While we're at it, Palestinians really did get kicked out of their homes to create Israel in 1948

[Redfish]

Yea, which is why I made the post here called "Genocide is the only way to peace" and all of the right-wingers clutched their pearls because I said what they believed but are too cowardly to own it.


Bottomline is, a majority of the so-called civilized world really really really wants Israel to finish it and exterminate all of them.....they just don't like to come out and admit it

Genocides become harder to romanticize when you have cameras.......a luxury enjoyed by the genocides of the past....

we agree, but genocide assumes that those being elimated are unable to fight back or did not start it. Whereas the muslims started it and refuse to even discuss a peaceful resolution.

 

[Deadstick]

I posted that the partition plan was voted on by the UN in 1947 and it won 33-13. That the M.E still has not made peace and come to terms with this almost 80 years later would shock the original UN supporters.

Israel is a state that is here to stay. Accept this and stop living in the past, it doesn't help anyone.

Maybe but not in the borders it has now, unless you want violence for the next hundred years.

 

[Redfish]

Maybe but not in the borders it has now, unless you want violence for the next hundred years.

how much of Israel would you give the muslims? and would they stop the violence if they got more land?

 

[surada]

1937, there was an offer of partition for two states. The Jews said yes, the Arabs said no.

The UN wanted to partition, again, in 1947 what was left of the Mandate for Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State.

The Jews said yes. The Arab leaders said no.
After that, Arabs started attacking Jews.

May 1948, after the British left the Mandate, Israel declared Independence.

The next day SEVEN Arab states attacked Israel. Israel survived.

All Jews were expelled from Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem by the Jordanian Army.


Arab leaders told the Arabs in the South to leave and they would destroy Israel and they would return in 2 weeks.


The Arabs lost.

Most Arabs moved out of their homes being told by their Arab leaders.


Those who fought the Jews and Israel were expelled from Israel.

The Arabs in the North, Haifa, etc, were asked to stay by Israel. They stayed.


Those who listened to the Arab leaders lost.

Those who listened to Israel, stayed in their homes.


That is the history of the area in 1947-48-49.

Name the seven Arab states.

The Jews bombed the oil refinery in Haifa in December 1947.

Jews were scattered throughout the Middle East, Herr Lesh. Then radical Islam kicked them out. So they marched to their ancient homeland. Do you blame them?

The Jews left Arab countries in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 because of the European Zionists.

 

[Deadstick]

how much of Israel would you give the muslims? and would they stop the violence if they got more land?

I think the 1967 borders would be a start.

 

[Lesh]

There are two realities here. Israel exists and will continue to do so.

The Palestinian people exist as well.

There needs to be a way that both can be accommodated. Frustrated oppressed people make bad decisions… like electing Hamas and lobbing missiles.

 

[Lesh]

Here are the extremists. Who in the world pays murderers of civilians a salary to their families?
Only the PA.

Keep supporting these Arab leaders as partners for peace.

Please send your donations to the PA to help all of those martyrs.
---------
The Palestinian Authority will pay nearly $3 million to the families of slain Hamas terrorists who slaughtered civilians in Gaza border communities on Oct. 7, Palestinian Media Watch reports.

The corpses of 1,500 Hamas terrorists were found after the massacre in which more than 1,400 Israelis were killed and more than 4,100 others were wounded. At least 199 captives were taken back to Gaza.


Under P.A. law, every Palestinian terrorist who is killed attacking Israelis is classified as a “martyr” and the family is rewarded with a 6,000 shekel ($1,511) grant and a monthly stipend of 1,400 shekel ($353) for life.

The Israel-based NGO and media watchdog estimates that each family will receive 7,400 shekels for the first month—11,100,000 shekels ($2,789,430) in total to the families of the Hamas terrorists killed in the attack that began on Oct. 7.

“The PA sends every month half of the [Martyrs Fund] budget for the Gaza. We see it from the budget reports. They call it ‘South Palestine,’” PMW director Itamar Marcus told JNS.

“We are used to see PA and Gaza as two different things, but they sit in the same money,” Marcus stressed.

“We know that in the past, when Israel carried out operations in Gaza, and the Hamas terrorists were killed in the airstrikes, so there was suddenly a huge amount of ‘martyrs,’ but they didn’t get the payments so there was a lot of complaints about it from Gaza,” Marcus said.

“So now according to the law the PA passed, they will pay all those retroactively, starting this month together with those who carried out the attack on October 7. We don’t know when it will be done but according to the law they will receive it starting this month,” he explained to JNS.

In addition, the 50 Hamas terrorists captured by Israel who participated in the massacre will be paid at least 70,000 shekels ($17,590) in total this month. As part of the P.A.’s “pay-for-slay” program, terrorists in Israeli prisons receive monthly stipends starting at 1,400 shekels per month that eventually increase to 12,000 shekels per month.

Terrorist prisoners who are married with children receive even higher salaries from the P.A.

In total, the P.A. will pay at least 11,170,000 shekels ($2,807,021) in payments to the families of dead Hamas terrorists and to imprisoned Hamas terrorists who participated in the Oct. 7 massacre.

Palestinian Media Watch said that this was a conservative estimate, because as the war continues Israeli forces will kill and capture more Hamas terrorists.

“The Palestinian Authority should be sending a big thank-you to the E.U. countries and Norway, currently the largest funders of the P.A., because the P.A. could not possibly make these terror payments without them,” Palestinian Media Watch stated.

“These donor countries like to pretend that it’s not their money rewarding terrorists, but everyone knows that the P.A. could not reward terrorists without this generous foreign funding. When payments to teachers, police and street cleaners are taken care of by international donors, the P.A. has the hundreds of millions available it needs to pay for terror,” the NGO said.

PA to immediately reward families of Oct. 7 terrorists with nearly $3 million - JNS.org

The "pay-for-slay" stipends will continue for the rest of their relatives' lives.

www.jns.org

Your extremism has been well noted.

It’s attitudes like that that made this mess

 

[Sixties Fan]

Your extremism has been well noted.

It’s attitudes like that that made this mess

Here is extremism:

All Arab leaders (including Abbas) agree: They'd rather see Palestinians die than do anything to save them. (It is not a new policy.)​

Times of Israel reports:

Jordanian King Abdullah II says that neither his country nor Egypt will accept Palestinian refugees, declaring it a “red line.”

At a press conference held after meeting German Chancellor Olaf Scholz in Berlin, Abdullah says that “some of the usual suspects are trying to create facts on the ground,” according to Sky News Arabia.

“There will be no refugees in Jordan and no refugees in Egypt.”

Why not, exactly?

Jordan took in 1.3 million refugees from Syria. About half are in camps and the rest live in the cities. It wasn't happy about the situation, but Abdullah certainly didn't draw a "red line" against them.

Egypt, similarly, has taken in - equally reluctantly - hundreds of thousands of refugees from Sudan, Syria, and elsewhere.
But even though both those countries accepted Syrian refugees, they didn't treat them all the same.

Jordan turned away many Syrian refugees - if they were of Palestinian origin. It didn't allow the ones who came earlier to live in the same refugee camps that they set up By policy, Palestinian Syrians were treated like garbage.
Egypt gave rights to Syrian refugees - but not if they were considered Palestinian. Palestinians who arrived via air were immediately sent back to Syria.

For decades, the Arab world pretended that they cared about Palestinians, but when it came to actual living Palestinians, they not only refused to help - they actively worked to deny them help.

They always wanted Palestinians to be cannon fodder against Israel and nothing more.
Clueless world leaders and diplomats never even commented on this official discrimination against Palestinians. The Arab leaders would say how central the Palestinian issue was to them while they mistreated the ones under their control.

Now, it is happening again, in broad daylight: Arab leaders refuse to save Palestinian lives, because they have great propaganda value when they are dead, but they are merely an expense when they are alive.
If you look at Jordan's reporting of the meeting, Abdullah adds something interesting:

His Majesty reaffirmed rejection of attempts to forcibly displace the Palestinians and cause theirinternal displacement, stressing that such attempts would plunge the region into another disaster and a new cycle of violence and destruction.

"Internal displacement" includes moving them to the West Bank.


Israel has always resisted moving Gazans to the West Bank, but I haven't seen anyone talk about this option today. Certainly there has been no word from the Palestinian Authority offering to save some Gazans for the duration of the war - even though they wouldn't become refugees, they would still be in "Palestine," and there is a lot more room in Areas A and B than in Gaza.

But here too, the example of Syria is instructive. Because Abbas had the opportunity to save some Palestinian Syrians, and he said he'd rather see them dead because Israel would ask them to renounce "return."

These examples prove as much as possible that the entire purpose of the Palestinian cause is not to help Palestinians but to use them as a weapon against Israel. They have been pawns for 75 years of the Arab leaders, including their own leaders, with no one actually caring about them even as they insisted that they were the most important issue.

The cynicism is obvious to anyone who bothers to look. But the world media and the Western world simply doesn't want to accept that Palestinians are hated so much by their own Arab brethren and by their own leaders.

If there is another explanation for why Palestinians have been singled out and treated worse than every other Arab, refugee or otherwise, by Arab leaders, I sure haven't seen it.

All Arab leaders (including Abbas) agree: They'd rather see Palestinians die than do anything to save them. (It is not a new policy.)

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[martybegan]

There are two realities here. Israel exists and will continue to do so.

The Palestinian people exist as well.

There needs to be a way that both can be accommodated. Frustrated oppressed people make bad decisions… like electing Hamas and lobbing missiles.

And if they aren't made to pay for it, they keep making those bad decisions.

They need to learn like the Germans and Japanese learned that they have lost.

 

[Sixties Fan]

There are two realities here. Israel exists and will continue to do so.

The Palestinian people exist as well.

There needs to be a way that both can be accommodated. Frustrated oppressed people make bad decisions… like electing Hamas and lobbing missiles.

Wealthy Arab leaders do not give a darn about being oppressed. They continue to have the millions and billions given to them by Israel haters and living outside of Gaza or Areas A and B.

They elected Hamas in 2007. Greatly against them now, with no weapons to fight Hamas, no bunkers to run from Hamas rockets which fall on their heads often enough as they do not reach Israel, lacking food, water, jobs (which they get from Israel, not Hamas....quite a few of them in Areas A and B now, not being able to return to Gaza because Hamas decided, not the population, to invade Israel and do what they did.


Hamas makes barbaric decisions and the poor population in Gaza pays for it.


Do not worry, there are plenty of wealthy people in Gaza and they are all ok in their bunkers, with food, water, electricity, etc, which they will never share with any of those who have had to flee to the South.

One does not accommodate murderous barbarians. One gets rid of them.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The refugees from Arab nations only happened in 1950-51.
Iraq and others decided they could destroy Israel economically if they let all Jews leave.

Gratefully they failed miserably at it.

So, Darkwind, what is your knowledge of that time in history? Tell us about it.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Jews are not attacking Muslims around the world.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Name the seven Arab states.

The Jews bombed the oil refinery in Haifa in December 1947.


The Jews left Arab countries in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 because of the European Zionists.

They left cause they were kicked out by radical Muslims. How many Jews used to live in Iran? How many now?

 

[bendog]

BTW, try to find a history of the time which is not totally biased towards the Palestinians, who by the way, did not call themselves Palestinians.

Arafat took the name after the Jews did not want it, and with the help of Moscow, created the Palestinian Nationality in 1964.


History. Very important.

It's also important to acknowledge that zionist militas did, in fact, slaughter some Palestinians. 100-200 or more. But in 47-48 both sides engaged in ethnic cleansing, or at least attempted ethnic cleansing. And the UN plan for partition was hopelessly complex with borders within borders. Neither "side" was going to live with that.

BUT, a lot of time and dead bodies passed between then and now, and nothing excuses, or is even "proportional," to what Hamas did and is still doing. Israel cannot simply arrest 1000 or so Palestinians and butcher them. Nor, can they allow Hamas to hole up in Gaza behind human shields of Palestinians and Jewish hostages. Israel traded 1000 prisoners for one IDF soldier. But the US probably killed 1000 muslims in our Drone Wars for every victim on 9-11. I'm sure Israel is capable of a similar response.

Israel's and the world's problem right now is how do they get their hostages and still kill all of Hamas or at least it's leadership (and there are multiple groups within Hamas)

 

[Sixties Fan]

It's also important to acknowledge that zionist militas did, in fact, slaughter some Palestinians. 100-200 or more. But in 47-48 both sides engaged in ethnic cleansing, or at least attempted ethnic cleansing. And the UN plan for partition was hopelessly complex with borders within borders. Neither "side" was going to live with that.

BUT, a lot of time and dead bodies passed between then and now, and nothing excuses, or is even "proportional," to what Hamas did and is still doing. Israel cannot simply arrest 1000 or so Palestinians and butcher them. Nor, can they allow Hamas to hole up in Gaza behind human shields of Palestinians and Jewish hostages. Israel traded 1000 prisoners for one IDF soldier. But the US probably killed 1000 muslims in our Drone Wars for every victim on 9-11. I'm sure Israel is capable of a similar response.

Israel's and the world's problem right now is how do they get their hostages and still kill all of Hamas or at least it's leadership (and there are multiple groups within Hamas)

What you are calling Zionist militias are Jews defending their homeland from the Arabs who did not want and would not allow any Jewish Nation to be rebuilt.

Jews did not do any ethnic cleansing. The ones Israel expelled had been fighting Jews and Israel and had to be expelled.

Look at North of Israel, in Haifa etc, where Arabs were asked to stay by Israel and they did to this day.

In 1967 no Arabs were expelled from Judea and Samaria after Israel won that war and that territory from the Jordanian decision to be involved again in that war to gain more Israeli land.

Israel will decide how it will eliminate Hamas and rescue the hostages. It will take a lot of time until then.

 

[bendog]

What you are calling Zionist militias are Jews defending their homeland from the Arabs who did not want and would not allow any Jewish Nation to be rebuilt.

Jews did not do any ethnic cleansing. The ones Israel expelled had been fighting Jews and Israel and had to be expelled.

Look at North of Israel, in Haifa etc, where Arabs were asked to stay by Israel and they did to this day.

In 1967 no Arabs were expelled from Judea and Samaria after Israel won that war and that territory from the Jordanian decision to be involved again in that war to gain more Israeli land.

Israel will decide how it will eliminate Hamas and rescue the hostages. It will take a lot of time until then.

Just stop your bs.

1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Both had blood on their hands, BUT THAT'S IRRELEVANT NOW. AT LEAST TWICE IN ISRAEL'S HISTORY THEY'VE OFFERED PEACE, AND GOTTEN NOWHERE.

And no, that's still no excuse for Bibi climbing into bed with zionist crazies who think "their God" gave them the land.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Just stop your bs.

1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Both had blood on their hands, BUT THAT'S IRRELEVANT NOW. AT LEAST TWICE IN ISRAEL'S HISTORY THEY'VE OFFERED PEACE, AND GOTTEN NOWHERE.

And no, that's still no excuse for Bibi climbing into bed with zionist crazies who think "their God" gave them the land.

Your ignorance of facts is getting you down.
Learn about who the aggressors were from 1920 until today.

I am not interested in links to the history I know beyond well. I have quite a few threads on the history of the area. Look them up, read about Islam and how many extremists refuse for Israel to exist.

The death of 6 Million Jews in WWII did not just happen. It was helped by the extremist Arab leader in the Mandate for Palestine.


Good reading.

 

[Magnus]

You do not like history and the why of things, that is your problem.

Want to teach me what the causes are of the conflict? What a joke?

Nah, don't want to "teach" you anything. I present facts. What you do with them is your problem.

 

[Magnus]

I DO understand much of this issue.

And I find the Israeli government in general and the Zionist movement in particular at fault.

Had settlements been halted and removed from both Gaza and the West Bank the Israeli government would have held the moral high ground. That doesn’t mean that peace would have been guaranteed or easy, but at least it would have been possible

They have not done so.

Now?

Who knows

That is the problem with fanatics. On both sides. Only their way is right and the rest be damned.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Nah, don't want to "teach" you anything. I present facts. What you do with them is your problem.

And what exactly is written in this article

Most Read of 2021: “Israel” and “Palestine”: Where Should History Begin, and Should it Matter? - Australian Institute of International Affairs

The geographic terms “Israel” and “Palestine” have a long history and specific connotations for Jews and Arabs with respect to their competing claims to the same land. The only way forward for Jewish Israelis and Palestinian Arabs is to cease looking backwards.

www.internationalaffairs.org.au

tells you that you correct. and factual? Let me know which paragraphs, etc.