Why are U.S. cities the epicenter of gun violence?

[2aguy]

Bullshit Moon Bat. Youare confused.

For instance, the state of North Dakota as the same number of residences as Washington DC, 1000 times more legal gun ownership and 1/50th the gun crime. If gun availability was the cause of gun crime then states like Wyoming, North Dakota, Utah etc would be the gun crime capitols of the US but they are not. The places where most of the gun crime in this country takes place are the Democrat controlled inner city shitholes with strict gun control laws.

So dishonest . Typical of gun nuts . ND is a giant empty state . DC is a city . It’s literally impossible to shoot your neighbor because they are so far away from you!!!

I challenge you to compare similar suited states .

Example . Massachusetts vs Arizona . Similar population and both have a major city . Opposite sides of gun control .

I did... Houston and Chicago, and Houston has more people carrying guns, gun stores and gun ranges and they are in a state next to the narco state of Mexico...


Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Now I know why you picked 2016 and Chicago !! It’s typical dishonest gun nut stat manipulation .

Chicago had more murders than LA and NYC combined !

And NYC had a little higher than your Houston , despite being what ? 3x the population. Of Houston ?

Busted !
Chicago's 762 homicides in 2016 is more than New York and Los Angeles combined - NY Daily News

Moron.... that doesn't bust me... it shows you are an idiot.... it shows that gun control isn't the problem... since, moron, New York, and L.A. have the exact same gun control laws as Chicago...and Chicago has a higher gun murder rate than both of them...

Gun control isn't the issue...

Then.... you compare

Houston... in a state with loose gun control. Gun stores on every corner, gun ranges to. 139,563 gun permits in the county holding Houston , in a state next to the Narco state of Mexico.

Chicago.... no gun stores in city limits. No gun ranges. Extreme gun control laws. Not next to a Narco State, and 42, 000 gun permits....

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

You lose 2A. Stop embarrassing yourself .

Chicago is an outlier . New York and Cali have tough gun laws . NYC and LA have much better murder stats than Houston when you compare per capita . Waaaaay better .

Proves that gun nut states are not safer .

You are an idiot.....

New York has better stats because Guilianni set up their police system... and de blasio is dismantling it....

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Guns dont kill people.

They don’t !? Then why bother having one ?

So guns roam the streets killing people?

Do guns roam the streets protecting people ? You can’t have it both ways if you are gonna go with the “guns don’t kill people “ logic .

Law abiding CHL licensed gun owners rarely kill someone.

Oh that’s not true ! Lots of people kill with legal guns .

Hey. I’m cool wh gun ownership and conceal carry. I just want vetting .

Dont really care if you're cool with it or not.
Inner city shitheads wont be registering their guns anyway.

 

[2aguy]

I have argued this for years, that guns don't people, cities kill people...and the concept bubbled to the surface once again in an article from liberal leaning Vox...that 60% of gun homicides occur in just 50 major US cities.

According to Pew Research, 58% of rural households have legal guns (and 75% of those more than one) while urban household gun ownership is at 29% (mostly consisting of just one gun per household).

Here are your links:
A gun debate compromise: let cities and rural areas pass different laws ,
Rural and urban gun owners have different experiences, views on gun policy

So, here's the two part question...if gun control is the answer...

1] Why do cities, despite a deficit of legal gun owners, represent far and away the highest threat of gun violence to their citizenry. (And, for the record, the answer it isn't poverty...both urban and rural citizens face equal poverty levels.)

2] Why are rural areas where guns are prevalent significantly safer from gun violence?

Keep in mind, this is a correlation, not a conclusion...if we are going to reduce gun violence, we must understand it's root causes. Obviously more legal guns does not equate to more gun violence, and less guns with more regulation does not equate to less gun violence...so what forces are actually at work here?

1.) illegal gun ownership also known as the for political gain injection of illegal weapons into Leftist doctrine of race and class warfare in practice on many of those streets.

2.) Responsible, legal gun ownership backed by hunter safety courses, etc., a take no shit attitude for pride in home and community. Self policing, responsible land ownership . . . on an on.

Something that is rarely mentioned is that even though there are more gun murders in cities, there are more gun suicides in rural areas. A lot more. And suicides don’t get the kind of publicity that murders do.

For every person murdered by a gun in the US, two die by gun suicide. The rates of gun suicide in rural areas is a lot higher than in urban centres. In some rural areas, the suicide rate is 66% higher than urban areas of the state.

There really isn’t much difference between the level of gun violence in the rural and urban areas, but rural suicides don’t get the same level of publicity or scrutiny as murders.

Not only are murder rates higher in the US than countries with gun control, so are suicide rates. Now it can be reasonably argued that people in other first world countries have better access to mental health treatment than Americans which is certainly a factor, but the easy availability of guns is also a driving factor.

CDC: Rural Americans More Likely to Die by Suicide

US than countries with gun control, so are suicide rates.


You don't know what you are talking about......

Main tables - Eurostat

May, 2014

France....14.13

Finland...14.55

Poland....15.51

Belgium....17.28

Austria....15.26


U.S.....13.00 (Products - Data Briefs - Number 241 - April 2016)

Also...



Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

 

[Timmy]

Bullshit Moon Bat. Youare confused.

For instance, the state of North Dakota as the same number of residences as Washington DC, 1000 times more legal gun ownership and 1/50th the gun crime. If gun availability was the cause of gun crime then states like Wyoming, North Dakota, Utah etc would be the gun crime capitols of the US but they are not. The places where most of the gun crime in this country takes place are the Democrat controlled inner city shitholes with strict gun control laws.

So dishonest . Typical of gun nuts . ND is a giant empty state . DC is a city . It’s literally impossible to shoot your neighbor because they are so far away from you!!!

I challenge you to compare similar suited states .

Example . Massachusetts vs Arizona . Similar population and both have a major city . Opposite sides of gun control .

I did... Houston and Chicago, and Houston has more people carrying guns, gun stores and gun ranges and they are in a state next to the narco state of Mexico...


Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Now I know why you picked 2016 and Chicago !! It’s typical dishonest gun nut stat manipulation .

Chicago had more murders than LA and NYC combined !

And NYC had a little higher than your Houston , despite being what ? 3x the population. Of Houston ?

Busted !
Chicago's 762 homicides in 2016 is more than New York and Los Angeles combined - NY Daily News

Moron.... that doesn't bust me... it shows you are an idiot.... it shows that gun control isn't the problem... since, moron, New York, and L.A. have the exact same gun control laws as Chicago...and Chicago has a higher gun murder rate than both of them...

Gun control isn't the issue...

Then.... you compare

Houston... in a state with loose gun control. Gun stores on every corner, gun ranges to. 139,563 gun permits in the county holding Houston , in a state next to the Narco state of Mexico.

Chicago.... no gun stores in city limits. No gun ranges. Extreme gun control laws. Not next to a Narco State, and 42, 000 gun permits....

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

When you add the suburbs of Houston the number swells to over 5 million.

Dude. U really want to add the burbs? Like LA and NYC metro doesn’t exist ??

Please stop.

 

[2aguy]

Bullshit Moon Bat. Youare confused.

For instance, the state of North Dakota as the same number of residences as Washington DC, 1000 times more legal gun ownership and 1/50th the gun crime. If gun availability was the cause of gun crime then states like Wyoming, North Dakota, Utah etc would be the gun crime capitols of the US but they are not. The places where most of the gun crime in this country takes place are the Democrat controlled inner city shitholes with strict gun control laws.

So dishonest . Typical of gun nuts . ND is a giant empty state . DC is a city . It’s literally impossible to shoot your neighbor because they are so far away from you!!!

I challenge you to compare similar suited states .

Example . Massachusetts vs Arizona . Similar population and both have a major city . Opposite sides of gun control .

I did... Houston and Chicago, and Houston has more people carrying guns, gun stores and gun ranges and they are in a state next to the narco state of Mexico...


Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Now I know why you picked 2016 and Chicago !! It’s typical dishonest gun nut stat manipulation .

Chicago had more murders than LA and NYC combined !

And NYC had a little higher than your Houston , despite being what ? 3x the population. Of Houston ?

Busted !
Chicago's 762 homicides in 2016 is more than New York and Los Angeles combined - NY Daily News

I picked Chicago and Houston because they are comparable with populations, and have the exact opposite gun control experiences.... you mope...

Liar!!!!

It’s the mo of the gun nut misinformist . Can’t argue anything without the outlier of Chicago .

wrong, moron....

No, states with higher gun ownership don't have more gun murders

That looks a lot like a shotgun blast, because at least in 2014, the statistical case that high state gun ownership translates to more gun homicides was non-existent. This is what happens when you just look at the relevant numbers instead of cherrypicking whatever numbers tell the story you want.

There's no significant statistical correlation here, whether or not you choose to include D.C. (the outlier, way up above the others). And in fact, when you just look at last year's gun homicide rate by state (calculated from FBI and Census data), you see that many of the states that they claim have low "gun death" rates actually have comparatively high rates of gun murders. New Jersey, for example, had a much higher gun murder rate than Idaho and Vermont.


So now you see why Vox, Mother Jones and others deliberately confuse the issue of gun violence by including gun deaths that don't involve violence: because their cherrypicking makes it seem like people in states with high gun ownership are more likely to shoot other people, when in fact it just isn't so. Perhaps there's another argument to be had about suicide, but it's a very different sort of debate. When most people think about gun control, they're worried about whether it can help stop them from being shot, not about whether it will prevent them from having a gun in case they become incredibly depressed and decide to end it all.


Obama Claims Other Countries With No Guns Safer; Here's Truth

The National Journal disproportionately excluded low-crime, pro-gun states such as Vermont, South Dakota, and Maine from its chart of homicide rates precisely because their homicide rate was low. These states have few gun laws (Vermont has the least of any state) and very low homicide rates. If you disproportionately exclude unregulated states that are safest from the calculation of which states have the lowest homicide rates, that will create the false impression that states with the most gun laws have the fewest gun deaths.


These “pro-gun” states have low homicide rates (for example, Vermont had the third lowest homicide rate in 2013, the lowest gun murder rate in 2010, and the second-lowest gun murder rate in 2007-2010. South Dakota had the fourth-lowest gun-homicide rate in 2007-2010).

But in its discussions of “Concealed Carry” and “Background Checks,” the National Journal deletes these states from its charts comparing pro-gun and anti-gun states by “Gun-related homicides per 100,000 people, by state (2013).” It deletes Vermont, South Dakota, Maine, and 8 other states (6 of which have few gun regulations) from each chart, claiming that these states had “too few homicides to calculate a reliable rate.” 9 of the 11 states excluded broadly allow concealed carry and do not impose additional background-check requirements beyond those contained in federal law. But the National Journal deliberately excluded those states, writing, “In 2013, Alaska, Idaho, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming had too few homicides to calculate a reliable rate.”

 

[2aguy]

So dishonest . Typical of gun nuts . ND is a giant empty state . DC is a city . It’s literally impossible to shoot your neighbor because they are so far away from you!!!

I challenge you to compare similar suited states .

Example . Massachusetts vs Arizona . Similar population and both have a major city . Opposite sides of gun control .

I did... Houston and Chicago, and Houston has more people carrying guns, gun stores and gun ranges and they are in a state next to the narco state of Mexico...


Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Now I know why you picked 2016 and Chicago !! It’s typical dishonest gun nut stat manipulation .

Chicago had more murders than LA and NYC combined !

And NYC had a little higher than your Houston , despite being what ? 3x the population. Of Houston ?

Busted !
Chicago's 762 homicides in 2016 is more than New York and Los Angeles combined - NY Daily News

Moron.... that doesn't bust me... it shows you are an idiot.... it shows that gun control isn't the problem... since, moron, New York, and L.A. have the exact same gun control laws as Chicago...and Chicago has a higher gun murder rate than both of them...

Gun control isn't the issue...

Then.... you compare

Houston... in a state with loose gun control. Gun stores on every corner, gun ranges to. 139,563 gun permits in the county holding Houston , in a state next to the Narco state of Mexico.

Chicago.... no gun stores in city limits. No gun ranges. Extreme gun control laws. Not next to a Narco State, and 42, 000 gun permits....

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

When you add the suburbs of Houston the number swells to over 5 million.

Dude. U really want to add the burbs? Like LA and NYC metro doesn’t exist ??

Please stop.

and more.....

You Know Less Than You Think About Guns

Do Gun Laws Stop Gun Crimes?

The same week Kristof's column came out, National Journal attracted major media attention with a showy piece of research and analysis headlined "The States With The Most Gun Laws See The Fewest Gun-Related Deaths." The subhead lamented: "But there's still little appetite to talk about more restrictions."

Critics quickly noted that the Journal's Libby Isenstein had included suicides among "gun-related deaths" and suicide-irrelevant policies such as stand-your-ground laws among its tally of "gun laws." That meant that high-suicide, low-homicide states such as Wyoming, Alaska, and Idaho were taken to task for their liberal carry-permit policies. Worse, several of the states with what the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence considers terribly lax gun laws were dropped from Isenstein's data set because their murder rates were too low!

Another of National Journal's mistakes is a common one in gun science: The paper didn't look at gun statistics in the context of overall violent crime, a much more relevant measure to the policy debate. After all, if less gun crime doesn't mean less crime overall—if criminals simply substitute other weapons or means when guns are less available—the benefit of the relevant gun laws is thrown into doubt. When Thomas Firey of the Cato Institute ran regressions of Isenstein's study with slightly different specifications and considering all violent crime, each of her effects either disappeared or reversed.

Another recent well-publicized study trying to assert a positive connection between gun laws and public safety was a 2013 JAMA Internal Medicine article by the Harvard pediatrics professor Eric W. Fleegler and his colleagues, called "Firearm Legislation and Firearm-Related Fatalities in the United States." It offered a mostly static comparison of the toughness of state gun laws (as rated by the gun control lobbyists at the Brady Center) with gun deaths from 2007 to 2010.

"States with strictest firearm laws have lowest rates of gun deaths," a Boston Globeheadline then announced. But once again, if you take the simple, obvious step of separating out suicides from murders, the correlations that buttress the supposed causations disappear. As John Hinderaker headlined his reaction at the Power Line blog, "New Study Finds Firearm Laws Do Nothing to Prevent Homicides."

Among other anomalies in Fleegler's research, Hinderaker pointed out that it didn't include Washington, D.C., with its strict gun laws and frequent homicides. If just one weak-gun-law state, Louisiana, were taken out of the equation, "the remaining nine lowest-regulation states have an average gun homicide rate of 2.8 per 100,000, which is 12.5% less than the average of the ten states with the strictest gun control laws," he found.

October interview with Slate and found it wanting: "There have been studies that have essentially toted up the number of laws various states have on the books and examined the association between the number of laws and rates of firearm death," said Wintemute, who is a medical doctor and researcher at the University of California, Davis. "That's really bad science, and it shouldn't inform policymaking."

Wintemute thinks the factor such studies don't adequately consider is the number of people in a state who have guns to begin with, which is generally not known or even well-estimated on levels smaller than national, though researchers have used proxies from subscribers to certain gun-related magazines and percentages of suicides committed with guns to make educated guesses. "Perhaps these laws decrease mortality by decreasing firearm ownership, in which case firearm ownership mediates the association," Wintemute wrote in a 2013 JAMA Internal Medicine paper. "But perhaps, and more plausibly, these laws are more readily enacted in states where the prevalence of firearm ownership is low—there will be less opposition to them—and firearm ownership confounds the association."











Would Cracking Down on Guns in the U.S. Really Reduce Violence? , by Robert VerBruggen, National Review

There is actually no simple correlation between states’ homicide rates and their gun-ownership rates or gun laws.
This has been shown numerous times, by different people, using different data sets.

A year ago, I took state gun-ownership levels reported by the Washington Post (based on a Centers for Disease Control survey) and compared them with murder rates from the FBI: no correlation.

The legal scholar Eugene Volokh has compared states’ gun laws (as rated by the anti-gun Brady Campaign) with their murder rates: no correlation.

David Freddoso of the Washington Examiner, a former National Review reporter, failed to find a correlation even between gun ownership in a state and gun murders specifically, an approach that sets aside the issue of whether gun availability has an effect on non-gun crime. (Guns can deter unarmed criminals, for instance, and criminals without guns may simply switch to other weapons.)


, I recently redid my analysis with a few tweaks. Instead of relying on a single year of survey data, I averaged three years. (The CDC survey, the best available for state-level numbers, included data on gun ownership only in 2001, 2002, and 2004. Those were the years I looked at.)

And instead of comparing CDC data with murder rates from a different agency, I relied on the CDC’s own estimates of death by assault in those years. Again: no correlation.

------

Left-leaning media outlets, from Mother Jones to National Journal, get around this absence of correlation by reporting numbers on “gun deaths” rather than gun homicides or homicides in general.
More than 60 percent of gun deaths nationally are suicides, and places with higher gun ownership typically see a higher percentage of their suicides committed with a gun.
Focusing on the number of gun deaths practically guarantees a finding that guns and violence go together. While it may be true that public policy should also seek to reduce suicide, it is homicide — often a dramatic mass killing — that usually prompts the media and politicians to call for gun control, and it is homicide that most influences people as they consider supporting measures to take away their fellow citizens’ access to guns.
There are large gaps among the states when it comes to homicide, with rates ranging all the way from about two to twelve per 100,000 in 2013, the most recent year of data available from the CDC. These disparities show that it’s not just guns that cause the United States to have, on average, a higher rate of homicide than other developed countries do. Not only is there no correlation between gun ownership and overall homicide within a state, but there is a strong correlation between gun homicide and non-gun homicide — suggesting that they spring from similar causes, and that some states are simply more violent than others. A closer look at demographic and geographic patterns provides some clues as to why this is.

 

[Brain357]

I have argued this for years, that guns don't people, cities kill people...and the concept bubbled to the surface once again in an article from liberal leaning Vox...that 60% of gun homicides occur in just 50 major US cities.

According to Pew Research, 58% of rural households have legal guns (and 75% of those more than one) while urban household gun ownership is at 29% (mostly consisting of just one gun per household).

Here are your links:
A gun debate compromise: let cities and rural areas pass different laws ,
Rural and urban gun owners have different experiences, views on gun policy

So, here's the two part question...if gun control is the answer...

1] Why do cities, despite a deficit of legal gun owners, represent far and away the highest threat of gun violence to their citizenry. (And, for the record, the answer it isn't poverty...both urban and rural citizens face equal poverty levels.)

2] Why are rural areas where guns are prevalent significantly safer from gun violence?

Keep in mind, this is a correlation, not a conclusion...if we are going to reduce gun violence, we must understand it's root causes. Obviously more legal guns does not equate to more gun violence, and less guns with more regulation does not equate to less gun violence...so what forces are actually at work here?

Why? Because they are so easy to get, so easy to conceal, and so easy to use.

And so damn permanent once you do.

Wrong.......

Two cities......

Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Then....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes all those things went down right after we got some gun control from Bill Clinton.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So dishonest . Typical of gun nuts . ND is a giant empty state . DC is a city . It’s literally impossible to shoot your neighbor because they are so far away from you!!!

I challenge you to compare similar suited states .

Example . Massachusetts vs Arizona . Similar population and both have a major city . Opposite sides of gun control .

I did... Houston and Chicago, and Houston has more people carrying guns, gun stores and gun ranges and they are in a state next to the narco state of Mexico...


Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Now I know why you picked 2016 and Chicago !! It’s typical dishonest gun nut stat manipulation .

Chicago had more murders than LA and NYC combined !

And NYC had a little higher than your Houston , despite being what ? 3x the population. Of Houston ?

Busted !
Chicago's 762 homicides in 2016 is more than New York and Los Angeles combined - NY Daily News

Moron.... that doesn't bust me... it shows you are an idiot.... it shows that gun control isn't the problem... since, moron, New York, and L.A. have the exact same gun control laws as Chicago...and Chicago has a higher gun murder rate than both of them...

Gun control isn't the issue...

Then.... you compare

Houston... in a state with loose gun control. Gun stores on every corner, gun ranges to. 139,563 gun permits in the county holding Houston , in a state next to the Narco state of Mexico.

Chicago.... no gun stores in city limits. No gun ranges. Extreme gun control laws. Not next to a Narco State, and 42, 000 gun permits....

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

When you add the suburbs of Houston the number swells to over 5 million.

Dude. U really want to add the burbs? Like LA and NYC metro doesn’t exist ??

Please stop.

Dude......does it really make a difference?
In fact it would make your position stronger.
But then you're a moron.

 

[2aguy]

I have argued this for years, that guns don't people, cities kill people...and the concept bubbled to the surface once again in an article from liberal leaning Vox...that 60% of gun homicides occur in just 50 major US cities.

According to Pew Research, 58% of rural households have legal guns (and 75% of those more than one) while urban household gun ownership is at 29% (mostly consisting of just one gun per household).

Here are your links:
A gun debate compromise: let cities and rural areas pass different laws ,
Rural and urban gun owners have different experiences, views on gun policy

So, here's the two part question...if gun control is the answer...

1] Why do cities, despite a deficit of legal gun owners, represent far and away the highest threat of gun violence to their citizenry. (And, for the record, the answer it isn't poverty...both urban and rural citizens face equal poverty levels.)

2] Why are rural areas where guns are prevalent significantly safer from gun violence?

Keep in mind, this is a correlation, not a conclusion...if we are going to reduce gun violence, we must understand it's root causes. Obviously more legal guns does not equate to more gun violence, and less guns with more regulation does not equate to less gun violence...so what forces are actually at work here?

Why? Because they are so easy to get, so easy to conceal, and so easy to use.

And so damn permanent once you do.

Wrong.......

Two cities......

Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Then....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes all those things went down right after we got some gun control from Bill Clinton.

You are a troll.......

You and the other asshats tell us that if more people have more guns there will be more crime.... you don't add anything else...that is your theory, not ours.

Then the truth...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades

This shows that your theory is crap....

 

[Brain357]

I have argued this for years, that guns don't people, cities kill people...and the concept bubbled to the surface once again in an article from liberal leaning Vox...that 60% of gun homicides occur in just 50 major US cities.

According to Pew Research, 58% of rural households have legal guns (and 75% of those more than one) while urban household gun ownership is at 29% (mostly consisting of just one gun per household).

Here are your links:
A gun debate compromise: let cities and rural areas pass different laws ,
Rural and urban gun owners have different experiences, views on gun policy

So, here's the two part question...if gun control is the answer...

1] Why do cities, despite a deficit of legal gun owners, represent far and away the highest threat of gun violence to their citizenry. (And, for the record, the answer it isn't poverty...both urban and rural citizens face equal poverty levels.)

2] Why are rural areas where guns are prevalent significantly safer from gun violence?

Keep in mind, this is a correlation, not a conclusion...if we are going to reduce gun violence, we must understand it's root causes. Obviously more legal guns does not equate to more gun violence, and less guns with more regulation does not equate to less gun violence...so what forces are actually at work here?

Why? Because they are so easy to get, so easy to conceal, and so easy to use.

And so damn permanent once you do.

Wrong.......

Two cities......

Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Then....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes all those things went down right after we got some gun control from Bill Clinton.

You are a troll.......

You and the other asshats tell us that if more people have more guns there will be more crime.... you don't add anything else...that is your theory, not ours.

Then the truth...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades

This shows that your theory is crap....

Yes they dropped right after Bill Clinton passed some gun control.

 

[2aguy]

I have argued this for years, that guns don't people, cities kill people...and the concept bubbled to the surface once again in an article from liberal leaning Vox...that 60% of gun homicides occur in just 50 major US cities.

According to Pew Research, 58% of rural households have legal guns (and 75% of those more than one) while urban household gun ownership is at 29% (mostly consisting of just one gun per household).

Here are your links:
A gun debate compromise: let cities and rural areas pass different laws ,
Rural and urban gun owners have different experiences, views on gun policy

So, here's the two part question...if gun control is the answer...

1] Why do cities, despite a deficit of legal gun owners, represent far and away the highest threat of gun violence to their citizenry. (And, for the record, the answer it isn't poverty...both urban and rural citizens face equal poverty levels.)

2] Why are rural areas where guns are prevalent significantly safer from gun violence?

Keep in mind, this is a correlation, not a conclusion...if we are going to reduce gun violence, we must understand it's root causes. Obviously more legal guns does not equate to more gun violence, and less guns with more regulation does not equate to less gun violence...so what forces are actually at work here?

Why? Because they are so easy to get, so easy to conceal, and so easy to use.

And so damn permanent once you do.

Wrong.......

Two cities......

Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Then....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes all those things went down right after we got some gun control from Bill Clinton.

You are a troll.......

You and the other asshats tell us that if more people have more guns there will be more crime.... you don't add anything else...that is your theory, not ours.

Then the truth...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades

This shows that your theory is crap....

Yes they dropped right after Bill Clinton passed some gun control.

And at the same time as gun control laws stopped preventing more Americans from carrying guns in public. That is what increasing from 4.7 million concealed permit holders in the 1990s.... you know, when clinton the rapist was President, to today when 17 million people have concealed carry permits...

-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

 

[Brain357]

Why? Because they are so easy to get, so easy to conceal, and so easy to use.

And so damn permanent once you do.

Wrong.......

Two cities......

Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Then....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes all those things went down right after we got some gun control from Bill Clinton.

You are a troll.......

You and the other asshats tell us that if more people have more guns there will be more crime.... you don't add anything else...that is your theory, not ours.

Then the truth...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades

This shows that your theory is crap....

Yes they dropped right after Bill Clinton passed some gun control.

And at the same time as gun control laws stopped preventing more Americans from carrying guns in public. That is what increasing from 4.7 million concealed permit holders in the 1990s.... you know, when clinton the rapist was President, to today when 17 million people have concealed carry permits...

-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

17 million concealed carry and what happens?
FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

 

[Brain357]

Why? Because they are so easy to get, so easy to conceal, and so easy to use.

And so damn permanent once you do.

Wrong.......

Two cities......

Chicago.... no gun stores, no shooting ranges in city limits. Extreme gun control. 47,000 Concealed carry permits in cook county.....

How Many People Have Concealed Carry Licenses in Your County?

Houston... gun stores on every corner, shooting ranges too, and more concealed carry permits than Chicago. 139,563 licensed permits in the county that contains Houston.

Licensed to Carry: Handguns in Texas

Houston is on the border with the narco state of Mexico....

Gun murder in 2016...

Population of cities 2016:

Chicago........2.7 million

Houston........2.3 million


Murder rate 2016:

Chicago........765

Houston .......301

Then....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Yes all those things went down right after we got some gun control from Bill Clinton.

You are a troll.......

You and the other asshats tell us that if more people have more guns there will be more crime.... you don't add anything else...that is your theory, not ours.

Then the truth...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades

This shows that your theory is crap....

Yes they dropped right after Bill Clinton passed some gun control.

And at the same time as gun control laws stopped preventing more Americans from carrying guns in public. That is what increasing from 4.7 million concealed permit holders in the 1990s.... you know, when clinton the rapist was President, to today when 17 million people have concealed carry permits...

-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

We get background checks and:
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

 

[Brain357]

Perhaps the question we should ask is why our cities have so much more homicide than cities in other countries. The UK has plenty of cities and gangs, but still they have a much lower homicide rate. We even have far more people in jail than they do.

 

[Missourian]

I have argued this for years, that guns don't people, cities kill people...and the concept bubbled to the surface once again in an article from liberal leaning Vox...that 60% of gun homicides occur in just 50 major US cities.

According to Pew Research, 58% of rural households have legal guns (and 75% of those more than one) while urban household gun ownership is at 29% (mostly consisting of just one gun per household).

Here are your links:
A gun debate compromise: let cities and rural areas pass different laws ,
Rural and urban gun owners have different experiences, views on gun policy

So, here's the two part question...if gun control is the answer...

1] Why do cities, despite a deficit of legal gun owners, represent far and away the highest threat of gun violence to their citizenry. (And, for the record, the answer it isn't poverty...both urban and rural citizens face equal poverty levels.)

2] Why are rural areas where guns are prevalent significantly safer from gun violence?

Keep in mind, this is a correlation, not a conclusion...if we are going to reduce gun violence, we must understand it's root causes. Obviously more legal guns does not equate to more gun violence, and less guns with more regulation does not equate to less gun violence...so what forces are actually at work here?

Why are U.S. cities the epicenter of gun violence? The answer should be pretty obvious. In cities there are a lot more people per square mile than in rural areas, small towns, are suburbs. When we ask the question, why are crime rates higher in the city? Gangs, a greater mix of race and ethnicity pop up. There is also the pressure cooker effect.

Then are guns really the problem, or is it compression of population.

 

[Kondor3]

Why?

Four words.

"Long-term Democratic rule."

 

[Missourian]

Perhaps the question we should ask is why our cities have so much more homicide than cities in other countries. The UK has plenty of cities and gangs, but still they have a much lower homicide rate. We even have far more people in jail than they do.

...and always have, even before their gun control. Same with Australia. Their firearms homicide rate before gun control was only .4 per 100,000...

Our firearm homicide rate was over 10 times higher that same year.

 

[Brain357]

Perhaps the question we should ask is why our cities have so much more homicide than cities in other countries. The UK has plenty of cities and gangs, but still they have a much lower homicide rate. We even have far more people in jail than they do.

...and always have, even before their gun control. Same with Australia. Their firearms homicide rate before gun control was only .4 per 100,000...

Our firearm homicide rate was over 10 times higher that same year.

Yes, nobody else has ever come close to our ownership rates. Everyone else fixed the problem before it reached our levels.

 

[Brain357]

I have argued this for years, that guns don't people, cities kill people...and the concept bubbled to the surface once again in an article from liberal leaning Vox...that 60% of gun homicides occur in just 50 major US cities.

According to Pew Research, 58% of rural households have legal guns (and 75% of those more than one) while urban household gun ownership is at 29% (mostly consisting of just one gun per household).

Here are your links:
A gun debate compromise: let cities and rural areas pass different laws ,
Rural and urban gun owners have different experiences, views on gun policy

So, here's the two part question...if gun control is the answer...

1] Why do cities, despite a deficit of legal gun owners, represent far and away the highest threat of gun violence to their citizenry. (And, for the record, the answer it isn't poverty...both urban and rural citizens face equal poverty levels.)

2] Why are rural areas where guns are prevalent significantly safer from gun violence?

Keep in mind, this is a correlation, not a conclusion...if we are going to reduce gun violence, we must understand it's root causes. Obviously more legal guns does not equate to more gun violence, and less guns with more regulation does not equate to less gun violence...so what forces are actually at work here?

Why are U.S. cities the epicenter of gun violence? The answer should be pretty obvious. In cities there are a lot more people per square mile than in rural areas, small towns, are suburbs. When we ask the question, why are crime rates higher in the city? Gangs, a greater mix of race and ethnicity pop up. There is also the pressure cooker effect.

Then are guns really the problem, or is it compression of population.

Lots of countries have cities with compressed populations. They still have much lower homicide rates than our cities.

 

[Missourian]

Yes, nobody else has ever come close to our ownership rates. Everyone else fixed the problem before it reached our levels.

Got some proof of that? I can't find firearm ownership per capita by year for Australia.