Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[CandySlice]

Well said TL.

One of the reasons I tried to avoid CS's honesty was because I do believe it is a private decision. I do not like to sound like I am condemning anyone for their choice. I'll argue with them about their viewpoint... but, when CS became honest, then anything and everything I say from that point on begins to sound judgmental. At that point, I seemed to be damned if I do and damned if I don't discuss it.

I have my beliefs about the issue and if I had my choice in the matter, both sides would be working together to make abortion rare. Both sides need to agree to come together and brainstorm on the issue. They need to be willing to work together. Unfortunately, the two parties won't allow that to happen.

Immie

I don't really think taking away a womans right's as declared by Roe vs Wade is a step forward. As for telling others what to do, don't be silly. I'm all about NOT doing that. But the law is in place. Why rescind it? And to who's benefit would that be if we did? Im for GIVING choices, NOT taking them away.
As for sex education, why is it we also want to hold back on that? Somebody (woof woof) said indoctrinate the kids with sexual thruths as we do with the importance of sports. I really like that idea. Take the mystery and bugaboo out of it and lay some facts on our kids instead of what I've found here today. 'Oh, we can't talk about that, we might hurt somebodies feelings' Trust me, the kids are probably wiser about it than any of us are. And for those of you that found the first part of my story disconcerting, God knows the second part would kill you so I'll spare you.

I'll ask you the same question I asked snjmom a couple hours ago: where have you seen me promote making abortion illegal? Where have I called for overturning Roe?

Also, I am a proponent of Sex Ed and yes, I am one of those evil men that believe we should teach abstinence... ALONG with sex education... alongside it not in place of.

You are falling into the liberal trap of putting words in people's mouths.

Did I say I found your story disconcerting? No, I said I don't want to be an asshole to you, so I would rather not discuss it with you. At least at a point when I have only just "met" you. I know nothing about you.

The last person that was honest on this site, flipped out several times when she became honest.

So sue me for trying to be sensitive to your feelings.

Immie

Now Immy, settle down. Im not trying to make an enemy of you. I would just rather speak from experience when I can and after all it was a long time ago. But it does give me an insight you may not have. If I sounded like I was getting rough with you, Im sorry. Candy Slice is also an attitude. You'll appreciate it someday when we are troll battling together and I show you what I can REALLY do when I get fired up!(wink)
How could honesty flip somebody out? I did my flipping out years ago. It's out of my system. We hope!!

 

[CandySlice]

Fair enough. So I will leave you with this. Until you grow a vagina of your own keep your nose out of mine.

If you don't mind, I would prefer not to comment on the rest of this post. Nothing I can say will sound right and I don't particularly care to have you "not speak to me since". Make sense?


PS, the OP accused us of not being honest. I just layed a weeks worth of honesty on you folks and you act like it's a dead animal carcass. Puleeze.
Let me know when you really wanna talk turkey as opposed to mouthing platitudes you can't back up with experience.

FYI: I did not write the OP. You did in fact lay out your personal experiences and I can tell from experience with other friends on these sites who have laid out that very same honesty that they will eat you alive for your honesty. I, personally, do not want to be part of that and since I had no idea what you wanted me to say, I chose to skip any response at all. Nothing I can say will change the events that happened.

Do you want me to condemn your family? I don't know them.

Do you want me to condemn you? I don't know what you have gone through.

Do you want me to tell you that you made a good decision? It doesn't sound like you had a decision to make.

Do you want me to say, I am sorry? Sorry, doesn't cut it.

Do you want me to tell you that everything will be okay? It sounds like you have worked through the issue yourself.

Am I willing to discuss it if you so choose? Sure, but, until I know where you want to go with that, I'm not going to push your buttons in that realm. My being an asshole to you about it won't help either one of us.

Immie

I gotta love ya for that but trust me, NOBODY here has the power to ring ANY of my bells. I said earlier Im a grizzled veteran of some of the nastiest message boards, populated by some of the most excremental rat packs know to internet-dom and my claws are sharp. Also I have one thing they don't. A sense of humor.

I like you. You don't run. We will agree to disagree, okay?

 

[Immanuel]

I don't really think taking away a womans right's as declared by Roe vs Wade is a step forward. As for telling others what to do, don't be silly. I'm all about NOT doing that. But the law is in place. Why rescind it? And to who's benefit would that be if we did? Im for GIVING choices, NOT taking them away.
As for sex education, why is it we also want to hold back on that? Somebody (woof woof) said indoctrinate the kids with sexual thruths as we do with the importance of sports. I really like that idea. Take the mystery and bugaboo out of it and lay some facts on our kids instead of what I've found here today. 'Oh, we can't talk about that, we might hurt somebodies feelings' Trust me, the kids are probably wiser about it than any of us are. And for those of you that found the first part of my story disconcerting, God knows the second part would kill you so I'll spare you.

I'll ask you the same question I asked snjmom a couple hours ago: where have you seen me promote making abortion illegal? Where have I called for overturning Roe?

Also, I am a proponent of Sex Ed and yes, I am one of those evil men that believe we should teach abstinence... ALONG with sex education... alongside it not in place of.

You are falling into the liberal trap of putting words in people's mouths.

Did I say I found your story disconcerting? No, I said I don't want to be an asshole to you, so I would rather not discuss it with you. At least at a point when I have only just "met" you. I know nothing about you.

The last person that was honest on this site, flipped out several times when she became honest.

So sue me for trying to be sensitive to your feelings.

Immie

Now Immy, settle down. Im not trying to make an enemy of you. I would just rather speak from experience when I can and after all it was a long time ago. But it does give me an insight you may not have. If I sounded like I was getting rough with you, Im sorry. Candy Slice is also an attitude. You'll appreciate it someday when we are troll battling together and I show you what I can REALLY do when I get fired up!(wink)
How could honesty flip somebody out? I did my flipping out years ago. It's out of my system. We hope!!

Suffice it to say that I believe that her honesty was her way of working things out. I believe she is reading this thread so I will not put words in her mouth.

I would love to know more about your experience, but I am not about to be the one that instigates the furtherance of that discussion. You spoke your heart there and "confessed" some very personal things. If you want to discuss it, that is fine, but I will not pry. You bring out the parts of it that you want to discuss. We can go from there.

Going from there, let me say, it will be a cold day in hell before you will get me to say anything nice about Planned Parenthood. I do not advocate shutting them down as I realize that much of what they do is good for people, but, I also realize much of what they do is feeder industry to that other thing they do.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

If you don't mind, I would prefer not to comment on the rest of this post. Nothing I can say will sound right and I don't particularly care to have you "not speak to me since". Make sense?


PS, the OP accused us of not being honest. I just layed a weeks worth of honesty on you folks and you act like it's a dead animal carcass. Puleeze.
Let me know when you really wanna talk turkey as opposed to mouthing platitudes you can't back up with experience.

FYI: I did not write the OP. You did in fact lay out your personal experiences and I can tell from experience with other friends on these sites who have laid out that very same honesty that they will eat you alive for your honesty. I, personally, do not want to be part of that and since I had no idea what you wanted me to say, I chose to skip any response at all. Nothing I can say will change the events that happened.

Do you want me to condemn your family? I don't know them.

Do you want me to condemn you? I don't know what you have gone through.

Do you want me to tell you that you made a good decision? It doesn't sound like you had a decision to make.

Do you want me to say, I am sorry? Sorry, doesn't cut it.

Do you want me to tell you that everything will be okay? It sounds like you have worked through the issue yourself.

Am I willing to discuss it if you so choose? Sure, but, until I know where you want to go with that, I'm not going to push your buttons in that realm. My being an asshole to you about it won't help either one of us.

Immie

I gotta love ya for that but trust me, NOBODY here has the power to ring ANY of my bells. I said earlier Im a grizzled veteran of some of the nastiest message boards, populated by some of the most excremental rat packs know to internet-dom and my claws are sharp. Also I have one thing they don't. A sense of humor.

I like you. You don't run. We will agree to disagree, okay?

Agree to disagree? For now... by the time we're done you will be on my side.

I don't know what sites you have come from, but let me just warn ya... there are some vicious people on this site that will not be "loving" in their responses to your honesty. Of course, maybe (and I think it likely) you will be able to handle it.

Edit: got to run for an hour or so. If this conversation is still on-going. Catch ya later!

Immie

 

[CandySlice]

I'll ask you the same question I asked snjmom a couple hours ago: where have you seen me promote making abortion illegal? Where have I called for overturning Roe?

Also, I am a proponent of Sex Ed and yes, I am one of those evil men that believe we should teach abstinence... ALONG with sex education... alongside it not in place of.

You are falling into the liberal trap of putting words in people's mouths.

Did I say I found your story disconcerting? No, I said I don't want to be an asshole to you, so I would rather not discuss it with you. At least at a point when I have only just "met" you. I know nothing about you.

The last person that was honest on this site, flipped out several times when she became honest.

So sue me for trying to be sensitive to your feelings.

Immie

Now Immy, settle down. Im not trying to make an enemy of you. I would just rather speak from experience when I can and after all it was a long time ago. But it does give me an insight you may not have. If I sounded like I was getting rough with you, Im sorry. Candy Slice is also an attitude. You'll appreciate it someday when we are troll battling together and I show you what I can REALLY do when I get fired up!(wink)
How could honesty flip somebody out? I did my flipping out years ago. It's out of my system. We hope!!

Suffice it to say that I believe that her honesty was her way of working things out. I believe she is reading this thread so I will not put words in her mouth.

I would love to know more about your experience, but I am not about to be the one that instigates the furtherance of that discussion. You spoke your heart there and "confessed" some very personal things. If you want to discuss it, that is fine, but I will not pry. You bring out the parts of it that you want to discuss. We can go from there.

Going from there, let me say, it will be a cold day in hell before you will get me to say anything nice about Planned Parenthood. I do not advocate shutting them down as I realize that much of what they do is good for people, but, I also realize much of what they do is feeder industry to that other thing they do.

Immie

I certainly understand the need to put something down on paper. Just this AM I told someone it's the best way to lay the demons that I've found. There is something so assertive about laying it out in black and white, something so cathartic, until you've tried it you cannot imagine the good of it.
As for me, my demons were laid to rest long ago and what is left is a burning need to tell people it's okay to screw up and there are alternatives out there that do NOT bear a stigma except in the minds of those that would control you for their own gain.
Woman are fragile people , Immy, and it is easy to control them by battering their self esteem. It's a low cowardly thing to do but that doesn't seem to stop people from doing it everyday.
We all make our own choices and our own peace in this world and thank God there are still a few choices out there we can still make with honor and a modicum of dignity. Our Government is striving full time now to take those choices away, even as we speak, so it's more important than ever to take a stand where we can and fight the demons with all our hearts.

I leave you in peace tonight, appreciating a fight well fought and more fun to come.
Have a good one. Good night.
Lynne

 

[JBeukema]

It's the RIGHT to do so that I defend, not the actual act of terminating a fetus.

Is there a difference between supporting the right own slaves and supporting slavery?

 

[JBeukema]

I hope no woman ever has to again

Yet you're here siding with those who encourage such things?

 

[JBeukema]

And having a gun in my home is my insurance against home invasion. When I shoot the intruder, is it simply a "matter of convenience"?

So now the act of being created by you is the same as kicking in your oor or crawling through your window with clearly ill intent?

It's my body

Another human being is not your body. That is a simple biological fact.

Why do you people always have to lie to make your arguments?

moral rigidity.

So I can invade your home, tie you up, rape you, and kill you without regard to anyone's moral rigidity?

 

[JBeukema]

The actual rate is 1.2 million a year and I'm guessing they aren't saying it's "rare" yet. That is less than 3% of the population.

The very worst parent to have is one that doesn't want you. Why advocate for that kind of parenting?

Why advocate for that kind of parenting?

Because the alternative is advocating the killing of an innocent human being. I will not advocate that!

Do I think life would be grand for such a child? No, I don't, but at least it is life. Who knows what good will come to that child or from that child? I advocate adoption in such a case, but truthfully, I believe that most women in "crisis pregnancies" who go through with the pregnancy end up being great mothers to the child they considered killing. They're scared when they contemplate taking that life, but once the decision is made, the child is born and life goes on, they end up being fabulous moms.

No, they aren't saying it is rare yet, but they are not truly advocating anything that will actually reduce it either. It is nothing but a "feel good" slogan. Trying to win the hearts and minds of the public. In the same manner as declaring me to be "anti-woman" or "anti-choice" because I fight against the "choice" of killing an innocent human being. Or in the same manner as "my" side attempting to make your side seem like monsters by declaring you "pro-abortion".

Immie

My God, you must be the most the most naive person on earth. The shelters and orphanages in this country are packed full of abused and abandoned children whose parents had no other choice but to have them.
Also noticed you had nothing further to say regarding my question.

Better to kill the children than fix the system, eh?


Any excuse to kill a child...

 

[JBeukema]

No, they aren't saying it is rare yet, but they are not truly advocating anything that will actually reduce it either. It is nothing but a "feel good" slogan. Trying to win the hearts and minds of the public. In the same manner as declaring me to be "anti-woman" or "anti-choice" because I fight against the "choice" of killing an innocent human being. Or in the same manner as "my" side attempting to make your side seem like monsters by declaring you "pro-abortion".

Immie

Again, from my local Planned Parenting site.

Our Services
Planned Parenthood provides direct medical care and family planing services to more than 50,000 women, men and teens each year.


Our health services include:

emergency contraception
comprehensive birth control and contraceptive services
testing and treatment for STDs
hepatitis vaccinations
HIV testing and counseling
cancer screenings (breast and cervical, testicular and prostate)
HPV vaccinations
colposcopy and cryotherapy
vasectomies
annual GYN exams
Announcing Fall 2010 Insemination Services.

We also provide options counseling and abortion care through Reproductive Health Services.

None of those services reduce unwanted pregnancy other than abortion?

Seriously?

Did you even realize than in the event you are pregnant and choose to have the child that PP will hook you up with every social service known to man?

Want to end abortion? Force every male to make a sperm deposit at 15 and then mandatory vasectomy.

That would really reduce the number of abortions.

I know how to eliminate the overwhelming number of abortions without forced sterilization ala' the Nazis.

Keep your pants on and don't have unprotected sex if you're not prepared to be responsible for a child.

How telling that, in order to avoid personal responsibility, you'd rather have Der Staat forcefully sterilize everyone.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ4A2MflNL8]YouTube - Laibach - Der Staat[/ame]

 

[JBeukema]

All of those services promote sexual promiscuity and lead to unwanted pregnancies followed by abortions!

Really? Vasectomies and breast cancer screenings do that?

Come on now, Immie.

 

[JBeukema]

All of those services promote sexual promiscuity and lead to unwanted pregnancies followed by abortions!



Screw that shit! I would no sooner promote that women be forced to be sterilized? Why should I suffer because some women refuse not to spread their legs or some assholes can't keep their ding-a-lings in their pants?



I realize that is what you and they claim. In reality, they rush women into clinics not even wanting to allow them the time to "think it over" and end the question before the woman has the chance to come to her senses.Immie

Immy, again you are commenting on ground you've never trodded. I've been to planned parenthood before and do you know what was the first thing they told those girls? Abortion is NOT an acceptable form of birth control. The counseling was first rate and there were all manner of alternatives offered. Nibody was 'rushed' anywhere. You need to limit your comments to subjects you are familiar with. Just sayin.

They also deny that choosing to abort because the mother is not ready for a child is birth control. What would you call it if not "birth control"? Oh wait, I know... Family Planning!

Immie

I always thought 'family planning' sounded like what you do when you see a genetic counselor.

 

[Immanuel]

All of those services promote sexual promiscuity and lead to unwanted pregnancies followed by abortions!

Really? Vasectomies and breast cancer screenings do that?

Come on now, Immie.

Sorry, did I miss those when I was reviewing her post?

Hey, I'm not always right.

That does not change the fact that Planned Parenthood promotes sexual promiscuity which leads to more unwanted pregnancies and more abortions.

Immie

 

[CandySlice]

I hope no woman ever has to again

Yet you're here siding with those who encourage such things?

Ya know, I read your posts and saw your point of view. But I think we'd all benefit if you dailed down the drama about half a decible. Kay? Kay. You obviously don't have any idea what you are talking about and far be it from me to add to your humiliation. When you are ready to discuss instead of force opinions out of people like a verbal ram induction we'll get together asnd hash this thing out.
Kay? kay.

 

[xsited1]

All of those services promote sexual promiscuity and lead to unwanted pregnancies followed by abortions!

Really? Vasectomies and breast cancer screenings do that?

Come on now, Immie.

Sorry, did I miss those when I was reviewing her post?

Hey, I'm not always right.

That does not change the fact that Planned Parenthood promotes sexual promiscuity which leads to more unwanted pregnancies and more abortions.

Immie

Don't be dissin' Planned Parenthood. If the Democrats didn't support them, the black population would skyrocket. God Bless those Democrats.

 

[Contumacious]

Now hold on there a sec. Having an abortion is not an easy thing to do. It is no picnic, I guarantee you. I dont have to defend myself when it comes to my body. Wanna call me a murderer? Go ahead. Ive called myself much worse when I had it done many many MANY years ago. Its nobodies business why I had it done and I answer to nobody on why I did it.

Say what you will. Unless you are a woman....you have no clue.

Excellent.
glad to know that you are assertive and not a slave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

 

[Immanuel]

Really? Vasectomies and breast cancer screenings do that?

Come on now, Immie.

Sorry, did I miss those when I was reviewing her post?

Hey, I'm not always right.

That does not change the fact that Planned Parenthood promotes sexual promiscuity which leads to more unwanted pregnancies and more abortions.

Immie

Don't be dissin' Planned Parenthood. If the Democrats didn't support them, the black population would skyrocket. God Bless those Democrats.

I be dissin' 'em whenever I want and you can't stop me. Last I checked this was a free country. How long that last, I can't say, but for now, I can say what I want.

What scares me is the ability for them to track down my IP address.

Immie

 

[JBeukema]

Now hold on there a sec. Having an abortion is not an easy thing to do. It is no picnic, I guarantee you.

bullshit

Women having multiple abortions reaches record high - Times Online

 

[Grace]

I can't speak for others. I can only speak for myself. And I said it already.
You, JB, are a nutbar.

 

[JBeukema]

You just lied about me in another thread.

Since you decided to show again, let me repeat the questions you keep evading:
1)Why can't you people ever be honest? If what you advocate isn't evil, why can't you admit what it is you advocate?

2)Does my right to do as I wish with/to my body extend to rights which harm another or are rape and murder not cool with you?

3)If killing your baby was okay and killing you now is not, why? At what point did what fundamental aspect of the child's nature change that made killing it go from being an okay thing to a not-okay thing?