Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[CandySlice]

It's not about dead babies. Nobody wants to see dead babies. What the right to life groups all have in common is they are usually headed up by men. Men that want to rescind women's rights and send us all back to the kitchen. It's not about abortion as much as it is about taking away the rights we women have fought so hard to achieve. Up until 1920 a woman was little more than chattle and could be dismissed and thrown out with the garbage or bartered like cattle. We've come a long way and not the Government nor anybody else needs to concern themselves with my bush! I'm managing fine, thank you.
What a woman does with her body is between her, her doctor and her God. It is nobody elses business.

 

[JBeukema]

What a woman does with her body is between her, her doctor and her God. It is nobody elses business.

Agreed. As for what she does to another human being, well that's another matter, isn't it?

 

[snjmom]

So are you saying that all women of Sanger's era were racists, and she was just a product of her times?

Pretty much. Wouldn't say it was absolute but a majority of the population? Yes.

You do know she believed in forced sterilization of undesirables, right...do you think everyone wanted that?

No, not everyone wanted it. Many were content to watch the slums fester, to see women die after producing 15 pregnancies with 6 or 10 surviving children.


And the pendulum is swinging that way again.

The slums are much larger than they were now. So how did abortion help with reducing numbers in the slums?

It didn't.

Sanger was a fanatic, as are most proponents of baby killing and forced sterilization.

You must be insane. Please look at population statistics for the turn of the century and compare the percentages with today. Then look at average family size.

As for your educator/priest comparison, how is a study of abuse in an educational setting offer a comparison to a religious setting? You do know that the majority of abuse happens within a family context, right? You are also aware that the past two decades have seen a decline in both physical and sexual abuse, right?

Could that possibly be because we have tried as a society to turn away from the only sluts and whores have sex meme?

Where is your proof that turn of the century folk believed in the equality of the races? Is that enshrined in the Jim Crow statutes? The Chinese Exclusion Act? I'll grant you the Progressives, but do you want to base your argument on commie sympathizing?

 

[snjmom]

What a woman does with her body is between her, her doctor and her God. It is nobody elses business.

Agreed. As for what she does to another human being, well that's another matter, isn't it?

And when that other human being exists inside another human being, then it exists on the permission of it's host, no?

That is basic biology.

 

[JBeukema]

If you chose to have sex, you invited the possibility of pregnancy. Time to grow up. If you're big enough to fuck, you're big enough to take responsibility for your child. Spare us the bullshit.

 

[Immanuel]

It's not about dead babies. Nobody wants to see dead babies. What the right to life groups all have in common is they are usually headed up by men. Men that want to rescind women's rights and send us all back to the kitchen. It's not about abortion as much as it is about taking away the rights we women have fought so hard to achieve. Up until 1920 a woman was little more than chattle and could be dismissed and thrown out with the garbage or bartered like cattle. We've come a long way and not the Government nor anybody else needs to concern themselves with my bush! I'm managing fine, thank you.
What a woman does with her body is between her, her doctor and her God. It is nobody elses business.

Please cite where you get your information in regards to what men want. Because I think you are either dead wrong or not being honest.

Also, there are two (or more) bodies involved in every abortion. The mother and at least one of her offspring. The body of the offspring is not hers nor is its life.

Immie

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why Can't the Pro-Abortion Crowd Be Honest?

Whom exactly are you challenging to be ‘honest’? I know of no one who is ‘pro-abortion,’ including myself.

Remember also that a woman doesn’t have a right to an abortion, but all Americans have a Constitutional right to privacy – and in that context of privacy the state may not prohibit a woman from having an abortion.

Now, you may consider scientific, ethical, or religious doctrine when making a decision as to whether to have an abortion or not, but that’s a personal matter, decided by the individual, not to be interfered with by the state.

And although the issue is unresolved in the scientific community and by ethicists, the legal aspect of the issue is settled – which is all that matters from a public policy standpoint.

See:

Griswold v. Connecticut, 1965

Roe v Wade, 1973

Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey, 1992

 

[snjmom]

If you chose to have sex, you invited the possibility of pregnancy. Time to grow up. If you're big enough to fuck, you're big enough to take responsibility for your child. Spare us the bullshit.

Bullshit. The choice is celibacy or as many children as nature decides to throw at you?

Any other aspect of life that you refuse redress on?

If you drive and get in an accident, no hospital for you, you took that risk on?

If you eat red meat and have a heart attack, tough shit?

I believe in taking care of your children. Sometimes that means not having one while it's still in the fetal stage. Even if you do have sex.

 

[snjmom]

]
Also, there are two (or more) bodies involved in every abortion. The mother and at least one of her offspring. The body of the offspring is not hers nor is its life.

Immie

Nor does the body of the woman belong to the offspring to do with as it pleases. Again, anytime you can remove the offspring and find an alternative incubation method, feel free to outlaw abortion.

Until then, direct your energies at caring for the living and preventing unwanted pregnancy.

 

[JBeukema]

If you chose to have sex, you invited the possibility of pregnancy. Time to grow up. If you're big enough to fuck, you're big enough to take responsibility for your child. Spare us the bullshit.

Bullshit. The choice is celibacy or as many children as nature decides to throw at you?

Yes, if you're retarded.

Why is it Democrats' children can never find a condom or the pill or the foam, but can always find someone willing to kill their child?

If you drive and get in an accident, no hospital for you, you took that risk on?

If you drive 100MPH on the wrong side of the road, yes. If you're old enough to fuck, you're old enough to the responsible and take reasonable measures to prevented unwanted pregnancy. If you're old enough to drive, you're old enough to drive in the right side of the fucking road and obey the speed limit.

I believe in taking care of your children.

By killing them?

Killing your children in taking care of them?

War is peace

Freedom is slavery

Ignorance is strength...

Sometimes that means not having one

Condom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

while it's still in the fetal stage.

If there's a foetus, you already have a child, genius.

 

[Immanuel]

If you chose to have sex, you invited the possibility of pregnancy. Time to grow up. If you're big enough to fuck, you're big enough to take responsibility for your child. Spare us the bullshit.

Bullshit. The choice is celibacy or as many children as nature decides to throw at you?

Any other aspect of life that you refuse redress on?

If you drive and get in an accident, no hospital for you, you took that risk on?

If you eat red meat and have a heart attack, tough shit?

I believe in taking care of your children. Sometimes that means not having one while it's still in the fetal stage. Even if you do have sex.

Are you saying that birth control is not effective? Are you saying the ONLY way to prevent pregnancy is abstinence? Abstinence is, I would agree the only 100% guaranteed way to prevent unwanted pregnancies and STD's but I was pretty certain there were other methods that had pretty decent records to rely on.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

]
Also, there are two (or more) bodies involved in every abortion. The mother and at least one of her offspring. The body of the offspring is not hers nor is its life.

Immie

Nor does the body of the woman belong to the offspring to do with as it pleases. Again, anytime you can remove the offspring and find an alternative incubation method, feel free to outlaw abortion.

Until then, direct your energies at caring for the living and preventing unwanted pregnancy.

You're not my mom. I do not have to obey you. I'll direct my energies where and in however many different directions I care to direct them... thank you very much.

Immie

 

[Shooter]

People who defend abortion don't call their baby a human or a living being because by doing so makes them face reality. It's easier for them to defend abortion and have one if they believe in their minds it's not alive. It desensitizes them and the situation and makes what they do seem justified.

 

[snjmom]

Killing your children in taking care of them?

In some circumstances, yes. If by killing one child I save three, that is taking care of my children. A fetus is not a child, it's a fetus. A blastocyst is not a child it's a blastocyst. Both may be children in the future, but they aren't at that stage of development.

Maybe they can't find a condom or foam or the pill because they have been told that only sluts and whores have sex and since they aren't sluts and whores planning to have sex, they don't need them? That and Planned Parenthood has been shut down so they can't afford it. Are you saying no Republican children ever have abortions? Since the recorded data doesn't indicate that to be true.

So you are on record that one can only mitigate the risks that JBeukema thinks should be mitigated and no others? Does your universe extend beyond your person?

Immie, what I'm saying is that legal abortion needs to be available in the event that whatever form of birth control is used, fails. Even if the only form is self-control.

The bottom line is that I am willing to use deadly force to protect my body and property and that not even my own offspring have any right to them. Period.

 

[Immanuel]

People who defend abortion don't call their baby a human or a living being because by doing so makes them face reality. It's easier for them to defend abortion and have one if they believe in their minds it's not alive. It desensitizes them and the situation and makes what they do seem justified.

Not to mention the more they say it, the more likely they are to convince others sitting on the fence that a fetus is just a clump of cells and is not human.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Killing your children in taking care of them?

In some circumstances, yes. If by killing one child I save three, that is taking care of my children. A fetus is not a child, it's a fetus. A blastocyst is not a child it's a blastocyst. Both may be children in the future, but they aren't at that stage of development.

Maybe they can't find a condom or foam or the pill because they have been told that only sluts and whores have sex and since they aren't sluts and whores planning to have sex, they don't need them? That and Planned Parenthood has been shut down so they can't afford it. Are you saying no Republican children ever have abortions? Since the recorded data doesn't indicate that to be true.

So you are on record that one can only mitigate the risks that JBeukema thinks should be mitigated and no others? Does your universe extend beyond your person?

Immie, what I'm saying is that legal abortion needs to be available in the event that whatever form of birth control is used, fails. Even if the only form is self-control.

The bottom line is that I am willing to use deadly force to protect my body and property and that not even my own offspring have any right to them. Period.

Mom,

Have you seen a post of mine calling for abortion to be made illegal?

If you have only been reading my posts on this site and not posts that I made 10 years ago on another site, then no, you have never read that from me. I've grown from the thought that all who support abortion were "pro-abortion" baby-killers to the realization that most of you really want the same thing I want... fewer abortion and in a perfect world, no abortions at all.

That does not mean that I believe we as a nation should promote the killing of babies as we now do.

Immie

 

[sinister59]

What a lie. But of course, if you're to promote the killing of children, you have to lie. There is no way to defend it, otherwise.
There are many arguments against it. The primary ones are that the abortion system protects child rapists, and devalues the lives of children.

I want to hear those arguments, then, in explicit detail.

So you're pretending you never read her posts earlier in this thread?

Or are you just being dishonest again, as is your wont?

if a women doesn't want the pregnancy ? screw you .
who are you to tell anyone if or if not they can have sex ?
where dose your nose come in on other people lives ?
now I know you have adopted so many unwonted fertilized eggs and orphanages know you by sight as a prolific adopter .

but where do you get off judging others?

your not carrying the it, I'm not , no labor pain for me or you ? we're not going to take responsibility to raise it .
wheres your right ?

 

[snjmom]

Who "promotes" killing babies?

Being available if necessary is far different than promoting it. The only abortion advertising I have seen is to keep it safe and legal and anti-abortion. I've yet to see a 2 for 1 deal or how having one will make you more attractive etc, etc.

Would you say the medical industry promotes amputation because it is safe and legal?

 

[Immanuel]

I want to hear those arguments, then, in explicit detail.

So you're pretending you never read her posts earlier in this thread?

Or are you just being dishonest again, as is your wont?

if a women doesn't want the pregnancy ? screw you .
who are you to tell anyone if or if not they can have sex ?
where dose your nose come in on other people lives ?
now I know you have adopted so many unwonted fertilized eggs and orphanages know you by sight as a prolific adopter .

but where do you get off judging others?

your not carrying the it, I'm not , no labor pain for me or you ? we're not going to take responsibility to raise it .
wheres your right ?

I was unaware that JB ever said a person could not have sex. I do recall him saying that the product of sex is biological life. I also recall him asking those who are pro-choice to defend their positions, which I don't believe any have done successfully and few have done even remotely well.

Shame on you JB for forbidding sex!

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Who "promotes" killing babies?

Being available if necessary is far different than promoting it. The only abortion advertising I have seen is to keep it safe and legal and anti-abortion. I've yet to see a 2 for 1 deal or how having one will make you more attractive etc, etc.

Would you say the medical industry promotes amputation because it is safe and legal?

Planned Parenthood promotes killing babies.

This nation by supporting Planned Parenthood promotes abortion. Planned Parenthood IS abortion in this nation. It IS the voice of abortion in this nation and it MOST certainly does promote abortion, not even just the right to abortion. It promotes abortion as a good thing... no a great thing.

As for the logical fallacy of the medical industry promoting amputation, they don't go out and tell every woman they have the right to an amputation. When an amputation is warranted, it is a necessity not a "choice".

Immie