Who are the MORMONS and what do they believe

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Actually closer to 200 years 1829 1830 or so.

Thanx...brain dead this morning~ corrected.

 

[Colin norris]

LDS was formed in 1830---about 191 years ago--but facts aren't really your strong point,are they?

I stand corrected but he was still a criminal.

Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, was subjected to approximately thirty criminal actions during his life.[1] Another source reports that Smith was arrested at least 42 times, including in the states of New York, Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois.[2]

In 1844, Smith was killed by a mob in Carthage, Illinois, while in jail awaiting trial on charges of inciting a riot for ordering the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper critical of Smith which accused him of practicing polygamy, and for treason against the State of Illinois for calling out the Nauvoo Legion contrary to the orders of the Governor of Illinois.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I stand corrected but he was still a criminal.

Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, was subjected to approximately thirty criminal actions during his life.[1] Another source reports that Smith was arrested at least 42 times, including in the states of New York, Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois.[2]

In 1844, Smith was killed by a mob in Carthage, Illinois, while in jail awaiting trial on charges of inciting a riot for ordering the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper critical of Smith which accused him of practicing polygamy, and for treason against the State of Illinois for calling out the Nauvoo Legion contrary to the orders of the Governor of Illinois.

And the mob was in the wrong and probably created by the Governor. Smith was charged by haters that drove out the Mormons across the Country starting with New York. He was probably accused for political reasons on most of the charges against him. Hell even after he was murdered the US Government got in the act trying to start a war with Brigham Young later in Utah.

 

[Colin norris]

And the mob was in the wrong and probably created by the Governor. Smith was charged by haters that drove out the Mormons across the Country starting with New York. He was probably accused for political reasons on most of the charges against him. Hell even after he was murdered the US Government got in the act trying to start a war with Brigham Young later in Utah.

I'm pleased he's just another religious fraudulent charlatan taken out. There a lot more yet to go the thieving lying corrupt arseholes.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm pleased he's just another religious fraudulent charlatan taken out. There a lot more yet to go the thieving lying corrupt arseholes.

So as long as people you don't like are murdered you don't mind how very enlightened of you. And beter if the Government does it right?

 

[onefour1]

This succinctly said what I was going to. Mormons are almost without fail very kind people. But their founders were not, and they do indeed belong to a cult. Joseph Smith was absolutely a con man and a grifter.

The Book of Abraham is a perfect example

Regarding Joseph Smith and the "glasslooking" charge see Joseph Smith/Legal issues/1826 court appearance for glasslooking
Regarding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham see Book of Abraham/Joseph Smith Papyri

 

[onefour1]

Joseph Smith was said to translate the Book of Abraham which, he professed, was about Abraham. It was not. It was a standard Egyptian funeral document. The entire thing was false. As usual, he grifted the entire thing.

Anyone can look it up and see.

Depending on where they look I suppose. However, if you read the Church member responses you can actually learn something.

 

[alang1216]

You're going to get a nice King James Bible from the Mormons or LDS however they style themselves, and there are lots of good feelings about Jesus Christ — but some of that other literature they put out is just too bizarre, and I've got to put my foot down when I see those extravagant temples with expensive brickwork, satellite dishes, and the expectations of tithing to pay for it all, not to mention the "Lost Boys" who are excommunicated or shunned because the older men don't want them competing for their "sealed wives" or locked-up women in the church.

You're judging their religion by your religion. I'd guess they'd find your version of Christianity to be bizarre, I mean you are ignoring an entire book of scripture.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Regarding Joseph Smith and the "glasslooking" charge see Joseph Smith/Legal issues/1826 court appearance for glasslooking
Regarding Joseph Smith and the Book of Abraham see Book of Abraham/Joseph Smith Papyri

Well..that's the party line, I suppose----but new gospel from a hat--Christ in North America---magic underwear---a ban on 'hot drinks' that applies to cold coffee..but not hot chocolate--baptism of the dead---Magic gold Tablets--a belief that all members of the church are descended from Jews, or adopted into the Jewish 'family' ---boys in the Priesthood at age 12...just boys, of course---3 heavens---Godhood for the faithful----well...just not for me.

In fact, I don't think the theology matters anyway....most LDS folk live good lives and are active in the community. What brand of religion they espouse is not a concern of mine---as long as they are adhering to the law.

 

[onefour1]

So the thief on the cross. The one Jesus told, today you will be with me in Paradise. Jesus wasn't telling the truth about that? That man didn't get to heaven after all because he didn't fulfill your requirement of baptism? Luke 23:43

Yes, Jesus told the thief on the cross that "today you will be with me in paradise". Jesus was telling the truth however on that day known as "today" Jesus never went to heaven. He did go to a place called paradise but that was not heaven. Jesus resurrected after 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb.

Matthew 12:40​

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Upon Jesus' resurrection Jesus told Mary the following:

John 20:17​

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So Jesus had not yet ascended to heaven where his Father in Heaven resides. So what is called paradise was not heaven. When Jesus died, he went among the dead and preached the gospel. Those who receive the gospel who are dead are in paradise awaiting their resurrection. Those who have not received the gospel who are dead are in spirit prison. While Jesus' body lay in the tomb, He went among the dead that were spirits and preached his gospel.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The thief on the cross died and was taught and received the gospel in the world of spirits and was with Jesus on that day in paradise. Eventually he would receive baptism for the dead.

 

[Coyote]

So you are equating our lord and savior, Jesus Christ, with the convicted con man, Joseph Smith?

You should probably repent while you still have the chance you vile heathen.

Nah...repentance is overblown when it comes to picking messiahs. So many religions started out with a man, proclaimed a messiah, with a great message, and an unoriginal back story. A lucky few made it to Big Time.

Jesus was executed as a convicted criminal after all (blasphemy). Joseph Smith was a convicted con man. The key differences between these messiah’s around whom developed some of the World’s largest religions, are the times they existed in. There is very little actual first hand historical information on Jesus, or Appolonius of Tyana, another contemporary sage (who never made it to the the Big Time)...there is considerably more on Mohammed, and for Joseph Smith, all the historical knowledge of a relatively modern era. If he had been born several thousand years ago, most would have been lost in or distorted in the various telling, and probably the Mountain Meadow Massacre completely buried.

Obviously, I’m not a “believer, but I think they all had some pretty good messages. You might make fun of the Mormans but keep in mind they built their values around the importance of family and community, as well as self sufficiency and care for those less able or less fortunate. In an era where women were still “less than” they placed a high value on education that included women.

IMO...the message is more important than the man (never seems to be a woman)...

Jesus...the messiah of the poor, the slaves, the downtrodden, tbe criminals, the powerless, the widows, the children. He saw all the evils, the greed, the wealth disparities of his era and preached against it. Take care care of the less fortunate, turn the other cheek, love God with all your heart, and your neighbor as you would yourself, a better life awaits you. Boy has that message gotten buried in today’s religion where wealth is presumed to be a sign of righteousness and poverty a stigma of moral turpitude. Mohammed’s message had similarities, though born out of a different culture. He saw around him a culture of conspicious greed and displays of wealth, that ignored the plight of the poor, the widows, and children. Seems like messiahs are born out cultural degeneration, to lead us back to better ways...until their message and the culture that sprang from from it become part of the problem.

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

Nah...repentance is overblown when it comes to picking messiahs. So many religions started out with a man, proclaimed a messiah, with a great message, and an unoriginal back story. A lucky few made it to Big Time.

Jesus was executed as a convicted criminal after all (blasphemy). Joseph Smith was a convicted con man. The key differences between these messiah’s around whom developed some of the World’s largest religions, are the times they existed in. There is very little actual first hand historical information on Jesus, or Appolonius of Tyana, another contemporary sage (who never made it to the the Big Time)...there is considerably more on Mohammed, and for Joseph Smith, all the historical knowledge of a relatively modern era. If he had been born several thousand years ago, most would have been lost in or distorted in the various telling, and probably the Mountain Meadow Massacre completely buried.

Obviously, I’m not a “believer, but I think they all had some pretty good messages. You might make fun of the Mormans but keep in mind they built their values around the importance of family and community, as well as self sufficiency and care for those less able or less fortunate. In an era where women were still “less than” they placed a high value on education that included women.

IMO...the message is more important than the man (never seems to be a woman)...

Jesus...the messiah of the poor, the slaves, the downtrodden, tbe criminals, the powerless, the widows, the children. He saw all the evils, the greed, the wealth disparities of his era and preached against it. Take care care of the less fortunate, turn the other cheek, love God with all your heart, and your neighbor as you would yourself, a better life awaits you. Boy has that message gotten buried in today’s religion where wealth is presumed to be a sign of righteousness and poverty a stigma of moral turpitude. Mohammed’s message had similarities, though born out of a different culture. He saw around him a culture of conspicious greed and displays of wealth, that ignored the plight of the poor, the widows, and children. Seems like messiahs are born out cultural degeneration, to lead us back to better ways...until their message and the culture that sprang from from it become part of the problem.

Moral, and social relativist blather. Congrats, you are a ship with out a sail, and empty vessel. Well trained.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Moral, and social relativist blather. Congrats, you are a ship with out a sail, and empty vessel. Well trained.


View attachment 532214

You did not cogently address a single thing she said---well trained indeed~

 

[Coyote]

Moral, and social relativist blather. Congrats, you are a ship with out a sail, and empty vessel. Well trained.


View attachment 532214

I follow my own drummer, you follow yours

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

You did not cogently address a single thing she said---well trained indeed~

Why? It's new age brainwash.

Let me summarize that massive lump of excrement;

All major religions, and the prophets of those religions, carry a similar message which is love, compassion, and forgiveness.

Therefore all religions are equal, and nothing, and no one, is greater than anyone, or anything else.

New Age...Relativist...mumbo jumbo.

It is smug, vacuous, excuse making, culture destroying, horse shit.

 

[Coyote]

Why? It's new age brainwash.

Let me summarize that massive lump of excrement;

All major religions, and the prophets of those religions, carry a similar message which is love, compassion, and forgiveness.

Therefore all religions are equal, and nothing, and no one, is greater than anyone, or anything else.

New Age...Relativist...mumbo jumbo.

It is smug, vacuous, excuse making, culture destroying, horse shit.

No one is saying are equal. The problem with your statement Is that claims of superiority are largely based on what believers claim and believers are often the problem.

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

No one is saying are equal. The problem with your statement Is that claims of superiority are largely based on what believers claim and believers are often the problem.

Nah...repentance is overblown when it comes to picking messiahs. So many religions started out with a man, proclaimed a messiah, with a great message, and an unoriginal back story. A lucky few made it to Big Time.

 

[Coyote]

View attachment 532233

And where does that claim equality?

 

[Coyote]

How would you judge one religion as better than another?

Lack of violence, war and conversion by force?
Inclusion over exclusion?
Doctrine of peace over violence?
Treatment of women?

I can only think of a very few that could truly be considered “better” both in the message and behavior of believers, such as the Baha’i or Jainism. But these are small religions that have never been political or nationalist powers.

Baha’i Faith | History, Practices, & Facts

Baha’i Faith, religion founded in Iraq in the mid-19th century by Mirza Hosayn ‘Ali Nuri, who is known as Baha’ Allah. Baha’is believe that Baha’ Allah and his forerunner, the Bab, were manifestations of God. The principal Baha’i tenets are the essential unity of all religions and the unity of...

www.britannica.com

BBC - Religions - Jainism: Women in Jainism

This page discusses Jain beliefs regarding women and equality.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[onefour1]

Our first article of faith says:
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

Unlike what is taught in the Athanasian Creed, we do not believe the Father and Son are the same being. We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are 3 separate and distinct beings. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that they are the same being. We believe that God the Father is the literal Father of our spirits and that Jesus was the firstborn spirit child of our Father in heaven.

Hebrews 12:9​

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Psalm 82:6​

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:31-36
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

In the New Testament God the Father is referred to as the father of spirits and that we are referred to as his offspring. In the Old Testament in Psalms 82 God tells us that we are gods and all of us are children of the Most High. We are not gods in the sense that we are equal with the Father and have reached his perfection and stature but that we are his offspring and Gods beget gods. Jesus referred to this verse when the Jews attempted to stone him for claiming He was the Son of God and said that we are gods.

We believe that our spirits pre-existed this earth life and that we lived with our Father in Heaven before coming to this earth. See my post on The Premortal Existence As Taught in the Bible.

We believe that it is the desire of God that we all become one with God even as Jesus is one with the Father.

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Matthew 5:48​

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It is the desire of God that we strive to be like him.