White man shoots innocent black teen....

[Barb]

hysterical rantings deleted. children may be watching.

now, if a crime has been committed it will all come out in the wash. this isn't about black kids everywhere,

this happened in a racially mixed gated community and the police were not involved in a shooting.

The police were not involved in an investigation INTO the shooting, either.

THAT's the point.

see? more bullshit. The investigation on scene said, no crime. You are lying. You just don't like the outcome. You hate Justice.

The police decided not to arrest. They could find no evidence a crime had been committed.

The dead body with a bullet wound, in the street, not the man's home, and not even his property. But no evidence of a crime.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The dead body with a bullet wound, in the street, not the man's home, and not even his property. But no evidence of a crime.

In a case of self defense with nothing to contradict the story? yep, no crime.

If you think there was evidence of a crime when the police arrived, name the crime.

and this would mean if you name a crime that the police are covering up? It's possible, but why? Not probable, but possible. name the crime

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"Critics say Trayvon, who was visiting family from his home in Miami, was a victim of racial profiling." - George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

but the man is not reported to have been a racist -- before Al Sharpton and the Lynch Mob showed up

 

[MikeK]

According to liberals, no, a minority cannot be a racist.

Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher. Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening. Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened. There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense. It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.

You present a perfect argument except for the glaring flaw (bold & underlined). What crime was happening? What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful? Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause. My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.

I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law. But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

What crime was happening? What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful? Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause. My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.

I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law. But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?

Who said there was evidence of an aggressive confrontation on the part of Zimmerman? When the police arrived there was no evidence to support this theory. Who saw Zimmerman confront the young man?

We do know the young man confronted Zimmerman and initiated a verbal confrontation According to the victim's own girlfriend who was on the phone with him, the victim started a verbal confrontation: young man: "why you following me?" - Hispanic man: "what are you doing around here?" - a
struggle ensues on girlfriend's call and call ends with NO shot heard.

 

[Barb]

The dead body with a bullet wound, in the street, not the man's home, and not even his property. But no evidence of a crime.

In a case of self defense with nothing to contradict the story? yep, no crime.

If you think there was evidence of a crime when the police arrived, name the crime.

and this would mean if you name a crime that the police are covering up? It's possible, but why? Not probable, but possible. name the crime

murder.
the 911 calls with the kids voice screaming for help. The 911 call with the man telling the police he was following him. The kid is un armed, the man is not. You really think that whack job shouldn't have been brought in while an investigation was conducted? really?

And not probable? A gated community in Florida and a black teenager dead.
Again, really?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The dead body with a bullet wound, in the street, not the man's home, and not even his property. But no evidence of a crime.

In a case of self defense with nothing to contradict the story? yep, no crime.

If you think there was evidence of a crime when the police arrived, name the crime.

and this would mean if you name a crime that the police are covering up? It's possible, but why? Not probable, but possible. name the crime

murder.
the 911 calls with the kids voice screaming for help. The 911 call with the man telling the police he was following him. The kid is un armed, the man is not. You really think that whack job shouldn't have been brought in while an investigation was conducted? really?

And not probable? A gated community in Florida and a black teenager dead.
Again, really?

A racially mixed gated community. Why do you like Ravi - keep implying gated communities are white havens only?

and murder? The man was not hiding the fact he followed what he considered suspicious activity. no crime. the man was on the phone with police and said he would follow. police said please don't. he did anyway. no crime.

later from girlfriend we find out after man follows, young man initiates a verbal confrontation. no crime

police get there after shooting and man with legal permit/license who has followed people numerous times and never shot anybody, says he fought for his life and shot suspicious young man. what crime?

where is even the suspicion of a crime in that story that would warrant an arrest? I would not want to be arrested on such flimsy information

 

[Barb]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html

“These a--holes always get away,” Zimmerman complained.
What happened next is unclear, and has already reverberated nationwide. Calls to 911 alerted police to a scuffle and someone crying for help. In one, the chilling howl stopped after the clear, crisp blast of a bullet. Trayvon was lying face down on the ground near a pathway that runs through the townhouse community.
One 911 caller sobbed to the dispatcher over not having helped the young man who wailed.
Zimmerman told police that was him crying for help and that Trayvon started the fight. He claimed self-defense and was not charged, flaring deep-seated racial tensions between blacks and police, who have a long history of distrust. On at least two prior occasions, the Sanford Police Department was accused of giving favorable treatment to relatives of officers involved in violent encounters with blacks.
In 2010, police waited seven weeks to arrest a lieutenant’s son who was caught on video sucker-punching a homeless black man.
In 2005, two security guards — one the son of a longtime Sanford police officer and the other a department volunteer — killed a black man they said was trying to run them over. Black leaders complained of a lackluster investigation. The guards ultimately were acquitted.

Read more here: Shooter of Trayvon Martin a habitual caller to cops - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

This was not self-defense,” Cutcher said. “We heard no fighting, no wrestling, no punching. We heard a boy crying. As soon as the shot went off, it stopped, which tells me it was the child crying. If it had been Zimmerman crying, it wouldn’t have stopped. If you’re hurting, you’re hurting.”
She and her friend say they heard the sounds from a few steps away, where they were inside beside an open window. Seconds later, they dashed out to find a boy face down on the ground and a man standing over him, a foot on each side of the body on the ground, with his hands pinning the shooting victim down.

Read more here: Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

“I know what I heard. I heard a cry and a shot,” Mora said. “If there was a fight, it did not happen here where the boy was shot. I would have heard it, as this all happened right outside my open window.”

Read more here: Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

Cutcher was one of eight or nine 911 callers that night but she said investigators dismissed her, and a detective failed to follow up with her. Both women said police seemed very blasé.

Read more here: Witnesses in Trayvon Martin death heard cries before shot - Miami-Dade - MiamiHerald.com

 

[Barb]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/opinion/blow-the-curious-case-of-trayvon-martin.html?_r=1

As the father of two black teenage boys, this case hits close to home. This is the fear that seizes me whenever my boys are out in the world: that a man with a gun and an itchy finger will find them “suspicious.” That passions may run hot and blood run cold. That it might all end with a hole in their chest and hole in my heart. That the law might prove insufficient to salve my loss.

That is the burden of black boys in America and the people that love them: running the risk of being descended upon in the dark and caught in the cross-hairs of someone who crosses the line.

According to Crump, the father was told that one of the reasons Zimmerman wasn’t arrested was because he had a “squeaky clean” record. It wasn’t. According to the local news station WFTV, Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for “battery on a law enforcement officer.”

Furthermore, ABC News reported on Tuesday that one of the responding officers “corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.” And The Miami Herald published an article on Thursday that said three witnesses had heard the “desperate wail of a child, a gunshot, and then silence.”

WFTV also reported this week that the officer in charge of the scene when Trayvon was shot was also in charge of another controversial case. In 2010, a lieutenant’s son was videotaped attacking a black homeless man. The officer’s son also was not initially arrested in that case. He was later arrested when the television station broke the news.

 

[Barb]

Trayvon Martin Family Seeks FBI Investigation of Killing - ABC News

But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.

"When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.

But Zimmerman was not tested.

 

[Ravi]

Uh, no. One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force. Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.

in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.

Lawyer: Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim - CNN.com

Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley, who was the prime House sponsor of the deadly force legislation, told CNN Tuesday that "nothing in 'stand your ground' authorizes (you) to pursue and confront."

Not for nothing, an unarmed teenager has more reason to feel threatened than the "grown up" following him around the neighborhood with a gun.

I'm glad to read that. Maybe there is hope for Florida after all.

 

[Ravi]

[ an honest review and investigation,

guy follows a kid. kid confronts the guy starting a verbal confrontation. a physical fight ensues. kid ends up shot and dies.

motives? died with kid.

end of tragic story

How droll that you've put all the blame on the kid for "confronting" his stalker by asking why are you following me.

Do you troll your neighborhood with candy?

 

[Ravi]

In a case of self defense with nothing to contradict the story? yep, no crime.

If you think there was evidence of a crime when the police arrived, name the crime.

and this would mean if you name a crime that the police are covering up? It's possible, but why? Not probable, but possible. name the crime

murder.
the 911 calls with the kids voice screaming for help. The 911 call with the man telling the police he was following him. The kid is un armed, the man is not. You really think that whack job shouldn't have been brought in while an investigation was conducted? really?

And not probable? A gated community in Florida and a black teenager dead.
Again, really?

A racially mixed gated community. Why do you like Ravi - keep implying gated communities are white havens only?

and murder? The man was not hiding the fact he followed what he considered suspicious activity. no crime. the man was on the phone with police and said he would follow. police said please don't. he did anyway. no crime.

later from girlfriend we find out after man follows, young man initiates a verbal confrontation. no crime

police get there after shooting and man with legal permit/license who has followed people numerous times and never shot anybody, says he fought for his life and shot suspicious young man. what crime?

where is even the suspicion of a crime in that story that would warrant an arrest? I would not want to be arrested on such flimsy information

I've never implied that gated communities are white havens.

The fact that this one is racially diverse makes the entire situation even worse....this man thought the kid was up to no good based on his skin color when it is perfectly normal for young blacks to be walking around the community.

 

[Sarah G]

Black kid goes to store.
White guy claims kid is suspicious.
Black kid notices white guy staring at him.
Black kid decides to walk away quickly.
White man pursues black kid.
Black kid calls girlfriend describing the scene.
Black kid's gf tells him to run away.
Black kid insists he will continue to simply walk quickly.
White man called 911 saying he sees suspicious kid.
Police tells him to stay put.
White man ignores police's instructions and pursues kid.
White man eventually confronts kid.
Black kid asks white man "Why are you following me?"
White man pumps a fatal shot into back of black kid.
Police finally arrives.
White man gets away free.
Another innocent black kid dead, for walking while black.
End of story.

Sad story. Don't forget the idiots standing up for the guy with the gun and in the end guy with gun will walk away scott free. Just like a murdering mother did just a few months ago in Florida.

 

[PredFan]

The police were not involved in an investigation INTO the shooting, either.

THAT's the point.

see? more bullshit. The investigation on scene said, no crime. You are lying. You just don't like the outcome. You hate Justice.

The police decided not to arrest. They could find no evidence a crime had been committed.

The dead body with a bullet wound, in the street, not the man's home, and not even his property. But no evidence of a crime.

Attacks don't only happen in your home or on your property, they happen anywhere. You can shoot someone in self-defense.

 

[PredFan]

According to liberals, no, a minority cannot be a racist.

Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher. Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening. Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened. There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense. It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.

You present a perfect argument except for the glaring flaw (bold & underlined). What crime was happening? What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful? Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause. My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.

I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law. But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?

Bold and underlined, it is your opinion, the legality of an act isn't based on opinion.

 

[Ravi]

I wonder if Zimmerman is still patrolling the neighborhood. If so, I wonder if anyone that lives there feels safe with him doing that.

 

[Ravi]

According to liberals, no, a minority cannot be a racist.

Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher. Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening. Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened. There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense. It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.

You present a perfect argument except for the glaring flaw (bold & underlined). What crime was happening? What had Martin done which is in any way unlawful? Based on everything I've read and heard, Zimmerman acted without reasonable cause. My understanding is even police are constrained from doing that.

I'll concede that I'm from New York/New Jersey and I know nothing about Florida law. But is it lawful there for an ordinary citizen to aggressively confront and question another citizen on public thoroughfare because of some vague suspicion of wrongdoing?

Here's the text of the law:

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

There's nothing in there that authorizes killing someone simply because they are walking in a neighborhood where they have every right to be.

And in fact, it specifically doesn't apply to the killing of children.

If anyone in this case had the justification to use deadly force, it would have been the victim.

 

[PredFan]

“These a--holes always get away,” Zimmerman complained.
What happened next is unclear, and has already reverberated nationwide. Calls to 911 alerted police to a scuffle and someone crying for help. In one, the chilling howl stopped after the clear, crisp blast of a bullet. Trayvon was lying face down on the ground near a pathway that runs through the townhouse community.
One 911 caller sobbed to the dispatcher over not having helped the young man who wailed.
Zimmerman told police that was him crying for help and that Trayvon started the fight. He claimed self-defense and was not charged, flaring deep-seated racial tensions between blacks and police, who have a long history of distrust. On at least two prior occasions, the Sanford Police Department was accused of giving favorable treatment to relatives of officers involved in violent encounters with blacks.
In 2010, police waited seven weeks to arrest a lieutenant’s son who was caught on video sucker-punching a homeless black man.
In 2005, two security guards — one the son of a longtime Sanford police officer and the other a department volunteer — killed a black man they said was trying to run them over. Black leaders complained of a lackluster investigation. The guards ultimately were acquitted.

Zimmerman claims it was him screaming. The rest is irrelevant.

This was not self-defense,” Cutcher said. “We heard no fighting, no wrestling, no punching. We heard a boy crying. As soon as the shot went off, it stopped, which tells me it was the child crying. If it had been Zimmerman crying, it wouldn’t have stopped. If you’re hurting, you’re hurting.”
She and her friend say they heard the sounds from a few steps away, where they were inside beside an open window. Seconds later, they dashed out to find a boy face down on the ground and a man standing over him, a foot on each side of the body on the ground, with his hands pinning the shooting victim down.

People cry when they are frightened, when your assailant is shot and down, you stop crying. What those two saw is not evidence of anything.

“I know what I heard. I heard a cry and a shot,” Mora said. “If there was a fight, it did not happen here where the boy was shot. I would have heard it, as this all happened right outside my open window.”

Irrelevant. Proof of nothing.

Cutcher was one of eight or nine 911 callers that night but she said investigators dismissed her, and a detective failed to follow up with her. Both women said police seemed very blasé.

they dismissed her because it was irrelevant.

 

[PredFan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/opinion/blow-the-curious-case-of-trayvon-martin.html?_r=1

As the father of two black teenage boys, this case hits close to home. This is the fear that seizes me whenever my boys are out in the world: that a man with a gun and an itchy finger will find them “suspicious.” That passions may run hot and blood run cold. That it might all end with a hole in their chest and hole in my heart. That the law might prove insufficient to salve my loss.

That is the burden of black boys in America and the people that love them: running the risk of being descended upon in the dark and caught in the cross-hairs of someone who crosses the line.

According to Crump, the father was told that one of the reasons Zimmerman wasn’t arrested was because he had a “squeaky clean” record. It wasn’t. According to the local news station WFTV, Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for “battery on a law enforcement officer.”

Furthermore, ABC News reported on Tuesday that one of the responding officers “corrected a witness after she told him that she heard the teen cry for help.” And The Miami Herald published an article on Thursday that said three witnesses had heard the “desperate wail of a child, a gunshot, and then silence.”

WFTV also reported this week that the officer in charge of the scene when Trayvon was shot was also in charge of another controversial case. In 2010, a lieutenant’s son was videotaped attacking a black homeless man. The officer’s son also was not initially arrested in that case. He was later arrested when the television station broke the news.

More emotional hyperbole. Irrelevant to the case.