Who Are The Palestinians " III "

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960
※→ Hollie, et al,

The "Special Committee on Decolonization" (or the "C-24") identified 17 Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGT). None of the NSGTs were located in the Middle East•North African Region.


(COMMENT)

I am not saying that the US and UK are not Colonialist States, because, on a whim, the C-24 can change that definition. But the Arab Palestinians (who voted to support terrorist organizations in government) are clearly in Left Field on the idea that they have any standing in any of the 17 NSGTs. Certainly, none of the (often called incorrectly) occupied Palestinian territories (oPt) are not now, nor have they ever been, under colonial rule by the US and UK.

Whether or not the Jews had the right to establish a state is → irrelevant. There is no jurisdiction on Earth that has the right to disband the Jewish State of Israel, no matter what wrong they might have committed. And there is no jurisdiction on Earth that has the right to initiate an Armed International Conflict (AIC) which would open UN Charter Article 51 action (“Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations"). Israel has been an independent state since 1948 (three-quarters of a Century).

Whether or not the Israelis make some sort of a special accommodation to some third party - is a decision of theirs and theirs alone.

No Arab Palestinian rhetoric can dispute this.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your pretzel logic is not following the legal timeline. Palestine was created as a state in 1924. This is well documented. The Palestinians have Palestinian nationality. This is recognized worldwide.

Article 4​

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one does not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

The UN recognizes that that the Palestinians in Palestine have the same inalienable rights as any other people. Any violations of these inalienable rights are counter to international law.

That is my starting point. What do you have?

 

[Hollie]

Just another day living in the vicinity of Islamic terrorists.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960
※→ P F TINMORE, et al,

This is (once again) Rhetoric and Disinformation, plain and simple.

For the convenience of everyone else, P T Tinmore is addressing the "Convention of the Rights and Duties of a State" (1933). (AKA: Montevideo Convention of December 1933)

BLUF: The Arab Palestinians have not been denied any rights (they rejected their opportunities), and have failed to discharge their duties, until December 2012, and even that is debatable.

Your pretzel logic is not following the legal timeline. Palestine was created as a state in 1924. This is well documented. The Palestinians have Palestinian nationality. This is recognized worldwide.

Article 4​

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one does not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.

The UN recognizes that that the Palestinians in Palestine have the same inalienable rights as any other people. Any violations of these inalienable rights are counter to international law.

That is my starting point. What do you have?

(COMMENT)

First Off: Israel is jurisdictionally equal to any other entity that might challenge it. Israel has the right and capacity to exercise their right to self-determination. The Arab Palestinians have made a complete shamble out of this concept. They have NO "capacity" to establish anything unique to the Arab Palestinians.

Point #2: Nothing in 1924 establishes an entity called "Palestine" and there was no activity that can be addressed, in 1924, as a Government established by the Arab Palestinians. "Palestine" was defined by the Palestine Order in Council of 1922; NOT anything in 1924. And the Arab Palestinians declined on multiple occasions to participate in "in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government...." → "The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people."
AND
"Replying to these observations, the Colonial Officer pointed out that paragraph 4 of Article 22 of the League Covenant had been interpreted by the Principal Allied Powers in the unratified Treaty of Sevres, where Syria and Iraq, but not Palestine, were explicitly said to have been “provisionally recognized” as independent States."
SOURCE OF QUOTES: Political History of Palestine under British Administration (1947)

Point #3: “self-government will be granted as soon as the Jewish people in Palestine are sufficiently able through numbers and powers to benefit to the full by self-government, and not before.”
SOURCE: ibid

It is not unusual for the Arab Palestinians and the various anti-Israeli organizations to try and create the existence of an entity (Arab Palestinian Government of any kind) something written in 1924. There is a 1925 Palestine Citizenship Order, that says: "Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August 1924 shall become Palestine citizens." But again, that is in reference to the "Palestine" that was defined by the Order in Council and under the government established by the British Administration and for which the Arab Palestinians rejected participation.

The Arab Palestinians were NOT prevented from participating in self-governing activities over the territory under the administration of the Mandate for Palestine.

Do not be fooled by the false and misleading information that is repeatedly presented by the pro-Arab Palestinians and the anti-Israeli movements.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

BLUF: The Arab Palestinians have not been denied any rights (they rejected their opportunities),

Link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

First Off: Israel is jurisdictionally equal to any other entity that might challenge it. Israel has the right and capacity to exercise their right to self-determination.

Self determination where? Israel has no borders. Israel has no defined territory. I cannot find where Israel has legal claim to any territory.

Self determination is for the people of the place not for people from someplace else.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Replying to these observations, the Colonial Officer pointed out that paragraph 4 of Article 22 of the League Covenant had been interpreted by the Principal Allied Powers in the unratified Treaty of Sevres, where Syria and Iraq, but not Palestine, were explicitly said to have been “provisionally recognized” as independent States."

Indeed, the Treaty of Sevres was not ratified. It was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne that made no such provisions for Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Point #3: “self-government will be granted as soon as the Jewish people in Palestine are sufficiently able through numbers and powers to benefit to the full by self-government, and not before.”

Indeed, Britain prevented the formation of a democratic government until the Jews became the majority.

That didn't happen so Britain left with nothing.

 

[Hollie]

Indeed, Britain prevented the formation of a democratic government until the Jews became the majority.

That didn't happen so Britain left with nothing.

Indeed. Silly conspiracy theories.

 

[Hollie]

Indeed, the Treaty of Sevres was not ratified. It was replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne that made no such provisions for Palestine.

Indeed. Nonsense.

 

[Hollie]

Islamic terrorist gee-had attack prevented.

Israeli Forces Kill Three Palestinian Terrorists En Route to Attack - Algemeiner.com

i24 News -Israeli security forces on Sunday shot dead three Palestinian terrorists in the West Bank who were en route to Israel in order to perpetrate a terrorist attack. The operation near Jenin takes place less than 24 hours after another Jenin terrorist murdered a security patrolman in Tel...

www.algemeiner.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed. Silly conspiracy theories.

There you go. That refutes my post.

 

[Hollie]

There you go. That refutes my post.

There you go. Your usual nonsense.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960
※→ P F TINMORE, et al,

I already gave it to you in Posting #3543. Rarely is it the case that I don't cite my sources. A habit I picked up in my post-grad work.

BLUF: The Arab Palestinians have not been denied any rights (they rejected their opportunities),

Link?

(ANSWER)

See Paragraph #19 (for Israel) and then the very first sentence in Paragraph #22 (for the Arab Palestinians) Political History of Palestine under British Administration.

You may not agree with it. But you cannot apply 21st Century political realities to the protocols used in early 20th decisions. In two weeks, is the 101st anniversary of the Mandate for Palestine and the Palestine Order in Council. The Treaty of Lausanne was signed on 24 July 1923. It is over 100 years old.

​

There have been a lot of changes since then.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

Update to the planned Islamic terrorist gee-had attack prevented by the Israeli anti gee-had defenses.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You may not agree with it. But you cannot apply 21st Century political realities to the protocols used in early 20th decisions.

Do they have an expiration date?

Link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

See Paragraph #19 (for Israel) and then the very first sentence in Paragraph #22 (for the Arab Palestinians) Political History of Palestine under British Administration.

“There can, in our view, be no doubt,” they wrote, “that racial animosity on the part of the Arabs, consequent upon the disappointment of their political and national aspirations and fear for their economic future, was the fundamental cause of the outbreak of August last. In less than ten years three serious attacks have been made by Arabs on Jews. Fore eighty years before the first of these attacks there is no recorded instance of any similar incidents. It is obvious then that the relations between the two races during the past decade must have different in some material respect from those which previously obtained. The Arabs have come to see in the Jewish immigrant not only a menace to their livelihood but a possible overlord of the future.

 

[Hollie]

 

[rylah]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960
※→ P F TINMORE, et al,

This is (once again) Rhetoric and Disinformation, plain and simple.

For the convenience of everyone else, P T Tinmore is addressing the "Convention of the Rights and Duties of a State" (1933). (AKA: Montevideo Convention of December 1933)

BLUF: The Arab Palestinians have not been denied any rights (they rejected their opportunities), and have failed to discharge their duties, until December 2012, and even that is debatable.


(COMMENT)

First Off: Israel is jurisdictionally equal to any other entity that might challenge it. Israel has the right and capacity to exercise their right to self-determination. The Arab Palestinians have made a complete shamble out of this concept. They have NO "capacity" to establish anything unique to the Arab Palestinians.

Point #2: Nothing in 1924 establishes an entity called "Palestine" and there was no activity that can be addressed, in 1924, as a Government established by the Arab Palestinians. "Palestine" was defined by the Palestine Order in Council of 1922; NOT anything in 1924. And the Arab Palestinians declined on multiple occasions to participate in "in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government...." → "The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people."
AND
"Replying to these observations, the Colonial Officer pointed out that paragraph 4 of Article 22 of the League Covenant had been interpreted by the Principal Allied Powers in the unratified Treaty of Sevres, where Syria and Iraq, but not Palestine, were explicitly said to have been “provisionally recognized” as independent States."
SOURCE OF QUOTES: Political History of Palestine under British Administration (1947)

Point #3: “self-government will be granted as soon as the Jewish people in Palestine are sufficiently able through numbers and powers to benefit to the full by self-government, and not before.”
SOURCE: ibid

It is not unusual for the Arab Palestinians and the various anti-Israeli organizations to try and create the existence of an entity (Arab Palestinian Government of any kind) something written in 1924. There is a 1925 Palestine Citizenship Order, that says: "Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August 1924 shall become Palestine citizens." But again, that is in reference to the "Palestine" that was defined by the Order in Council and under the government established by the British Administration and for which the Arab Palestinians rejected participation.

The Arab Palestinians were NOT prevented from participating in self-governing activities over the territory under the administration of the Mandate for Palestine.

Do not be fooled by the false and misleading information that is repeatedly presented by the pro-Arab Palestinians and the anti-Israeli movements.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

Point #3: “self-government will be granted as soon as the Jewish people in Palestine are sufficiently able through numbers and powers to benefit to the full by self-government, and not before.”
SOURCE: ibid

This paragraph sets straight the argument about Churchil's later attempt to revise the Balfour Declaration,
regarding Britain's intent in support for the Jewish National Homeland.

Thanks for bringing that up,
it's an important fact to remember.

 

[rylah]

Self determination where? Israel has no borders. Israel has no defined territory. I cannot find where Israel has legal claim to any territory.

Self determination is for the people of the place not for people from someplace else.

Israel's legal title to the territory is in the very documents that created Palestine,
as a separate geographical and political unit - for the Jewish nation.

Indeed, self-determination is for the people of the place,
just not for the Arab nation, nor any other.

 

[rylah]

“There can, in our view, be no doubt,” they wrote, “that racial animosity on the part of the Arabs, consequent upon the disappointment of their political and national aspirations and fear for their economic future, was the fundamental cause of the outbreak of August last. In less than ten years three serious attacks have been made by Arabs on Jews. Fore eighty years before the first of these attacks there is no recorded instance of any similar incidents. It is obvious then that the relations between the two races during the past decade must have different in some material respect from those which previously obtained. The Arabs have come to see in the Jewish immigrant not only a menace to their livelihood but a possible overlord of the future.

"The Shaw commission, however, did not accept these immediate causes of Arab apprehension as an adequate explanation of the events they were called upon investigate."

Sums up the racial xenophobic nature of Arab hostility towards Jews,
and the fear of loosing exclusive Arab-Muslim hegemony.

What if other MENA minorities demand independence?