Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[Dr Grump]

Step One: Tell your daughters to keep their legs shut and your sons to keep their dicks in their pants if they're not ready to be responsible for a baby.

That would end 93% of all abortions.

I don't agree, you're going against basic human instinct to tell people age 15-20 something (or whatever age) to not want to have sex, completely unrealistic.

So your whole big plan to reduce abortions to zero is more talk and education about sex, how babies are made, how much work they are, but it's not going to EVER involve saying, "Don't make babies"?

THIS is what you want us to "come together" with you on: fucking makes babies, but it's unreasonable to expect you to avoid it, abortion is a bad thing, but you can do it any time you want, as many times as you want, for any reason.

And your solution is.....?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I don't agree, you're going against basic human instinct to tell people age 15-20 something (or whatever age) to not want to have sex, completely unrealistic.

Yeah, cuz we all know that 15-20 year old kids must be allowed to do anything they want, and a good parent just accepts the fact that they will engage in dangerous behavior...

This is why we turn over our bank accounts and car keys to them as soon as they turn 15! Cuz after all, it's against basic human instinct to tell a kid "no! That's dangerous!"

I see, so in your mind telling a kid no=it won't happen?

My point is 95%+ of people have sex or want to have sex and the chance doesn't come up before they're able to have kids and that's not changing, so a realistic idea is a little better.

YOU seem to think telling them "Sex makes babies, but do it anyway" is going to help, so how realistic is THAT?

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, I can prove mine.

No, you can prove what happened 37 years ago. You cannot prove your predictions that the reverse will happen if Roe were overturned. But, go ahead and pretend you can. No one will be able to pull you out of your fantasy world.

Immie

Well, um, history is generally where one looks for indications of how people are going to behave in a certain type of situation, as opposed to . . . oh, I'm sorry, WHAT is the evidence the whole "people will have millions of black market abortions" argument is based on? I'm still waiting to hear what that is.

 

[manifold]

So JB, which better describes your position on the abortion issue:

A. pro-choice

B. pro-life

 

[Immanuel]

No, I can prove mine.

No, you can prove what happened 37 years ago. You cannot prove your predictions that the reverse will happen if Roe were overturned. But, go ahead and pretend you can. No one will be able to pull you out of your fantasy world.

Immie

Well, um, history is generally where one looks for indications of how people are going to behave in a certain type of situation, as opposed to . . . oh, I'm sorry, WHAT is the evidence the whole "people will have millions of black market abortions" argument is based on? I'm still waiting to hear what that is.

We have lived through nearly 40 years of this country promoting abortion. We have drugs like RU-486. We have a nation of people who have been taught that there is nothing at all wrong with having an abortion. Things have changed in the last 40 years.

Not only that but it is a leap of faith (a very large leap) to believe that the number of abortions as a percentage of the number of pregnancies skyrocketed in 1973. What really happened is that abortions became legal and it no longer became a crime to have an abortion. Abortions began to be reported rather than hidden.

There is no proof of what Allie keeps preaching. If Roe were overturned the exact opposite of that is what would happen. Women would go right on having abortions. They would not report them and the number of reported abortions would fall... in the meantime, the same number of children would die.

And the pro-life movement loses, because the number of deaths doesn't change, but at least we won the frigging debate! Abortions are now illegal, babies still die, but hot damn we win the debate. Big frigging deal.

Immie

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So JB, which better describes your position on the abortion issue:

A. pro-choice

B. pro-life

I should suspect both, with everyone else.

There is no proof of what Allie keeps preaching. If Roe were overturned the exact opposite of that is what would happen. Women would go right on having abortions. They would not report them and the number of reported abortions would fall... in the meantime, the same number of children would die.

Correct.

 

[poet]

Now hold on there a sec. Having an abortion is not an easy thing to do. It is no picnic, I guarantee you. I dont have to defend myself when it comes to my body. Wanna call me a murderer? Go ahead. Ive called myself much worse when I had it done many many MANY years ago. Its nobodies business why I had it done and I answer to nobody on why I did it.

Say what you will. Unless you are a woman....you have no clue.

Wrong. All people have a right to have an opinion about the ending prematurely of a human life. I will grant that currently it is totally legal to do so. But that does not change the basic facts. A human life was ended prematurely by design of another Human.

I and others find that unacceptable and believe it should not be legal to simply kill another human because it may be inconvenient to the mother of the child. Technically it is not homicide since that definition includes that the act is illegal. It is murder though. Just legal murder.

It is not a human "being", which means a viable personage, with rights and consideration afforded human beings until it is born. A fetus doesn't have a right to life. A baby does. Morons.

 

[Immanuel]

So JB, which better describes your position on the abortion issue:

A. pro-choice

B. pro-life

I should suspect both, with everyone else.

There is no proof of what Allie keeps preaching. If Roe were overturned the exact opposite of that is what would happen. Women would go right on having abortions. They would not report them and the number of reported abortions would fall... in the meantime, the same number of children would die.

Correct.

But, by God, Pro-lifers like myself would have won the debate and the rest o' you can just go on sucking golf balls because we win and when everything is said and done, that IS all that matters. Ain't it? Oh wait, are there not kids lives involved?

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

So JB, which better describes your position on the abortion issue:

A. pro-choice

B. pro-life

I should suspect both, with everyone else.

There is no proof of what Allie keeps preaching. If Roe were overturned the exact opposite of that is what would happen. Women would go right on having abortions. They would not report them and the number of reported abortions would fall... in the meantime, the same number of children would die.

Correct.

Really? Where's the proof of THAT? At least I can provide a semblance of real information and numbers that arguably support my theory...that legalized abortion actually puts children at HIGHER risk of 1. Being aborted or 2. Abuse/neglect if they're not.

There is absolutely NO evidence of any kind, not even the most negligible, that legalized abortion REDUCES abortion numbers, or that if abortion were illegal there would be the same number of abortions, except illegal and medically fraught with danger.

In fact, that theory is so ridiculous, even the most rabid pro-abortion proponents...Guttmacher and PP, don't put voice to it. They can't; even their ridiculously incomplete and pretend numbers can't be twisted to prove it.

So tell me, how can you sleep at night knowing you are completely fabricating a story in order to justify legalized slaughter of our most vulnerable population? Doesn't it give you pause when you dismiss the evidence which points to the polar opposite of what you claim? Do you dismiss all evidence in other areas of your life, if the facts don't jibe with your world view? How can a person live that way?

 

[Dr Grump]

So tell me, how can you sleep at night knowing you are completely fabricating a story in order to justify legalized slaughter of our most vulnerable population? Doesn't it give you pause when you dismiss the evidence which points to the polar opposite of what you claim? Do you dismiss all evidence in other areas of your life, if the facts don't jibe with your world view? How can a person live that way?

At the end of the day, you see these foetus's as human being, while others don't. That's the bottom line. I consider the US part of the civilised world, yet they are the only country in that spectrum that has this debate. The rest of us have moved on, albeit with a very small minority in most countries objecting to abortions.

The reason the US is on a different plain to the rest of us is due mainly to the religious zealotry of the Fundie Christians. I'm not saying that all people who are anti abortion are Christians, or even fundie Christians, but the vast majority are. And once you start with that argument - and you do fit that bill Allie - then you lose. Keep your religious beliefs out of other peoples' business.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

And who/what exactly is the ‘Pro-Abortion Crowd’? What evidence is there they’re not being ‘honest’? About what? Life begins at conception? Abortion is wrong?

As far as I know everyone’s opposed to abortion. Some, however, understand the Constitution prohibits the state from banning abortion as it’s a violation of privacy rights. Acknowledging and accepting that fact doesn’t mitigate opposition to the procedure.

 

[JBeukema]

It is not a human "being"

Says the chattle

Margaret Sanger, anyone?

  –noun 1.any individual of the genus Homo, especially a member of the species Homo sapiens.

, which means a viable personage

Bo, it doesn't

  –noun 1.any individual of the genus Homo, especially a member of the species Homo sapiens.

with rights

Says the chattel...


You heard it hear, folks: poet insists ******* weren't human beings until the 1960s

 

[Mr.Nick]

Does a woman knowingly murder a child when she goes to a doctor and asks him to stick a forecepts in his or her skull??

Yes..

Is that motherfucking first degree murder??? absolutely fucking yes....

The pro-abortion croweds argument may be that of some fucking lunatic that is on one of one of those judge shows thats on TV where some retard says; "yes yo honna I threw the TV through hiz windowh but only because he has my DVD playah."

Abortion is worse than that because a female is not only thinking about herself (DVD "playah") but is throwing the TV through the window (abortion) and the car is the victim (fetus)...

Only way I can put it for peons..

 

[JBeukema]

So tell me, how can you sleep at night knowing you are completely fabricating a story in order to justify legalized slaughter of our most vulnerable population? Doesn't it give you pause when you dismiss the evidence which points to the polar opposite of what you claim? Do you dismiss all evidence in other areas of your life, if the facts don't jibe with your world view? How can a person live that way?

At the end of the day, you see these foetus's as human being, while others don't

Sorry, Earth is not flat. There is no room for opinion, only for facts.

You don't get to have a flat earth, creationism in science class, or non-human babies begotten by humans whose DNA mutates at birth, causing them to become human


Why can't you people ever be honest?

 

[Dr Grump]

Does a woman knowingly murder a child when she goes to a doctor and asks him to stick a forecepts in his or her skull??

Yes..

Is that motherfucking first degree murder??? absolutely fucking yes....

The pro-abortion croweds argument may be that of some fucking lunatic that is on one of one of those judge shows thats on TV where some retard says; "yes yo honna I threw the TV through hiz windowh but only because he has my DVD playah."

Abortion is worse than that because a female is not only thinking about herself (DVD "playah") but is throwing the TV through the window (abortion) and the car is the victim (fetus)...

Only way I can put it for peons..

The law in most rational countries disagree with your premise. There is a reason for that....

 

[Mr.Nick]

Does a woman knowingly murder a child when she goes to a doctor and asks him to stick a forecepts in his or her skull??

Yes..

Is that motherfucking first degree murder??? absolutely fucking yes....

The pro-abortion croweds argument may be that of some fucking lunatic that is on one of one of those judge shows thats on TV where some retard says; "yes yo honna I threw the TV through hiz windowh but only because he has my DVD playah."

Abortion is worse than that because a female is not only thinking about herself (DVD "playah") but is throwing the TV through the window (abortion) and the car is the victim (fetus)...

Only way I can put it for peons..

The law in most rational countries disagree with your premise. There is a reason for that....

In what universe is any law rational??

BTW its not most countries...

Don't even try me...

 

[AllieBaba]

So tell me, how can you sleep at night knowing you are completely fabricating a story in order to justify legalized slaughter of our most vulnerable population? Doesn't it give you pause when you dismiss the evidence which points to the polar opposite of what you claim? Do you dismiss all evidence in other areas of your life, if the facts don't jibe with your world view? How can a person live that way?

At the end of the day, you see these foetus's as human being, while others don't. That's the bottom line. I consider the US part of the civilised world, yet they are the only country in that spectrum that has this debate. The rest of us have moved on, albeit with a very small minority in most countries objecting to abortions.

The reason the US is on a different plain to the rest of us is due mainly to the religious zealotry of the Fundie Christians. I'm not saying that all people who are anti abortion are Christians, or even fundie Christians, but the vast majority are. And once you start with that argument - and you do fit that bill Allie - then you lose. Keep your religious beliefs out of other peoples' business.

I didn't mention God. You did. So I think perhaps you're more preoccupied with religion than I am.

The definition of murder has nothing to do with religion.

What you would like to do is re-define murder, as you've re-defined sexuality, marriage, and truth...so that people are released to legally prune society...i.e., kill off "parasites" like the unborn of poor and minority women, like mental defectives, and old people who can't take care of themselves.

The fact that I find this repugnant really doesn't have a lot to do with religion. Recognizing and abhorring murder is not forcing religion down anyone's throat, not by any stretch of the (sane) imagination.

 

[Mr.Nick]

There is an old saying - it goes: its not what you believe (or whats rational) its what you can prove.

Well, libfucks have turned that into a circus...

Republicans too for that matter..

 

[AllieBaba]

Does a woman knowingly murder a child when she goes to a doctor and asks him to stick a forecepts in his or her skull??

Yes..

Is that motherfucking first degree murder??? absolutely fucking yes....

The pro-abortion croweds argument may be that of some fucking lunatic that is on one of one of those judge shows thats on TV where some retard says; "yes yo honna I threw the TV through hiz windowh but only because he has my DVD playah."

Abortion is worse than that because a female is not only thinking about herself (DVD "playah") but is throwing the TV through the window (abortion) and the car is the victim (fetus)...

Only way I can put it for peons..

The law in most rational countries disagree with your premise. There is a reason for that....

What the hell is a *rational* country?

What is an *irrational* country? Names, please.

 

[Dr Grump]

So tell me, how can you sleep at night knowing you are completely fabricating a story in order to justify legalized slaughter of our most vulnerable population? Doesn't it give you pause when you dismiss the evidence which points to the polar opposite of what you claim? Do you dismiss all evidence in other areas of your life, if the facts don't jibe with your world view? How can a person live that way?

At the end of the day, you see these foetus's as human being, while others don't

Sorry, Earth is not flat. There is no room for opinion, only for facts.

You don't get to have a flat earth, creationism in science class, or non-human babies begotten by humans whose DNA mutates at birth, causing them to become human


Why can't you people ever be honest?

What part is dishonest. I am not for abortions, and in my lifetime, when asked for an opinion by a pregnant woman if they should have one, I've said give it up for adoption.

I have a very pragmatic opinion on those that do abort in the sense of what it actually entails and who/what is involved.

IMO there are already too many humans on this earth. The place is struggling to breath at the best of times - visit any major city in Asia if you don't believe me, or even some places in Europe and even your country.

As far as I can see the foetus has never been a living, breathing entity, however, once it gets past a certain stage - six months say - the decision should have already been made.

At the end of the day, where the anti-abortionist lose their argument (IMO), is that they make the main plank as being about late term abortions, when in fact, they are a miniscule amount of the overall abortion rate, and an even smaller amount of that miniscule amount are done for 'convenience'....

At the end of the day, the likes of yourselves and the dominantrix and the Baba use emotive issues, and you somehow think your argument makes you more human/humane than those that don't