Why can't conservatives/GOP learn from history?

[imawhosure]

Despite the collapse of the Soviet Union, the failures of Castro's Cuba, and China's slow but inexorable movement away from a centrally planned economy toward a market economy, liberals have not learned from history and still believe socialism/marxism works.

Yeah, you name one liberal that supports a state run totalitarian economy and any aspects of marxism. Social democracies aren't marxist by the way.

I expected the usual No True Scotsman fallacy, and I would like to thank you for being so prompt.

Sure buddy, keep making yourself feel like a genius. I'm not the one claiming liberals want to emulate totalitarian state run economies.

Did you take into account our resources? Our population? Then what is the problem? Because we are being run by a bunch of pointy head social democracy.........no, degrowthers, and I am no genius, but I am smarter than you.

Hey, where is your "I do, I do?" You obviously want to emulate Europe, so tell these nice people on the board that is your intention.

Here, let me help you so your fingers do not get sore.........


DAVID42 wants America to look more like Europe and emulate their tax structure, political caste system, Fabian Socialism, and their way of life.

No need to thank me. I am just trying to heeeeeeeeelp you get responses for what you really want! Remember; always be transparent, just like Obama said to be.

 

[Dad2three]

here's some history the left refuses and denies;

Harding (R) inherted a depression, he cut taxes and Fed spending in 1/2, 18 month later, depression over, Roaring Twentys begin.
fdr (D) inherited a depression, he increased taxes and Fed spending to level unseen, 10 years later and WW2 later, depression over, no economic boom.

now, who did obama copy and why is it taking so long for the economy to really get going?

leftist learned from history that increasing taxes and spending slows the economy and forces more people to rely on the government for basic needs.

so please go fuck yourself you useless sheep

1921 and All That




Every once in a while I get comments and correspondence indicating that the right has found an unlikely economic hero: Warren Harding. The recovery from the 1920-21 recession supposedly demonstrates that deflation and hands-off monetary policy is the way to go.

But have the people making these arguments really looked at what happened back then? Or are they relying on vague impressions about a distant episode, with bad data, that has been spun as a confirmation of their beliefs?

OK, I’m not going to invest a lot in this. But even a cursory examination of the available data suggests that 1921 has few useful lessons for the kind of slump we’re facing now.


Brad DeLong has recently written up a clearer version of a story I’ve been telling for a while (actually since before the 2008 crisis) — namely, that there’s a big difference between inflation-fighting recessions, in which the Fed squeezes to bring inflation down, then relaxes — and recessions brought on by overstretch in debt and investment. The former tend to be V-shaped, with a rapid recovery once the Fed relents; the latter tend to be slow, because it’s much harder to push private spending higher than to stop holding it down.

And the 1920-21 recession was basically an inflation-fighting recession — although the Fed was trying to bring the level of prices, rather than the rate of change, down. What you had was a postwar bulge in prices, which was then reversed:

Money was tightened, then loosened again:

Discount rates are a problematic indicator, but here’s what happened to commercial paper rates:

And so there was a V-shaped recovery:

The deflation may have helped by increasing the real money supply — at least Meltzer thinks so (pdf) — but if so, the key point was that the economy was nowhere near the zero lower bound, so there was plenty of room for the conventional monetary channel to work.

All of this has zero relevance to an economy in our current situation, in which the recession was brought on by private overstretch, not tight money, and in which the zero lower bound is all too binding.

So do we have anything to learn from the macroeconomics of Warren Harding? No.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/1921-and-all-that/?_r=0

Typical responses so far from the right, as expected. Shocking. It doesn't matter the depth of the hole FDR or Obama inherited, why wasn't it fixed faster? lol

 

[occupied]

Conservationism is a quasi-religious belief system. Might as well ask why people still think the earth is only 6000 years old, you are not going to get a rational answer.

^^^ post most clueless about conservatism ever.

Take a good hard look in the mirror, everything you believe about economics and politics is a dogmatic belief in the same way little kids believe in Santa. If you are a real conservative you have never questioned conservatism.

 

[BluesLegend]

Conservationism is a quasi-religious belief system. Might as well ask why people still think the earth is only 6000 years old, you are not going to get a rational answer.

^^^ post most clueless about conservatism ever.

Take a good hard look in the mirror, everything you believe about economics and politics is a dogmatic belief in the same way little kids believe in Santa. If you are a real conservative you have never questioned conservatism.

What exactly are you foaming at the mouth about lib?

 

[occupied]

Conservationism is a quasi-religious belief system. Might as well ask why people still think the earth is only 6000 years old, you are not going to get a rational answer.

^^^ post most clueless about conservatism ever.

Take a good hard look in the mirror, everything you believe about economics and politics is a dogmatic belief in the same way little kids believe in Santa. If you are a real conservative you have never questioned conservatism.

What exactly are you foaming at the mouth about lib?

Telling you that an unexamined life is not worth living.

 

[Correll]

Conservationism is a quasi-religious belief system. Might as well ask why people still think the earth is only 6000 years old, you are not going to get a rational answer.

^^^ post most clueless about conservatism ever.

Take a good hard look in the mirror, everything you believe about economics and politics is a dogmatic belief in the same way little kids believe in Santa. If you are a real conservative you have never questioned conservatism.

What exactly are you foaming at the mouth about lib?

Telling you that an unexamined life is not worth living.

LOL!!!

You libs have all the self awareness of a turnip. YOu guys prove it all the time!

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Liberal ideas have no history other than failure and you think we can't learn from it?

 

[occupied]

Conservationism is a quasi-religious belief system. Might as well ask why people still think the earth is only 6000 years old, you are not going to get a rational answer.

^^^ post most clueless about conservatism ever.

Take a good hard look in the mirror, everything you believe about economics and politics is a dogmatic belief in the same way little kids believe in Santa. If you are a real conservative you have never questioned conservatism.

What exactly are you foaming at the mouth about lib?

Telling you that an unexamined life is not worth living.

LOL!!!

You libs have all the self awareness of a turnip. YOu guys prove it all the time!

Do you even know you exist or are you just a collection of knee-jerk reactions and gross appetites?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

^^^ post most clueless about conservatism ever.

Take a good hard look in the mirror, everything you believe about economics and politics is a dogmatic belief in the same way little kids believe in Santa. If you are a real conservative you have never questioned conservatism.

What exactly are you foaming at the mouth about lib?

Telling you that an unexamined life is not worth living.

LOL!!!

You libs have all the self awareness of a turnip. YOu guys prove it all the time!

Do you even know you exist or are you just a collection of knee-jerk reactions and gross appetites?

Have you self examined the failures of socialism? There are plenty to look at and none that are successful.

 

[occupied]

Take a good hard look in the mirror, everything you believe about economics and politics is a dogmatic belief in the same way little kids believe in Santa. If you are a real conservative you have never questioned conservatism.

What exactly are you foaming at the mouth about lib?

Telling you that an unexamined life is not worth living.

LOL!!!

You libs have all the self awareness of a turnip. YOu guys prove it all the time!

Do you even know you exist or are you just a collection of knee-jerk reactions and gross appetites?

Have you self examined the failures of socialism? There are plenty to look at and none that are successful.

Yes that social security, medicare, medicaid, food stamps, etc. is all going to just collapse any day now, why don't you hold your breath and wait for it?

 

[Dad2three]

Liberal ideas have no history other than failure and you think we can't learn from it?

New Deal set the stage for a new society. FDR made it easier for workers to unionize, and started taxing the rich at confiscatory levels. It didn't hurt that first the war and later the baby boom put everyone back to work. The result, as you can see above, was the creation of the American middle class. Between 1940 and 1970, the bottom 90 percent went from making, on average, $12,000 to $33,000. The top 1 percent, meanwhile, were stuck making "only" $300,000 this whole time. It's what economists call the "Great Compression," and it was a story about workers having the bargaining power to ask for higher wages and the rich not having much reason to ask for higher wages themselves. That's because top marginal tax rates were so high—at their peak, 94 percent—that it wasn't worth it for CEOs to pay themselves that much more. Besides, that was just something executives didn't do back then. George Romney, for example, turned down a $100,000 bonus in 1960—and those are unadjusted dollars—because he didn't think anyone needed to make that much more.

This chart explains everything you need to know about inequality - The Washington Post

 

[Old Rocks]

Despite the collapse of the Soviet Union, the failures of Castro's Cuba, and China's slow but inexorable movement away from a centrally planned economy toward a market economy, liberals have not learned from history and still believe socialism/marxism works.

Yeah, you name one liberal that supports a state run totalitarian economy and any aspects of marxism. Social democracies aren't marxist by the way.

Nope, and they aren't economic powerhouses either! The reason for that? Because they are Social democracies!

Who here wants to look like Europe, signify with a "I do, I do."

If Europe was sooooooooooooo wonderful, why they never would have come here, now would they. Did you see all those Americans going over to Europe in the 40s, 50s, and 60s? No, why not? Oh wait, I am wrong, forgive me-( We actually DID see a lot of Americans going over to Europe; American soldiers, to save Europes ass from European born NAZISM, FACISM, and COMMUNISM.

And what did Europe send to us as their gift? Why Fabian Socialism, the degrowth movement known far and wide as environmentalism, the welfare state, outrageous taxes, and out of sight fuel prices. And what is the NUMBER ONE argument that lefties use for these policies? "Europe does it, and so should we." See, FABIAN SOCIALISM. I know it, they know it, but better yet, YOU know it. And if you allow these idiots to turn us into Europe, then welcome to the end of the grand experiment that kicked everyones rearend, and now we can be like........oh I don't know, lets pick one...........France. Polly-vu-screw-you- lefties.

Germany is not an economic powerhouse? Man, just like most 'Conservatives' you are totally out of touch with reality.

Neither socialism or capitalism is successful by itself. Both have fatal internal flaws. However, using each as a tool, rather than a religion, and you get a successful system. National Parks, public libraries, public education, military, FDA, CDC, and the other alphabet soup agencies that regulate and protect us, are all socialist institutions. Businesses from the multi-nationals to the mom and pop grocery are capitalist institutions.

You don't like parts of the mix, that is what elections are about. You want to drown the government in a bathtub, go to Somalia. That is where you belong.

 

[Dad2three]

Take a good hard look in the mirror, everything you believe about economics and politics is a dogmatic belief in the same way little kids believe in Santa. If you are a real conservative you have never questioned conservatism.

What exactly are you foaming at the mouth about lib?

Telling you that an unexamined life is not worth living.

LOL!!!

You libs have all the self awareness of a turnip. YOu guys prove it all the time!

Do you even know you exist or are you just a collection of knee-jerk reactions and gross appetites?

Have you self examined the failures of socialism? There are plenty to look at and none that are successful.

EXCEPT the US, Germany, UK, Ireland, Sweden, etc...

 

[Dad2three]

Despite the collapse of the Soviet Union, the failures of Castro's Cuba, and China's slow but inexorable movement away from a centrally planned economy toward a market economy, liberals have not learned from history and still believe socialism/marxism works.

Yeah, you name one liberal that supports a state run totalitarian economy and any aspects of marxism. Social democracies aren't marxist by the way.

Nope, and they aren't economic powerhouses either! The reason for that? Because they are Social democracies!

Who here wants to look like Europe, signify with a "I do, I do."

If Europe was sooooooooooooo wonderful, why they never would have come here, now would they. Did you see all those Americans going over to Europe in the 40s, 50s, and 60s? No, why not? Oh wait, I am wrong, forgive me-( We actually DID see a lot of Americans going over to Europe; American soldiers, to save Europes ass from European born NAZISM, FACISM, and COMMUNISM.

And what did Europe send to us as their gift? Why Fabian Socialism, the degrowth movement known far and wide as environmentalism, the welfare state, outrageous taxes, and out of sight fuel prices. And what is the NUMBER ONE argument that lefties use for these policies? "Europe does it, and so should we." See, FABIAN SOCIALISM. I know it, they know it, but better yet, YOU know it. And if you allow these idiots to turn us into Europe, then welcome to the end of the grand experiment that kicked everyones rearend, and now we can be like........oh I don't know, lets pick one...........France. Polly-vu-screw-you- lefties.

Germany is not an economic powerhouse? Man, just like most 'Conservatives' you are totally out of touch with reality.

Neither socialism or capitalism is successful by itself. Both have fatal internal flaws. However, using each as a tool, rather than a religion, and you get a successful system. National Parks, public libraries, public education, military, FDA, CDC, and the other alphabet soup agencies that regulate and protect us, are all socialist institutions. Businesses from the multi-nationals to the mom and pop grocery are capitalist institutions.

You don't like parts of the mix, that is what elections are about. You want to drown the government in a bathtub, go to Somalia. That is where you belong.

Yep, Germany about 40% the size of US economy but has about 95% of the same exports numbers. Horrible there. Free (less than a grand a semester) university education, min 5 weeks vacation, paid child leave of 6 months... The posters just don't get it. Of course they don't have as many "job creators" as the US worth billions!

 

[The sheeple sea]

You really can't help a group of people who call you a liar when you give them facts. Or who claim all socialist countries have failed, when they are currently some of the most prosperous countries in the world.

I think the best evidence I've seen is when you show them stats on anything and get accused of "liberal spin math". There's one kind of math, we get it, 8th grade was tough for you.

And you can bring up prosperous country after prosperous country that uses a mix of capitalism and socialism (like we already do) and it doesn't matter, socialism = communism because fox news commentators say so. And you and your precious "math" and "graphs" and "facts" are liberal bullshit. Just be glad their voter base is at an all time low and let them rage incoherently to their dogs in their trailers.

 

[BluesLegend]

Conservationism is a quasi-religious belief system. Might as well ask why people still think the earth is only 6000 years old, you are not going to get a rational answer.

^^^ post most clueless about conservatism ever.

Take a good hard look in the mirror, everything you believe about economics and politics is a dogmatic belief in the same way little kids believe in Santa. If you are a real conservative you have never questioned conservatism.

What exactly are you foaming at the mouth about lib?

Telling you that an unexamined life is not worth living.

I'm a 2 percenter, life is good.

 

[BluesLegend]

Take a good hard look in the mirror, everything you believe about economics and politics is a dogmatic belief in the same way little kids believe in Santa. If you are a real conservative you have never questioned conservatism.

What exactly are you foaming at the mouth about lib?

Telling you that an unexamined life is not worth living.

LOL!!!

You libs have all the self awareness of a turnip. YOu guys prove it all the time!

Do you even know you exist or are you just a collection of knee-jerk reactions and gross appetites?

Have you self examined the failures of socialism? There are plenty to look at and none that are successful.

Rational thought and socialism cannot coexist in the same brain.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Despite the collapse of the Soviet Union, the failures of Castro's Cuba, and China's slow but inexorable movement away from a centrally planned economy toward a market economy, liberals have not learned from history and still believe socialism/marxism works.

Yeah, you name one liberal that supports a state run totalitarian economy and any aspects of marxism. Social democracies aren't marxist by the way.

right thur

 

[Two Thumbs]

here's some history the left refuses and denies;

Harding (R) inherted a depression, he cut taxes and Fed spending in 1/2, 18 month later, depression over, Roaring Twentys begin.
fdr (D) inherited a depression, he increased taxes and Fed spending to level unseen, 10 years later and WW2 later, depression over, no economic boom.

now, who did obama copy and why is it taking so long for the economy to really get going?

leftist learned from history that increasing taxes and spending slows the economy and forces more people to rely on the government for basic needs.

so please go fuck yourself you useless sheep

1921 and All That




Every once in a while I get comments and correspondence indicating that the right has found an unlikely economic hero: Warren Harding. The recovery from the 1920-21 recession supposedly demonstrates that deflation and hands-off monetary policy is the way to go.

But have the people making these arguments really looked at what happened back then? Or are they relying on vague impressions about a distant episode, with bad data, that has been spun as a confirmation of their beliefs?

OK, I’m not going to invest a lot in this. But even a cursory examination of the available data suggests that 1921 has few useful lessons for the kind of slump we’re facing now.


Brad DeLong has recently written up a clearer version of a story I’ve been telling for a while (actually since before the 2008 crisis) — namely, that there’s a big difference between inflation-fighting recessions, in which the Fed squeezes to bring inflation down, then relaxes — and recessions brought on by overstretch in debt and investment. The former tend to be V-shaped, with a rapid recovery once the Fed relents; the latter tend to be slow, because it’s much harder to push private spending higher than to stop holding it down.

And the 1920-21 recession was basically an inflation-fighting recession — although the Fed was trying to bring the level of prices, rather than the rate of change, down. What you had was a postwar bulge in prices, which was then reversed:

Money was tightened, then loosened again:

Discount rates are a problematic indicator, but here’s what happened to commercial paper rates:

And so there was a V-shaped recovery:

The deflation may have helped by increasing the real money supply — at least Meltzer thinks so (pdf) — but if so, the key point was that the economy was nowhere near the zero lower bound, so there was plenty of room for the conventional monetary channel to work.

All of this has zero relevance to an economy in our current situation, in which the recession was brought on by private overstretch, not tight money, and in which the zero lower bound is all too binding.

So do we have anything to learn from the macroeconomics of Warren Harding? No.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/1921-and-all-that/?_r=0

Typical responses so far from the right, as expected. Shocking. It doesn't matter the depth of the hole FDR or Obama inherited, why wasn't it fixed faster? lol

omg, people are so dumb.

fdr had the longest depression ever and obama copied his ideas with similar results and you stand by those shitty results.

thanks for the grafts, they were cute.

end result is, let people keep what they earn so the economy can grow.

taxing the fuck out of everything is a failed idea world wide.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

Despite the collapse of the Soviet Union, the failures of Castro's Cuba, and China's slow but inexorable movement away from a centrally planned economy toward a market economy, liberals have not learned from history and still believe socialism/marxism works.

Yeah, you name one liberal that supports a state run totalitarian economy and any aspects of marxism. Social democracies aren't marxist by the way.

President fuckin Obama. Does that count? I could start naming the entire Democratic Party but I only have a few hours. How about we just start listing any randomn democrat we can find.