unwed pregnant mother to be. And if you were, what help did you get?

what does that have to do with anything.
if you are going to pay for one child, you should pay for all. Its only fair. Now write the check.

We all do, through our social contract. You do not get individually to decide as to who is worthy is the point. Hard for you.

where does it say that in the constitution? and were is the social contract I signed or is this something you just made up.
as far as the responsibility? how about the responsibility was not exhibited when the mother spread her legs.
and lets face it, the number of pregnancies due to faulty birth control is very very minimal, the majority are from one night stands or just plain carelessness.

Or the father unzipped his pants.

So what's the riff now? That the majority of unwanted pregnancies occur through rape?

 

[Cecilie1200]

The woman, in the vast majority of cases, can take care of herself during the pregnancy. Not true for the baby. So the "priority" is the baby. No brainer. Doesn't mean we diminish the mother...she is precious but the concern is the child...in most cases. That's true no matter what Hillary says.

That absolutely diminishes her.

Are YOU a woman?

 

[Cecilie1200]

The woman, in the vast majority of cases, can take care of herself during the pregnancy. Not true for the baby. So the "priority" is the baby. No brainer. Doesn't mean we diminish the mother...she is precious but the concern is the child...in most cases. That's true no matter what Hillary says.

That absolutely diminishes her.

Ask the normal mother who has priority.

Ask any woman.

I'm a woman. I don't consider pregnancy to diminish me at all, nor does the natural maternal instinct to protect a helpless baby.

Got something to say to THAT? Or do you know more about what women think in your efforts to pander to us than I do in actually being one?

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

This poll is unanswerable because your not clear on wether this is a life or death situation for the mother. If the mother had a medical condition of some sort, just about everyone would pick the woman in your poll

Lakhota already said "typical circumstances". Life-threatening situations are not "typical", so no sob stories to hide behind.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The argument is made that a fetus is not a human being.

I don't know at which stage of life that a fetus becomes a human being if at all.

Only a fool would argue that a fetus isn't a potential human being. I catch hell from the right to lifers, but I consider a fetus a baby when I can hear two heartbeats from a woman.

And you base that arbitrary standard on what science, exactly?

According to science, no one human being has two hearts.

Who said they did? The question was - and thank you so much for trying to dodge it - on what science do you base your arbitary opinion (as though the existence of life is a mere opinion) that "a fetus is a baby when I can hear two heartbeats"? What was the fetus before? And before you answer, please remember to show your science for THAT opinion, too.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The argument is made that a fetus is not a human being.

I don't know at which stage of life that a fetus becomes a human being if at all.

Only a fool would argue that a fetus isn't a potential human being. I catch hell from the right to lifers, but I consider a fetus a baby when I can hear two heartbeats from a woman.

And you base that arbitrary standard on what science, exactly?

According to science, no one human being has two hearts.

except for a pregnant mother, they are attached by an embillical cord, they share everything

They don't share much of anything, actually. Separate organs, separate blood type, separate DNA . . .

You clearly flunked high school health class.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

I guess I should apologize for not thanking you for the donation to raise my daughter when she was born.
Im sure you sent a rather substantial check.
Very rude of me.

I did not know you were an unwed pregnant mother to be. And if you were, what help did you get?

what does that have to do with anything.
if you are going to pay for one child, you should pay for all. Its only fair. Now write the check.

We all do, through our social contract. You do not get individually to decide as to who is worthy is the point. Hard for you.

where does it say that in the constitution? and were is the social contract I signed or is this something you just made up.
as far as the responsibility? how about the responsibility was not exhibited when the mother spread her legs.
and lets face it, the number of pregnancies due to faulty birth control is very very minimal, the majority are from one night stands or just plain carelessness.

You will have to take that up with the courts and our legislatures. Since you are neither expert nor authority on these issues, you have no right to demand anything of anybody on taking care of infants and mothers if we require birth instead of abortion. Once again your opinion is your opinion, your feelings. That means nothing in this OP.

and the same would go with your opinion. Its basically worthless on a site such as this.
So spout your murderous bullshit all you want. But its clear that you want everyone else to take care of your mistakes.

 

[MaryL]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

Philosophers have been arguing this for a millennium. Framed a little differently . Which comes first, the Woman or the Egg? Why did the woman cross the road? Deep questions I can't answer.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Without the woman, there wouldn't BE an egg or fetus.
Her body. Her choice.

No one's talking about her body. She can have an appendectomy any time she likes; I don't care. She can have a sex-change operation and it matters naught to me.

We're talking about a separate organism entirely.

well technically the baby IS part of the mothers body. AND the fathers body. If you dont believe me do a DNA test.
however the moment the baby is born, then yes it is a seperate "organism" like the rest of us

No, he isn't, not technically or in any other sense. Try to comprehend the difference between being related to someone, and being part of them. I share DNA with my brother and sister, but I can assure you I'm not part of THEM.

If you want to tell us what is "technical", Dr. Schweizer, why don't you explain the "technical" science that tells you a baby is a separate organism only from birth?

 

[Yarddog]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

This poll is unanswerable because your not clear on wether this is a life or death situation for the mother. If the mother had a medical condition of some sort, just about everyone would pick the woman in your poll

Lakhota already said "typical circumstances". Life-threatening situations are not "typical", so no sob stories to hide behind.

In this curcumstance, I'd leave it up to a woman to decide, she has to live with the consequences, however I think if its a young girl she should have the opportunity to at least talk to other women who have had abortions as well as women who have kept their babies. Its really not a light matter. it will affect the rest of their life either way.
Having said that, the aborted baby still would have been a unique one of a kind life, its not just an organism

 

[Coyote]

The woman, in the vast majority of cases, can take care of herself during the pregnancy. Not true for the baby. So the "priority" is the baby. No brainer. Doesn't mean we diminish the mother...she is precious but the concern is the child...in most cases. That's true no matter what Hillary says.

That absolutely diminishes her.

Ask the normal mother who has priority.

Ask any woman.

I did...she said the baby.

Strange.

I get different answers.

 

[Coyote]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

First priority under what circumstance? If there's a circumstance where being pregnant is putting a woman's life a risk, most people on both sides of the debate can agree the woman's life is the first priority.

In other words, you don't believe the choice is totally up to the woman?

I'd say no more than we think the "choice" to kill any other human being resides solely with the killer-to-be.

Who has the right to force a woman to house a fetus in her body against her will?

Mother Nature.

Mother Nature also tells us to kill defective offspring. Not sure she's a good authority here.

 

[Coyote]

Without the woman, there wouldn't BE an egg or fetus.
Her body. Her choice.

No one's talking about her body. She can have an appendectomy any time she likes; I don't care. She can have a sex-change operation and it matters naught to me.

We're talking about a separate organism entirely.

In that case, she has every right to evict that organism if she does not want it inside of her.

Then she probably shouldn't have created it.

If we're going to categorize human beings we consider annoying, useless parasites as "perfectly all right to kill", then you have just invalidated the entire reason YOU are still alive. Tread carefully.

She didn't choose to. Having sex doesn't equal "choosing" to have a baby.

I categorize anything that assumes tenancy in my body as remaining in my body by my choice, whatever that choice may be.

And, if my mother had made a different choice - I would neither know nor care.

 

[Coyote]

I did not know you were an unwed pregnant mother to be. And if you were, what help did you get?

what does that have to do with anything.
if you are going to pay for one child, you should pay for all. Its only fair. Now write the check.

We all do, through our social contract. You do not get individually to decide as to who is worthy is the point. Hard for you.

where does it say that in the constitution? and were is the social contract I signed or is this something you just made up.
as far as the responsibility? how about the responsibility was not exhibited when the mother spread her legs.
and lets face it, the number of pregnancies due to faulty birth control is very very minimal, the majority are from one night stands or just plain carelessness.

Or the father unzipped his pants.

So what's the riff now? That the majority of unwanted pregnancies occur through rape?

No. It's a bit more fundamental than that. It takes two to tango.

 

[Coyote]

The woman, in the vast majority of cases, can take care of herself during the pregnancy. Not true for the baby. So the "priority" is the baby. No brainer. Doesn't mean we diminish the mother...she is precious but the concern is the child...in most cases. That's true no matter what Hillary says.

That absolutely diminishes her.

Ask the normal mother who has priority.

Ask any woman.

I'm a woman. I don't consider pregnancy to diminish me at all, nor does the natural maternal instinct to protect a helpless baby.

Got something to say to THAT? Or do you know more about what women think in your efforts to pander to us than I do in actually being one?

I'm a woman. We weren't talking about "pregnancy" diminishing the mother. The comment was referring to prioritizing lives - prioritizing the fetus' life over the mothers does indeed diminish her.

 

[Coyote]

Without the woman, there wouldn't BE an egg or fetus.
Her body. Her choice.

No one's talking about her body. She can have an appendectomy any time she likes; I don't care. She can have a sex-change operation and it matters naught to me.

We're talking about a separate organism entirely.

well technically the baby IS part of the mothers body. AND the fathers body. If you dont believe me do a DNA test.
however the moment the baby is born, then yes it is a seperate "organism" like the rest of us

No, he isn't, not technically or in any other sense. Try to comprehend the difference between being related to someone, and being part of them. I share DNA with my brother and sister, but I can assure you I'm not part of THEM.

If you want to tell us what is "technical", Dr. Schweizer, why don't you explain the "technical" science that tells you a baby is a separate organism only from birth?

You are not a seperate organism until you are born. It's pretty obvious. If you were, you would not die upon being removed from your host.

 

[deltex1]

First priority under what circumstance? If there's a circumstance where being pregnant is putting a woman's life a risk, most people on both sides of the debate can agree the woman's life is the first priority.

In other words, you don't believe the choice is totally up to the woman?

I'd say no more than we think the "choice" to kill any other human being resides solely with the killer-to-be.

Who has the right to force a woman to house a fetus in her body against her will?

Mother Nature.

Mother Nature also tells us to kill defective offspring. Not sure she's a good authority here.

That's the difference between instinct and intelligence. Humans have intelligence....most anyway.

 

[chikenwing]

Without the woman, there wouldn't BE an egg or fetus.
Her body. Her choice.

No one's talking about her body. She can have an appendectomy any time she likes; I don't care. She can have a sex-change operation and it matters naught to me.

We're talking about a separate organism entirely.

well technically the baby IS part of the mothers body. AND the fathers body. If you dont believe me do a DNA test.
however the moment the baby is born, then yes it is a seperate "organism" like the rest of us

No, he isn't, not technically or in any other sense. Try to comprehend the difference between being related to someone, and being part of them. I share DNA with my brother and sister, but I can assure you I'm not part of THEM.

If you want to tell us what is "technical", Dr. Schweizer, why don't you explain the "technical" science that tells you a baby is a separate organism only from birth?

You are not a seperate organism until you are born. It's pretty obvious. If you were, you would not die upon being removed from your host.

What? Dependence dosnt qualify exsistsnce.

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

This poll is unanswerable because your not clear on wether this is a life or death situation for the mother. If the mother had a medical condition of some sort, just about everyone would pick the woman in your poll

Lakhota already said "typical circumstances". Life-threatening situations are not "typical", so no sob stories to hide behind.

In this curcumstance, I'd leave it up to a woman to decide, she has to live with the consequences, however I think if its a young girl she should have the opportunity to at least talk to other women who have had abortions as well as women who have kept their babies. Its really not a light matter. it will affect the rest of their life either way.
Having said that, the aborted baby still would have been a unique one of a kind life, its not just an organism

Yeah, um, that's what "organism" MEANS.

 

[Chuz Life]

Without the woman, there wouldn't BE an egg or fetus.
Her body. Her choice.

No one's talking about her body. She can have an appendectomy any time she likes; I don't care. She can have a sex-change operation and it matters naught to me.

We're talking about a separate organism entirely.

well technically the baby IS part of the mothers body. AND the fathers body. If you dont believe me do a DNA test.
however the moment the baby is born, then yes it is a seperate "organism" like the rest of us

Someone skipped a lot of biology classes.