Who's Afraid of Socialism?

[georgephillip]

Which four million refugees are you referring to?

3 million people have fled Venezuela, says UNHCR | News ...
https://www.dw.com/en/3-million-people-have-fled-venezuela-says...
The number of migrants and refugees who have fled Venezuela has reached 3 million, the United Nations announced on Thursday.

How many people have fled Venezuela?
At least 500,000 people have fled Venezuela this year. That's the lowest estimate around. Colombia says that over a million of them are living there now. Venezuelans have been trickling out of the country for at least 10 years.

Do you think additional US sanctions will reduce the flow of refugees from Venezuela?
"Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

• The Trump administration announces sanctions against Venezuela's state-owned energy company PDVSA.
• The sanctions aim to transfer control of Venezuela's oil wealth to the forces that oppose socialist dictator Nicolas Maduro.
• U.S. companies can continue to import oil from Venezuela, but the funds must be held in accounts that are not accessible to the Maduro regime."

Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

The US has been funding Venezuelan opposition since Chavez was first elected in 1999.

Currently, Maduro has popularity numbers about equal to Trump's. During the last presidential election about 6 miilion votes went to Maduro and zero votes went to Juan Guaido whom a majority of Venezuelans had never heard of before he proclaimed himself president.

Does that sound like a coup, to you?

ROFL! So you believe the state controlled propaganda organs of the Maduro regime?

Do you actually believe that Maduro is popular with people who are starving?

"Nicolás Maduro Fast Facts"

Nicolás Maduro Fast Facts - CNN

"August 4, 2018 - Survives an apparent assassination attempt after several drones armed with explosives fly toward him during a speech at a military parade. Maduro blames the attack on far-right elements and Colombia's outgoing president, Juan Manuel Santos. A Colombian presidential source tells CNN that Maduro's accusations are 'baseless.'

"August 5, 2018 - Venezuela's Interior Minister Néstor Reverol says that six people have been arrested after the apparent assassination attempt on Maduro.

"September 8, 2018 - A report is published in the New York Times detailing secret meetings between US officials and Venezuelan military officers planning a coup against Maduro. CNN confirms the report, which describes a series of meetings over the course of a year. Ultimately, the US government decided not to back the coup."

There are far more Venezuelans who support Maduro than there are Venezuelans who support another US coup in South America.

There are far more Venezuelans who support Maduro than there are Venezuelans who support another US coup in South America.

Of course, they support the hell out of him. DURR.

There are far more Venezuelans who support Maduro than there are Venezuelans who support another US coup in South America.

Of course, they support the hell out of him. DURR.

Why do you support Trump?

"President Trump’s 2017 threat of military action in Venezuela may have caused further headache to nations who considered recognizing Guaidó over the past few days.

"Last year, 10 South American leaders publicly rejected 'the exercise of violence, threat, or use of force in Venezuela.'

"At the time, they were joined by Canada, which also signed the statement.

"In its recognition announcement of Guaidó, Canada’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Chrystia Freeland made sure to reiterate those concerns last week, writing that 'a resolution of the crisis in Venezuela can only be achieved through the leadership and courage of Venezuelans themselves.'"

Analysis | The divide on Venezuela: Who’s supporting Maduro, and who’s following the U.S. lead in recognizing Guaidó

 

[bripat9643]

3 million people have fled Venezuela, says UNHCR | News ...
https://www.dw.com/en/3-million-people-have-fled-venezuela-says...
The number of migrants and refugees who have fled Venezuela has reached 3 million, the United Nations announced on Thursday.

How many people have fled Venezuela?
At least 500,000 people have fled Venezuela this year. That's the lowest estimate around. Colombia says that over a million of them are living there now. Venezuelans have been trickling out of the country for at least 10 years.

Do you think additional US sanctions will reduce the flow of refugees from Venezuela?
"Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

• The Trump administration announces sanctions against Venezuela's state-owned energy company PDVSA.
• The sanctions aim to transfer control of Venezuela's oil wealth to the forces that oppose socialist dictator Nicolas Maduro.
• U.S. companies can continue to import oil from Venezuela, but the funds must be held in accounts that are not accessible to the Maduro regime."

Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

The US has been funding Venezuelan opposition since Chavez was first elected in 1999.

Currently, Maduro has popularity numbers about equal to Trump's. During the last presidential election about 6 miilion votes went to Maduro and zero votes went to Juan Guaido whom a majority of Venezuelans had never heard of before he proclaimed himself president.

Does that sound like a coup, to you?

ROFL! So you believe the state controlled propaganda organs of the Maduro regime?

Do you actually believe that Maduro is popular with people who are starving?

"Nicolás Maduro Fast Facts"

Nicolás Maduro Fast Facts - CNN

"August 4, 2018 - Survives an apparent assassination attempt after several drones armed with explosives fly toward him during a speech at a military parade. Maduro blames the attack on far-right elements and Colombia's outgoing president, Juan Manuel Santos. A Colombian presidential source tells CNN that Maduro's accusations are 'baseless.'

"August 5, 2018 - Venezuela's Interior Minister Néstor Reverol says that six people have been arrested after the apparent assassination attempt on Maduro.

"September 8, 2018 - A report is published in the New York Times detailing secret meetings between US officials and Venezuelan military officers planning a coup against Maduro. CNN confirms the report, which describes a series of meetings over the course of a year. Ultimately, the US government decided not to back the coup."

There are far more Venezuelans who support Maduro than there are Venezuelans who support another US coup in South America.

There are far more Venezuelans who support Maduro than there are Venezuelans who support another US coup in South America.

Of course, they support the hell out of him. DURR.

There are far more Venezuelans who support Maduro than there are Venezuelans who support another US coup in South America.

Of course, they support the hell out of him. DURR.

Why do you support Trump?

"President Trump’s 2017 threat of military action in Venezuela may have caused further headache to nations who considered recognizing Guaidó over the past few days.

"Last year, 10 South American leaders publicly rejected 'the exercise of violence, threat, or use of force in Venezuela.'

"At the time, they were joined by Canada, which also signed the statement.

"In its recognition announcement of Guaidó, Canada’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Chrystia Freeland made sure to reiterate those concerns last week, writing that 'a resolution of the crisis in Venezuela can only be achieved through the leadership and courage of Venezuelans themselves.'"

Analysis | The divide on Venezuela: Who’s supporting Maduro, and who’s following the U.S. lead in recognizing Guaidó

Trump hasn't threatened military action in Venezuela, dumbass.

 

[georgephillip]

3 million people have fled Venezuela, says UNHCR | News ...
https://www.dw.com/en/3-million-people-have-fled-venezuela-says...
The number of migrants and refugees who have fled Venezuela has reached 3 million, the United Nations announced on Thursday.

How many people have fled Venezuela?
At least 500,000 people have fled Venezuela this year. That's the lowest estimate around. Colombia says that over a million of them are living there now. Venezuelans have been trickling out of the country for at least 10 years.

Do you think additional US sanctions will reduce the flow of refugees from Venezuela?
"Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

• The Trump administration announces sanctions against Venezuela's state-owned energy company PDVSA.
• The sanctions aim to transfer control of Venezuela's oil wealth to the forces that oppose socialist dictator Nicolas Maduro.
• U.S. companies can continue to import oil from Venezuela, but the funds must be held in accounts that are not accessible to the Maduro regime."

Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

The US has been funding Venezuelan opposition since Chavez was first elected in 1999.

Currently, Maduro has popularity numbers about equal to Trump's. During the last presidential election about 6 miilion votes went to Maduro and zero votes went to Juan Guaido whom a majority of Venezuelans had never heard of before he proclaimed himself president.

Does that sound like a coup, to you?

ROFL! So you believe the state controlled propaganda organs of the Maduro regime?

Do you actually believe that Maduro is popular with people who are starving?

I don't believe the Western corporate media.

Abby Martin visited Venezuela this past year. She tells a different story than what the corporate media is telling. She says that Maduro still has a lot of support among the poor people living in Venezuela.

Abby Martin has reportedly been threatened with lynching by the so-called "peaceful" opposition in Venezuela:

"CHILE — The U.S.-backed right-wing opposition in Venezuela is consistently described as 'peaceful,' protesting non-violently against the leftist regime of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro, who mainstream media throughout the Americas and the world consider an autocrat, or dictator who is hell-bent on accumulating more power.

"However, the Venezuelan opposition has proven themselves to be anything but peaceful, especially in recent weeks.

"Late last month (5/2017), a mob of around 40 opposition protesters were caught on video beating 21-year-old Orlando José Figuera, then dousing him with gasoline and lighting him on fire after he was accused of being a 'Chavista infiltrator.'"

Venezuelan Opposition Threatens To Lynch American Journalist Abby Martin

It sounds like he got what he deserve. Maduro has killed thousands of Venezuelans.Abby Martin is a 9/11 truther. She sounds like a fucking commie. I won't shed any tears the day she is killed.

The time for peaceful protests in Venezuela is over. What the opposition needs is military grade weapons.

Venezuela 2017/2018

"Venezuela remained in a state of emergency, repeatedly extended since January 2016.

"A National Constituent Assembly was elected without the participation of the opposition.

"The Attorney General was dismissed under irregular circumstances.

"Security forces continued to use excessive and undue force to disperse protests. Hundreds of people were arbitrarily detained.

"There were many reports of torture and other ill-treatment, including sexual violence against demonstrators.

"The judicial system continued to be used to silence dissidents, including using military jurisdiction to prosecute civilians.

"Human rights defenders were harassed, intimidated and subject to raids. Conditions of detention were extremely harsh.

"The food and health crises continued to worsen, especially affecting children, people with chronic illness and pregnant women.

"The number of Venezuelans seeking asylum in other countries increased."

Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017

Capitalism to the rescue.

 

[Muhammed]

The Norks

 

[Tehon]

It is no big deal that you haven't studied Marx. I haven't crossed paths with any here who have, that I am aware of.
I just don't know why you are making an argument against something you don't understand. And have the audacity to call me arrogant.

Marx breaks value down into different forms. I assume you would be asking who determines the exchange value. That would be determined by the socially necessary labor time needed to produce the commodity.

By “haven’t studied” I mean my professor didn’t preform fellatio on Karl Marx’s or Hegels ghosts for the entire Mod WestCiv course. We still went over them, I still got A’s in entirly written exams.

And uh huh, but someone still has to be the judge of that. Apparently a free marketplace where society and the laws of supply and demand don’t do a good enough job of that. So would the judge, or “society” as you put it have to be ultimately determined by government in the end?

It is intrinsic in the production process. Are you suggesting that government would manipulate it somehow? What would be the point?

"Intinsic?" What the fuck does that mean? What is the value of an ounce of gold or a gallon of gas? How does the socialist economy determine that without market where they are bought and sold by private owners?

Definition of intrinsic
1a: belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing

What is the weight in gold that can be mined in an hour given the current technology? Value could be determined by that.

But it's not. The chart below shows the price of gold over time. The amount that can be mined in an hour has hardly changed.

Price is something separate from value. Price is determined in the market. Your graph shows how irrational it can be.

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value? Do you like irrationality? Do you enjoy going to the gas station and seeing what the price of gas will be from day to day? Or food items at the grocery store?

 

[JWBooth]

“It's not an error to say that #socialism, or non-market planning and allocation of resources, has not worked historically, but it reinforces the illusion of it being a fixable problem. The fact is that socialism *cannot* work, which means it never will. #calculationproblem #Mises” Per Bylund

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

3 million people have fled Venezuela, says UNHCR | News ...
https://www.dw.com/en/3-million-people-have-fled-venezuela-says...
The number of migrants and refugees who have fled Venezuela has reached 3 million, the United Nations announced on Thursday.

How many people have fled Venezuela?
At least 500,000 people have fled Venezuela this year. That's the lowest estimate around. Colombia says that over a million of them are living there now. Venezuelans have been trickling out of the country for at least 10 years.

Do you think additional US sanctions will reduce the flow of refugees from Venezuela?
"Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

• The Trump administration announces sanctions against Venezuela's state-owned energy company PDVSA.
• The sanctions aim to transfer control of Venezuela's oil wealth to the forces that oppose socialist dictator Nicolas Maduro.
• U.S. companies can continue to import oil from Venezuela, but the funds must be held in accounts that are not accessible to the Maduro regime."

Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

The US has been funding Venezuelan opposition since Chavez was first elected in 1999.

Currently, Maduro has popularity numbers about equal to Trump's. During the last presidential election about 6 miilion votes went to Maduro and zero votes went to Juan Guaido whom a majority of Venezuelans had never heard of before he proclaimed himself president.

Does that sound like a coup, to you?

ROFL! So you believe the state controlled propaganda organs of the Maduro regime?

Do you actually believe that Maduro is popular with people who are starving?

"Nicolás Maduro Fast Facts"

Nicolás Maduro Fast Facts - CNN

"August 4, 2018 - Survives an apparent assassination attempt after several drones armed with explosives fly toward him during a speech at a military parade. Maduro blames the attack on far-right elements and Colombia's outgoing president, Juan Manuel Santos. A Colombian presidential source tells CNN that Maduro's accusations are 'baseless.'

"August 5, 2018 - Venezuela's Interior Minister Néstor Reverol says that six people have been arrested after the apparent assassination attempt on Maduro.

"September 8, 2018 - A report is published in the New York Times detailing secret meetings between US officials and Venezuelan military officers planning a coup against Maduro. CNN confirms the report, which describes a series of meetings over the course of a year. Ultimately, the US government decided not to back the coup."

There are far more Venezuelans who support Maduro than there are Venezuelans who support another US coup in South America.

There are far more Venezuelans who support Maduro than there are Venezuelans who support another US coup in South America.

Of course, they support the hell out of him. DURR.

There are far more Venezuelans who support Maduro than there are Venezuelans who support another US coup in South America.

Of course, they support the hell out of him. DURR.

Why do you support Trump?

"President Trump’s 2017 threat of military action in Venezuela may have caused further headache to nations who considered recognizing Guaidó over the past few days.

"Last year, 10 South American leaders publicly rejected 'the exercise of violence, threat, or use of force in Venezuela.'

"At the time, they were joined by Canada, which also signed the statement.

"In its recognition announcement of Guaidó, Canada’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Chrystia Freeland made sure to reiterate those concerns last week, writing that 'a resolution of the crisis in Venezuela can only be achieved through the leadership and courage of Venezuelans themselves.'"

Analysis | The divide on Venezuela: Who’s supporting Maduro, and who’s following the U.S. lead in recognizing Guaidó

You should take a cue from millions of Venezuelans and flee the country.
Let us know how Mexico works out for you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

By “haven’t studied” I mean my professor didn’t preform fellatio on Karl Marx’s or Hegels ghosts for the entire Mod WestCiv course. We still went over them, I still got A’s in entirly written exams.

And uh huh, but someone still has to be the judge of that. Apparently a free marketplace where society and the laws of supply and demand don’t do a good enough job of that. So would the judge, or “society” as you put it have to be ultimately determined by government in the end?

It is intrinsic in the production process. Are you suggesting that government would manipulate it somehow? What would be the point?

"Intinsic?" What the fuck does that mean? What is the value of an ounce of gold or a gallon of gas? How does the socialist economy determine that without market where they are bought and sold by private owners?

Definition of intrinsic
1a: belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing

What is the weight in gold that can be mined in an hour given the current technology? Value could be determined by that.

But it's not. The chart below shows the price of gold over time. The amount that can be mined in an hour has hardly changed.

Price is something separate from value. Price is determined in the market. Your graph shows how irrational it can be.

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value? Do you like irrationality? Do you enjoy going to the gas station and seeing what the price of gas will be from day to day? Or food items at the grocery store?

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value?

How many hours of labor at how many different wage levels went into the gallon of gas I buy?
Or is every hour of every worker worth exactly the same amount?

Do you enjoy going to the gas station and seeing what the price of gas will be from day to day?

It does have its advantages over seeing the price of gas in East Germany....where the waiting list for a car was 12 years or more.

Or food items at the grocery store?

Yeah, you don't want to get me started on food in Commie countries.....how's that Maduro diet?

 

[danielpalos]

It is no big deal that you haven't studied Marx. I haven't crossed paths with any here who have, that I am aware of.
I just don't know why you are making an argument against something you don't understand. And have the audacity to call me arrogant.

Marx breaks value down into different forms. I assume you would be asking who determines the exchange value. That would be determined by the socially necessary labor time needed to produce the commodity.

That's obvious bullshit. Take two oranges. One was harvested before a major frost. The other was harvest after a major frost. The later orange sells for several times the price of the first orange. How does your theory of "socially necessary labor time" account for that when the labor that went into each of them is identical?

And here we go. You like oranges, don't you?

You are comparing apples and oranges, lol. The latter orange wouldn't sell for twice the price in my theory. The price would be the same for either orange, given the same amount of labor was used. And assuming it was fit for sale.

Actually it would, only most of them would be sold on the black market because no smart farmer is going to hand his oranges over to the produce Kommissar for 1/4 of what he could get. That's how things worked in the USSR. Most produce was sold on the black market.

The USSR didn't have a socialist system of production. They didn't eliminate capital nor did they have the technological capability to carry it out.

Yeah, yeah, I know. No system that has ever been tried is truly socialist. That's because the harder a society tries to move towards "true socialism," the more they starve.

the same can be said of "true capitalism". The first world has the socialism of mixed market economies, command economics, and even a central bank.

 

[danielpalos]

“It's not an error to say that #socialism, or non-market planning and allocation of resources, has not worked historically, but it reinforces the illusion of it being a fixable problem. The fact is that socialism *cannot* work, which means it never will. #calculationproblem #Mises” Per Bylund

why is the right wing for the socialism of a wartime economy? command economics is mostly just socialism.

 

[bripat9643]

Do you think additional US sanctions will reduce the flow of refugees from Venezuela?
"Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

• The Trump administration announces sanctions against Venezuela's state-owned energy company PDVSA.
• The sanctions aim to transfer control of Venezuela's oil wealth to the forces that oppose socialist dictator Nicolas Maduro.
• U.S. companies can continue to import oil from Venezuela, but the funds must be held in accounts that are not accessible to the Maduro regime."

Treasury sanctions Venezuela state-owned oil firm in bid to transfer control to Maduro opposition

The US has been funding Venezuelan opposition since Chavez was first elected in 1999.

Currently, Maduro has popularity numbers about equal to Trump's. During the last presidential election about 6 miilion votes went to Maduro and zero votes went to Juan Guaido whom a majority of Venezuelans had never heard of before he proclaimed himself president.

Does that sound like a coup, to you?

ROFL! So you believe the state controlled propaganda organs of the Maduro regime?

Do you actually believe that Maduro is popular with people who are starving?

I don't believe the Western corporate media.

Abby Martin visited Venezuela this past year. She tells a different story than what the corporate media is telling. She says that Maduro still has a lot of support among the poor people living in Venezuela.

Abby Martin has reportedly been threatened with lynching by the so-called "peaceful" opposition in Venezuela:

"CHILE — The U.S.-backed right-wing opposition in Venezuela is consistently described as 'peaceful,' protesting non-violently against the leftist regime of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro, who mainstream media throughout the Americas and the world consider an autocrat, or dictator who is hell-bent on accumulating more power.

"However, the Venezuelan opposition has proven themselves to be anything but peaceful, especially in recent weeks.

"Late last month (5/2017), a mob of around 40 opposition protesters were caught on video beating 21-year-old Orlando José Figuera, then dousing him with gasoline and lighting him on fire after he was accused of being a 'Chavista infiltrator.'"

Venezuelan Opposition Threatens To Lynch American Journalist Abby Martin

It sounds like he got what he deserve. Maduro has killed thousands of Venezuelans.Abby Martin is a 9/11 truther. She sounds like a fucking commie. I won't shed any tears the day she is killed.

The time for peaceful protests in Venezuela is over. What the opposition needs is military grade weapons.

Venezuela 2017/2018

"Venezuela remained in a state of emergency, repeatedly extended since January 2016.

"A National Constituent Assembly was elected without the participation of the opposition.

"The Attorney General was dismissed under irregular circumstances.

"Security forces continued to use excessive and undue force to disperse protests. Hundreds of people were arbitrarily detained.

"There were many reports of torture and other ill-treatment, including sexual violence against demonstrators.

"The judicial system continued to be used to silence dissidents, including using military jurisdiction to prosecute civilians.

"Human rights defenders were harassed, intimidated and subject to raids. Conditions of detention were extremely harsh.

"The food and health crises continued to worsen, especially affecting children, people with chronic illness and pregnant women.

"The number of Venezuelans seeking asylum in other countries increased."

Trump’s Economic Sanctions Have Cost Venezuela About $6bn Since August 2017

Capitalism to the rescue.

You're blaming capitalism for all this?

 

[bripat9643]

It is intrinsic in the production process. Are you suggesting that government would manipulate it somehow? What would be the point?

"Intinsic?" What the fuck does that mean? What is the value of an ounce of gold or a gallon of gas? How does the socialist economy determine that without market where they are bought and sold by private owners?

Definition of intrinsic
1a: belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing

What is the weight in gold that can be mined in an hour given the current technology? Value could be determined by that.

But it's not. The chart below shows the price of gold over time. The amount that can be mined in an hour has hardly changed.

Price is something separate from value. Price is determined in the market. Your graph shows how irrational it can be.

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value? Do you like irrationality? Do you enjoy going to the gas station and seeing what the price of gas will be from day to day? Or food items at the grocery store?

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value?

How many hours of labor at how many different wage levels went into the gallon of gas I buy?
Or is every hour of every worker worth exactly the same amount?

Do you enjoy going to the gas station and seeing what the price of gas will be from day to day?

It does have its advantages over seeing the price of gas in East Germany....where the waiting list for a car was 12 years or more.

Or food items at the grocery store?

Yeah, you don't want to get me started on food in Commie countries.....how's that Maduro diet?

The price of food items in Venezuela is great. The only problem: no food.

 

[bripat9643]

By “haven’t studied” I mean my professor didn’t preform fellatio on Karl Marx’s or Hegels ghosts for the entire Mod WestCiv course. We still went over them, I still got A’s in entirly written exams.

And uh huh, but someone still has to be the judge of that. Apparently a free marketplace where society and the laws of supply and demand don’t do a good enough job of that. So would the judge, or “society” as you put it have to be ultimately determined by government in the end?

It is intrinsic in the production process. Are you suggesting that government would manipulate it somehow? What would be the point?

"Intinsic?" What the fuck does that mean? What is the value of an ounce of gold or a gallon of gas? How does the socialist economy determine that without market where they are bought and sold by private owners?

Definition of intrinsic
1a: belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing

What is the weight in gold that can be mined in an hour given the current technology? Value could be determined by that.

But it's not. The chart below shows the price of gold over time. The amount that can be mined in an hour has hardly changed.

Price is something separate from value. Price is determined in the market. Your graph shows how irrational it can be.

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value? Do you like irrationality? Do you enjoy going to the gas station and seeing what the price of gas will be from day to day? Or food items at the grocery store?

If price doesn't determine value, then how do you know what the value is? What is the magic incantation that allows you to divine value?

Using price is rationality. There is no way to determine value independent of price. Any claims that it's possible are belied by the experience of places like the USSR and Cuba.

Any Venezuelan would marvel at the quantity, quality and price of the food items available at the American grocery stores. So would most Europeans, for that matter.

 

[danielpalos]

"Intinsic?" What the fuck does that mean? What is the value of an ounce of gold or a gallon of gas? How does the socialist economy determine that without market where they are bought and sold by private owners?

Definition of intrinsic
1a: belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing

What is the weight in gold that can be mined in an hour given the current technology? Value could be determined by that.

But it's not. The chart below shows the price of gold over time. The amount that can be mined in an hour has hardly changed.

Price is something separate from value. Price is determined in the market. Your graph shows how irrational it can be.

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value? Do you like irrationality? Do you enjoy going to the gas station and seeing what the price of gas will be from day to day? Or food items at the grocery store?

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value?

How many hours of labor at how many different wage levels went into the gallon of gas I buy?
Or is every hour of every worker worth exactly the same amount?

Do you enjoy going to the gas station and seeing what the price of gas will be from day to day?

It does have its advantages over seeing the price of gas in East Germany....where the waiting list for a car was 12 years or more.

Or food items at the grocery store?

Yeah, you don't want to get me started on food in Commie countries.....how's that Maduro diet?

The price of food items in Venezuela is great. The only problem: no food.

FDR came up with farm subsidies. The left comes up with solutions the right wing has nothing but excuses.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Socialism is voluntary government servitude.
It might work halfass in a small homogenious country, but not in a large diverse country like the United States.

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism is voluntary government servitude.
It might work halfass in a small homogenious country, but not in a large diverse country like the United States.

We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

Notice that the Leaders of socialism always become fabulously wealthy and powerful while they loot the middle class and they make everyone equally poor

 

[dblack]

What is so unappealing about using labor time as a sole means of determining exchange value?

It's unappealing because it squashes individual freedom. It denies the subjective nature of utility and personal preference.

I hesitate to engage you on this, because you usually play dodge 'em rather than directly defending your views, but let me ask you this. How is your conception of value "enforced"? If someone wants to trade something with someone else for a price that doesn't match your "intrinsic value" calculation, what happens? Are they arrested? Fined? What?

 

[dblack]

Notice that the Leaders of socialism always become fabulously wealthy and powerful while they loot the middle class and they make everyone equally poor

Ambition and avarice aren't eliminated under socialism. They're just channeled into government. People seeking personal wealth and power pursue careers in politics rather than business.

 

[dblack]

You're blaming capitalism for all this?

No. He's just posting articles he hasn't read without making an actual point. If he did make an explicit point or claim, he'd have to defend it.