White man shoots innocent black teen....

[uptownlivin90]

Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.

Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it. If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.

Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.

For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.

I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?

Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.

 

[High_Gravity]

The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home. From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.

Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.

I get what you are saying, my mother is white and I dont care about what race the kid was, what happened was tragic and he was unarmed, this really should not have happened. I think Zimmerman should be prosecuted for this but I don't think the Black Liberation Army should take justice in their own hands either. Just for me when I look at the kids face he reminds me of a family member like I said, so I am trying not to get too emotional in this case.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.

I get what you are saying, my mother is white and I dont care about what race the kid was, what happened was tragic and he was unarmed, this really should not have happened. I think Zimmerman should be prosecuted for this but I don't think the Black Liberation Army should take justice in their own hands either. Just for me when I look at the kids face he reminds me of a family member like I said, so I am trying not to get too emotional in this case.

LOL, does the BLA still exist or did they do like the Black Panther Party and try to revive it?

 

[High_Gravity]

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.

I get what you are saying, my mother is white and I dont care about what race the kid was, what happened was tragic and he was unarmed, this really should not have happened. I think Zimmerman should be prosecuted for this but I don't think the Black Liberation Army should take justice in their own hands either. Just for me when I look at the kids face he reminds me of a family member like I said, so I am trying not to get too emotional in this case.

LOL, does the BLA still exist or did they do like the Black Panther Party and try to revive it?

From what I understand this is a newer group, not the original Black Liberation Army.

 

[Sallow]

The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home. From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.

Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.

The "media firestorm" happened after the police let Zimmerman go without testing him for drugs or alcohol or charging him with anything. Then the police told the Martin family that Zimmerman "had a clean" record so they basically thought it was "self defense". Charlie Manson would have loved these cops.

 

[uptownlivin90]

I get what you are saying, my mother is white and I dont care about what race the kid was, what happened was tragic and he was unarmed, this really should not have happened. I think Zimmerman should be prosecuted for this but I don't think the Black Liberation Army should take justice in their own hands either. Just for me when I look at the kids face he reminds me of a family member like I said, so I am trying not to get too emotional in this case.

LOL, does the BLA still exist or did they do like the Black Panther Party and try to revive it?

From what I understand this is a newer group, not the original Black Liberation Army.

Proof that high unemployment breeds boredom which can be dangerous.

 

[High_Gravity]

Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.

The "media firestorm" happened after the police let Zimmerman go without testing him for drugs or alcohol or charging him with anything. Then the police told the Martin family that Zimmerman "had a clean" record so they basically thought it was "self defense". Charlie Manson would have loved these cops.

I can't believe he was let go just like that, I thought you were at least held in custody for a while if you shoot some one.

 

[High_Gravity]

LOL, does the BLA still exist or did they do like the Black Panther Party and try to revive it?

From what I understand this is a newer group, not the original Black Liberation Army.

Proof that high unemployment breeds boredom which can be dangerous.

You got a point there.

 

[52ndStreet]

The case shook me up a bit. Not because I'm all that surprised, sad to say it. Moreso though because Trayvon looks a lot like a close relative of mine. Hit home. From what I heard he was a good kid and had a stable home. The Zimmerman guy had been in trouble with the Law before and had a drinking problem. My guess is he wasn't too bright of a person and that that night he wanted a chance to be a hero. This will probably turn into a miscarriage of justice almost for sure. I think there is a possibility that there is a racial element to it, but I think the bigger picture here is the "look-out-for-one-another" attitude some law enforcement officers have and the fact that no matter how meaningless the officer's job some people just shouldn't ever be allowed within 500 feet of a badge with their name on it.

Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.

Who are you to say not to pre judge this case, when you have already presumed that
Trevon Martin may have been acting aggressive, or posturing with this Zimmerman wanna be cop, loose cannon character.

You have already put fault on the deceased. The victim did not have a gun or any other weapon. Why is this Zimmerman claiming self defense against a person with no real weapon, while he Zimmerman is armed with a 9mm semi automatic pistol.?!

If he felt unsafe, he should have pulled the gun on the Martin , and waited till the police
got there.

 

[The Gadfly]

Not necessarily, HG; all depends on the jurisdiction and the circumstances. Here for instance, if you shoot an intruder in your home, there is almost never an arrest. IN other cases that appear to be clear-cut self-defense, there may or may not be, although, it's usually perfunctory; any decision on charges is made later in such a case.. In this instance, since we haven't heard all the evidence the police gathered at the scene, it's hard to know why they did not arrest Zimmerman; but even then, it would be up to the local DA, solicitor, or prosecutor( not sure what title FL uses) to decide on charges, if any, once the investigation is concluded. As for the subject's prior arrest, my understanding is those charges were dropped, which of course, makes his record clean, from a legal standpoint-no trial, no conviction, no guilty or NC plea equals clean record.

I've listened to the tapes again, and while Zimmerman doesn't pronounce some word clearly, I can't say he sounds drunk, especially if (as I believe someone stated)English is not his first language. Anyone know if they gave him a field sobriety check and/or breath test on the scene? I don't.

Completely understand the emotions, if Martin looks like a family member of yours -any of us would identify with him emotionally in such an instance, so I do understand that's got to be difficult for you. Hopefully we'll have much more information when the investigation is finished, maybe that will help clarify things; I want the truth too, or at least as much of it as can be determined. Let's hope all available physical evidence from the scene was collected, at least.. Meanwhile, I don't see enough at this point from which to draw any hard conclusions.

 

[Peach]

Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.

Who are you to say not to pre judge this case, when you have already presumed that
Trevon Martin may have been acting aggressive, or posturing with this Zimmerman wanna be cop, loose cannon character.

You have already put fault on the deceased. The victim did not have a gun or any other weapon. Why is this Zimmerman claiming self defense against a person with no real weapon, while he Zimmerman is armed with a 9mm semi automatic pistol.?!

If he felt unsafe, he should have pulled the gun on the Martin , and waited till the police
got there.

Agreed, but, he took the law into his own shaky hands.

 

[Amelia]

You are free to insist that Zimmerman qualifies as a white man and I'll continue to insist that by any reasonable person standard, he does not.

And if that's the case we're at an impasse and we'll have to agree to disagree. But just know that I think less of you intellectually if that's the case.

Dude, think whatever you want.

You know Argentines are hispanic right? And most of them are migrants from Southern Europe with little mix of Amerindian blood at all.

But they cant be white because they speak Spanish?

What is it about speaking Spanish that makes a person nonwhite?

In most Catholic American cultures racial thinking never got quite the hold that it did in the Northern European cultures.

What is white and what is not white has been very morphic over the centuries.

You know Ben Franklin, for example, thought that Germans were not white?

I really dont care who is white, but my federal government does since it divides the American people by race.

I'm not going to dispute any of that.

But honestly, when you look at Zimmerman do you see a white guy?

I did. When I was told I was supposed to see some other ethnicity I looked harder I said, "um, okay, I can see that".

 

[bayoubill]

Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.

Who are you to say not to pre judge this case, when you have already presumed that
Trevon Martin may have been acting aggressive, or posturing with this Zimmerman wanna be cop, loose cannon character.

You have already put fault on the deceased. The victim did not have a gun or any other weapon. Why is this Zimmerman claiming self defense against a person with no real weapon, while he Zimmerman is armed with a 9mm semi automatic pistol.?!

If he felt unsafe, he should have pulled the gun on the Martin , and waited till the police
got there.

go back and re-read Gadfly's post, 52... carefully this time...

he's not making any presumptions or accusations... he's merely suggesting some "what might have actually happened" scenarios in this tragic occurrance...

 

[uptownlivin90]

Dude, think whatever you want.

You know Argentines are hispanic right? And most of them are migrants from Southern Europe with little mix of Amerindian blood at all.

But they cant be white because they speak Spanish?

What is it about speaking Spanish that makes a person nonwhite?

In most Catholic American cultures racial thinking never got quite the hold that it did in the Northern European cultures.

What is white and what is not white has been very morphic over the centuries.

You know Ben Franklin, for example, thought that Germans were not white?

I really dont care who is white, but my federal government does since it divides the American people by race.

I'm not going to dispute any of that.

But honestly, when you look at Zimmerman do you see a white guy?

I did. When I was told I was supposed to see some other ethnicity I looked harder I said, "um, okay, I can see that".

I thought he was white as well. That's besides the point though... white, black, orange, or green, he's an idiot as far as I'm concerned, and quite possibly a murderer.

 

[Ravi]

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.

Who are you to say not to pre judge this case, when you have already presumed that
Trevon Martin may have been acting aggressive, or posturing with this Zimmerman wanna be cop, loose cannon character.

You have already put fault on the deceased. The victim did not have a gun or any other weapon. Why is this Zimmerman claiming self defense against a person with no real weapon, while he Zimmerman is armed with a 9mm semi automatic pistol.?!

If he felt unsafe, he should have pulled the gun on the Martin , and waited till the police
got there.

go back and re-read Gadfly's post, 52... carefully this time...

he's not making any presumptions or accusations... he's merely suggesting some "what might have actually happened" scenarios in this tragic occurrance...

There's really no need to read it. Gagfly laid blame on "youth these days" and 50 cent made a good point.

 

[Peach]

Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.

Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it. If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.

Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.

For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.

I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?

Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.

More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?

 

[uptownlivin90]

Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.

Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it. If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.

Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.

For the record, there are Hispanics that can't stand black people and can't stand white people for that matter, and vice versa.

I'm not screaming "RACE! RACE! RACE!" with this case either, but this was clearly foul play. Sorry, I'm fully second amendment, fully self-defense, I don't question the laws in the state of Florida. I question the stupidity of this one officer who decided to take justice in his own hands and chase down this "suspicious" kid, when he was instructed not to go near him harass then shoot him. Clearly the guy wasn't allowed to become a real police officer for a reason. Could it be because he has a different way of determining what is "suspicious" and what is not?

Race makes this whole thing sound incredibly stupid and one sided. The point is not one of you would want your child who you know is not a criminal and who you've done everything to ensure was raised in a stable home to leave the safety of your home to go to the store and come back in a body bag. If it happened, you'd be demanding answers yourself. You can't say for one second that you'd accept the story "he looked suspicious so I shot him", it even sounds ridiculous. But the racial element of this MAKES people defensive. Because this was a black child, there are certain members of society that just won't except that he MAY HAVE been an innocent victim. That HE MAY just wanted to go buy his brother some skittles to watch the All-Star Game with. But it's going to be viewed as some attack on the gun rights or white people. No this isn't about black and white, this is about an unarmed child returning to his father lifeless. I think we ALL deserve answers as to why this happened.

More than just "self defense"; as for the killer's injuries, why didn't police transport HIM to a hospital if he was injured?

The case was a complete misscarriage from start to finish.

Which brings up another question, could this have been a cover-up on the part of the local police department?

Because I think it's pretty obvious that somebody dropped the ball on some things, even lied to the family by teling them he had a "clean record". So was the ball dropped clumsily... or on purpose?

 

[The Gadfly]

Same with me, he looks like a family member of mine too, which is why it hurts to look at this case.

HG,, let's be clear, there is NOTHING good about the fact that an unarmed kid died in this incident. That's unfortunate,: it's downright tragic- and that would be the case, no matter whether it was a Black kid, a White kid, an Asian kid, an Hispanic kid, or any kid. However, from the facts we have at present, we do not know whether this tragedy was the result of a criminal act by another, or whether the the deceased made a poor choice that or choices that contributed to his own death, or perhaps directly caused it.

What we do know is that among modern youth, especially young men of that age, there is an attitude that is quite prevalent, and cuts across all racial and ethnic lines. It's an attitude of posturing, of exaggerated confidence and machismo that is often aggressive and belligerent, a need to "act tough" and be intimidating, and there is plenty in the popular youth culture today that encourages it. Even a lot of kids we think of as otherwise "good kids" have that attitude. Most of the time, it's harmless, or at worst, slightly irritating; just adolescent posturing, or an exaggerated response to any feeling of being "dissed". Put it in the wrong situation, on a dark street at night and it can lead to poor judgement and poor choices that can have serious, even lethal consequences.

Is it possible that Treyvon Martin, feeling put upon and "dissed" by an adult following and observing him, reacted violently, and attacked the man? Could he have decided to show how "tough" he was, by attacking a man who had lost sight of him? Could he have decided, in a moment of adolescent resentment and anger, to "just show him" or "teach him a lesson", and continued to attack a man he did not realized was armed? Could he have chosen confrontation, instead of just walking, or even running, the remaining short distance to his destination, less than seventy yards away? We don't know; but we do know that kids like him, of all races and backgrounds, make that kind of choice every day. Some of them get away with it; some wind up charged with assault or worse, and some attack the wrong person, and get hurt or even killed-an awfully steep price, for a moment of teen male bravado; but it's common enough for us to ask (though not assume) IF that happened here. Is this an unlawful killing, or the result of misperceptions and poor choices by one or BOTH parties that escalated into a self-defense situation that ended tragically?
It could be either, though it appears the local police don't think so.The above is speculation, to be sure; but no more so than all the other speculation that's been indulged in, here, in the media, and in the community.

We don't have enough facts to know, and the police may or may not; but until law enforcement can get to the bottom of it, and ascertain ALL of the relevant facts as best those can be determined, I think we should withhold our judgement, and not jump to emotional conclusions based on fragmentary evidence and speculation. We may never find the whole truth of what happened that night, but we can hope that we will eventually learn considerably more of the truth than we have now.

Now, for the resident lynch mob, I note that the media firestorm has already led to death threats against both the shooter's family, and and his father's family. That's uncalled for. We did away with lynch mobs in our country for a damn good reason- what they dispense isn't justice; wasn't back then, isn't now, and never will be. The people trying to whip up a mob in the streets now, should ask themselves what kind of justice it would be, if someone were to murder Zimmerman or his family, only to have the investigation determine that he committed no crime. Those of you who have implied that is some kind of good idea (you know who you are), need to think about that, long and hard. Another man dead for nothing but a misguided thirst for vengeance, and Treyvon Martin still just as dead. You who would compound that tragedy with yet another, are blinded by your hate-and that's just wrong.

Who are you to say not to pre judge this case, when you have already presumed that
Trevon Martin may have been acting aggressive, or posturing with this Zimmerman wanna be cop, loose cannon character.

You have already put fault on the deceased. The victim did not have a gun or any other weapon. Why is this Zimmerman claiming self defense against a person with no real weapon, while he Zimmerman is armed with a 9mm semi automatic pistol.?!

If he felt unsafe, he should have pulled the gun on the Martin , and waited till the police
got there.

I didn't PRESUME anything, 52nd; I speculated, as others have done here, on what may have happened; the difference was, I clearly labeled those ideas as "SPECULATION", NOT as facts, and merely suggested that if we were going to speculate in the absence of evidence, that was a possibility we should consider (but specifically NOT ASSUME !). Once again, what's the point in having a judicial process, if we are either going to not use it, or try to short-circuit it when it moves to slow for our liking.

I repeat, I WANT THE TRUTH TOO, but I want it as evidenced by facts, not innuendo, supposition conjecture, or emotionalism; if there is in fact a case to be made and tried, I want it tried in a court of law, where it belongs. THis case may be anything from legal self-defense to negligent homicide, to voluntary manslaughter. There is not one of us here who can say with certainty which it is, based on the facts released so far. The deceased may have been guilty of anything from absolutely nothing, to aggravated battery; we don't know that either..

 

[bayoubill]

I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...

if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...?

and how fair do you think that is, to prejudge based solely on appearances...?

there's been mass murderers who looked as charming as the guy on the left...

and heroes who looked as unsightly as the guy on the right...

 

[High_Gravity]

I've got a feeling that, underlying the rush to judge Zimmerman, there's somewhat of a bias against unsightly-looking people...

if you'd never seen these photos before, which of these two people would you guess was the guilty party for any alleged offense, based solely on appearance...? and how fair do you think that is...?

Well judging from the pics no white men were involved.