White man shoots innocent black teen....

[The Gadfly]

For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.

I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?

Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.

More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?

The case was a complete misscarriage from start to finish.

Which brings up another question, could this have been a cover-up on the part of the local police department?

Because I think it's pretty obvious that somebody dropped the ball on some things, even lied to the family by teling them he had a "clean record". So was the ball dropped clumsily... or on purpose?

That's a fair question, or appears to be, from what we know right now. The accounting of the facts the local police should reasonably have in their possession is quite incomplete; so either (a) they do not possess those facts, or (b) they are not releasing those facts, for reasons unknown. Now whether that is due to an inept investigation, or something more, we can't tell, and we won't know, until more complete investigation by the State Attorney's office and the FDLE is finished.. The problem is, everyone is trying to draw conclusions in a situation in which we have a hell of a lot more questions than factual answers.

 

[bayoubill]

For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.

I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?

Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.

More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?

The case was a complete misscarriage from start to finish.

ummm... it ain't nearly finished yet...

and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's somehow used to try to influence the presidential election eight months from now...

 

[The Gadfly]

Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.

Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it. If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.

Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.

For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.

I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?

Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.

More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?

Peach, we don't know why, from anything I'm aware of. They may have offered, he may just as easily have declined; I can tell you that I have, as an EMT/Paramedic, had patients with pretty significant injuries decline treatment and/or transportation; they do have that right (unless the police take them into custody, i.e. formally arrest them).

 

[uptownlivin90]

More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?

The case was a complete misscarriage from start to finish.

ummm... it ain't nearly finished yet...

and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's somehow used to try to influence the presidential election eight months from now...

First, nobody will remember it. I've tracked cases like this for years. They have a two to three month life span IF THAT.

Second, what does the president have to do with this besides his skin tone? Don't worry... I'll wait...

 

[PredFan]

Living in Orlando, I have been aware of this story ever since it happened. Apparently the court of public opinion has already found him guilty. I love how people are calling for this guy's arrest as if we live in a country that arrests people first and later charges them with a crime.

Having heard everything from day one, here's my take:

The shooter erred in pursuing the victim when he was told not to (not a crime). The shooter claims self-defense because he was attacked by the victim. There is at this time no reason for an arrest, but there needs to be an investigation. Too bad very few people will wait for the courts to decide.

 

[Peach]

For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.

I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?

Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.

More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?

Peach, we don't know why, from anything I'm aware of. They may have offered, he may just as easily have declined; I can tell you that I have, as an EMT/Paramedic, had patients with pretty significant injuries decline treatment and/or transportation; they do have that right (unless the police take them into custody, i.e. formally arrest them).

I was in a car accident once and forced to go the hospital, or so it seems. All that can be asked for in this case is a genuine investigation. "He's injured, self defense", doesn't meet that goal.

 

[Emma]

More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?

Head injuries are a serious matter, ya know.

 

[Emma]

I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...

if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?

and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?

there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...

and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...

True. If you were the guy on the left, how would you feel about the guy on the right scoping you out, then leaving his car to follow you (and if the girl's story is true, chasing you), in the dark ...

I wonder too if zimmerman's gun was visible to Martin?

 

[uptownlivin90]

Living in Orlando, I have been aware of this story ever since it happened. Apparently the court of public opinion has already found him guilty. I love how people are calling for this guy's arrest as if we live in a country that arrests people first and later charges them with a crime.

Having heard everything from day one, here's my take:

The shooter erred in pursuing the victim when he was told not to (not a crime). The shooter claims self-defense because he was attacked by the victim. There is at this time no reason for an arrest, but there needs to be an investigation. Too bad very few people will wait for the courts to decide.

Harassment is a crime.

 

[Peach]

I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...

if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?

and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?

there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...

and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...

True, Bundy comes to mind as a sick, heinous killer that could appear "nice".

 

[bayoubill]

The case was a complete misscarriage from start to finish.

ummm... it ain't nearly finished yet...

and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's somehow used to try to influence the presidential election eight months from now...

First, nobody will remember it. I've tracked cases like this for years. They have a two to three month life span IF THAT.

Second, what does the president have to do with this besides his skin tone? Don't worry... I'll wait...

first, the issue might well have "legs"... depends on how long the MSM decides to push the story...

second, the issue has nothing to do with the president... but the MSM, as well as other players, may decide to push it as though it does...

 

[bayoubill]

I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...

if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?

and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?

there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...

and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...

True. If you were the guy on the left, how would you feel about the guy on the right scoping you out, then leaving his car to follow you (and if the girl's story is true, chasing you), in the dark ...

I wonder too if zimmerman's gun was visible to Martin?

I 'spect Zimmerman didn't brandish the gun at first (but was nonetheless emboldened to challenge Martin because he had the gun)... and pulled the gun out only when he felt threatened by Martin's refusal to back down...

 

[PredFan]

Living in Orlando, I have been aware of this story ever since it happened. Apparently the court of public opinion has already found him guilty. I love how people are calling for this guy's arrest as if we live in a country that arrests people first and later charges them with a crime.

Having heard everything from day one, here's my take:

The shooter erred in pursuing the victim when he was told not to (not a crime). The shooter claims self-defense because he was attacked by the victim. There is at this time no reason for an arrest, but there needs to be an investigation. Too bad very few people will wait for the courts to decide.

Harassment is a crime.

Following someone is not a crime.

 

[High_Gravity]

Living in Orlando, I have been aware of this story ever since it happened. Apparently the court of public opinion has already found him guilty. I love how people are calling for this guy's arrest as if we live in a country that arrests people first and later charges them with a crime.

Having heard everything from day one, here's my take:

The shooter erred in pursuing the victim when he was told not to (not a crime). The shooter claims self-defense because he was attacked by the victim. There is at this time no reason for an arrest, but there needs to be an investigation. Too bad very few people will wait for the courts to decide.

Harassment is a crime.

Following someone is not a crime.

Its not?

 

[manifold]

Harassment is a crime.

Following someone is not a crime.

Its not?

If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost. I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.

 

[Amelia]

Like I said in another thread, I bet that if Zimmerman gets out of this a free man he will move to some state where what he did in Florida would not legal for someone to do to him.

Otherwise he'll be looking over his shoulder all the time for someone who sees him as a threat - because a large portion of the state of Florida will legally and defensibly see him as a threat.

 

[Peach]

I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...

if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?

and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?

there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...

and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...

True. If you were the guy on the left, how would you feel about the guy on the right scoping you out, then leaving his car to follow you (and if the girl's story is true, chasing you), in the dark ...

I wonder too if zimmerman's gun was visible to Martin?

I 'spect Zimmerman didn't brandish the gun at first (but was nonetheless emboldened to challenge Martin because he had the gun)... and pulled the gun out only when he felt threatened by Martin's refusal to back down...

Or answer his questions perhaps?

 

[High_Gravity]

Following someone is not a crime.

Its not?

If I see someone suspicious looking walking (or driving) around my neighborhood I'll follow him around until he leaves. And given the opportunity, I'll ask him if he's lost. I'm pretty sure there is no law against that.

Isn't that harassment or stalking from the other persons point of view?

 

[Peach]

I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...

if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?

and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?

there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...

and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...

True. If you were the guy on the left, how would you feel about the guy on the right scoping you out, then leaving his car to follow you (and if the girl's story is true, chasing you), in the dark ...

I wonder too if zimmerman's gun was visible to Martin?

I 'spect Zimmerman didn't brandish the gun at first (but was nonetheless emboldened to challenge Martin because he had the gun)... and pulled the gun out only when he felt threatened by Martin's refusal to back down...

Zimmerman has MILLIONS of defenders I gather. I wish the teenager had had just one......................................

 

[PredFan]

Harassment is a crime.

Following someone is not a crime.

Its not?

What I think of your avie MIGHT be a crime....in some states.