Why can't Americans have a vacation?

[Freemason9]

Perhaps if we didn't have a tax and regulatory system which both drives up the cost of health care and makes it tied to employment, more people could afford to purchase what they need. If you want to identify who is to blame for this, look back to FDR's wage controls.

People in America, even the poor, live far better than the vast amount of humans who have ever lived - most of whom were real slaves or serfs, living in squalor. I think you are a victim of "relative poverty thinking". Yes, there are certainly people who are richer than you (money does give one more freedom of choice), but their comparative well-offness doesn't make you a slave.

It isn't the "tax and regulatory" system that has created our disastrous health care system. Nearly every other industrialized nation in the world has more taxes and more regulation--and much, much better systems of health care delivery. It's the health insurance companies--they have created these problems. When health care companies became the "private party" dispensers of health care dollars, they separated consumers from providers. And made a TON of money as a consequence. They still do.

The same thing was happening with the student loan program--colleges and universities, like hospitals--were free to raise salaries to outlandish levels for high-level staff because their business model was isolated from demand.

I don't know what this "relative poverty thinking" is that you speak of, but I see a LOT of completely worthless rich folks out there. I see rich farmers that never bothered to finance their education, enjoying the benefits of laziness and stupidity because they inherited wealth from their parents/grandparents/whatever.

In my book, EVERYONE should work for their wages. If a person does not work, then they should not be wealthy--a person needs to earn their way in life.

 

[Dragonlady]

Perhaps if we didn't have a tax and regulatory system which both drives up the cost of health care and makes it tied to employment, more people could afford to purchase what they need. If you want to identify who is to blame for this, look back to FDR's wage controls.

Yes, let's blame the politicians for the problem. The problem is not a the obscene level of profits of the insurance companies and big medicine. Or an administration system that is so complex and spends so much money fighting against authorizing treatment that doctors have to hire staff to obtain pre-approvals, and third party billing companies (adding yet more costs to the system) to handle their billing. Nearly 1/3 of every health care dollar is spent on administration and billing.

Every single payer country in the world is spending less than half this amount on administration. In Canada, less than 10% of every health care dollar is spent on administration. You keep telling us that private business can do it better and cheaper, but the costs of health care in countries with publically funded health care, do it just as well, and a whole lot cheaper, and they don't have a large uninsured population either.

People in America, even the poor, live far better than the vast amount of humans who have ever lived - most of whom were real slaves or serfs, living in squalor. I think you are a victim of "relative poverty thinking". Yes, there are certainly people who are richer than you (money does give one more freedom of choice), but their comparative well-offness doesn't make you a slave.

Poor people in every other first world nation in the world, live better than the poor in the US. They have access to public housing, government funded medical care, they have a longer life expectancy, and they live in communities, not ghettos.

Some right-winger from the US came to Toronto and asked to see our slums. We don't really have slums but their host took them to St. James Town - a 10 building apartment complex notorious for having a higher population density than the Black Hole of Calcutta.

http://richardhaskell.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/st-james-town-3.jpg

This is where a lot of poor people in Toronto live.

The American said that in New York, St. James Town would be considered middle class.

 

[boedicca]

Perhaps if we didn't have a tax and regulatory system which both drives up the cost of health care and makes it tied to employment, more people could afford to purchase what they need. If you want to identify who is to blame for this, look back to FDR's wage controls.

Yes, let's blame the politicians for the problem. The problem is not a the obscene level of profits of the insurance companies and big medicine. Or an administration system that is so complex and spends so much money fighting against authorizing treatment that doctors have to hire staff to obtain pre-approvals, and third party billing companies (adding yet more costs to the system) to handle their billing. Nearly 1/3 of every health care dollar is spent on administration and billing.

Every single payer country in the world is spending less than half this amount on administration. In Canada, less than 10% of every health care dollar is spent on administration. You keep telling us that private business can do it better and cheaper, but the costs of health care in countries with publically funded health care, do it just as well, and a whole lot cheaper, and they don't have a large uninsured population either.

People in America, even the poor, live far better than the vast amount of humans who have ever lived - most of whom were real slaves or serfs, living in squalor. I think you are a victim of "relative poverty thinking". Yes, there are certainly people who are richer than you (money does give one more freedom of choice), but their comparative well-offness doesn't make you a slave.

Poor people in every other first world nation in the world, live better than the poor in the US. They have access to public housing, government funded medical care, they have a longer life expectancy, and they live in communities, not ghettos.

Some right-winger from the US came to Toronto and asked to see our slums. We don't really have slums but their host took them to St. James Town - a 10 building apartment complex notorious for having a higher population density than the Black Hole of Calcutta.

http://richardhaskell.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/st-james-town-3.jpg

This is where a lot of poor people in Toronto live.

The American said that in New York, St. James Town would be considered middle class.

You are an ignorant loon.

 

[Freemason9]

Perhaps if we didn't have a tax and regulatory system which both drives up the cost of health care and makes it tied to employment, more people could afford to purchase what they need. If you want to identify who is to blame for this, look back to FDR's wage controls.

Yes, let's blame the politicians for the problem. The problem is not a the obscene level of profits of the insurance companies and big medicine. Or an administration system that is so complex and spends so much money fighting against authorizing treatment that doctors have to hire staff to obtain pre-approvals, and third party billing companies (adding yet more costs to the system) to handle their billing. Nearly 1/3 of every health care dollar is spent on administration and billing.

Every single payer country in the world is spending less than half this amount on administration. In Canada, less than 10% of every health care dollar is spent on administration. You keep telling us that private business can do it better and cheaper, but the costs of health care in countries with publically funded health care, do it just as well, and a whole lot cheaper, and they don't have a large uninsured population either.

People in America, even the poor, live far better than the vast amount of humans who have ever lived - most of whom were real slaves or serfs, living in squalor. I think you are a victim of "relative poverty thinking". Yes, there are certainly people who are richer than you (money does give one more freedom of choice), but their comparative well-offness doesn't make you a slave.

Poor people in every other first world nation in the world, live better than the poor in the US. They have access to public housing, government funded medical care, they have a longer life expectancy, and they live in communities, not ghettos.

Some right-winger from the US came to Toronto and asked to see our slums. We don't really have slums but their host took them to St. James Town - a 10 building apartment complex notorious for having a higher population density than the Black Hole of Calcutta.

http://richardhaskell.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/st-james-town-3.jpg

This is where a lot of poor people in Toronto live.

The American said that in New York, St. James Town would be considered middle class.

You are an ignorant loon.

Nice response, fucktard.

 

[Dragonlady]

You are an ignorant loon.

That's right. The facts are unassailable so you insult me. Does that make you feel better? More powerful?

My mother used to say "It takes one to know one". As insults go, I personally prefer: Boedicca, you ignorant slut! (with thanks to fellow Cannuck, Dan Akroyd).

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, it's a very apt analogy. Many people are slaves to their health care. They stay in jobs they hate, that don't pay well because one or more members of their families has a pre-existing condition. I know people in this situation.

If you don't make enough money to provide the basic necessities of life - food, shelter, clothing and medical care for your family. You are a wage slave with no bargaining power, and in the US, with its weak and toothless labour laws, and 11 million illigal immigrants ready to take whatever they can get, the low wage workers have never had so little bargaining power.

This is where government must step in to protect workers from such abuses.

Then what they have are attitude problems. They aren't happy with what they earn and are slaves to their emotions instead of doing something affirmative to improve their situations.

Boo hoo.

Then this probably doesn't apply to you, Boe, and you are one of the fortunate few. Most Americans have few choices in their lives--they take whatever they can scramble around and get, and since the ONLY way they can afford healthcare is through employment, that's how they get it. You are apparently lucky, and also you clearly can't relate to it at all.

And I suppose you can define the term "most Americans"

Sorry there Sparky but I have always had choices in my life and have never been forced to work any job I have ever had.

And you are making the mistake of confusing health insurance with health care. The two are not the same.

I've often thought that the real problem the Right Wing has with national health care is that they do not want American workers to have that kind of freedom of employment. Workers might actually quit their jobs and look for better ones if they don't have to worry about insurance coverage. American owners have used health care insurance as a "whip" against their work force (wage slaves) for a very long time.

The real problem with American health care is that the reliance on insurance has effectively removed actual health care from everyday market forces.

If we treated health insurance like car insurance with like deductibles and required people to submit their own paperwork we would see an instantaneous drop in the cost of actual health care.

That said no one I know has ever taken a job solely for the insurance benefits and everyone I know has changed jobs multiple times in their careers so your proposition that Americans are forced to work a particular job is quite frankly horse shit.

 

[Freemason9]

You're full of shit, Skull Pilot. People hold jobs for insurance benefits everywhere, every day. It's exceptionally common. If you've never had to do this, you're probably a farmer--or have never actually been an employee.

"Most of us" have worked plenty of unsavory jobs in our lives to support our families. This is hardly unusual. Do you live on Mars or something?

Oh, and this--in America, health care has been managed and distributed for decades by health insurance companies. So, YES, they are effectively the same thing.

 

[Unkotare]

It's disgusting and demeaning to actual slaves to equate them with people being voluntarily employed. Slaves are owned and have no rights, which should not be trivialized to support class warfare nonsense.

Really. Some people need to check their moral compass.

No, it's a very apt analogy. Many people are slaves to their health care. They stay in jobs they hate, that don't pay well because one or more members of their families has a pre-existing condition. I know people in this situation.

If you don't make enough money to provide the basic necessities of life - food, shelter, clothing and medical care for your family. You are a wage slave with no bargaining power, and in the US, with its weak and toothless labour laws, and 11 million illigal immigrants ready to take whatever they can get, the low wage workers have never had so little bargaining power.

This is where government must step in to protect workers from such abuses.

Misusing the word "slave" that way is deeply offensive.

 

[boedicca]

You're full of shit, Skull Pilot. People hold jobs for insurance benefits everywhere, every day. It's exceptionally common. If you've never had to do this, you're probably a farmer--or have never actually been an employee.

"Most of us" have worked plenty of unsavory jobs in our lives to support our families. This is hardly unusual. Do you live on Mars or something?

Oh, and this--in America, health care has been managed and distributed for decades by health insurance companies. So, YES, they are effectively the same thing.

Doing an unsavory job is not slavery, bub. You might not like the type of work - but it is your choice to do it.

 

[Unkotare]

Yes, the workers need jobs, but Joe needs those workers just as much as they need the job.

Are you really this obtuse?

 

[Unkotare]

And yet, Germany does almost as good as the USA in every aspect. Shows how meaningles is the American anti-vacation mentality.

Uh, you haven't proven that Americans have an anti-vacation mentality, bub.

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

"Not so long ago"? Huh?

 

[Freemason9]

Uh, you haven't proven that Americans have an anti-vacation mentality, bub.

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

"Not so long ago"? Huh?

Slavery legally existed in the U.S. up until 1865 -- 148 years ago. No other industrialized nation even dreamed of keeping slaves that long.

 

[francoHFW]

Most US workers are screwed and trapped, and the arrogant, ignorant, compassion challenged,(racist?) dupes end up with nothing but stupid insults and idiotic talking points.

Luckily, the ridiculous Pubscam of a health system is being fixed (next, a living wage -$11=1968's min wage). A Pub health reform they call communist now! What a bunch of a-hole hypocrites and brainwashed morons. Hoping for your recovery, chumps.

 

[Unkotare]

Uh, you haven't proven that Americans have an anti-vacation mentality, bub.

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

The right to work states, which are mostly in the South, are an extension of slavery.

Are you proud of yourself for mocking the very real suffering of very real human beings who suffered under REAL slavery that way? Is it worth your little drama moment to piss on their memories and belittle what was taken from them and what they were put through? I'm sure your little political performance is much more significant.

You're a fucking disgrace.

 

[francoHFW]

Remain calm LOL

 

[Unkotare]

Most US workers are screwed and trapped, and the arrogant, ignorant, compassion challenged,(racist?) dupes end up with nothing but stupid insults and idiotic talking points.

Luckily, the ridiculous Pubscam of a health system is being fixed (next, a living wage -$11=1968's min wage). A Pub health reform they call communist now! What a bunch of a-hole hypocrites and brainwashed morons. Hoping for your recovery, chumps.

Still working on your GED, kid?

 

[boedicca]

Most US workers are screwed and trapped, and the arrogant, ignorant, compassion challenged,(racist?) dupes end up with nothing but stupid insults and idiotic talking points.

Your self-awareness is So Refreshing!

 

[francoHFW]

No private sector union power anymore, or greatest generation morality either, so only gov't can protect workers and customers from bottom line only, ethics challenged, shortsighted MBA idiots/swine.

 

[Unkotare]

Americans are actually wage slaves. You should remember that slavery was actually LEGAL in this country not so long ago, and the American media (controlled by corporate ownership) never discusses the topic of labor.

"Not so long ago"? Huh?

Slavery legally existed in the U.S. up until 1865 -- 148 years ago.

150 years is "not so long ago"?

 

[Nova78]

Why can't Americans have a vacation?

Because Obama takes them for you !