Why are we giving oil companies subsidies?

[Pheonixops]

Wanting a simplified tax code is liberal ignorance?

Interesting....

A simplified tax code is a myth that is wholly unobtainable under an income tax system. The vast majority of the tax code is nothing more than an attempt to determine what the income to be taxed is. Since there are numerous ways in which income can be made, numerous ways in which income can be lost, and numerous expenses associated with making income, the tax code has to consider all variations.

And, because of the necessary complexity, it is easy for politicians to insert provisions that favor their doner base.

The FAIR tax eliminates all of the complexity of collecting taxes, and is almost impossible to scam, even with the aid of politicians. It may be difficult to determine how much income you make, but it is easy to determine how much you spend. This tax is paid at the time of purchase, is collected by the state under the same rules that state sales taxes are collected, and it is completely transparent. An added benefit is that it collects taxes from the criminals who have never paid taxes before.

Under the "Fairtax", what would happen if a friend came over and did a plumbing job for me to help me out of a jam? How is that transaction treated under the "Fairtax"?

 

[depotoo]

Then they should be taxed accordingly. Almost all family's in America have a car, gas is more of a necessity. Would it be OK if they charged whatever they wanted and still got breaks out the wazoo?

I think they they need to be taxed HIGHER and (via a much larger gas tax) so that people do not have to pay as much in federal tax.

Oil is the most heavily taxed commodity in the entire world. It is also the commodity that is the most necessary to sustain the level of human life that currently exists on our planet.

Who the fuck do you think pays the taxes levied on oil companies? Any idea?

That would be us - It's taxed already, I understand. Here's the kicker - the price of gas will not change very much from what it is right now, unless people stop using it, then it will begin to fall. If demand creeps up though, the oil companies will raise the price, because they can.

NOW, if the government waits until prices are around $3.35 per gallon, then place a 50 cent tax on gas, the price is now $3.85, at that price, people will cut back some and, guess what??? That's right, the price drops.

Effectively, the government gets more revenue, (about 70 BILLION dollars a year) federal income taxes can dramatically decrease, Oil companies will help pay taxes and the middle class on down gets a bit of a break. So, if the Government (us tax payers) are getting all that revenue, who's hurt by this? The oil companies.

Good thing they can afford it! I don't remember the US handing out an oil company bailout ... EVER.

You've never heard of opec, have you? Look it up.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Oil is the most heavily taxed commodity in the entire world. It is also the commodity that is the most necessary to sustain the level of human life that currently exists on our planet.

Who the fuck do you think pays the taxes levied on oil companies? Any idea?

That would be us - It's taxed already, I understand. Here's the kicker - the price of gas will not change very much from what it is right now, unless people stop using it, then it will begin to fall. If demand creeps up though, the oil companies will raise the price, because they can.

NOW, if the government waits until prices are around $3.35 per gallon, then place a 50 cent tax on gas, the price is now $3.85, at that price, people will cut back some and, guess what??? That's right, the price drops.

Effectively, the government gets more revenue, (about 70 BILLION dollars a year) federal income taxes can dramatically decrease, Oil companies will help pay taxes and the middle class on down gets a bit of a break. So, if the Government (us tax payers) are getting all that revenue, who's hurt by this? The oil companies.

Good thing they can afford it! I don't remember the US handing out an oil company bailout ... EVER.

You've never heard of opec, have you? Look it up.

Do you have a point, here? Please make it.

 

[Claudette]

If the rational is that it was their money to begin with and they deserve it why doesn't every other company "deserve" some of their money returned in the form of subsidies?

Better yet why don't we just simplify the tax code so the government doesn't have control over who it deems a winner or loser.

Corporate welfare needs to stop across the board.

We shouldn't be giving subsidies to any person or company period.

That includes the ACA, Oil companies and anyone else who gets a subsidy from the US Taxpayer.

 

[Mr. H.]

Our company has been an "oil business" for 65 years and we've yet to see a single subsidy.

Blow it out your ass, bitches.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Exxon Mobil, Shell, and Chevron had the first, seventh, and eighth, respectively, highest profits of any global public company on the 2013 Fortune 500 list. BP finished 30th, while ConocoPhillips ranked 50th.

Poooooor lil' oil compnies.

They receive at least $2.4 billion-per-year tax breaks. The largest of these special provisions allows these companies to qualify for the “limitation on section 199 deduction attributable to oil, natural gas, or primary products,” which will cost taxpayers $14.4 billion over 10 years, according to the Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation. This tax break was enacted in 2004 and was designed to encourage manufacturing to remain in the United States rather than move overseas.

But why would this apply to oil and natural gas companies? The oil and gas fields cannot be moved to another nation.

 

[martybegan]

Guys, a tax credit is NOT what we are talking about.

We are talking about CORPORATE subsidies, pertaining specifically to OIL companies.

A tax credit (as long as it is not for MORE than what I have already paid in taxes) is MY money.

An oil subsidy is also, MY money.

Get it?

The third quarter of 2013 brought more multi-billion dollar profits for the oil and gas industry. So far this year, just six of the largest oil companies recorded more than $82 billion in profits—making it still one of the most lucrative industries in the world. The industry as a whole spends on average $300,000 per day lobbying Congress and employs more than 700 lobbyists, more than one per member of Congress. Not surprisingly, U.S. taxpayers continue to subsidize the oil industry despite their billion-dollar profits.

Profits and Investment Healthy

The oil industry continues to post healthy profits. ExxonMobil reported $7.9 billion in profits during the last quarter, equal to an average of $87 million in profit per day. Chevron and BP both reported close to $5 billion in profits, and Shell earned $4.7 billion. Total S.A. reported $3.7 billion during the third quarter, and ConocoPhillips reported $2.5 billion. So far this year, these six companies have earned more than $82 billion in profits. For a breakdown of the companies’ profits by quarter, see Table 1.

Big Oil is investing record levels in exploration and development. So-called “mega-projects" have begun in regions like the Arctic previously thought to be “too remote or risky.” Shell expects to spend $45 billion on exploration in 2013, which will mark its “peak investment” year. ExxonMobil has spent $33 billion on exploration in the first nine months of the year. And BP, with nearly $12 billion in profits this year, plans to complete 18 new wells in November.

Federal Subsidies Continue

From preferential treatment in the tax code to insurance liability caps, the oil industry still enjoys significant taxpayer subsidies. Our Green Scissors 2012 report identifies more than a dozen subsidies for oil and gas companies. Repealing the percentage depletion deduction, which allows independent producers a flat deduction of gross income from each well, would save the federal government $5.3 billion from 2012-2017. Repealing the last-in, first-out method of inventory for oil, natural gas, and coal companies would generate $18.3 billion in revenue for the federal government for the same period. If Congress repealed the deduction for intangible drilling and development costs in the case of oil and natural gas wells it would produce $8.4 billion in added revenue.

Oil Industry Spends More than $300,000 per Day on Lobbying

The oil and gas industry spent $141 million lobbying in 2012. So far in 2013, the industry has spent $105.2 million according to the Center for Responsive Politics on lobbying....

Oil and Gas Third Quarter Profits | Taxpayers for Common Sense

So your money is your money, and their money, is your money, and my money is probably your money.

Greedy fuck.

Of course you do leave out the profit percentages. Of course these companies have large profits by value, their revenues and expenses are equally vast.

Then they should be taxed accordingly. Almost all family's in America have a car, gas is more of a necessity. Would it be OK if they charged whatever they wanted and still got breaks out the wazoo?

I think that they need to be taxed HIGHER (via a much larger gas tax) so that people do not have to pay as much in federal tax.

In the end we pay for it anyway, so the change is basically just to look like we are "doing something" to oil companies.

 

[nodoginnafight]

If the rational is that it was their money to begin with and they deserve it why doesn't every other company "deserve" some of their money returned in the form of subsidies?

Better yet why don't we just simplify the tax code so the government doesn't have control over who it deems a winner or loser.

Corporate welfare needs to stop across the board.

why are we kissing big oil butt ?

(without reading ALL 60 threads) ... POLITICS

Duuuurrrrr.

Because their subsidies are being viewed in a much harsher light and they are worried about losing them. So they've sent out their "action alerts" asking all their stooges to come to their defense.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Wanting a simplified tax code is liberal ignorance?

Interesting....

A simplified tax code is a myth that is wholly unobtainable under an income tax system. The vast majority of the tax code is nothing more than an attempt to determine what the income to be taxed is. Since there are numerous ways in which income can be made, numerous ways in which income can be lost, and numerous expenses associated with making income, the tax code has to consider all variations.

And, because of the necessary complexity, it is easy for politicians to insert provisions that favor their doner base.

The FAIR tax eliminates all of the complexity of collecting taxes, and is almost impossible to scam, even with the aid of politicians. It may be difficult to determine how much income you make, but it is easy to determine how much you spend. This tax is paid at the time of purchase, is collected by the state under the same rules that state sales taxes are collected, and it is completely transparent. An added benefit is that it collects taxes from the criminals who have never paid taxes before.

Under the "Fairtax", what would happen if a friend came over and did a plumbing job for me to help me out of a jam? How is that transaction treated under the "Fairtax"?

He would report this as "income."

Next.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

So your money is your money, and their money, is your money, and my money is probably your money.

Greedy fuck.

Of course you do leave out the profit percentages. Of course these companies have large profits by value, their revenues and expenses are equally vast.

Then they should be taxed accordingly. Almost all family's in America have a car, gas is more of a necessity. Would it be OK if they charged whatever they wanted and still got breaks out the wazoo?

I think that they need to be taxed HIGHER (via a much larger gas tax) so that people do not have to pay as much in federal tax.

In the end we pay for it anyway, so the change is basically just to look like we are "doing something" to oil companies.

Wrong. It's the oil companies being forced to chip in and paying their fair share for doing business in the US.

It means LOWER fed tax for you and me and it also means that maybe yoy didn't really read what I wrote.

Why should YOU pay the oil companies? Make them earn less. They can pick up their ball and wag their tongue while going home if they don't like it - why are you defending them?

WHAT ABoUT YOU???????

 

[martybegan]

Then they should be taxed accordingly. Almost all family's in America have a car, gas is more of a necessity. Would it be OK if they charged whatever they wanted and still got breaks out the wazoo?

I think that they need to be taxed HIGHER (via a much larger gas tax) so that people do not have to pay as much in federal tax.

In the end we pay for it anyway, so the change is basically just to look like we are "doing something" to oil companies.

Wrong. It's the oil companies being forced to chip in and paying their fair share for doing business in the US.

It means LOWER fed tax for you and me and it also means that maybe yoy didn't really read what I wrote.

Why should YOU pay the oil companies? Make them earn less. They can pick up their ball and wag their tongue while going home if they don't like it - why are you defending them?

WHAT ABoUT YOU???????

No, it doesn't because the government as it is set up now will just spend any extra money they get.

Plus, price at the pump WILL go up, because of the already tight profit margin the companies run on. People who buy oil stocks expect a sizable dividend, including all the 401k funds out there, if they don't get it, they will sell the stock, causing its value to go down.

The companies won't let that happen, so up prices will go.

 

[Redfish]

If the rational is that it was their money to begin with and they deserve it why doesn't every other company "deserve" some of their money returned in the form of subsidies?

Better yet why don't we just simplify the tax code so the government doesn't have control over who it deems a winner or loser.

Corporate welfare needs to stop across the board.

We shouldn't be giving subsidies to any person or company period.

That includes the ACA, Oil companies and anyone else who gets a subsidy from the US Taxpayer.

Oil companies do not get subsidies. Please look up the word 'subsidies'. It does not mean tax credits for exploration and development.

Subsidies are when a farmer is sent a govt check for NOT growing corn in order to keep the price up.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If the rational is that it was their money to begin with and they deserve it why doesn't every other company "deserve" some of their money returned in the form of subsidies?

Better yet why don't we just simplify the tax code so the government doesn't have control over who it deems a winner or loser.

Corporate welfare needs to stop across the board.

Tax code reform gets my vote. Outta be one rate across the board regardless of income or whether an individual or company.

As to subsidies, of course there should be subsidies. If there weren't, that would make sense which doesn't describe governments.

“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

- Douglas Adams, "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe"

Sums up government I think.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Subsidy: a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public.

Subsidy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Sorry, but when taxpayers give oil and gas companies $14.4 billion over the course of 10 years in order to encourage those companies to keep their U.S. oil and gas fields in the U.S. and not move them overseas ..... that's a subsidy imho. I think it fits the definition.

Sure - the oil and gas companies would LIKE to re-define the word subsidy so that nothing they get fits - but that's just political sophistry imho.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

In the end we pay for it anyway, so the change is basically just to look like we are "doing something" to oil companies.

Wrong. It's the oil companies being forced to chip in and paying their fair share for doing business in the US.

It means LOWER fed tax for you and me and it also means that maybe yoy didn't really read what I wrote.

Why should YOU pay the oil companies? Make them earn less. They can pick up their ball and wag their tongue while going home if they don't like it - why are you defending them?

WHAT ABoUT YOU???????

No, it doesn't because the government as it is set up now will just spend any extra money they get.

Plus, price at the pump WILL go up, because of the already tight profit margin the companies run on. People who buy oil stocks expect a sizable dividend, including all the 401k funds out there, if they don't get it, they will sell the stock, causing its value to go down.

The companies won't let that happen, so up prices will go.

They are the ones that voluntarily lower the price when people stop buying, so that dog don't hunt.

Lower taxes are just a part of the paint-by-numbers - the answer is SMALLER GOVERNMENT and NOT the fairy-tail one that the republicans are trying to feed us.


"Entitlements" are not the hobgoblins that we imagine them to be, we need to think bigger, while the GOP wants us to think [inside] the box.

 

[Redfish]

Subsidy: a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public.

Subsidy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Sorry, but when taxpayers give oil and gas companies $14.4 billion over the course of 10 years in order to encourage those companies to keep their U.S. oil and gas fields in the U.S. and not move them overseas ..... that's a subsidy imho. I think it fits the definition.

Sure - the oil and gas companies would LIKE to re-define the word subsidy so that nothing they get fits - but that's just political sophistry imho.

The government does not GIVE money to oil companies. The govt does not send checks to oil companies. Tax credits are NOT subsidies. You are displaying a whole lot of ignorance here.

 

[Redfish]

Subsidy: a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public.Subsidy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Sorry, but when taxpayers give oil and gas companies $14.4 billion over the course of 10 years in order to encourage those companies to keep their U.S. oil and gas fields in the U.S. and not move them overseas ..... that's a subsidy imho. I think it fits the definition.

Sure - the oil and gas companies would LIKE to re-define the word subsidy so that nothing they get fits - but that's just political sophistry imho.

LOL, you post the definition and then claim its wrong. sure sign of mental illness.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Subsidy: a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public.Subsidy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Sorry, but when taxpayers give oil and gas companies $14.4 billion over the course of 10 years in order to encourage those companies to keep their U.S. oil and gas fields in the U.S. and not move them overseas ..... that's a subsidy imho. I think it fits the definition.

Sure - the oil and gas companies would LIKE to re-define the word subsidy so that nothing they get fits - but that's just political sophistry imho.

LOL, you post the definition and then claim its wrong. sure sign of mental illness.

The definition that you are using is rather archaic - the world AND the definition has evolved quite a bit over time.


Fossil Fuel Subsidies: Overview

What is a fossil fuel subsidy?

A fossil fuel subsidy is any government action that lowers the cost of fossil fuel energy production, raises the price received by energy producers or lowers the price paid by energy consumers. There are a lot of activities under this simple definition—tax breaks and giveaways, but also loans at favorable rates, price controls, purchase requirements and a whole lot of other things.

How much money does the U.S. government provide to support the oil, gas and coal industries?

In the United States, credible estimates of annual fossil fuel subsidies range from $10 billion to $52 billion annually yet these don’t even include costs borne by taxpayers related to the climate, local environmental, and health impacts of the fossil fuel industry.

Click link for more....

Fossil Fuel Subsidies: Overview | Oil Change International


Not all subsidies involve "gifting" actual cash to an entity - sometimes, it comes in the form of tax-breaks or low interest loans.

I would imagine those would be preferable in order to avoid 'pesky' taxes.












.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Subsidy: a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public.

Subsidy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Sorry, but when taxpayers give oil and gas companies $14.4 billion over the course of 10 years in order to encourage those companies to keep their U.S. oil and gas fields in the U.S. and not move them overseas ..... that's a subsidy imho. I think it fits the definition.

Sure - the oil and gas companies would LIKE to re-define the word subsidy so that nothing they get fits - but that's just political sophistry imho.

The government does not GIVE money to oil companies. The govt does not send checks to oil companies. Tax credits are NOT subsidies. You are displaying a whole lot of ignorance here.

Yeah - spin all you want to.

What the oil companies get are subsidies - a grant - just as the definition says. You try to redefine it as a mailed check - and call anyone who doesn't go along with your redefinition "ignorant" ?????

Well, go ahead and do whatever you need to do - just don't get your panties in such a bunch when all of us don't go along with your attempted re-definition.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Subsidy: a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public.

Subsidy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Sorry, but when taxpayers give oil and gas companies $14.4 billion over the course of 10 years in order to encourage those companies to keep their U.S. oil and gas fields in the U.S. and not move them overseas ..... that's a subsidy imho. I think it fits the definition.

Sure - the oil and gas companies would LIKE to re-define the word subsidy so that nothing they get fits - but that's just political sophistry imho.

The government does not GIVE money to oil companies. The govt does not send checks to oil companies. Tax credits are NOT subsidies. You are displaying a whole lot of ignorance here.

They ABSOLUTELY are. You are too caught up in the semantics of HOW the oil companies are being propped up to take our money, to understand that:

1 The government is spending YOUR money foolishly.

2 Oil Companies do very well and they always have.

3 That you are using the infamous Mitt Romney "It's not a tax It's a fee" line of thinking.