Who wants to see Russia beat up over Ukraine?

[Zavulon]

The invasion of Afghanistan was absolutely justified.

Most of those wars/conflicts were a whole lot more complicated than a simple mass invasion.

The invasion of Iraq was clearly unjustified. Even in that case, the U.S. never wanted to annex Iraq permanently. Today Iraq is independent of the U.S.

The invasions of Mexico & Cuba were the only other ones that were unjustified - they happened over a hundred years ago. Neither were annexed.

We did not invade Serbia, Syria or Libya.

In Vietnam and Korea we were asked by the existing governments. We never annexed either one.

Russia recognized Ukraine as an independent country, made treaties with Ukraine then invaded Ukraine fully intent on permanently annexing Ukraine.

Using America's history to justify Russia's illegal & immoral invasion of Ukraine is nonsense.

Shall we list every atrocity in history as justification to commit atrocities now?

Should we consider the current invasion of Ukraine as justification for the German invasion of Russia?

They're about the same.

No. Rules are rules. They should be same for both sides. If one side broke them - another side shouldn't follow them either (until next big war and new set of rules established by its victors).
And, from the Russian point of view, their so called invasion was justified, too. They recognized DPR and LPR as independent states (as well as the USA recognized Kosovo), made a mutual defense treaty with them, and voilà - Ukrainian attack against DPR and LPR becames equal to Ukrainian attack against Russian Federation itself. And then - the whole Special Military Operation became pure and legal collective self-defense.
Yes, Russia recognized Ukraine as an independent state. But it doesn't mean, that the Russian Federation don't have a right to recall this recognition or recognize independence of other regions of the former Ukraine.
We shouldn't justificate any atrocities at all. But we should understand that our world is not ideal. We should try to avoid unnecessary violence and we definitely should try to defend equal rights for all human beings (including the Russians) and nuclear super-powers shouldn't violate vital interests of each other. Without that there won't be any reliable peace. We should talk with each other and try to find positive solution.

 

[Richard-H]

You are not rebutting me, you are calling General Tommy Franks silly. I merely take material from his book on the two wars and be honest as to what he said.
Are you saying the Taliban were right to invade Afghanistan?

I said who lied. It was General Colin Powell. I even said why he lied. The CIA told him and not Bush.
Your claim is we habitually invade countries. Surely you mean as Biden is doing now in two countries?

The Taliban never invaded Afghanistan. They were Afghanis.

Based on your demonstrated reading comprehension, I doubt you understood a word Gen. Franks wrote.

What 2 countries has the Biden Administration invaded?

If you could read, you'd know that I denied that the U.S. has invaded most of the countries listed.

 

[Richard-H]

No. Rules are rules. They should be same for both sides. If one side broke them - another side shouldn't follow them either (until next big war and new set of rules established by its victors).
And, from the Russian point of view, their so called invasion was justified, too. They recognized DPR and LPR as independent states (as well as the USA recognized Kosovo), made a mutual defense treaty with them, and voilà - Ukrainian attack against DPR and LPR becames equal to Ukrainian attack against Russian Federation itself. And then - the whole Special Military Operation became pure and legal collective self-defense.
Yes, Russia recognized Ukraine as an independent state. But it doesn't mean, that the Russian Federation don't have a right to recall this recognition or recognize independence of other regions of the former Ukraine.
We shouldn't justificate any atrocities at all. But we should understand that our world is not ideal. We should try to avoid unnecessary violence and we definitely should try to defend equal rights for all human beings (including the Russians) and nuclear super-powers shouldn't violate vital interests of each other. Without that there won't be any reliable peace. We should talk with each other and try to find positive solution.

I was fully supportive of the Russian position before they launched the invasion of Ukraine. I thought Putin was just saber-rattling to bring NATO & the Ukrainians to the negotiating table.

Instead, Putin made a list of demands and when they weren't immediately accepted, he withdrew from negotiations and launched the invasion.

Putin doesn't know the meaning of the word 'negotiate'.

Russia recognized the borders of Ukraine long ago, they don't get to redefine those borders.

 

[Robert W]

The Taliban never invaded Afghanistan. They were Afghanis.

Based on your demonstrated reading comprehension, I doubt you understood a word Gen. Franks wrote.

What 2 countries has the Biden Administration invaded?

If you could read, you'd know that I denied that the U.S. has invaded most of the countries listed.

Sure they invaded Afghanistan. Does not matter if they were born there or not, they now hold the country prisoner. I understand all of General Franks book. But you don't know anything about his book. Ukraine and Israel are who Biden has invaded.

 

[Zavulon]

I was fully supportive of the Russian position before they launched the invasion of Ukraine.

Before 2022 or before 2014? You'd better be more specific.

I thought Putin was just saber-rattling to bring NATO & the Ukrainians to the negotiating table.

We rarely do saber-rattling. When we say something, we usually mean it. And when we say, that we will nuke European (and/or American) counties if their facilitation to Kievan regime turned into participation in the war, we actually mean it. If you want a war - you'll get the war.

Instead, Putin made a list of demands and when they weren't immediately accepted, he withdrew from negotiations and launched the invasion.

You'd better have them accepted. There were negotiations during eight long years. Thousands of innocent people have been killed during those negotiations by Kievan regime.

Putin doesn't know the meaning of the word 'negotiate'.

Sometimes, quite often, negotiations can be useful. Sometimes there is nothing left to discuss. So, we just have no other option rather than fight for our human rights and our lives.

Russia recognized the borders of Ukraine long ago, they don't get to redefine those borders.

It was not about redefinition of borders. It was about recognition of the independence. And we do have right to recognize independence of any part of the former Ukraine (or any other state).

 

[Ringo]

Ukrainians have found a new way to escape the country
Increasingly, they began to receive driver licenses of categories for truck driving. This allows them to get a job in a transport company and thus travel abroad.
There they abandon the trucks, sometimes along with the cargo, turn off the phone and leave, Ukrainian media write.“
Sometimes trucks are abandoned immediately after crossing the border, right with the cargo <...> More often, trucks are abandoned after they are unloaded: they park them , turn off the geolocation and leave,” said a representative of the transport company.

 

[Robert W]

Ukrainians have found a new way to escape the country
Increasingly, they began to receive driver licenses of categories for truck driving. This allows them to get a job in a transport company and thus travel abroad.
There they abandon the trucks, sometimes along with the cargo, turn off the phone and leave, Ukrainian media write.“
Sometimes trucks are abandoned immediately after crossing the border, right with the cargo <...> More often, trucks are abandoned after they are unloaded: they park them , turn off the geolocation and leave,” said a representative of the transport company.

They would not have to escape had Russia not invaded ukraine.

 

[Ringo]

They would not have to escape had Russia not invaded ukraine.

Really? And if you weren't born, you wouldn't be interested in any of this at all.

 

[Richard-H]

Sure they invaded Afghanistan. Does not matter if they were born there or not, they now hold the country prisoner. I understand all of General Franks book. But you don't know anything about his book. Ukraine and Israel are who Biden has invaded.

Apparently, you do not know the meaning of the word 'invade'.

Better check your Russian to English dictionary, comrade!

 

[Richard-H]

Before 2022 or before 2014? You'd better be more specific.



We rarely do saber-rattling. When we say something, we usually mean it. And when we say, that we will nuke European (and/or American) counties if their facilitation to Kievan regime turned into participation in the war, we actually mean it. If you want a war - you'll get the war.


You'd better have them accepted. There were negotiations during eight long years. Thousands of innocent people have been killed during those negotiations by Kievan regime.


Sometimes, quite often, negotiations can be useful. Sometimes there is nothing left to discuss. So, we just have no other option rather than fight for our human rights and our lives.


It was not about redefinition of borders. It was about recognition of the independence. And we do have right to recognize independence of any part of the former Ukraine (or any other state).

Before 2022. I fully agree that Crimea should be part of Russia.

Russians are a boastful & forceful people, but they can be forced to back down. I know, I'm married to a Russian.

Russians are a primitive people that believe in domination by brute force - which is why they always have a tyrant. Democracy is too complicated for them.

Once it's established that they do not have the advantage of brute force, they will back down.

If Russia starts a nuclear war, Russia will definitely be destroyed. Russians aren't that stupid. (Well, maybe YOU are). The West's military technology is 30-50 years more advanced than Russia's. Unlike Russia which boats and exaggerates its military technology, the U.S. is very, very secretive about our military technology. The technology we send to Ukraine is our very old technology.

If ethnic Ukrainian Russians were so persecuted before 2022, why are they fully supporting the Kiev regime in this war? Half the Ukrainian Army are ethnic Russians.

Could it be that the ONLY reason Russian is trying to annex the Donbas region is because of the industrial value of that region? That it's simply a land grab to compensate for Russia's tiny economy?

 

[Zavulon]

Before 2022. I fully agree that Crimea should be part of Russia.

Russians are a boastful & forceful people, but they can be forced to back down. I know, I'm married to a Russian.

Russians are a primitive people that believe in domination by brute force - which is why they always have a tyrant. Democracy is too complicated for them.

Once it's established that they do not have the advantage of brute force, they will back down.

If Russia starts a nuclear war, Russia will definitely be destroyed. Russians aren't that stupid. (Well, maybe YOU are). The West's military technology is 30-50 years more advanced than Russia's. Unlike Russia which boats and exaggerates its military technology, the U.S. is very, very secretive about our military technology. The technology we send to Ukraine is our very old technology.

If ethnic Ukrainian Russians were so persecuted before 2022, why are they fully supporting the Kiev regime in this war? Half the Ukrainian Army are ethnic Russians.

Could it be that the ONLY reason Russian is trying to annex the Donbas region is because of the industrial value of that region? That it's simply a land grab to compensate for Russia's tiny economy?

I'm not an expert, but I trust experts, and they say that we can win a nuclear war. So, I'll prefer to take my chances.
About ethic Russians in Ukraine... I believe that the difference without a difference is not a difference. Ukrainians are Russians too, same way as Californians are Americans. Why some of them support Kievan regime? Some of them - for money of American taxpayers, some - just fooled, but most of them - just don't have much of choice. The borders are closed, you know. While pretty many of them successfully work with the special services of the Russian Federation.

About the goals of the war... Man, do you really believe that all coal and thorium of Donbass, all cherries of Melitopol and all watermelons of Kherson can economically overweight even 10% of the sanctions?
It's definitely not about the money. It about the very survival of the Russian people.

 

[Ringo]

If Russia starts a nuclear war, Russia will definitely be destroyed. Russians aren't that stupid. (Well, maybe YOU are). The West's military technology is 30-50 years more advanced than Russia's.

The problem for humanity is that the so-called elite of the West can believe this bullshit.
The degradation of Western elites has reached such a level. Transvestite monkeys with grenades.....

 

[SavannahMann]

The problem for humanity is that the so-called elite of the West can believe this bullshit.
The degradation of Western elites has reached such a level. Transvestite monkeys with grenades.....

So launch the nukes. Do it already.

 

[Zavulon]

So launch the nukes. Do it already.

In the proper time.

 

[Robert W]

Apparently, you do not know the meaning of the word 'invade'.

Better check your Russian to English dictionary, comrade!

The Taliban were gone. They invaded. Classic definition. Tell us why you defend the Taliban?

 

[Richard-H]

I'm not an expert, but I trust experts, and they say that we can win a nuclear war. So, I'll prefer to take my chances.
About ethic Russians in Ukraine... I believe that the difference without a difference is not a difference. Ukrainians are Russians too, same way as Californians are Americans. Why some of them support Kievan regime? Some of them - for money of American taxpayers, some - just fooled, but most of them - just don't have much of choice. The borders are closed, you know. While pretty many of them successfully work with the special services of the Russian Federation.

About the goals of the war... Man, do you really believe that all coal and thorium of Donbass, all cherries of Melitopol and all watermelons of Kherson can economically overweight even 10% of the sanctions?
It's definitely not about the money. It about the very survival of the Russian people.

It's amazing how you Russians desperately believe the lies your government tells you! Of course, you have no choice but to believe them.

Russia would never survive a nuclear war. Your 'experts' are lying to you. Just the worldwide contamination after a nuclear war will kill everyone in Russia.

The fact that NATO has intermediate range nuclear missiles on Russia's border alone is enough to ensure that Russia would not survive. Russia's strategic position is not good.

At least Russia can be assured that NATO will never start a war. NATO is strictly a defensive alliance, there is no command mechanism for NATO to take offensive action against Russia. I'm sure that the Russian government never told you that fact. They need to keep you scared of NATO.

Not all Ukrainians are ethnic Russians. About half are not. If there was such a huge persecution of Russian Ukrainians, then they would have sided with the Russian invasion. They did not.

BTW - The Ukrainians have a lot more 'Special Services' people in Russia than Russia has in Ukraine. Don't be surprised if some are sitting on nuclear weapons - just waiting to trigger them if Russia uses nukes in Ukraine.

The Donbas region was the jewel of the Soviet industry. Remember my wife grew up in the Soviet Union - she remembers all the Soviet shows about how proud they were of the Donbas industrial complex.

It just proves how you believed all the Russian government lies when you say: "It's about the very survival of the Russian people". Really?

There was absolutely no threat to the Russian people by anyone before 2022, and there still isn't any real threat. Nobody wants to invade Russia, and nobody wants war with Russia. That is just another lie told to you so that Putin can use you to achieve his dream of reinstating the Russian Empire and becoming the next 'Peter the Great'.

Of course, the only thing that Peter was great at was killing Russian people by the hundreds of thousands so he could become rich and powerful. Putin is the same.

Somehow, Russian always think that the more Russians that get killed the greater their leader is. So, a nuclear war that kills hundreds of millions of Russians will make 'Putin the Great', right?

Can you be that stupid?

 

[Richard-H]

The problem for humanity is that the so-called elite of the West can believe this bullshit.
The degradation of Western elites has reached such a level. Transvestite monkeys with grenades.....

Are you really stupid enough to believe that?

The West's military technology was far beyond anything that Russia had imagined back in 1991. Now Russia has caught up with the 1991 level of Wester technology at best. They forget that the West has continued to develop new technologies since then.

Remember - You thought that your 'special military operation' would take only a week or so, but when your army tried attacking Kiev they were slaughtered. They've been fighting inch by inch in Ukraine ever since. Hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers have died. Apparently, it did not go the way Putin expected.

 

[SavannahMann]

In the proper time.

Don’t wait scooter. Launch them. Don’t just threaten. Do it.

 

[Ringo]

Don’t wait scooter. Launch them. Don’t just threaten. Do it.

Why bother? It's much safer to pay the Taliban the money and they'll do the job. They already have the experience.

 

[Ringo]

Are you really stupid enough to believe that?
The West's military technology was far beyond anything that Russia had imagined back in 1991.

No wonder you're talking shit like that. It's what you've been listening to your whole life.
You see, piglet, the US is like a steroid-pumped boxer, wearing fancy boxer briefs that cost $100,000 (90% of which was stolen by the manufacturers and shared with politicians), wearing fancy gloves that cost $500,000 (same origin as the briefs). The boxer moves beautifully and waves his hands effectively.
But invariably he gets punched in the face and knocked out by a simple unattractive man in cheap underpants and gloves. The Vietnamese, Koreans and Afghans can tell you a lot about this.
And only congenital idiocy, compounded by stinking Goebbels propaganda allows you to even think about war with Russia. You fucking moron....