Who's Afraid of Socialism?

[whitehall]

What "current economic crisis"? The DOW is around 24000 and the GDP is around 4.1% while unemployment is at a historic low. One symptom that seems to be common in idiotic socialists is living in the past and hoping for bad news.

 

[dblack]

I hope so.

Putting truth to the lie that capitalism is voluntary.

So you believe socialism is "voluntary?"

I don't see any socialists policing the planet to ensure access to resources.

Nice dodge. Now answer the question: Is socialism voluntary or not?

It is not a dodge. I answered in context, which you are trying to alter.

No socio/economic system is entirely voluntary.

So what?

We don't have a choice but to reproduce the means of our existence. How we go about that is dependent on the social organization of the means of production in the society we live.

Wha?

 

[Tehon]

Putting truth to the lie that capitalism is voluntary.

So you believe socialism is "voluntary?"

I don't see any socialists policing the planet to ensure access to resources.

Nice dodge. Now answer the question: Is socialism voluntary or not?

It is not a dodge. I answered in context, which you are trying to alter.

No socio/economic system is entirely voluntary.

So what?

We don't have a choice but to reproduce the means of our existence. How we go about that is dependent on the social organization of the means of production in the society we live.

Wha?

Reproduce your means of existence;
It's the things you need to survive. You have to procure water and food on a daily basis. You need clothes and shelter. Medical care. In America we use the capitalist socio economic system. That means you need money to reproduce your means of existence. You have no choice.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Maybe because they don't have a federal reserve and a big government to bail them out like we do when everything goes to hell in a hand basket here, maybe?

Government can't bail anyone out without taking the money from someone else first.

Government can't bail anyone out without taking the money from someone else first.

Depends. TARP used tax dollars. The Fed used money created out of thin air.

In other words, it took the money away from all of us by inflating the currency.

In other words, it took the money away from all of us by inflating the currency.

They're shrinking the balance sheet. You're getting the money back that they never took from you!!!

When the government inflates the currency, it devalues all the currency already in circulation. It's robbing you. The Romans used to do it by mixing bronze in with gold in their coins. When you hand someone a pure gold coin, and they hand you back a coin with bronze mixed into it, do you believe you haven't been robbed?

When the government inflates the currency, it devalues all the currency already in circulation. It's robbing you.

The Fed increased their balance sheet from about $900 billion to about $4.5 trillion.
They multiplied "high powered money" by 5.
What did that do to inflation?

 

[dblack]

So you believe socialism is "voluntary?"

I don't see any socialists policing the planet to ensure access to resources.

Nice dodge. Now answer the question: Is socialism voluntary or not?

It is not a dodge. I answered in context, which you are trying to alter.

No socio/economic system is entirely voluntary.

So what?

We don't have a choice but to reproduce the means of our existence. How we go about that is dependent on the social organization of the means of production in the society we live.

Wha?

Reproduce your means of existence;
It's the things you need to survive. You have to procure water and food on a daily basis. You need clothes and shelter. Medical care. In America we use the capitalist socio economic system. That means you need money to reproduce your means of existence. You have no choice.

Sorry. But translating all the "very special" terminology used by socialists is tiresome for me. Especially when it's the source of so much equivocation.

 

[Norman]

Government can't bail anyone out without taking the money from someone else first.

Government can't bail anyone out without taking the money from someone else first.

Depends. TARP used tax dollars. The Fed used money created out of thin air.

In other words, it took the money away from all of us by inflating the currency.

In other words, it took the money away from all of us by inflating the currency.

They're shrinking the balance sheet. You're getting the money back that they never took from you!!!

When the government inflates the currency, it devalues all the currency already in circulation. It's robbing you. The Romans used to do it by mixing bronze in with gold in their coins. When you hand someone a pure gold coin, and they hand you back a coin with bronze mixed into it, do you believe you haven't been robbed?

When the government inflates the currency, it devalues all the currency already in circulation. It's robbing you.

The Fed increased their balance sheet from about $900 billion to about $4.5 trillion.
They multiplied "high powered money" by 5.
What did that do to inflation?

Without that the value would have exploded as happened in the great depression, so Bripat is still correct.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Government can't bail anyone out without taking the money from someone else first.

Depends. TARP used tax dollars. The Fed used money created out of thin air.

In other words, it took the money away from all of us by inflating the currency.

In other words, it took the money away from all of us by inflating the currency.

They're shrinking the balance sheet. You're getting the money back that they never took from you!!!

When the government inflates the currency, it devalues all the currency already in circulation. It's robbing you. The Romans used to do it by mixing bronze in with gold in their coins. When you hand someone a pure gold coin, and they hand you back a coin with bronze mixed into it, do you believe you haven't been robbed?

When the government inflates the currency, it devalues all the currency already in circulation. It's robbing you.

The Fed increased their balance sheet from about $900 billion to about $4.5 trillion.
They multiplied "high powered money" by 5.
What did that do to inflation?

Without that the value would have exploded as happened in the great depression, so Bripat is still correct.

Without that the value would have exploded

Value of what?

 

[Rustic]

Socialism is like junk food, it appeals to ignorant shallow minded fools... Who have no commonsense, grasp of reality, and ultimately selfish...

 

[Tehon]

I don't see any socialists policing the planet to ensure access to resources.

Nice dodge. Now answer the question: Is socialism voluntary or not?

It is not a dodge. I answered in context, which you are trying to alter.

No socio/economic system is entirely voluntary.

So what?

We don't have a choice but to reproduce the means of our existence. How we go about that is dependent on the social organization of the means of production in the society we live.

Wha?

Reproduce your means of existence;
It's the things you need to survive. You have to procure water and food on a daily basis. You need clothes and shelter. Medical care. In America we use the capitalist socio economic system. That means you need money to reproduce your means of existence. You have no choice.

Sorry. But translating all the "very special" terminology used by socialists is tiresome for me. Especially when it's the source of so much equivocation.

It is a basic truth. It is our primary need. Where is the equivocation?

 

[georgephillip]

Who’s Afraid of Socialism? | Open Media Boston

I fear socialism for the same reasons I fear theocracy. It simply gives government too much power.

Democratic socialism - Wikipedia

"Democratic socialism is a political philosophy that advocates political democracy alongside social ownership of the means of production[1]with an emphasis on self-management and democratic management of economic institutions within a market or some form of decentralized planned socialist economy.[2]"

In a best case scenario, socialism would bring democracy to the workplace where most Americans spend one-third of their adult lives.

Richard Wolff is probably the most widely quoted economist on this aspect of social ownership.

Richard D. Wolff on The Worker Co-Op Solution | Grassroots Economic Organizing

"The frustration of the left, given this exhaustion of traditional socialisms' appeal, arose from having no other broadly agreed-upon vision of an attractive alternative to capitalism.

"The left could not provide what mass audiences craved as they deepened their criticisms of capitalism's longer-term decline and short-term crisis.

"Enter the notion of workers' cooperatives or, better, the awkward but more specific term: workers self-directed enterprises (WSDEs).

"This centuries-old idea has been revived, redesigned and applied to go well beyond traditional socialism.

"The result is a new vision of an alternative to capitalism that could help to mobilize a new left."

One example of self-directed enterprises occurs when the founders of a family business retire and their children are not interested in taking over the firm.

Professor Wolff and his team can provide a way for the retiring capitalists to sell their business to their employees (instead of BlackRock).

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism is like junk food, it appeals to ignorant shallow minded fools... Who have no commonsense, grasp of reality, and ultimately selfish...

Hoover Dam is hard at work every day.

 

[georgephillip]

Government can't bail anyone out without taking the money from someone else first.

Why does the US government take the money from those who have the least?

Income Inequality - Inequality.org

Why does the US government take the money from those who have the least?

Because...….stop smoking that crap, I don't care if they made it legal.

• In 2015, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.2 percent of all individual income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.
• The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (39.0 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.4 percent).
• The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 27.1 percent individual income tax rate, which is more than seven times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.6 percent).

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2017 Update

"Income disparities have become so pronounced that America’s top 10 percent now average more than nine times as much income as the bottom 90 percent. Americans in the top 1 percent tower stunningly higher.

"They average over 40 times more income than the bottom 90 percent.

"But that gap pales in comparison to the divide between the nation’s top 0.1 percent and everyone else. Americans at this lofty level are taking in over 198 times the income of the bottom 90 percent."

Income Inequality - Inequality.org

Earners in the bottom 90% are more likely to be engaged in productive employment as opposed to rigging the foreign currency exchange, and total taxes eat up a much bigger portion of their take home pay than the 0.1% fat (felonious) cats.

Government should use progressive federal and state income taxes to ensure fat cats shoulder the same total tax burden as those whose middle class jobs were shipped to Mexico and China by the richest 0.1%

 

[georgephillip]

Government can't bail anyone out without taking the money from someone else first.

Why does the US government take the money from those who have the least?

Income Inequality - Inequality.org

It doesn't, moron. Income isn't something government gives you unless you're a parasite. For most people, income is what they earn by exchanging their skills in the market. The federal government doesn't tax the bottom 50% at all, so what is it "taking" from them?

When the richest one percent of citizens bribe politicians for trade policies that send millions of middle class jobs to China and many of those jobs paid workers enough to pay income taxes, the federal government has taken the livelihood of those millions of productive workers.

 

[2aguy]

No thanks. One need not look any further than europe to see what a travesty it is.

Venezuela...where food and toilet paper are luxury items for the ruling class...

 

[bripat9643]

Government can't bail anyone out without taking the money from someone else first.

Why does the US government take the money from those who have the least?

Income Inequality - Inequality.org

Why does the US government take the money from those who have the least?

Because...….stop smoking that crap, I don't care if they made it legal.

• In 2015, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.2 percent of all individual income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.
• The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (39.0 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.4 percent).
• The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 27.1 percent individual income tax rate, which is more than seven times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.6 percent).

Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2017 Update

"Income disparities have become so pronounced that America’s top 10 percent now average more than nine times as much income as the bottom 90 percent. Americans in the top 1 percent tower stunningly higher.

"They average over 40 times more income than the bottom 90 percent.

"But that gap pales in comparison to the divide between the nation’s top 0.1 percent and everyone else. Americans at this lofty level are taking in over 198 times the income of the bottom 90 percent."

Income Inequality - Inequality.org

Earners in the bottom 90% are more likely to be engaged in productive employment as opposed to rigging the foreign currency exchange, and total taxes eat up a much bigger portion of their take home pay than the 0.1% fat (felonious) cats.

Government should use progressive federal and state income taxes to ensure fat cats shoulder the same total tax burden as those whose middle class jobs were shipped to Mexico and China by the richest 0.1%

 

[dblack]

Who’s Afraid of Socialism? | Open Media Boston

I fear socialism for the same reasons I fear theocracy. It simply gives government too much power.

Democratic socialism - Wikipedia

I fear socialism for the same reasons I fear theocracy. It simply gives government too much power.

Democracy is the problem with socialism. It's a bug, not a feature.

 

[georgephillip]

Who’s Afraid of Socialism? | Open Media Boston

I fear socialism for the same reasons I fear theocracy. It simply gives government too much power.

Democratic socialism - Wikipedia

I fear socialism for the same reasons I fear theocracy. It simply gives government too much power.

Democracy is the problem with socialism. It's a bug, not a feature.

If Democracy is a problem, what form of government would you recommend?

Tyranny, Democracy, and the Polity: Aristotle's Politics

"The true forms of government, therefore, are those in which the one, or the few, or the many, govern with a view to the common interest; but governments which rule with a view to the private interest, whether to the one, or the few, or of the many, are perversions."

 

[bripat9643]

Who’s Afraid of Socialism? | Open Media Boston

I fear socialism for the same reasons I fear theocracy. It simply gives government too much power.

Democratic socialism - Wikipedia

I fear socialism for the same reasons I fear theocracy. It simply gives government too much power.

Democracy is the problem with socialism. It's a bug, not a feature.

If Democracy is a problem, what form of government would you recommend?

Tyranny, Democracy, and the Polity: Aristotle's Politics

"The true forms of government, therefore, are those in which the one, or the few, or the many, govern with a view to the common interest; but governments which rule with a view to the private interest, whether to the one, or the few, or of the many, are perversions."

None.

 

[georgephillip]

What "current economic crisis"? The DOW is around 24000 and the GDP is around 4.1% while unemployment is at a historic low. One symptom that seems to be common in idiotic socialists is living in the past and hoping for bad news.

Why is consumer debt continuing to rise?

10 Years Later: How Has America's Consumer Debt Changed Since the Financial Crisis? -- The Motley Fool

 

[dblack]

Who’s Afraid of Socialism? | Open Media Boston

I fear socialism for the same reasons I fear theocracy. It simply gives government too much power.

Democratic socialism - Wikipedia

I fear socialism for the same reasons I fear theocracy. It simply gives government too much power.

Democracy is the problem with socialism. It's a bug, not a feature.

If Democracy is a problem, what form of government would you recommend?

I wouldn't apply government to our economic decisions at all.

Democracy is fine for social decisions that actually require conformity. When we all need to be on the same page and must agree on a singular solution, democracy's not a bad way to go.
But most of the time that kind of conformity isn't required and freedom is a better approach.