Who's Afraid of Socialism?

[bripat9643]

Yea I’d say government is a very shitty vessel for solving our problems. Individuals on the other hand are very good at it. I’m typing on a device that would’ve been considered a supercomputer in the 90s...and it fits in my palm. It’s tech making the entire globe richer, giving the impoverished worldwide access to the internet where they can participate in things like commerce and education they could not have dreamed of 10 years ago. Made by the same company that took 40 some years to be worth what our government lost track of in 10.

You should also be willing to ask the question : "What role did government play in the creation of Apple Computers?" Starting with its official corporate charter and extending through decades of taxpayer-funded (government) research and development into revolutionary technologies like the Internet, GPS, and touchscreen display.

Apple received its early stage finance from the US government's small business Investment Company program. Venture capitalists entered only after government funding had gotten Apple to the critical proof of concept stage.

Considering everything government contributed to Apple's current $1 trillion market cap, it is also shameful that Apple refuses to should its fair share of the federal tax burden, imho.

Taxpayers Helped Apple, but Apple Won’t Help Them

Whoa what is fair share? What is this amorphous, subjective term that keeps getting thrown around? At what point is fair share going to be satisfactory? In the European countries there doesn’t seem to be a satisfactory amount so taxes are constantly raised, or they realize continuously raising taxes does not help at all with job creation and they are moving right. And why is it moral to give money to a institution that LOST 1 trillion dollars since the movie the hangover was made? If that was a charity we were giving our hard earned money too, we’d be burning that bitch to the ground.

Sure apple didn’t get where they are on their own. And an interesting tidbit is that military innovation is probably the largest driver of innovation and beneficial tech for the public overall. But for that to happen, a country needs to recognize that the standard bureaucracy that politics always seems to breeds is detrimental to their military and its best to keep it out as much as possible (which many countries have). However, do you believe that if apple were in the business of whatever government dept, well say Medicare, it would be hemorrhaging as much money knowing it’s competing with google for Medicare patients and healthcare providers to use their service? If amazon ran the DMV do you think my drivers license photo would like I was ready to cry tears of rage? Faaack no. Did apple get where they are on their own. No. Did they have some help from government, sure. Was a government loan the driving force of their success, nope. What free markets do is crowd source solutions to humanities problems while rewarding the people who solve those problems. It monetizes service to humanity. After all, why are you going to pay for something that you don’t need or want? Is capatialism a perfect system, hell no. No system is, but it’s the best we have come up with. It’s not fair to capatilism to define it by the areas that is has fallen short of (areas perceived in this current tiny timeframe that’s constantly changing and improving)...but then ignore the tremendous leaps and bounds it has improved human life world wide. Read Enlightenment Now please, by Stephen Pinker, a Harvard psychologist (whose on the left so this isn’t a right wing shill propagandist). It’s absolutely nothing short of a miracle to see how far humanity has come even in the past 20 years. You will be blown away by the stats. Also Better Angels is another good one by him in the same sort of vein. Also, look up Bjorn Lomborg, he has a book (I haven’t read) but has Ted Talks, articles and videos talking about prioritizing the worlds problems and analysis and the best ways to solves them. It’s good stuff, and will show you that these free market things work pretty damn well.

It’s also important to note that the countries the likes of AOC and Bernie cite are not socialists countries. They are free market countries, with larger social programs than we have, and also larger tax rates. Real socialism is what we see in Venezuela (like 5 years ago it was heralded as a admirable success by the far left), and Cuba. Both are hell holes, and hopefully the change of leadership will help Venezuela (once a modern 1st world country with immense resources) get back in its feet. So what do you mean when you’re talking about socialism?

I think you’re simplifying world problems with an equation of government + more money = problems solved. But it’s not that simple, and government, pretty much by nature, is like a hanging flower pot where you turn the hose on full power and drench it, but only see droplets coming out of the bottom. I’m not saying government isn’t capable of any good, or doesn’t have a place. Just that you should honestly question if it is the best vessel for solving problems. Once again, it lost 1 trillion dollars. That’s a full 1/3 of what it takes in annually in tax revenue. 5% of the entire national GDP it carelessly lost in the cushions of the couch within 10 years. Is government really the best way to provide the most good? Is that going to give us the best bang for our buck?

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

Certainly one of the most developed, and the most resource rich in SA. I’m not going to argue semantics here. I’m pretty sure they meet the threshold of 1st world, but they’re much worse off now. Which is the main point

Sabotaged and sanctioned by the GOP, now Trump pushing in a new president supposedly. It's a GOP mess.

How was it "sabotaged" by the GOP? Did they put Chavez in power? Did they make him nationalize the oil industry?

 

[22lcidw]

Certainly one of the most developed, and the most resource rich in SA. I’m not going to argue semantics here. I’m pretty sure they meet the threshold of 1st world, but they’re much worse off now. Which is the main point

Sabotaged and sanctioned by the GOP, now Trump pushing in a new president supposedly. It's a GOP mess.

Ok please tell me you’re not for Maduro. It really sounds like you are.

I'm against the GOP sabotaging democratically elected governments. Especially since the Cold War has been over for 27 years.

I mean have you seen the streets of Caracas this week? I’ve never seen so many humans fill the streets...ever, honestly. It hasn’t ever crossed your mind that maybe Maduro wasn’t really democratically elected recently, and he might just be a dictator.
View attachment 241788

So because Maduro was “elected” must mean he’s a good guy? And that the new opposition leader is bad...because trump backs him?

Oooorrrr. Maybe socialism is as socialism does. Maybe it’s starts out with the best of intentions (a skeptical maybe), but it winds up sucking. And some guy promises to make it stop sucking. It still sucks, so more socialism, and more suck. Fast forward a little bit and a few hundred uppity citizens get gunned down ironically by the “national guard”. The citizens back off, and then realize the guy who took over is a tyrant but can’t do shit about it, and more suck comes and they start having to eat their pets.

Really, just let me hear you say Maduro is good for Venezuela. No more dancing around it. Is Maduro good or bad for Venezuela? You most certainly didn’t deny it. Stick to your guns, and just say it. The left has made movies and named streets after the how awesome socialist Venezuela is just a mere 5 years ago. You got to stick to your guns.

Screw Republicans and screw oligarchs, especially Venezuelan ones. Hands off Venezuela.

And it has very little to do with socialism, which is what they have in France New Zealand etc. Venezuela has always been a third world mess of a country and still is. Trump should come home like he always says he is

And yet you are the first ones to take money from the working class while lambasting the rich. You have divided this nation up so much people can not even wear a hat because it has been promoted as the worst thing since Hitler. And people fall for it. All you have done has caused more and more people to purchase weapons. And you know you have to get rid of them to complete your tyranny and do what you want completely. When hear understand this. Those African American adults who berated the Catholic teenagers, won't be needed by you anymore.

 

[sakinago]

Certainly one of the most developed, and the most resource rich in SA. I’m not going to argue semantics here. I’m pretty sure they meet the threshold of 1st world, but they’re much worse off now. Which is the main point

Sabotaged and sanctioned by the GOP, now Trump pushing in a new president supposedly. It's a GOP mess.

Ok please tell me you’re not for Maduro. It really sounds like you are.

I'm against the GOP sabotaging democratically elected governments. Especially since the Cold War has been over for 27 years.

I mean have you seen the streets of Caracas this week? I’ve never seen so many humans fill the streets...ever, honestly. It hasn’t ever crossed your mind that maybe Maduro wasn’t really democratically elected recently, and he might just be a dictator.
View attachment 241788

So because Maduro was “elected” must mean he’s a good guy? And that the new opposition leader is bad...because trump backs him?

Oooorrrr. Maybe socialism is as socialism does. Maybe it’s starts out with the best of intentions (a skeptical maybe), but it winds up sucking. And some guy promises to make it stop sucking. It still sucks, so more socialism, and more suck. Fast forward a little bit and a few hundred uppity citizens get gunned down ironically by the “national guard”. The citizens back off, and then realize the guy who took over is a tyrant but can’t do shit about it, and more suck comes and they start having to eat their pets.

Really, just let me hear you say Maduro is good for Venezuela. No more dancing around it. Is Maduro good or bad for Venezuela? You most certainly didn’t deny it. Stick to your guns, and just say it. The left has made movies and named streets after the how awesome socialist Venezuela is just a mere 5 years ago. You got to stick to your guns.

Screw Republicans and screw oligarchs, especially Venezuelan ones. Hands off Venezuela.

And it has very little to do with socialism, which is what they have in France New Zealand etc. Venezuela has always been a third world mess of a country and still is. Trump should come home like he always says he is

That’s not socialism, they are capitalist countries with larger social programs than us. And no Venezuela was not always a mess. If it was I wouldn’t be seeing episodes of parks and rec making it look like Venezuela was schooling us (yes this was an episode on parks and rec no too long ago).

Honestly it’s like the people who are for socialism are like an 8 year old taking a free throw in basketball, where every time they miss they say “no that one didn’t count,” take another shot miss and say “nope that one didn’t count either.” And then the next time when it’s supposed to be a free throw, they take the rebound off the missed shot and make a layup and say “see I told you so” (which the layup in this metaphor would be pointing to capitalistic European countries with larger social programs than we have). And then you say that doesn’t count we’re doing free throws here. And then they say well I’m changing the rules of what a free throw is. And then you say “well it’s not a free throw then.” To which they say you’re only saying that because you’re a racist (or insert whatever ad hom will get them more traction).

 

[bripat9643]

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

The gop's fault dumbass, not America every time.

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

2008 depression Ronald Reagan and his pal Saddam Nixon and his buddy the shah and his secret police etc etc. Covert action and sabotage in Iran 1953 Honduras Guatemala etc all the way through Argentina Chile all the time the GOP in power every time. Do you want a diagram?. Do you know anything? You are a total rube and GOP dupe.

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

 

[bripat9643]

Whoa what is fair share? What is this amorphous, subjective term that keeps getting thrown around? At what point is fair share going to be satisfactory? In the European countries there doesn’t seem to be a satisfactory amount so taxes are constantly raised, or they realize continuously raising taxes does not help at all with job creation and they are moving right. And why is it moral to give money to a institution that LOST 1 trillion dollars since the movie the hangover was made? If that was a charity we were giving our hard earned money too, we’d be burning that bitch to the ground.

Sure apple didn’t get where they are on their own. And an interesting tidbit is that military innovation is probably the largest driver of innovation and beneficial tech for the public overall. But for that to happen, a country needs to recognize that the standard bureaucracy that politics always seems to breeds is detrimental to their military and its best to keep it out as much as possible (which many countries have). However, do you believe that if apple were in the business of whatever government dept, well say Medicare, it would be hemorrhaging as much money knowing it’s competing with google for Medicare patients and healthcare providers to use their service? If amazon ran the DMV do you think my drivers license photo would like I was ready to cry tears of rage? Faaack no. Did apple get where they are on their own. No. Did they have some help from government, sure. Was a government loan the driving force of their success, nope. What free markets do is crowd source solutions to humanities problems while rewarding the people who solve those problems. It monetizes service to humanity. After all, why are you going to pay for something that you don’t need or want? Is capatialism a perfect system, hell no. No system is, but it’s the best we have come up with. It’s not fair to capatilism to define it by the areas that is has fallen short of (areas perceived in this current tiny timeframe that’s constantly changing and improving)...but then ignore the tremendous leaps and bounds it has improved human life world wide. Read Enlightenment Now please, by Stephen Pinker, a Harvard psychologist (whose on the left so this isn’t a right wing shill propagandist). It’s absolutely nothing short of a miracle to see how far humanity has come even in the past 20 years. You will be blown away by the stats. Also Better Angels is another good one by him in the same sort of vein. Also, look up Bjorn Lomborg, he has a book (I haven’t read) but has Ted Talks, articles and videos talking about prioritizing the worlds problems and analysis and the best ways to solves them. It’s good stuff, and will show you that these free market things work pretty damn well.

It’s also important to note that the countries the likes of AOC and Bernie cite are not socialists countries. They are free market countries, with larger social programs than we have, and also larger tax rates. Real socialism is what we see in Venezuela (like 5 years ago it was heralded as a admirable success by the far left), and Cuba. Both are hell holes, and hopefully the change of leadership will help Venezuela (once a modern 1st world country with immense resources) get back in its feet. So what do you mean when you’re talking about socialism?

I think you’re simplifying world problems with an equation of government + more money = problems solved. But it’s not that simple, and government, pretty much by nature, is like a hanging flower pot where you turn the hose on full power and drench it, but only see droplets coming out of the bottom. I’m not saying government isn’t capable of any good, or doesn’t have a place. Just that you should honestly question if it is the best vessel for solving problems. Once again, it lost 1 trillion dollars. That’s a full 1/3 of what it takes in annually in tax revenue. 5% of the entire national GDP it carelessly lost in the cushions of the couch within 10 years. Is government really the best way to provide the most good? Is that going to give us the best bang for our buck?

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

Certainly one of the most developed, and the most resource rich in SA. I’m not going to argue semantics here. I’m pretty sure they meet the threshold of 1st world, but they’re much worse off now. Which is the main point

Sabotaged and sanctioned by the GOP, now Trump pushing in a new president supposedly. It's a GOP mess.

Ok please tell me you’re not for Maduro. It really sounds like you are.

I'm against the GOP sabotaging democratically elected governments. Especially since the Cold War has been over for 27 years.

Which "democratically elected governments" did the GOP sabotage? Please name one and explain how we sabotaged it.

 

[sakinago]

Y

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

The gop's fault dumbass, not America every time.

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

2008 depression Ronald Reagan and his pal Saddam Nixon and his buddy the shah and his secret police etc etc. Covert action and sabotage in Iran 1953 Honduras Guatemala etc all the way through Argentina Chile all the time the GOP in power every time. Do you want a diagram?. Do you know anything? You are a total rube and GOP dupe.

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

Didn’t we also give them like 4 billion for “oil development” in 2012? Copperfield ain’t got shit on making things disappear compared to Venezuela.

 

[bripat9643]

Who knows? That's been screwed up so bad by the GOP World depression of 2008 and Trump's sabotage, who knows? How about leaving other countries alone?

Certainly one of the most developed, and the most resource rich in SA. I’m not going to argue semantics here. I’m pretty sure they meet the threshold of 1st world, but they’re much worse off now. Which is the main point

Sabotaged and sanctioned by the GOP, now Trump pushing in a new president supposedly. It's a GOP mess.

Ok please tell me you’re not for Maduro. It really sounds like you are.

I'm against the GOP sabotaging democratically elected governments. Especially since the Cold War has been over for 27 years.

I mean have you seen the streets of Caracas this week? I’ve never seen so many humans fill the streets...ever, honestly. It hasn’t ever crossed your mind that maybe Maduro wasn’t really democratically elected recently, and he might just be a dictator.
View attachment 241788

So because Maduro was “elected” must mean he’s a good guy? And that the new opposition leader is bad...because trump backs him?

Oooorrrr. Maybe socialism is as socialism does. Maybe it’s starts out with the best of intentions (a skeptical maybe), but it winds up sucking. And some guy promises to make it stop sucking. It still sucks, so more socialism, and more suck. Fast forward a little bit and a few hundred uppity citizens get gunned down ironically by the “national guard”. The citizens back off, and then realize the guy who took over is a tyrant but can’t do shit about it, and more suck comes and they start having to eat their pets.

Really, just let me hear you say Maduro is good for Venezuela. No more dancing around it. Is Maduro good or bad for Venezuela? You most certainly didn’t deny it. Stick to your guns, and just say it. The left has made movies and named streets after the how awesome socialist Venezuela is just a mere 5 years ago. You got to stick to your guns.

We should leave other countries alone, as only Republicans can't do that. They're a catastrophe. The GOP screwed up the world's economy in 2008 and Trump has been screwing with Venezuela's since he got in. And the Venezuelan oligarchy are complete assholes. let democracy reign.

You can't blame everything on the 2008 recession, especially not Venezuela. Do you recall the price of gas back them? It went over $4.00/gal. Venezuela was raking in the mazuma. How did the GOP screw up the entire world economy? What has Trump done to Venezuela? Not a thing, as far as I'm aware. He hasn't imposed any tariffs or sanctions on them.

It's obvious that your just spouting off random excuses in the hope that someone will fall for one.

 

[bripat9643]

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

The gop's fault dumbass, not America every time.

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

2008 depression Ronald Reagan and his pal Saddam Nixon and his buddy the shah and his secret police etc etc. Covert action and sabotage in Iran 1953 Honduras Guatemala etc all the way through Argentina Chile all the time the GOP in power every time. Do you want a diagram?. Do you know anything? You are a total rube and GOP dupe.

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

Didn’t we also give them like 4 billion for “oil development” in 2012? Copperfield ain’t got shit on making things disappear compared to Venezuela.

I don't think so. I think we loaned Brazil some money for that though.

 

[bripat9643]

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

The gop's fault dumbass, not America every time.

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

Time for you to watch PBS and learn about dictatorships Tama Manley about Mussolini tonight.

I have watched PBS. That's how I learned that it lies all the time. You keep spouting buzzwords, but you can't explain how the GOP "sabotaged" Venezuela, Argentina or Chile.

 

[Tehon]

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

The gop's fault dumbass, not America every time.

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

2008 depression Ronald Reagan and his pal Saddam Nixon and his buddy the shah and his secret police etc etc. Covert action and sabotage in Iran 1953 Honduras Guatemala etc all the way through Argentina Chile all the time the GOP in power every time. Do you want a diagram?. Do you know anything? You are a total rube and GOP dupe.

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

They were having a crisis of capital. Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yep, it was a wreck mostly because Allende wrecked it.

Venezuela did not do fine under Chavez. The food problems had already begun. Furthermore, the guy before Chavez was also a communist.

The one thing you can't deny is that under free market capitalism Venezuela flourished. Under socialism, the people starve.

Communists are dictators, these people were all elected. Iran 1953, Argentina Chile and Venezuela any minute. All sabotaged totally by the GOP. See also Honduras El Salvador Guatemala Mexico etcetera etcetera

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

Is Fox not mention it? Trump is doing it to Venezuela today. Sanctions and tariffs and covert action everywhere, dumbass. Just like Kissinger did with Argentina and chili and everywhere else. Wake up and smell the coffee. They just wanted to elect their own government. And they were not communist. Democratic Socialist and not Chumps for the GOP. Not America, the GOP piece of s***. Read a history book. The GOP has been grabbing money from people around the world since Teddy Roosevelt and McKinley and Hawaii. Military adventures in the Dominican Republic Cuba Mexico El Salvador Honduras and on and on. Under the GOP. Got it dumbass? And now Trump is doing the worst we've done in sometime, or at least trying to.

And it was the GOP under George W bush that wrecked the world economy in 2008 and made all this stuff worse. It's like the GOP World depression of 1929 that led to chaos and Hitler and Japanese militarists and on and on. Your party is a disgrace and disaster and so are you.

ROFL! What "covert action?" What tariffs did he impost on Venezuela? If socialism is such a superior system, then why does every economic hiccup in the USA wreck it?

It's a wonder how you leftwing idiots rationalize the repeated failure of your schemes. It's always someone else's fault.

No one is fooled.

2008 was a hiccup? Brainwashed functional moron. it cost trillions to avert a full-scale depression. And a lot of places didn't have the money.

Google it I'm not your mother, or try watching some real news.

. it cost trillions to avert a full-scale depression. And a lot of places didn't have the money.

Bush cause a real estate bubble in Venezuela?
LOL!

 

[georgephillip]

Most of the health insurance companies that the left-wing are so fond of complaining about, are non-profit.

Kaiser Foundation Health Plan
Kaiser Foundation Hospitals
Blue Cross and Blue Shield
Primera
Highmark
Affinity
and hundreds of others are all non-profit.

They still make a profit.

And how do those health care corporations "earn" their (non) profits? Answer: by denying needed medical procedures to their clients in order to enhance shareholder value.

U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World

 

[georgephillip]

. it cost trillions to avert a full-scale depression. And a lot of places didn't have the money.

Bush cause a real estate bubble in Venezuela?
LOL!

Trump did even worse

Trump’s Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela US$6bn Since August 2017

 

[georgephillip]

Who's your top pick for economic's expert?

Milton Friedman is pretty good.

I thought you were a believer in free markets? The first thing the Chicago School did in Chile was close down every economics department in the country except for their chosen seminary at the Catholic University. They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint. Apparently, Friedman's "free markets" require totalitarian control?

"They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint."

Horseshit. Have got any credible sources to support that?

As if you care:

Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile - Wikipedia

"Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile were the crimes against humanity, persecution of opponents, political repression and state terrorism committed by the Chilean Armed Forces, members of Carabineros de Chile and civil repressive agents members of a secret police, during the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet in Chile from September 11, 1973, until March 11, 1990.

"According to the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation (Rettig Commission) and the National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture (Valech Commission), the number of direct victims of human rights violations in Chile accounts for around 30,000 people: 27,255 tortured and 2,279 executed.

"In addition, some 200,000 people suffered exile and an unknown number went through clandestine centers and illegal detention.[citation needed]"

You do realize that socialists murdered millions on millions, right? That doesn't mean that Pinochet wasn't committing crimes. Surely he was.

But if you think that this makes the case the left-wingers have been better on human rights.... you are beyond uninformed, you are a blithering idiot.

I am aware of mass murders committed by socialists like Stalin and Mao. Are you attentive to the hundreds of million murdered by capitalism over the past five centuries?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1462394042000326879?src=recsys&journalCode=riac20

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Whoa what is fair share? What is this amorphous, subjective term that keeps getting thrown around? At what point is fair share going to be satisfactory? In the European countries there doesn’t seem to be a satisfactory amount so taxes are constantly raised, or they realize continuously raising taxes does not help at all with job creation and they are moving right. And why is it moral to give money to a institution that LOST 1 trillion dollars since the movie the hangover was made? If that was a charity we were giving our hard earned money too, we’d be burning that bitch to the ground.

Sure apple didn’t get where they are on their own. And an interesting tidbit is that military innovation is probably the largest driver of innovation and beneficial tech for the public overall. But for that to happen, a country needs to recognize that the standard bureaucracy that politics always seems to breeds is detrimental to their military and its best to keep it out as much as possible (which many countries have). However, do you believe that if apple were in the business of whatever government dept, well say Medicare, it would be hemorrhaging as much money knowing it’s competing with google for Medicare patients and healthcare providers to use their service? If amazon ran the DMV do you think my drivers license photo would like I was ready to cry tears of rage? Faaack no. Did apple get where they are on their own. No. Did they have some help from government, sure. Was a government loan the driving force of their success, nope. What free markets do is crowd source solutions to humanities problems while rewarding the people who solve those problems. It monetizes service to humanity. After all, why are you going to pay for something that you don’t need or want? Is capatialism a perfect system, hell no. No system is, but it’s the best we have come up with. It’s not fair to capatilism to define it by the areas that is has fallen short of (areas perceived in this current tiny timeframe that’s constantly changing and improving)...but then ignore the tremendous leaps and bounds it has improved human life world wide. Read Enlightenment Now please, by Stephen Pinker, a Harvard psychologist (whose on the left so this isn’t a right wing shill propagandist). It’s absolutely nothing short of a miracle to see how far humanity has come even in the past 20 years. You will be blown away by the stats. Also Better Angels is another good one by him in the same sort of vein. Also, look up Bjorn Lomborg, he has a book (I haven’t read) but has Ted Talks, articles and videos talking about prioritizing the worlds problems and analysis and the best ways to solves them. It’s good stuff, and will show you that these free market things work pretty damn well.

It’s also important to note that the countries the likes of AOC and Bernie cite are not socialists countries. They are free market countries, with larger social programs than we have, and also larger tax rates. Real socialism is what we see in Venezuela (like 5 years ago it was heralded as a admirable success by the far left), and Cuba. Both are hell holes, and hopefully the change of leadership will help Venezuela (once a modern 1st world country with immense resources) get back in its feet. So what do you mean when you’re talking about socialism?

I think you’re simplifying world problems with an equation of government + more money = problems solved. But it’s not that simple, and government, pretty much by nature, is like a hanging flower pot where you turn the hose on full power and drench it, but only see droplets coming out of the bottom. I’m not saying government isn’t capable of any good, or doesn’t have a place. Just that you should honestly question if it is the best vessel for solving problems. Once again, it lost 1 trillion dollars. That’s a full 1/3 of what it takes in annually in tax revenue. 5% of the entire national GDP it carelessly lost in the cushions of the couch within 10 years. Is government really the best way to provide the most good? Is that going to give us the best bang for our buck?

Venezuela was never a first world country, idiot. They were an incredibly corrupt oligarchy. The 1% was first world Maybe.

Certainly one of the most developed, and the most resource rich in SA. I’m not going to argue semantics here. I’m pretty sure they meet the threshold of 1st world, but they’re much worse off now. Which is the main point

Sabotaged and sanctioned by the GOP, now Trump pushing in a new president supposedly. It's a GOP mess.

Ok please tell me you’re not for Maduro. It really sounds like you are.

I'm against the GOP sabotaging democratically elected governments. Especially since the Cold War has been over for 27 years.

Especially since the Cold War has been over for 27 years.

Have you been crying yourself to sleep ever since the USSR fell apart?

 

[georgephillip]

Do you want a large company creating billions in wealth for the whole country? Or a non-profit producing millions?

Why did all of Obamas health care co-ops all fail? Because in general for-profit companies do better.

First of all, large companies create billions in wealth, but they don't distribute that wealth to the whole country. They distribute the vast bulk of those billions to a fraction of the richest one percent of the whole country.

Obama's health care initiatives failed because he once again turned to capitalist whores like Liz Fowler to design his for-profit business interests.
"Obamacare architect leaves White House for pharmaceutical industry job
Glenn Greenwald...

Obamacare architect leaves White House for pharmaceutical industry job | Glenn Greenwald

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You mean they don't become communists until they manage to establish a dictatorship? Somehow I don't find that claim very compelling.

We know it's all America's fault. Isn't everything bad in the world our fault? How did the GOP "sabotage" Chile, Argentina or Venezuela?

The gop's fault dumbass, not America every time.

How was it the GOP's fault, asshole?

2008 depression Ronald Reagan and his pal Saddam Nixon and his buddy the shah and his secret police etc etc. Covert action and sabotage in Iran 1953 Honduras Guatemala etc all the way through Argentina Chile all the time the GOP in power every time. Do you want a diagram?. Do you know anything? You are a total rube and GOP dupe.

You failed to name any specific actions against Venezuela, Argentina or Chile. Furthermore, Venezuela didn't start going South in 2008, and the price of oil was sky high then. It really started tanking about 5 years ago. You know, right in the middle of Obama's miraculous recovery. They were going down while we were going up.

You're excuses for the failure of socialism just don't wash.

They were having a crisis of capital. Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Their currency was worthless. That is a failure of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't run the printing presses that's the government (central bank).

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

. it cost trillions to avert a full-scale depression. And a lot of places didn't have the money.

Bush cause a real estate bubble in Venezuela?
LOL!

Trump did even worse

Trump’s Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela US$6bn Since August 2017

Trump caused a real estate bubble in Venezuela?

 

[Flash]

Who is afraid of Socialism?

The millions of people in Venezuela who are today trying to overthrow the destructive Socialist government that has almost destroyed their country.

Those people and the millions of people that have already fled from the evils of Socialism.

The very kind of government the filthy ass Democrats would love to have here in this country. The Democrats are obsessed with making America a Socialist shithole so they can get their free stuff like having somebody else pay their heath care bills. Getting free stuff until the money that was made under capitalism, individual liberty and a free market runs out.

Only an idiot wants to give up their liberty to become a slave of the socialist state. Either an idiot or a greedy little asshole that thinks they are entitled to free shit simply because they are alive.

 

[Andylusion]

Let's have a link to all that violence Allende caused, you incredibly brainwashed moron....

Here ya go, douchebag:

Augusto Pinochet hero « The Historical Truth Project

You really love garbage propaganda don't you? What an a****** Pinochet was total a******. Kind of like Kissinger and Nixon

Pinochet was a hero. Allende and the commies who supported him were the assholes. They were trying to convert Chile into a Soviet client state. They deserved everything they got.

Nothing you know is true. sounds just like you do with Hillary and Obama --the charges are coming!! idiot.

I was thinking exactly the same thing about you, Franco. Everyone does. Everything you post is a lie.

Pretty much. Everything that Franco posts, thus far, has been lies.